Where Do We Go From Here?

RAVAGE88

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    Very cool! I always liked Russell's no chrome style, I just heard so much about the hidden cabling causing issues during riding.

    Nice build!
    Russell is a good Dude and certainly has a unique style. I never had issues with the way I did the internal wiring other than a chafe of the starter button signal wire that routed through the gear shift handle. I made my shift knob larger than the one Russell used and had hidden buttons on the frame side for various functions. I had redundancy built in for certain things, so when the starter signal wire to the controller chafed, I shut the input off to the controller and activated the starter through a different channel on the controller. Easy fix at the camp site that night. I designed and made the controller and Russell used it on the FXR build that was on the Biker Build Off TV Show. I went to his shop in Hollywood and installed the system.

    MB
     
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    J_D

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    Russel is a good Dude and certainly has a unique style. I never had issues with the way I did the internal wiring other than a chafe of the starter button signal wire that routed through the gear shift handle. I made my shift knob larger than the one Russell used and had hidden buttons on the frame side for various functions. I had redundancy built in for certain things, so when the starter signal wire to the controller chafed, I shut the input off to the controller and activated the starter through a different channel on the controller. Easy fix at the camp site that night. I designed and made the controller and Russell used it on the FXR build that was on the Biker Build Off TV Show. I went to his shop in Hollywood and installed the system.

    MB
    That's pretty awesome. It was great early on watching the builds, until it became about the drama, and the cake decorating OC Choppers took over for the uninformed.
     
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    RAVAGE88

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    That's pretty awesome. It was great early on watching the builds, until it became about the drama, and the cake decorating OC Choppers took over for the uninformed.
    Yep, it became pretty hokey after a short while. I stopped doing custom bike parts for others and stuck to just building my own stuff.

    MB
     

    flatland1

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    JG26_Irish - I love the looks of a good old 52 with a Unertl or Super Targetspot. I was offered a 52C w/Super Targetspot in really nice condition back in '95, and bought it. Had just gotten married, got into a little bit of financial bind, and wound up selling it to a friend from another club - still regret that very much. So when I saw a decent 52D in a Doan Trevor H&H prone stock listed online a little over a year ago, I made the guy an offer, and wound up getting it. I don't shoot irons anymore, so started looking for a nice period scope, and wound up buying a Unertl 16x target model. I think it's the perfect scope to go with this classic American smallbore rifle. It shoots Eley Match better than any of the Lapua or SK I've tried in it.

    Just out of curiosity, I pulled the bbl'd action out of a CMP 52D that I've owned since 2005 and put it into the Doan H&H claro stock, and it shot considerably better than the CMP 52D bbl'd action that was in it to begin with. So I'm thinking that I should swap the Unertl over onto this other bbl'd action, and put the Weaver T24 on the Viani mount from that rifle over onto the bbl'd action that came in this stock...
     

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    flatland1

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    Mike,
    I bought a wrecked 1971 Sportster XLCH in '72. The front end was totaled, and H-D was on strike, so I went down to Wichita to look for something that would let me get it up & running. I wound up with a God-awful looking 10" over springer, with ugly oversized rockers, a narrow dinky 17" front wheel, and pull-back handlebars - thank goodness I don't have any photos of that mess, but picture in your mind something like that with the original fiberglas seat/rear fender on it. It was ok out on pavement, but riding it on any of our sandy county roads was nerve wracking, with the combination of the dinky front tire & pull-back handlebars. After a summer of riding/herding that thing around, I sold the springer, and bought a 10" over girder front end, which was a very bad move, as the girder's geometry reduced trail and made it unstable - which I found out on my 1st ride, as it went into a high speed wobble, and went down with me. After the road rash had healed, I bought what I should've gone with in the first place - a set of Ceriani road racing forks and a 21" front wheel. In fact, I went with aluminum hubs & rims front & rear, with custom disc brakes, and got rid of the fugly AMF-inspired fiberglas seat/fender unit, replacing it with a cobra-style seat. That got the weight down to 425lbs, and I enjoyed the ride a whole lot more than before.

    After a couple of my closest riding buddies moved out of state, I finally sold the Sportster in 1987 to Dusty Dowd, a crop dusting pilot friend who has owned bunches of both flying & basket case warbirds, including an Allison-powered Mustang, Sea Furys, Yaks, a Beech 18, and God-knows what else. While taking an introduction to aerobatics flight in a Super Decathalon out at the Art Scholl School of Aerobatics at Rialto, Ca. with Chuck Wentworth, I mentioned that I was from western Kansas, and he immediately said "Then you must know Dusty Dowd!" He told me that Dusty had been flying beside him during a heat at the races at Reno a few years before when the wooden prop on Chuck's Cassutt fractured (they run O-200 Continentals at 3000+RPM while racing), and the extreme un-balanced engine shook itself right out of the motor mount before he could shut it down. If it hadn't been for a rule requiring a very stout engine-retaining cable harness, the engine would've departed the Cassutt, and it's very likely that he'd have died in the resulting loss of control crash. I flew with Chuck in 1982, and haven't seen or talked with him since. But last winter, Dusty was showing a video of himself in his Yak while racing at Reno, while he gave a presentation during an IMC meeting at a local airport. After watching the racing video, I asked him if he remembered Chuck. His eyes lit up and he got pretty animated, telling me about flying right there next to Chuck's Cassutt when the prop fractured. Aviation - it's a small community, and this is far from the only time I've met pilots who knew other pilots that I knew, even when I'm a thousand miles from home...
     
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    JG26_Irish

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    . Aviation - it's a small community, and this is far from the only time I've met pilots who knew other pilots that I knew, even when I'm a thousand miles from home...
    Just to further derail this thread, lol. My next door neighbor is an old pilot and HD rider who built EA aircraft in the day. He built several RV8’s. While at Oshkosh one year he met and befriended Victor Belenko the Russian MiG 25 pilot who defected in the 1970’s. Belenko had became an American citizen and was developing a three bladed variable pitch prop that would work on the RV8 and other small light weight aircraft. Leo ended up testing the original prototypes and was very impressed with the performance. When he sold his lastRV8 it still had a Belenko prop.

    Now back on topic. How can we apply captured alien technology to the shooting sports? 🥴
     

    RAVAGE88

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    Just to further derail this thread, lol. My next door neighbor is an old pilot and HD rider who built EA aircraft in the day. He built several RV8’s. While at Oshkosh one year he met and befriended Victor Belenko the Russian MiG 25 pilot who defected in the 1970’s. Belenko had became an American citizen and was developing a three bladed variable pitch prop that would work on the RV8 and other small light weight aircraft. Leo ended up testing the original prototypes and was very impressed with the performance. When he sold his lastRV8 it still had a Belenko prop.

    Now back on topic. How can we apply captured alien technology to the shooting sports? 🥴
    No sir, it's not possible to derail this thread. I never intended for it to follow any specific or typical Internet forum decorum, but instead, it's more of a "fellowship" thread. It's incredibly apparent to me that there are many enjoying what they're reading here because of the PMs I'm receiving telling me so. Of course we'll keep it within reason, but we're learning a lot about commonalities, respect, etc., and that feeds the purpose of the thread title.

    Thanks Dudes,
    MB
     

    BillOH

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    I know rock creek always used to cryo treat their barrels.
    I used to get Cryogenic treated springs for my S&W revolvers from Vic Pickett. I could get a full 1# lighter trigger pull with them compared to other springs. There's something there to look at.
     

    flatland1

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    Krieger had (still has?) their own cryro treatment equipment in their barrel-making facility. I believe they were double-treating - before machining & after finishing.
     
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    brianf

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    Krieger had (still has?) their own cryro treatment equipment in their barrel-making facility. I believe they were double-treating - before machining & after finishing.
    ive been intrigued about the cryo craze from day one.

    if you really look at the data, the juice isnt worth the squeeze thats why most processes have removed it

    they still use cryo not for durability but for dimensional changes when fitting certain tight fitting parts

    certain car manufacturers have the valve seats "frozen" so then expand and lick themselves into the cylinder head
     

    Quarter Horse

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    CZ's whole 600 series seems like a complete bust. The loss of the 527 actioned small centerfires has a lot of varminters whining.

    If Gunbroker is an indicator, current pricing is stupid.
     
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    RAVAGE88

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    Krieger had (still has?) their own cryro treatment equipment in their barrel-making facility. I believe they were double-treating - before machining & after finishing.
    The cryo treatment definitely makes a difference. Aside from preferring Krieger because of it, I used a facility in Arizona back in the day to cryo a number of different parts as it made a huge difference in machinability.

    MB
     

    ma smith

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    OP, do you have any interest in doing a "scaled-down" centrefire along the lines of Sako L461 Vixen?

    In particular something scaled to run .223 Rem, 6PPC, 6BR ... ?

    ...would be a cool little gun cool gun niche but upscale market.

    (Apologies if this is a crazy idea 🤠)
     
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    RAVAGE88

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    OP, do you have any interest in doing a "scaled-down" centrefire along the lines of Sako L461 Vixen?

    In particular something scaled to run .223 Rem, 6PPC, 6BR ... ?

    ...would be a cool little gun cool gun niche but upscale market.

    (Apologies if this is a crazy idea 🤠)
    Yessir, I'm doing one. I've had the bolt designed for a while (as in a few years) and it won't take long to design the receiver around it.

    MB
     
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    littlepod

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    The cryo treatment definitely makes a difference. Aside from preferring Krieger because of it, I used a facility in Arizona back in the day to cryo a number of different parts as it made a huge difference in machinability.

    MB

    What process does Bartlein use? Given the long relationship Vudoo has had with Bartlein I assume they also do some good stuff with barrels.
     

    carbonbased

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    OP, do you have any interest in doing a "scaled-down" centrefire along the lines of Sako L461 Vixen?

    In particular something scaled to run .223 Rem, 6PPC, 6BR ... ?

    ...would be a cool little gun cool gun niche but upscale market.

    (Apologies if this is a crazy idea 🤠)
    Or 17 Fireball, 17 Hornet, 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball, etc? Mini-actions are cool.

    The beloved (& recently decreased) CZ 527 needs to be avenged lol
     

    flatland1

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    I had a local dealer order in a Sako L461 Sako Vixen in 223 back in 1971 - it was the only bolt rifle I could find in that chambering back then, and I've never regretted getting that rifle, even though it's never been quite as accurate as some of the other 223 bolt rifles I've owned more recently. It's just such a classy little rifle - so perfectly scaled to the 222/223 family of cartridges. I'd always wished the 6PPC repeaters that Sako made for a few years were more common - and not so pricey - because I wanted to build a few custom rifles on the Vixen & A model actions. So when Howa brought out their Mini action in 6.5 Grendel, I jumped at the chance to get one, just for the action to use in a 6 RAT build. While the Howas don't hold a candle to the Sako when it comes to finish & smoothness, they're stout little actions, and since there are a few companies making aluminum DBMs for them, they work pretty well for my purposes. I still own the little Sako Vixen in 223, but when it came time to build a light & petite rifle in 223AI, I just grabbed a Howa Mini bbl'd action in 223, and re-barreled it with a Krieger 1-8tw in their #4 sporter contour, finished it at 23", and put the bbl'd action into a B&C Sporter stock. It's a fine rifle, and shoots great...but you know I'd still like to be able to buy Sako Vixen actions and put the finished rifles in nice grade walnut stocks... Maybe Mike will come up with an action that will knock your socks off for this sort of use - if he does, I'll be waiting, cash in hand, to place an order for one.
     
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    iceng

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    Hah ! Im late to this party. Referring back a few pages, about fast twists. I currently shoot a 9t, and am helping a dude out with 7t REAL soon and some dev work.
     
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    RAVAGE88

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    What process does Bartlein use? Given the long relationship Vudoo has had with Bartlein I assume they also do some good stuff with barrels.
    I'm only vaguely familiar with their process but have had good performance from their barrels.

    MB
     

    JBoomhauer

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    It is a 7.62x39. I get 3-4” groups with it at 100 standing off a tripod and a bag. 2moa dot.

    Rain can be an issue with the open emitter however. Got a rubber cap for it when it might drizzle a bit. Or just grab something else on those days.
     
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    JBoomhauer

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    And as a design standpoint… the mag sucks. Flush mag please.
     

    brianf

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    It is a 7.62x39. I get 3-4” groups with it at 100 standing off a tripod and a bag. 2moa dot.

    Rain can be an issue with the open emitter however. Got a rubber cap for it when it might drizzle a bit. Or just grab something else on those days.
    good point with the emitter

    did you think of using a aimpoint style as well or that is what you had laying around
     
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    JBoomhauer

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    good point with the emitter

    did you think of using a aimpoint style as well or that is what you had laying around
    Had it lying around, didn’t care for a scope on that gun.

    I do have an aimpoint that I mocked up, but it was a little too high for the comb.
     
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    JBoomhauer

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    This is a sister rifle to a .22 I set up at the same time.

    The red dot makes it so my 4 year old can hit clay targets at 20 yards easily, but could not get a scope or irons to work.

    Once he starts hunting he will go from the .22 to the 7.62 and everything should carry over for him.

    B55D25D6-4280-4047-9E08-8DC585482086.jpeg
     

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    flatland1

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    I bought one of those 527 Carbines in 7.62x39 to get an action with the correct boltface for the 1st 6 RAT boltgun I built. The Turkish walnut stock on mine had some attractive vertical stripe figure, and it made a nice looking little rifle with a Krieger #4 sporter blank finished at 24". The carbine stock's short forend made the 24" bbl look pretty long, but - at least to me - it was still an attractive rifle. I didn't do any looking for a set of 30mm scope rings, and instead used the 1" rings that came with the rifle to mount a Sightron SII variable. I never did get the factory magazine to feed with 100% reliability, but it wasn't all that bad in the end. Always liked the way that rifle fit me - it came up just right every time I swung it up into my shoulder. The photo shows a Howa Mini bbl'd action with factory bbl & plastic bottom 'metal', the Sako L461 in 223, and the CZ527 in 6 RAT.
     

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    carbonbased

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    The hanging mag doesn’t bother me. I luckily bought a CZ 527 17 Hornet Varmint, 22 Hornet Lux, & 204 Varmint before CZ cut their own head off (and before 527 prices subsequently doubled or tripled).

    221 Fireball on the way, found it today!

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    I love these small weird calibers!
     
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    carbonbased

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    P.S. for you fellow CZ 527 nutz, this bolt handle is pretty darn sweet and really improved the bolt throw for me.


    Thinking of getting their version for my Tikka as well. Can’t find any Sterks.

    ======

    Back to reg scheduled programming on whatever MB is cooking up. It’s sounding pretty darn interesting!
     
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    flatland1

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    carbonbased - Over on RFC, they'd all declare that you've hit the 'wood lottery' with that 527. It's pretty snazzy, no question about it. I've often wondered if the one I built the 6 RAT on would've looked any nicer if I'd stripped that 'muddy' finish off the stock and went back with something like a hand-rubbed tung oil finish? Too late now - I sold that rifle to a friend a little over a year ago, and the last time I talked with him, he'd been too busy to even shoot it. Maybe I should call him back and ask for 1st right of refusal on it if he should decide to sell it...
     
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    obx22

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    carbonbased - Over on RFC, they'd all declare that you've hit the 'wood lottery' with that 527. It's pretty snazzy, no question about it. I've often wondered if the one I built the 6 RAT on would've looked any nicer if I'd stripped that 'muddy' finish off the stock and went back with something like a hand-rubbed tung oil finish? Too late now - I sold that rifle to a friend a little over a year ago, and the last time I talked with him, he'd been too busy to even shoot it. Maybe I should call him back and ask for 1st right of refusal on it if he should decide to sell it...
    There’s just something about those CZ mini actions, from the fully adjustable set-trigger, to the fit/finish/function. I only have the one (221FB), but searched for one in 7.62/39 with the American style stock. I still pine for a quality gun like this in .22TCM.
    4305521D-0695-43C2-9912-C343489052F0.jpeg
     

    flatland1

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    obx22 - Dang! That's gorgeous! I don't think there's another rifle maker that's ever offered stocks as nice - albeit, on a scattered basis - as CZ has on their standard rifles, at no extra cost, over the past couple of decades. The ones on my CZ457 MTR & American are nice, but no where near as fancy as others I've seen here & on RFC.
     
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    Franko

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    I am going to have to be the unwashed barbarian here and ask for a chassis like an MDT HNT26 for the upcoming mini action. I understand the appeal that beautiful wood stock has, but like options (folding stock, mounting points, etc.) and don't want to feel guilt when that fine wood gets beat up while out in the field.
     

    Frankr

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    There’s just something about those CZ mini actions, from the fully adjustable set-trigger, to the fit/finish/function. I only have the one (221FB), but searched for one in 7.62/39 with the American style stock. I still pine for a quality gun like this in .22TCM.
    View attachment 7980226
    22TCM is the cartridge that should have been.

    It’s like the rimfire 5mm or 17hm2


    The 22TCM-R as well.

    They magwell of a 9mm but ballistics close to 5.7x28

    Would be awesome as a truck pistol and a light weight varmint rifle combo that use the same ammo.
     

    obx22

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    22TCM is the cartridge that should have been.

    It’s like the rimfire 5mm or 17hm2


    The 22TCM-R as well.

    They magwell of a 9mm but ballistics close to 5.7x28

    Would be awesome as a truck pistol and a light weight varmint rifle combo that use the same ammo.
    Indeed, from everything I’ve seen (owned the “precision” rifle for a short while), it strikes me as a modern take on the .22Hornet, albeit with far more durable cases. The 5.7/28 will almost fit a .22Mag magazine, and in an action somewhere between the 453 and 527, would be an incredible carry rifle. If I had either cartridge in a 527, that would become my primary hunting arm for any game.
     
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    Franko

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    22TCM is the cartridge that should have been.

    It’s like the rimfire 5mm or 17hm2


    The 22TCM-R as well.

    They magwell of a 9mm but ballistics close to 5.7x28

    Would be awesome as a truck pistol and a light weight varmint rifle combo that use the same ammo.
    The "magwell of a 9mm" line triggered a weird idea. I wonder if the mini action could be configured to shoot 9x19mm? A portable, light, and accurate 9mm bolt action would be a really great plinker. I'd also think it would be fantastic to shoot supressed.
     

    carbonbased

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    Wow fellas, what a week, lots accomplished….you guys have spoken and you shall receive….on many fronts.

    MB
    Oh yeah, one quick change barrel idea that you’ve probably already seen. The method Kidd uses for their Supergrade quick change barrels is pretty neat. Might be patented, I don’t know, but there’s no threading and it involves two bolts. One is at an angle, like 30°(?).

    I’m no engineer, but I like it better than AI’s system. But maybe threading is pretty much required for even small centerfire cartridges; if so I don’t think Kidd’s system would work.
     

    Csafisher

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    Oh yeah, one quick change barrel idea that you’ve probably already seen. The method Kidd uses for their Supergrade quick change barrels is pretty neat. Might be patented, I don’t know, but there’s no threading and it involves two bolts. One is at an angle, like 30°(?).

    I’m no engineer, but I like it better than AI’s system. But maybe threading is pretty much required for even small centerfire cartridges; if so I don’t think Kidd’s system would work.
    Hard to beat the simple set screws used by terminus. That would be nice on a 22 as well.
     

    Csafisher

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    I snap my barrel on hand tight. It seems to stick pretty good. The set screws are insurance. I’m not sure what other locking system you could use on a bolt action quick change barrel. I’m not too familiar with the blaser system but I think the barrels bolt to the receiver? That would also be cool, but then you get away from the 700 footprint world.
     

    AMTGMC

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    Not a fan of set screws. In some applications, it’s difficult to avoid them, but generally, I view set screws no different than shims.

    MB
    Just curious, would a taper lock with a spline or key way to time the extractor cuts and a treaded lock ring over the barrel shoulder and screwed to the action possible?

    Maybe just use the extractor cuts as the key way.
     
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    b6graham

    MMPRL
    Full Member
    Minuteman
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  • Jul 29, 2014
    7,192
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    Colorado
    Not a fan of set screws. In some applications, it’s difficult to avoid them, but generally, I view set screws no different than shims.

    MB
    vortex agrees. razor gen 2 turret divots versus the new collar system

    now just to have a similar hose clamp/boa type security without needing a tool
     

    RedDawn

    WOLVERINES
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 18, 2017
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    Ok are we talking about buying a barrel that will fit any CZ457 or sending in a CZ457 action to be threaded for a barrel with length options like 22” 0.90 and a cone breach with an EPS chamber and indexing for the barrel ?

    Or are we talking about a new to the scene proprietary action with a barrel you can dream up we will make so you can swap depending on the task ?