Hunting & Fishing Wake up people CRYING WOLF the Documentary

[CoCaDoRi]

Please send this to anyone you know who has or plans to...hell even aspires to "some day " want to hunt here in the west. If we don't do something there will be no more... for anyone.

19000 Elk down to 2400 in YNP. ( quoted from the documentary)

Each wolf individually needs...

to kill <span style="font-weight: bold">23-24 Elk</span> to sustain life.<span style="font-weight: bold">PER YEAR</span>!



http://cryingwolfmovie.com/

 

[skinney_7]

Re: Wake up people

start it up.

 

[beretta989]

Re: Wake up people

Wolfs and cats need to go or at least be managed better.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

I hope<span style="font-weight: bold"> WE</span> continually re-post this week after week.

I sure would like to take my son hunting in the future.

 

[Silver_Bullet_00]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please send this to anyone you know who has or plans to...hell even aspires to "some day " want to hunt here in the west. If we don't do something there will be no more... for anyone.

19000 Elk down to 2400 in YNP.

Each wolf individually needs...

to kill <span style="font-weight: bold">23-24 Elk</span> to sustain life.<span style="font-weight: bold">PER YEAR</span>!



http://cryingwolfmovie.com/ </div></div>

I am afraid that the whitetail deer population in the east could see a decline due to the coyote population exploding. For the last 20 years we probably have had to many deer, but in the last 5 years or so, I have never seen so many coyotes. I myself (where I hunt) had never even seen a coyote in NC until 2004, now they are everywhere! We have year round hunting and unlimited bag limits, so we need hunters to hunt them!

I hope they get the wolf population under control, I really want to go to the west to hunt elk.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

Your coyotes you see arn't necessarily there from those coyotes populating within themselves. Genetically they have a code that says they are from out this way... jus sayin'

 

[beretta989]

Re: Wake up people

I've talked to our state trapper and when he starts saying that hes killed 120+ coyotes a day in the plane it makes you wonder how many are out there.

 

[Silver_Bullet_00]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your coyotes you see arn't necessarily there from those coyotes populating within themselves. Genetically they have a code that says they are from out this way... jus sayin' </div></div>



From what I have read, they are here because of natural expansion from population growth from the west and north. I do know that a local hunting club actually introduced some coyotes in NC back in the 1990's to help control deer population(who knows what they where thinking.)

 

[1911fan]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I have never seen so many coyotes.</div></div>

You're shooting them when you see them, right?

Wolves have been a HUGE impact on deer & elk out here. A guide in Montana told my friend to stop bugling, as it only calls in wolves now. The elk have learned to be discrete.
A few of us went up to the NE corner of Washington for an early season any-elk archery hunt, and couldn't find any elk. Lots of wolf tracks though. One of our group walked up on several wolves feeding on a deer. They were unaware of him, and he thought about shooting a few, but the reload speed on his bow deterred him. Now, if he'd had an AR15, different story.
If you soak sponges in grease from restaurants, or treat fresh horse crap with green antifreeze and spread them around, it'll knock the population down. Just sayin'.



1911fan

 

[beretta989]

Re: Wake up people

So is there a season or tags on wolfs?

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your coyotes you see arn't necessarily there from those coyotes populating within themselves. Genetically they have a code that says they are from out this way... jus sayin' </div></div>



From what I have read, they are here because of natural expansion from population growth from the west and north. I do know that a local hunting club actually introduced some coyotes in NC back in the 1990's to help control deer population(who knows what they where thinking.)
</div></div>

Think in terms of they are getting help in traveling. From here to there. By motorized venues.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta989</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So is there a season or tags on wolfs? </div></div>

yes except for Wyo. But if you watch the video. You'll soon realize this isn't nearly enough.

 

[beretta989]

Re: Wake up people

Just finished it....The Ranchers seem to be fighting a losing battle that no one wants to hear.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

Not just the ranchers...

But you are right no one wants to hear the truth. Just like the 95%-5% comment in the documentary. 5% are dealing with the problems 95% voted for.
This goes way deeper than the ranchers. they were just the first obviously affected. IT now will affect every sportsman and then every person.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

Here's a problem too.

This is the quotas for MT the 2 units that are closest to the park..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WMU 2, a patch of southwestern Montana that stretches from Missoula south through the Bitterroot and Upper Big Hole valleys, the wolf harvest quota is 22.
WMU 3, which extends across the southern tier of Montana from Dillon east to the Montana border, the wolf harvest quota is 12.</div></div>

34 wolves.

There will be that many pups produced this year from a pack or 2.

Give the populations of wolves are into the 1500+ amount this 34 for Montana is like a drop in the bucket...

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

Taken from the Smithsonian.com website.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/tag/montana/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">March 11, 2009
Wolves to Lose Protection in Idaho and Montana
Last month, in our February issue’s “Wolves and the Balance of Nature in the Rockies”, Frank Clifford, told the story of the reintroduction of the gray wolf to the Rockies. Since the first wolves were reintroduced in Yellowstone National Park in 1995, the population has grown to 1,500 or more:</div></div>

This was back in '09 it is now almost 3 years later and the numbers then were estimated at 1500.... so that means there are probably a good deal more than 1500.

1500 X 23 = 34,500 Elk could possibly be killed per year.

Can people not see the looming disaster... The future for our children afield and hunting big game in the west is almost hopeless. The tree huggers have respectfully kicked the sportsman ass and handed it to them on this issue. Funny thing our tax dollars probably funded it.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

http://saveelk.com/wolf_085.htm

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

Please support these people...

http://www.fotnyeh.org/

 

[farmerted]

Re: Wake up people

Predator and prey in nature balance each other out. Did the wolves and elk not coexist for a little bit before we got here?

 

[KYS]

Re: Wake up people

Ive been shooting coyotes left and right this year. 5 or 6 a week, and now that we are slowing down at work for the year I am going to hunt more and more. I killed two within a few minutes of each other propped up on the hood of my truck. They dont care about human presence nor do they care about your vehicles passing them.

A 175gr AMAX makes you rethink life when it punches your lungs are heart!

Thin them out and let the deer population recover.

 

[LWILLIAMS]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Predator and prey in nature balance each other out. Did the wolves and elk not coexist for a little bit before we got here? </div></div>
The wolves that were re- introduced are a totally different and larger sub species than what previously lived in the lower 48. This new breed is bigger and badder and kill more often. It is like if mule deer disappear from the lower 48 and the tree huggers decide that whitetail deer are close enough and introduce them to the old mule deer habitat. They are both deer so they must be the same. I live here and see what is happening and given the chance I will do what I can. Tired of the do gooders telling us what is best for us out here. To all those who think the wolves were a good idea, your a fucking idiot. Let's put them in your backyard.

 

[beretta989]

Re: Wake up people

[/quote] To all those who think the wolves were a good idea, your a fucking idiot. Let's put them in your backyard. [/quote] Well put...

 

[1911fan]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Predator and prey in nature balance each other out.</div></div>

No. In a natural state, the predator population increase lags behind the prey increase, until at some point predation increases enough to significantly reduce the amount of prey available. As prey populations decline, so do predator populations. It's not a balance, it's a perpetual seesaw.
That's in a natural state. Hem predator and prey in confined areas due to human encroachment on historical range, and proximity increases predation until both populations crash. Humans have had a profound effect on 'free' wildlife.
In addition, the wolves of the past were smaller than the wolves being introduced, as noted above. We've introduced a superpredator into a population that has no historic interaction with such a beast. Smaller wolves can take less elk, and need fewer to survive.
Wolves also have a demonstrated prey/flight response: This is why, when you read about wolf predation on domestic animals, it's often many at once. They get into a sheep pen and kill them all. If it runs, it dies. Not good for wildlife, either, though less documented for obvious reasons.
Fact: Wolves, under the Endangered Species Act (ESA), had a specific population level as a goal. When that level was reached, wolves were to be delisted. Fact: Every time a state attempts to manage them as wildlife, or get them taken off the ESA species list, treehuggers take the state to court to stop it.
Summary: We've introduced an apex predator into a population insufficient to feed it, and unused to dealing with it. We've let a small, well-funded minority pervert wildlife management into a political fundraising game. Is it any wonder that sportsmen, who pay the brunt of wildlife management through license fees and Pittman-Roberts and Wallop Breaux taxes, are unhappy that generations of work to restore ungulate populations are being destroyed in their lifetimes?
I think wolf numbers should be reduced to either A) Their originally specified ESA minimums, or B) Whatever state and local biologists feel is appropriate. My target population level would be none.

Great first post on a shooting forum, BTW.


1911fan

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Wake up people

The so called 'animal lovers' IMO are about the cruelest narcassistic pricks there are. They don't want the human population controlling nor consuming wild game. They think hunting is inhumane and cruel, they think trapping etc is likewise. It apparently isn't correct, proper or Nature's plan/intent to consume meat gathered 99% of the time as humane and pain free as can be done but is proper for a pack of wolves or coyotes to hamstring an animal and start consuming it while it is still breathing and very much alive, or rip it guts out and eat it literally to death.

Some years ago there was mention(can't remember if it actually happened) of harvesting some of the surplus of buffalo in Yellowstone when they ventured outside the borders because of a shortage of forage inside the park. Them self absorbed pricks thought it inhumane and raised hell that they should just let them either starve or be taken by predators.

They don't want surplus populations of predators/furbearers to be trapped/snared/hunted because it is "cruel" etc. How the hell can anyone with a functioning IQ rationalize in their mind that starvation from over populations may take months and that "Mother Nature's" way is more humane than trapping/hunting etc??? How many have seen a really really mangy coyote up close and see how gruesome and disgusting of a disease it is? How can anyone make any attempt to justify/claim that a death from mange, starvation etc is acceptable????

I just cannot grasp their logic that 'they' have the best interest of the animal in mind when they flap their gums?? In reality only some sick son of a bitch that enjoyed watching some living thing suffer the worst possible death would support starvation, mange etc. I am not a big supporter of trapping but did some growing up on a farm/ranch. All I can stress from collecting a fox, coon etc in a trap for 12hrs or so to seeing/shooting dozens and dozens of mangy coyotes over the years is that if I had a choice between being held in a leg hold trap for 12-24hrs and then humanely killed or starvation or mange around here during the winter that didn't kill me for several months that the choice would be real easy!!!

Guess I should have applied myself more thoroughly during my education phase of life because I just 'don't get it' apparently!!

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Predator and prey in nature balance each other out.</div></div>

No. In a natural state, the predator population increase lags behind the prey increase, until at some point predation increases enough to significantly reduce the amount of prey available. As prey populations decline, so do predator populations. It's not a balance, it's a perpetual seesaw.
That's in a natural state. Hem predator and prey in confined areas due to human encroachment on historical range, and proximity increases predation until both populations crash. Humans have had a profound effect on 'free' wildlife.
In addition, the wolves of the past were smaller than the wolves being introduced, as noted above. We've introduced a superpredator into a population that has no historic interaction with such a beast. Smaller wolves can take less elk, and need fewer to survive.
Wolves also have a demonstrated prey/flight response: This is why, when you read about wolf predation on domestic animals, it's often many at once. They get into a sheep pen and kill them all. If it runs, it dies. Not good for wildlife, either, though less documented for obvious reasons.
Fact: Wolves, under the Endangered Species Act (ESA), had a specific population level as a goal. When that level was reached, wolves were to be delisted. Fact: Every time a state attempts to manage them as wildlife, or get them taken off the ESA species list, treehuggers take the state to court to stop it.
Summary: We've introduced an apex predator into a population insufficient to feed it, and unused to dealing with it. We've let a small, well-funded minority pervert wildlife management into a political fundraising game. Is it any wonder that sportsmen, who pay the brunt of wildlife management through license fees and Pittman-Roberts and Wallop Breaux taxes, are unhappy that generations of work to restore ungulate populations are being destroyed in their lifetimes?
I think wolf numbers should be reduced to either A) Their originally specified ESA minimums, or B) Whatever state and local biologists feel is appropriate. My target population level would be none.

Great first post on a shooting forum, BTW.


1911fan </div></div>

Outfreakingstanding! That is the educated and professional response I wanted to give the awe inspiring first post from the "farmer"!!!

Thank you!

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWILLIAMS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Predator and prey in nature balance each other out. Did the wolves and elk not coexist for a little bit before we got here? </div></div>
The wolves that were re- introduced are a totally different and larger sub species than what previously lived in the lower 48. This new breed is bigger and badder and kill more often. It is like if mule deer disappear from the lower 48 and the tree huggers decide that whitetail deer are close enough and introduce them to the old mule deer habitat. They are both deer so they must be the same. I live here and see what is happening and given the chance I will do what I can. Tired of the do gooders telling us what is best for us out here. To all those who think the wolves were a good idea, your a fucking idiot. Let's put them in your backyard. </div></div>


It is the 95%-5% they mentioned in the video. 95% of the people voted for what 5% have to live with.
The pencil pushing A-holes in their private cottages while sipping their french wines and eating their french cheeses in front of a fire that their butler started while having their e-mail read to them by their maid are so proud of themselves and feel so very important in saving the earth that they completely overlooked the hard working ranchers, outfitters and business' that are closing their doors because of this. People are loosing generational livelihoods forever. Future generations are doomed.

We can't do enough fast enough at this point. I spent all day on the phone yesterday talking to people about how others can help this. While I was talking I was e-mailing others. What we need is everyone who reads posts like this is, for them to be passionate and turn that passion into action and help spread the word. The young man who made this video is short on cash and needs help spreading the word.

Please, please do what you can.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

This is the facebook link. I know many of you are on FB I see you on the Snipershide FB page.

Got to the Crying wolf FB page and share please.


http://www.facebook.com/CryingWolfDoc?sk=wall&filter=1

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Wake up people

I am convinced that the sole reason for the introduction of wolves was to eliminate hunting.

Think about it, you can't eliminate hunting by laws banning it. It just wont fly. Too many congressman/senators come from hunting states. Too many votes at stake.

So (much like going after ammo because you can't elimnate guns) you go after the target of hunters. Eleminate the game (or greatly reduce them) then you elimnate hunting.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am convinced that the sole reason for the introduction of wolves was to eliminate hunting.

Think about it, you can't eliminate hunting by laws banning it. It just wont fly. Too many congressman/senators come from hunting states. Too many votes at stake.

So (much like going after ammo because you can't elimnate guns) you go after the target of hunters. Eleminate the game (or greatly reduce them) then you elimnate hunting.

</div></div>

I agree!

 

[Silver_Bullet_00]

Re: Wake up people

They have been working on reintroducing the Red-wolf back in North Carolina. Right now they have about 200 in captivity for breeding and an estimated 100 in the wild in North Carolina. This is the world's only wild population of red wolves. I hope this doesn't become a problem like you guys in the west have. So far the population is in check (they think). Here is the government link to the program.
http://www.fws.gov/redwolf/

I talked with some hunters from the north part of the state a while back, and they seem to have concerns that some red wolf have bred with the non native coyotes. They claim to be seeing rather large wolf looking coyotes.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I talked with some hunters from the north part of the state a while back, and they seem to have concerns that some red wolf have bred with the non native coyotes. They claim to be seeing rather large wolf looking coyotes. </div></div>

I went by the Virginia Living Museum in Newport News. I had never been there and wanted to see what the place was about. I came across a Red Wolf enclosure there, and then started reading all the little signs all over the place, and one of them announced a re-introduction program that basically sounded the same as the one going on out west.

I wasn't that thrilled. Nice looking wolves and a great little zoo, but Jesus Tapdancing Christ! I think I'll make a government program that introduces Polar Bears to Washington D.C., then we'll see how long all these programs last.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

I had a one year absence from the west. I was spent in NC. I heard about this red wolf thing. It sounded all to familiar. But take another read of Kraig's post above. Then think about how many hunters there are in NC and how many have long long roots of hunting heritage there. Now think about how many deer will quickly vanish if you have these red wolves. I bet if one were to dig deep enough the same core personnel are behind your red wolf thing as were behind the YNP wolf thing.

 

[Silver_Bullet_00]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a one year absence from the west. I was spent in NC. I heard about this red wolf thing. It sounded all to familiar. But take another read of Kraig's post above. Then think about how many hunters there are in NC and how many have long long roots of hunting heritage there. Now think about how many deer will quickly vanish if you have these red wolves. I bet if one were to dig deep enough the same core personnel are behind your red wolf thing as were behind the YNP wolf thing. </div></div>

Probably are one in the same.

Our woods are so thick on the east coast of NC due to lack of management. There is no way to get a wildlife count. My father told me back in the 50's and 60's you could walk through the woods with almost no problem. He said they use to let them burn off every few years or so, and that helped with big wildfires from spreading because it kept the underbrush thinned out. Now you can barely get 5 feet into them without having to cut a path. Our estimated deer population count comes from harvest reports, from the hunters. 1 female coyote or wolf has 4-8 pups every spring, they live 8 years average, so I bet there are more than what they are saying.

Also the east coast is more densely populated. There is bound to be contact with humans and children.

 

[Remoah]

Re: Wake up people

You've got it bad there, we've got it worse here down under.

Deer, a wholly introduced species, are about to become protected. As are Ducks, which whilst not introduced, are in some of the highest numbers ever seen and recorded.

Animals get shot in the woods, often with rifles easily twice as powerful as needed, which ensures a clean and instant kill. Often the prey is completley unaware of the hunter, and if they are, they do not know of their impending demise. To them, it's another day in the woods/fields, munching on grass or whatever. Doubtful they would ever hear the Bang.
Compare that to being prodded and electrocuted, onto a packed truck full of other beasts, driven hundreds of miles in sweltering heat or howling rain, placed into a crammed holding pen, and then dragged, frightened to death, through a maze of metal, concrete and machinery, only to be immobilised whilst a man places a giant metal gun to your head and fires, killing you instantly only 9 times out of 10.

And don't even get me started on Halal butchering practices...

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

Gardiner MT is in pretty serious trouble.

Please do all you can.

I lived in Northern CO. ( Fort Collins ) The was talk of sightings northwest of there a bit.

 

[ugsly]

Re: Wake up people

When does DFW start selling tree huger tags? I believe the amount of revenue would be astounding. Would be a place to start.

Kc

 

[beretta989]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugsly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When does DFW start selling tree huger tags? I believe the amount of revenue would be astounding. Would be a place to start.

Kc </div></div>

I'd buy afew....

 

[Rthur]

Re: Wake up people

As usual someone from east bongo squeegee that doesn't know dick about the local ecosystem, comes up with a idea to reintroduce a predator into a system that is totally different than it was 100 years ago. These people can't seem to understand what a predator is, or does. They are doing the same in western New Mexico with the mexican wolf. The gila will pay the price.

 

[farmerted]

Re: Wake up people CRYING WOLF the Documentary

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2002/wolvesvselk.htm

SDWhirlwind - http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/animal_dis_spec/cattle/downloads/cattle-bison.pdf

Ranchers/farmers are powerful lobbyists as well. Elk do not spread brucellosis as easily as bison. Otherwise, any that ventured out of YNP would be slaughtered just as the bison are.

 

[OKbow87]

Re: Wake up people CRYING WOLF the Documentary

Farmer... Your article is from 10 years ago. In that ten years the population of the yellowstone elk herd has dropped by 10,000 animals to 4,500. Why don't you bring some more up to date research to the table.

On a serious note, I decided to read some articles from the pro wolf side. One that I read was gloating the fact that the greatly reduced herd numbers of elk and the fear the elk have caused by the INTRODUCED wolves has allowed more aspen trees to reach maturity inside the park. Seriously? People aren't relying on the well being of their family because of the increase of aspen trees reaching maturity inside yellowstone park. Ranchers that are losing substantial numbers of their calves, outfitters who have no animals for their clients to hunt, and store owners that rely on those hunters coming to their town and spending money in their establishments are the ones who's lively hoods are being affected by the INTRODUCTION of wolves to yellowstone park.

You may notice the use of introduced in my post, not re introduced, since even the original gov't researchers put in their report that yellowstone park was not wolf habitat and there were no established wolf packs in the park before.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am convinced that the sole reason for the introduction of wolves was to eliminate hunting.

Think about it, you can't eliminate hunting by laws banning it. It just wont fly. Too many congressman/senators come from hunting states. Too many votes at stake.

So (much like going after ammo because you can't elimnate guns) you go after the target of hunters. Eleminate the game (or greatly reduce them) then you elimnate hunting.

</div></div>

Then why delist wolves in every state but WY?

I'm absolutely with you that wolves need to be managed just like every other game, but the conspiracy theories seem farfetched to me. It's more likely a bunch of college educated bureaucrats who know nothing of living anywhere but in the suburbs or cities making decisions concerning things about which they know nothing.

Never ascribe malice when incompetency is an option.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am convinced that the sole reason for the introduction of wolves was to eliminate hunting.

Think about it, you can't eliminate hunting by laws banning it. It just wont fly. Too many congressman/senators come from hunting states. Too many votes at stake.

So (much like going after ammo because you can't elimnate guns) you go after the target of hunters. Eleminate the game (or greatly reduce them) then you elimnate hunting.

</div></div>

Then why delist wolves in every state but WY?

I'm absolutely with you that wolves need to be managed just like every other game, but the conspiracy theories seem farfetched to me. It's more likely a bunch of college educated bureaucrats who know nothing of living anywhere but in the suburbs or cities making decisions concerning things about which they know nothing.

Never ascribe malice when incompetency is an option. </div></div>

Wyo is tied up in red tape from theses same college educated bureaucrats from what I understand.

It is a conspiracy theory. Except is is loosing the "theory" part and becoming more and more factual. They just didn't plan on people continually bringing it to light.
You are right on about the 95% of the people who were behind this being the ones who live is their suburbs and city townhouses. They are making 5% deal with the problem they've created.

Did you watch the documentary?

 

[Bill Larson]

Re: Wake up people CRYING WOLF the Documentary

The West is not the only area suffering from the DNR`s import/protect a wolf/bear/cougar programs.I am centrally located and filmilar with IA.,MN,Wi. and IL.... ALL are suffering from the wolf/cougar/bear rebound.
When we had none of the 3....our whitetail population flourished....
bill larson

 

[Jim See]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Predator and prey in nature balance each other out. Did the wolves and elk not coexist for a little bit before we got here? </div></div>


Heres the skinny on the whole predator thing.

At this very moment the predator prey relationship has never been more out-of-whack, than at any other time in the recordable history of North American Man.

Think about this. The top predators ALWAYS compete for the same food source. So much so that they will go out of there way to kill competing preditors of their own or other species at any available opportunity. More so when food becomes scarce. Man as a top predator has taken this roll and run with it since the early dawn of the human race.


What has changed this in recent history??????

Easy the endagered species act.

Man has been THEE top predator and now we have been restricted from that position.

The diference is Man has always had a certain amount of self control and self preservation, knowing that for long term sustainability we need to conserve the resource. Hunting/gathering evolved into farming both plant and livestock. We learned to manage the resource for long term sustainability.

Top animal predators have NO understanding or comprehension of this and will destroy the prey base and themselves if allowed to. And that is EXACTLY what the ESA and the tree hugging hippies of this country are allowing them to do.

What pisses me off the most is; 99% of sportsmen are a bunch of pussies.

Some woman with harry legs and armpits, can climb a damn tree, and live in it for 6 months to save some stupid owl, and a properly bred deer hunter can't grow the balls to pull the trigger on a hybreed, imported, invasive canine.

For Heaven sake lets take back the position of top predator.
__________________
Jim See

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people CRYING WOLF the Documentary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What pisses me off the most is; 99% of sportsmen are a bunch of pussies.</div></div>

I'll tip my hat to that for a moment... and hope someone(s) here change(s) my mind.

How any have read this post and done not a freaking thing? Maybe just read it and felt bad or thought, "man that really sucks".

The point is we need help and a lot of it from all who care.

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: Wake up people

Save an Elk...fill a Wolf tag.

 

[Hoofy]

Re: Wake up people

Now being sighted as far South as Canon City.

I wonder if these have migrated or merely "introduced"
from a wolf sanctuary.

 

[hunter530]

Re: Wake up people CRYING WOLF the Documentary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The West is not the only area suffering from the DNR`s import/protect a wolf/bear/cougar programs.I am centrally located and filmilar with IA.,MN,Wi. and IL.... ALL are suffering from the wolf/cougar/bear rebound.
When we had none of the 3....our whitetail population flourished....
bill larson </div></div>

Don't forget the UP of Michigan. We've got the fricking wolves dumped here and they are destroying the moose/deer population.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Wake up people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hoof</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now being sighted as far South as Canon City.

I wonder if these have migrated or merely "introduced"
from a wolf sanctuary. </div></div>

If they made it to Nebraska from YNP.. they surly can make it to Canyon City.

 

[jasonahull]

Re: Wake up people

Makes you want to shoot some wolves. After all they are the spawn of SATAN!!

(them and snakes)