That's some silly shit! Doubt Savage would send out an unthreaded blank. Lost a lot of faith in jonaddis84.
Gunsmithing Who predrills their chambers?
- Thread starter chipsfan
- Start date
That's some silly shit! Doubt Savage would send out an unthreaded blank. Lost a lot of faith in jonaddis84.
Here is our scraps we received on our visit. We practiced on some when we attended Cerakote training. Some have different processes tried on them in house. The tan one 4rth from the right get's beat on with other barrels or various tools. When it's not being beat on it lives in the ditch behind the shop year round to show the rust resistance and durability of Cerakote. Some were used to teach people threading and chambering on. The shiney ones live in a drawer and the coated ones live in a steel tube beside our mill. They make good spacer stock or metal for tools.
While I was out there I shot what's in the lathe at the moment. Here is a super deluxe 338 Lapua on a Bat M. This one only has .00175" runout in the length of it. We just finished threading it 3/4-24 for a CSR brake and future can. Watch for this one in the near future. These will be one of our best efforts in a long range precision hunting rifle. (Landing gun) Even getting a 50 power scope on it.
2 dozen bbls laid out single file doesn't make a pile. Impress me with some numbers like 300sniper. ;-)
I was being generous with the 2 dozen. ;-)
I was being generous with the 2 dozen. ;-)
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What the heck do you mean by lying? What part? Was I even there? You asked. I showed you. I didn't go alone. I have names of witnesses if you like. How about fuel receipts? This is over 80 pounds of physical proof. I didn't ask for them. They offered. This was more than I wanted and was plenty for an armload. I really don't even like them around. If you come by you can have them. I don't even keep brand new take offs. I send them to recycling with my chips from the machines. Don't judge me based on your own limitations. I can document everything I have stated on this forum. Can you?
that video doesnt prove shit. i've had super straight remington factory tubes, exceptionally straight mcgowan, off the charts straight schneider, crooked as fuck kreigers, crooked as fuck rocks, crooked as fuck bartleins etc etc etc. that kreiger happens to be a straight one. and by crooked i mean above .020 tir
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Mdm, thats because we know it really doesnt mean shit. how fucking dare you say you indicated it to .0000!!!!! you blasphemous son of a bitch. now.... start rammin your indicators in everywhere and taking more videos cause that has to be an anomaly. you didnt predrill and rub chambering fluid on your nipples before you gouged out that chamber that seems to shoot .1's did you?
Here you go, criticize all you want.
[video=youtube_share;m-ILKzhqryA]http://youtu.be/m-ILKzhqryA[/video]
[video=youtube_share;m-ILKzhqryA]http://youtu.be/m-ILKzhqryA[/video]
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 1) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 2) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 3) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 4) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 6) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 7) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 8) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 2) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 3) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 4) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 6) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 7) - YouTube
Checking the finished chamber runout (part 8) - YouTube
No Viper's Venom on the nipples, but my old lady bitches when I get it on all over the door knobs from traversing thru the house with it on my hands. Range rods, pre drilling, indicating, blah, blah, blah...The real secret to doing good work for yourself, and I will only post this once - Peppa Pig blaring in the background on the TV and if you don't change at least one shitty diaper in the process, you might as well forget it and start over.
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It's pretty tough to make a Good chicken salad when all you have to work with is chicken shit.
Gundrills coming out the side of the blank etc. ;-)
If only the bbl makers had indicators! BIG ;-)
Gundrills coming out the side of the blank etc. ;-)
If only the bbl makers had indicators! BIG ;-)
Not likely but I did spend the night in a motel 6 back in the 80s ;-)
Maybe 30 years ago.
Agreed - The guys winning matches now, are chambering thru the headstock, indicating throat and muzzle as close as can be done. The guy that won the last 2 1/2 World Championships, does his own smith work, is a very good smith, and isn't happy unless it is as perfect as he can get it.
FWIW, I visited a very well known cut rifled barrel maker a couple months ago. I sure didn't see that big pile of scrap barrels there. I did see their scrap pile, it was not very large, we commented on that. What I did see was a bunch of guys trying very hard to make the best barrels possible. Not the best for what they had, not the best based on 70 year old P&W machines, the best they could. What I have noticed is that when we gave them feedback about what we saw in their barrels, they worked hard on making it better. I get one of their barrels these days, put it in the chuck, take a quick OD indicator read, true that up, then true up the muzzle end, I have very little work left to do to true the ID up before starting to cut tenon. I like that when someone is trying to get better and not just say " it's been good enough all this time, why change". If a gun drill poked out the side of one of their barrels, it's probably a broken drill!
Entertaining to say the least. It's hard to argue with results. I find it hilarious the one of the biggest shit starters on this forum has posted not a fuckall bit of proof or example of his work. 300, SS and fc have all posted results of their work weather it makes a difference or not they have shown exactly what they have posted. Still all we get from this rambling asshat is more shit stirring and no proof of his results. Just my opinion but I'm no expert.
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Me neither, but I do hang out with a few. I spend a lot more time listening and learning than speaking.
I find with anything that you will learn a lot more useful information if you keep your trap shut and your eyes, ears and mind open. Also there is no such thing as asking a stupid question, just stupid people.
I don't have anything to prove! Spinning a pipe to zero tolerance proves nothing except time wasted by someone with too much ;-)
Just to humor you. Not benchrest material but last time I checked this wasn't benchrest central.
No offense buddy, but you talk a lot of trash and when asked to post pictures of your machining setups... you post your best 2 targets (the bottom one is showing some age with its yellowing) of your life with no supporting information (50 yards? 100 yards?).
You claim your machine work doesn't actually matter and you don't need zero runout? We all have groups like those from factory rifles, but the difference is that a nicely machined custom rifle will produce groups like that all day long, whereas a factory rifle will produce them once in a while. I'm sure you are fully aware of all of the differences since you are one of the top smiths on this forum (right?).
I don't claim to be the best, but I have documented a little of my early machine work in my sig, keep in mind most of this is from 2-3 years ago, so my methods have improved quite a bit. Every rifle I have built, I have spent the time to do it right and all have been great shooters.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, please stop flaming posts just to be a troll (almost every post you make). If you have something constructive to add, please do, otherwise, just think to yourself how dumb we all are and let it die there.
You claim your machine work doesn't actually matter and you don't need zero runout? We all have groups like those from factory rifles, but the difference is that a nicely machined custom rifle will produce groups like that all day long, whereas a factory rifle will produce them once in a while. I'm sure you are fully aware of all of the differences since you are one of the top smiths on this forum (right?).
I don't claim to be the best, but I have documented a little of my early machine work in my sig, keep in mind most of this is from 2-3 years ago, so my methods have improved quite a bit. Every rifle I have built, I have spent the time to do it right and all have been great shooters.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, please stop flaming posts just to be a troll (almost every post you make). If you have something constructive to add, please do, otherwise, just think to yourself how dumb we all are and let it die there.
No offence????????? Good thing I can't be offended easily or you would have done it. I've never seen the sense in a portfolio, hence the faded yellowing target. I can't shoot worth a damned so I decided to save it. Wish my buddy Jim was still alive. I'd show you the target he shot with my 308. 4 touching and 1 opened it up to about 1" at 400 yds. 2nd hand Hart I bought here on the Hide ;-)
All you guys think your superior machining skills make 'em shoot when the truth is, it all boils down to the quality of the barrel. Insert shit eating grin here ;-)
All you guys think your superior machining skills make 'em shoot when the truth is, it all boils down to the quality of the barrel. Insert shit eating grin here ;-)
Dialing them in straight works pretty good too....not benchrest groups but not bad for 100yards prone off the ground. 5 shot groups unless noted different
I used to do it that way but I couldn't get the chuck tight enough and it would spin on the reamer ;-) Found an old singer sewing machine, you know the kind with the foot pump. Threw the sewing machine away and mounted some v blocks on the table for the barrel to spin in. Works great holding the reamer with a crescent wrench ;-) DUMBASS!!!
Nice shooting FC !
I don't doubt for a minute that this is true. Only a professional with your talents could pull this off.
Yes, you've proven to quite good at being one of those too.
How about you actually contribute something worthwhile instead of constantly baiting guys into showing how they do things simply so you can criticize?
Ok I have a question in an effert to get this thread back on track. I've only chambered two barrels. I took light cuts(0.025-0.075 depending on how the reamer is cutting) back out and clean. I'm using vipers venom as my cutting oil. This method is very time consuming but yells good results. I checked TIR on both chambers and the first was 0.0001" and the second was 0.0002". Both rifles shoot well under .5moa. I'm interested in trying the pre bore method atleast once. My question is how close to the case diameter and how close to the shoulder depth are you cutting before switching to the reamer? Also how does this compare to chambering with a flush system in terms of speed and surface finish?
Thanks
Donald
Thanks
Donald
.010'' under diameter and .100'' short is what I do.
No.
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I had an old time benchrest shooter tell me one time that the bent bore barrels shot better than the straight ones. he was serious as a heart attack to!! I like to chamber like Gordy does. Only difference is that I insert a bushing up into the throat area, and indicate off the inside of the bushing. No land and groove movement to deal with while trying to read the indicator. I suppose some will claim the groove is more accurate, and that may be so. My barrels have been doing quite well, so I am going to continue doing my barrels this way.
I try to focus on things like tight or loose spots in the barrel. Slugging a barrel properly can give you lots of info. Good barrels and good bullets are the key. Lee
I try to focus on things like tight or loose spots in the barrel. Slugging a barrel properly can give you lots of info. Good barrels and good bullets are the key. Lee
Actually, it would be more inclined to cause it.
Chatter is a product of one or combination of the following:
1. Too much tool in contact with the part at any given moment.
2. Too conservative a feedrate.
3. Too high a spindle speed.
4. Poor work holding.
5. Poor tool holding.
Paint a scenario.
Straight flute tool has "X" for a given flute length. Now apply a helix and "X" just got longer. How much depends on a number of things, diameter and how aggressive the pitch is on the helix.
-See #1's statement.
Not saying this IS going to happen, but it does infringe up a cardinal rule. The opposite however is true for a high helix endmill as it reduces the tool pressure. The big difference with a mill being he cutting surface gets to enjoy at least 50% of it's diameter off the part where it just cuts air. The helix increases the shearing effect which further reduces the cutting forces. With a reamer your in 100% contact 100% of the time. That said, you can create a very nasty frequency with the tool going in/out all the time and this again is where speeds and feeds are so vital.
Same applies with reams, just that your working inside out now and your tool is stationary where's your work isn't.
Now address chip compaction. It's hard enough to clear the swarf on a straight flute, now you have to navigate a long curve. It's more inclined to promote chip compaction which is always poison of the WMD variety in the chambering world.
Going home!
C.
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The more material you drill out saves wear and tear on your reamer and it speeds up chambering.
If you have a stub with a chamber to depth its simple to select twist drills and set a stop on them as to not drill too deep.
Grab a piece of scrap cold rolled steel , brass or delrin , cut a chamber and use it to set your roughing drills.
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Ok please forgive my ignorance. But now I'm up in the air on which process I'd like to try first. Pre bore or chamber flush. I'm more of an objective learner so I'd hate to try both on the same chamber and not know which makes a bigger difference. When your pre boring I assume your able to take deeper cuts with a more agressive feed rate due to the amount of material being removed. Also when your using a flush system are you constantly feeding until close to final depth? Or do you still back out the reamer and clean? I'm in no hurry when chambering so I'm not looking for the fastest results just looking to improve my results if at all possible. Seeing 300's and FC's videos tells me there room to improve. Iv gained an exceptional amount of info from people here and I thank you fou you replys to my questions.
Thanks
Donald
Thanks
Donald
Chad, Got to add one more to your list.....chambering at too slow of a speed will cause chatter also.
Had a customer call about a month or so ago. Was getting chatter while chambering. He thought it had to do with the 5R rifling etc....because he had heard that on the net. I went over his set up etc.... with him on the phone. When I asked what speed he was running the lathe at it was really slow. Like around 30 or 40rpm. I told him to bump his speed up. He called me back and said he bumped the speed up and the chatter went away.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Prebore and flush. Saving wear on the reamer and constant lubrication can't be a bad thing.
