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Rifle Scopes Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

glockophile

glockophile

Private
Minuteman
Nov 8, 2009
14
0
46
Underground bunker! Indiana
In my 2 years of prowling this website Ive noticed an increase in the distaste in Leupold scopes. I know that only a very small fraction of their scopes are still U.S. made but the same goes for many other companies. I think they still offer a considerable level of quality at their price point. Im like most other average Joes and all my rifles are used for are for punching paper. I think they are a good middle of the road option. I wish I had the money to invest in a USO or other high end scope but as of right now I think the glass still looks pretty good through a Leupold. What am I missing?
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

I dunno man, Id love to aford great glass, but Ive never had anything great or even leupold. The best Ive had is a bushnell, but oh well it works for me for now, but Im only a kid
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Disappointing the direction that Leupold is heading...they are in my price range but they are not what they used to be.

Any price/compareable alternatives? Would love to have a USO, NF or S&B but they cost too much for me.

Great thread JasonK, had not seen it until now. Terry's rant was well stated.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

I agree w/ Mr. Cross's statements; but I have to wonder if he will continue to endorse one of the two brands that he carries when he is made aware of the place of manufacture of the internals?
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

how can anyone say leupold is middle of the road pricing? a mark 4 8.5x25 is around 1500 dollars, and you can pick up a new nightforce 5.5x22 for almost the same cost. the fixed 10 power mark4 is more expensive than a uso st10.

nothing in the optics world says overpriced quite like leupold.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

If they are so horrible why does the US Army and almost every law enforcment department use them?
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they are so horrible why does the US Army and almost every law enforcment department use them?</div></div>

reputation
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they are so horrible why does the US Army and almost every law enforcment department use them? </div></div>

Remember the military and LEO usually award contracts to the lowest bidder.

Just because the military uses it doesn't mean it's the best.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

I asked the same question about leupold bashing...

now that I just dropped $1200 on a mark 4, and compared to a vortex viper that was well under $500, let's just say I'm left wondering why in the F the leupold goes for $700 more...

the leupold is not a "bad" scope by any means. I have a couple on hunting rifles, and they have always worked. It's just that other scopes work too. and other scopes have better glass.

my zeiss is much clearer than any of my leupolds.... it's just a bitch that a $450 dollar scope looks optically superior than leupold's top tier scopes
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Oh I know we have some of the worst gear possible... but Leupold still isn't shitty by any means. But the Army and Swat teams are making missions and doing a great job with them. How can they be that bad?
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Precise1,

In another post today I said the following of Leupold:

<span style="font-style: italic">Leupold was the pinnacle of tactical rifle scopes.....in 1989. Not much has been improved over the last 20 years, except the prices have gotten higher; and therein lies the problem with Leupold.

Great Customer service, Great Custom shop, and operational features that were the cutting edge 20 years ago.

Wish they would get a clue. Used to love their stuff. But the world has moved on, and Leupold has stood rigidly still.</span>

That is not bashing Leupold, it's a realization that previously well thought of US company, is on the decline. There is no good reason for this to be so. Insipid management, resting on it's past laurels, are dooming a fine (MK4) product line to an also-ran, laughing stock status.

The only rational that prevents Leupold from fully competing with S&B, USO, Premier Hertiage, Nightforce, IOR, Vortex, Sightron, Falcon and even SWFA's Super Sniper lines, is that they (Leupold) chose not to do so. So they peddle the exact same products as they did in 1999, but change the packaging, and increase the price.

If Leupold choses not the compete and provide me as a shooter with a product that is competitive, both functionally and price wise, with the competition; then I chose not to buy their product.

But as a company who at one time lead the world in production and design of tactical scopes, Leupold's fall has been profound and stunning.

Maybe there is more money to be made for Leupold, by peddling Dog Shit Optics from China, and selling it as America's finest. But count me off of that bandwagon.


Bob
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh I know we have some of the worst gear possible... but Leupold still isn't shitty by any means. But the Army and Swat teams are making missions and doing a great job with them. How can they be that bad? </div></div>
price
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

They arent horrible, there are just many better options out there.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

last mk4 i bought was defective out of the box. Thats pretty disappointing quality control, even if they made good and replaced the product.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they are so horrible why does the US Army and almost every law enforcment department use them? </div></div>

LEO uses Leupold because everyone else uses Leupold in the LE world.

I showed some of them a NF F1 back in Sept and all of them liked it. But the first response is, its to much $$$.

Next, the military uses them because, they want to. It has nothing to do with whats best, it has everything to do with "well, we have used it for the last 20yds why change now"????

Also alot of people assume the people selecting equipment for the .mil know equipment, thats not always true.

John
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

If the mark 4 had moa/moa or mil/mil they would sell a lot more. If I could have a 20oz scope with 15moa per revolution, a moa reticle, all in a compact little scope for $1100 I would buy it tomorrow.

I have seen everything from canted reticles, bad tracking at the top end, and sub par glass. These are some of the complaints. When you can spend $300 more and get a NF with moa/moa, illuminated reticle, and a great reputation; its clear why people seem to prefer other scopes.

Leupold has got so big they make their money off their name and inexpensive mass produced scopes like the VXIII and Rifleman. IMO they have lost touch with the modern shooting community. They have no apparent need to change. They sell plenty of scopes.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

yea, but only the "rich kids" can afford S&B, USO, etc. Doubt many real operators can afford that
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Yea our department states that we pretty much shouldn't shoot anything over 200 unless it's life or death. We can usually stalk up to anything with 100 if not closer
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

...and all this time I thought it was just me, but i think my reticle is canted a bit too.
mad.gif
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea, but only the "rich kids" can afford S&B, USO, etc. Doubt many real operators can afford that</div></div>

Please, "real operators" what is that... the ones getting paid for operating absolutely can afford that, and the special operations community uses NF / S&B already... so what is a "real operator" ?

you see Leupolds because they are usually packaged, like with the "No Bid" Mk11 Mod 0... or the M110, which in the case of the M110, real operators dislike.

Leupold is resting on their laurels, the new SWFA Super Snipers blow any model Leupold away, at half the price.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea, but only the "rich kids" can afford S&B, USO, etc. Doubt many real operators can afford that </div></div>

Ok time for me to get on my soap box and its not directed at anyone, just a mindset.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">If a person is a Sniper, lets say LEO, due to more flexibility in gear than standard .mil</span></span>

Not one citizen of the United States is worth top of the line equipment?

So the city boards own family members life is not worth the cost of high end rifles and optics?

The Sheriffs / Chiefs own kids are not worth the cost of one $1500 + rifle or optic?

how can someone place a price tag on a citizen of this great country's head?

Off soap box.

This same point I made can be used for equipment, training and what ever you want.

I told my wife, when I join the LE comm one day, she better get ready, I will buy the best body armor I can get, I will run the best equipment I can get, due to my life, and every citizens life is worth every cent spent.

take it for what its worth.

John
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea, but only the "rich kids" can afford S&B, USO, etc. Doubt many real operators can afford that </div></div>

Ok time for me to get on my soap box and its not directed at anyone, just a mindset.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">If a person is a Sniper, lets say LEO, due to more flexibility in gear than standard .mil</span></span>

Not one citizen of the United States is worth top of the line equipment?

So the city boards own family members life is not worth the cost of high end rifles and optics?

The Sheriffs / Chiefs own kids are not worth the cost of one $1500 + rifle or optic?

how can someone place a price tag on a citizen of this great country's head?

Off soap box.

This same point I made can be used for equipment, training and what ever you want.

I told my wife, when I join the LE comm one day, she better get ready, I will buy the best body armor I can get, I will run the best equipment I can get, due to my life, and every citizens life is worth every cent spent.

take it for what its worth.

John </div></div>

Lets hope your department lets you use the stuff you buy. None issued armor... hope you don't get shot and the insurance doesn't cover it because you didn't use department issued.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

I had new turrets installed on a vari x 3 this summer. Got it out the other day to zero it in and the fucker won't even zero at 100. It's bottomed out in elev and maxed in windage. Leupys are great!
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Is the new SS really that good? Shall I sell my Mark4 M3?
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea, but only the "rich kids" can afford S&B, USO, etc. Doubt many real operators can afford that</div></div>

Please, "real operators" what is that... the ones getting paid for operating absolutely can afford that, and the special operations community uses NF / S&B already... so what is a "real operator" ?

you see Leupolds because they are usually packaged, like with the "No Bid" Mk11 Mod 0... or the M110, which in the case of the M110, real operators dislike.

Leupold is resting on their laurels, the new SWFA Super Snipers blow any model Leupold away, at half the price. </div></div>

Slow down now, I'm not bashing people here...so don't get all worked up.
I'm refering to police mostly by "real operator" statement.
I'm not taking away from military or contractors either they are "real operators" too. Guys don't get so worked up with what I'm saying. Now we're so far off track of the "Leupold topic" anyway.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Lets hope your department lets you use the stuff you buy. None issued armor... hope you don't get shot and the insurance doesn't cover it because you didn't use department issued. </div></div>

Very good point, and to be honest I do not know due to me only speculating.

But I do think that point is true and I do know it falls of deaf ears too
wink.gif
the people doing it, are not the ones pointing fingers at the aftermath also
wink.gif


John
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Both of the MK 4's I had were sent back many times each, for focus, an tracking issues, sold them both, never will buy Leuopld again. My last Veri X III just bit the dust, won't track anymore.
My SN-3's have had 10X more knob turning than the Leupolds and they still track perfect.

Leupold was a leader back when, but the rest of the Optic world caught up an drove way on down the road, in the tactical world. The hunting world where 1-2 boxs of ammo is the years supply their still up, but giving up that ground as well.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

When I was shooting an M14 DMR, it was topped with an early 90s Leupold M1A Ultra 10x (pre-Mk4). It had etched glass reticle and was clear as any available, including the many Unertl target scopes I have used. Looking thru and dialing on today's Mk4's I am <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">VERY</span></span> disappointed. It doesn't surprise me to see a prevalent shift to NF optics in the hands of SOCOM assets. You can see the USMC shifted to S&B when they obsoleted the Unertls. Present-day Leupold products are just riding the reputation of their predecessors and not making the cut when compared to other manufacturer's optics in the same price scale.

The DoD doesn't always choose the lowest bidder. They will select the best cost benefit when sourcing weapons related contracts. There is a pretty significant qualification process required for any such contract item.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea, but only the "rich kids" can afford S&B, USO, etc. Doubt many real operators can afford that </div></div>

Ok time for me to get on my soap box and its not directed at anyone, just a mindset.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">If a person is a Sniper, lets say LEO, due to more flexibility in gear than standard .mil</span></span>

Not one citizen of the United States is worth top of the line equipment?

So the city boards own family members life is not worth the cost of high end rifles and optics?

The Sheriffs / Chiefs own kids are not worth the cost of one $1500 + rifle or optic?

how can someone place a price tag on a citizen of this great country's head?

Off soap box.

This same point I made can be used for equipment, training and what ever you want.

I told my wife, when I join the LE comm one day, she better get ready, I will buy the best body armor I can get, I will run the best equipment I can get, due to my life, and every citizens life is worth every cent spent.

take it for what its worth.

John </div></div>

Lets hope your department lets you use the stuff you buy. None issued armor... hope you don't get shot and the insurance doesn't cover it because you didn't use department issued. </div></div>

I dont see why insurance would not cover an officer wearing his own purchased body armor unless it was a less threat level than required by dept policy, if required at all. It's sad to say but there are alot of agencies out there that still dont provide body armor or if they do it's hand me downs or expired vests from larger neighboring agencies. If you must, buy the best you can afford, many lives depend on it.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

You just can't beat a Nightforce for the price brand new you are going to spend 1600 but buy one used you can get it for 1200 or cheaper. Same price as a Mark 4 but 2x or more the glass quality and turret quality. I compared by Falcon 4-14 to a Mark 4 4.5-14 and the falcon has slightly better quality. I think someone did a review on here a month ago a 3.5-10 leupold vs a Falcon have to search it up. But the Falcon was a dead heat for a 1/3 of the price.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Well I'm glad to be reading all this as I've been wanting to purchase a MK4, now I really have to rethink it over and put out some more dough on something better.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pflyinguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea, but only the "rich kids" can afford S&B, USO, etc. Doubt many real operators can afford that </div></div>

Ok time for me to get on my soap box and its not directed at anyone, just a mindset.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">If a person is a Sniper, lets say LEO, due to more flexibility in gear than standard .mil</span></span>

Not one citizen of the United States is worth top of the line equipment?

So the city boards own family members life is not worth the cost of high end rifles and optics?

The Sheriffs / Chiefs own kids are not worth the cost of one $1500 + rifle or optic?

how can someone place a price tag on a citizen of this great country's head?

Off soap box.

This same point I made can be used for equipment, training and what ever you want.

I told my wife, when I join the LE comm one day, she better get ready, I will buy the best body armor I can get, I will run the best equipment I can get, due to my life, and every citizens life is worth every cent spent.

take it for what its worth.

John </div></div>

Lets hope your department lets you use the stuff you buy. None issued armor... hope you don't get shot and the insurance doesn't cover it because you didn't use department issued. </div></div>

I dont see why insurance would not cover an officer wearing his own purchased body armor unless it was a less threat level than required by dept policy, if required at all. It's sad to say but there are alot of agencies out there that still dont provide body armor or if they do it's hand me downs or expired vests from larger neighboring agencies. If you must, buy the best you can afford, many lives depend on it. </div></div>

Every state department, city department, sher office's, marshall's officer, etc etc etc very so much from town to town. I'm not even going to going into it. MY department states I can only wear department issued. YOUR department my let you do whatever you want.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

If there is a list of companies one can, and cannot bash; please point me in the right direction?
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaw921</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I'm glad to be reading all this as I've been wanting to purchase a MK4, now I really have to rethink it over and put out some more dough on something better. </div></div>
I would have to place Sightron SIIIs as being better than Leupold's mark4s spend the money and get a nightforce or save some and buy a sightron!
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaw921</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I'm glad to be reading all this as I've been wanting to purchase a MK4, now I really have to rethink it over and put out some more dough on something better. </div></div>
I would have to place Sightron SIIIs as being better than Leupold's mark4s spend the money and get a nightforce or save some and buy a sightron! </div></div>


Well put. Sightron is affordable, glass is on par with Mark 4 or real close.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

I also considered a MK 4, but the SuperSniper line with FFP and mil/mil adjustments easily took the cake for my needs and budget. Prior to this thread, I had heard of some of the problems associated with some MK 4's that have been mentioned above. I'll stay with SS, they make one hell of a price point "tactical" scope.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaw921</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I'm glad to be reading all this as I've been wanting to purchase a MK4, now I really have to rethink it over and put out some more dough on something better. </div></div>
I would have to place Sightron SIIIs as being better than Leupold's mark4s spend the money and get a nightforce or save some and buy a sightron!</div></div>

Well, a NF may be in my future. Also read good reviews on the falcon menace. Thanks for the suggestions.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Slow down now, I'm not bashing people here...so don't get all worked up.
I'm refering to police mostly by "real operator" statement.
I'm not taking away from military or contractors either they are "real operators" too. Guys don't get so worked up with what I'm saying. Now we're so far off track of the "Leupold topic" anyway. </div></div>

I get paid to stare through a rifle scope at folks who do evil. I use a USO. It's a great optic. I won it off a prize table at a match. Glad I did, because it's at the upper end of what a cop can afford.

It's all well and good to say that when lives are on the line, only the best will do. It's a noble philosophy. Unfortunately when the baby needs shoes and the wife is out of work money is tight. Kids don't understand going to school in hole ridden clothes because daddy needs a new rifle scope.

We recently got new rifles for the department. They are LTR's topped with Mk4's. Did we get the Leupolds because they are the best? Not even close. Why then? Because they are a LE standard taught in every school. Since they are a standard they are easy to justify to the brass and in a courtroom. They do fill our requirements. They are not the best but they are what the "police supply" company that the bid went to had. 90% of the time the end-users don't get to write the checks for the gear. Someone who will probably never even see the weapon gets to decide if the price is right.

If I got a budget and the capability to spec out the perfect package it may be different. But this is government and it don't work that way.

Don't ever fool yourself into thinking what is issued to the guys in the field must be the best. Very often if you asked them what they wanted they would tell you something different from what the paper pushers decided they need.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea, but only the "rich kids" can afford S&B, USO, etc. Doubt many real operators can afford that </div></div>

Ok time for me to get on my soap box and its not directed at anyone, just a mindset.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">If a person is a Sniper, lets say LEO, due to more flexibility in gear than standard .mil</span></span>

Not one citizen of the United States is worth top of the line equipment?

So the city boards own family members life is not worth the cost of high end rifles and optics?

The Sheriffs / Chiefs own kids are not worth the cost of one $1500 + rifle or optic?

how can someone place a price tag on a citizen of this great country's head?

Off soap box.

This same point I made can be used for equipment, training and what ever you want.

I told my wife, when I join the LE comm one day, she better get ready, I will buy the best body armor I can get, I will run the best equipment I can get, due to my life, and every citizens life is worth every cent spent.

take it for what its worth.

John </div></div>

hope this isnt too far out of line for my first post here I am not trying to make enemies just join in

but you have to look at the big picture and the big picture weather for you or any government entity is there is only so much money to go around, you can buy the best equipment but will suffer somewhere else in government it may be public transit or garbage service or building maintenance with your personal setup unless you are loaded now (because the leo's I know arent) you will have the same issue there is only so much to go around so you can buy the best body armor and not buy a TV or computer or maybe its simply a cheaper car payment and what happens when there is a new "best" do you go and buy it now or deal with what you already have even though it was good enough yesterday, will it be today? I am not bashing, or being an ass I just want to contribute here and hope this isnt taken out of turn
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Because if you buy a Leupold, the terrorists win.....
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

I can sum it up very easily.


5 degrees.

Leupold allows up tp 5 degrees of reticle cant and still be in spec. That is unacceptable for a "top end" optics manufacturer.

My biggest problem with them is not the actual scopes being produced. It is that they disapoint me. It is disappointing to see a model of American quality and an industry standard slip to second rate product with no development and sub-par construction.

They are riding on the public idea that "Leupolds are the best." And they have been riding it for to long. They counted on that public idea, and did not keep up with the competition.

5 degress...have some fucking pride in your product and tell your customers that, "nothing less than perfect is good enough for you, so nothing less than perfect is good enough for us." Instead, they lately are telling their customers, "this is what we got, its good enough, and you will like it because you used to think we were the best."
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Also Leupold prices themselves out of the competitive market. the Leupold Mk4 E/RT is right there around a NF NXS price wise. and the NF is of much greater quality. For a few hundred more bucks hop up into the NF F1. They are asking way to much for a lot less product than the competition. I have a couple Leupolds, nothing tactical and make about 15-20 years back and dont have the slightest problem with them. But their "tactical" line leaves alot to be desired
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
90% of the time the end-users don't get to write the checks for the gear. Someone who will probably never even see the weapon gets to decide if the price is right. </div></div>

I was one of those check writers my last year and half on active duty. When you have only so much monies in your budgets or the kit is already established as a NSN, its what you get. I was lucky, for the most part, I was an end user for years before so I knew more than most who did the job before.

Once retired, I was on the other end supplying kit. 99% of the time a call or a face to face, either way it was a list of...this is what I need, give me best price. When you gave advice back, they say, do not care, no not know what it is for, do not use it, list goes on....I have a list of NSN, give me your best price FOB.

Very few units have a blank check, I was in two of them. We had direct input to what we wanted, we researched, bought samples and such and got the best.

My Luepold FXII 3x from 1970s Made the USA I would stack up against anything these days. Never failed me, crisp, clear never fogged, always puts a bullet where I want, been bashed all over on top of a 340Wby.
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

Just got off the phone with the rep from Leupold talking to him about the parallax setting being extremley finicky on my mark4. He told me he had never seen this issue before on the mark 4, but was suspecious, so go ahead and send it in so they could check it out...

I guess I'm just unlucky and got the only Mark 4 in production with a parallax issue....
 
Re: Why all the Leupold bashing? What am I missing?

First off, I am a long time Leupold fan but even I am dissipointed with thier outsourcing, China, Japan, Mexico, I dont care. But if you think your Dodge, Chevy, Ford, Hummer, or 90% of almost anything made in this country is all US made, your an idiot. On this count, I aploud USO. That said, from the Sept. edition of Precision Shooting mag., "IBS News". Sulfur Springs VSF match, scope count:

Leupold - 16 (including first place)
Sightron - 6
B&L - 4
March - 3
NightForce - 2
Weaver - 2

These ranged anywhere from 10X to 60X but the vast majority were 35X to 45X. Now I realize these are'nt tactical scopes (like my MK4 which I have had nothing but excellent performance from) but I think it pretty much discredits any statement that Leupold glass is inferior. Ever tried looking through a really high powered scope with bad glass, it aint hapnin. Maybe someday Leupy will give us the scopes we ask for again but to act like they are junk now is just laughable.

okie
 
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