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Zero shift cause found

Oldloser

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Minuteman
  • Feb 20, 2021
    1,374
    1,573
    Texas
    Thought I would drop this experience in here.

    I have a 308 savage. With an Athlon Argos scope. The rifle was slightly used when I got it. I checked the scope and rifle and made sure it was solid but did not disassemble.

    About 400 rounds later....

    My recorded dope had never matched the Ballistic Arc nor 4doff. And I had issues hitting further steel targets regularly. To make things more confusing, I chronographed my ammo from the rifle and that confirmed that the ballsistic solver was likely right. Ammo was consistent with low 20 SD Odd.

    But my zero was always solid, but I Thought my groups seemed large.

    I chalked all this up to being rusty, but as I got more rounds down my wobble was gone and my press was solid and I was getting good holds and seeing impacts. Something seemed off and odd as I felt good but the rounds seems to be more flyers than anything.

    Until one day the zero check was off by .2 mil.

    I took the rifle completely apart and inspected every component. I found the base had rub marks and the front screw was loose.

    I reassembled per OEM specs and today shot 100 rounds in dot drills with most of the groups within the dots and touching. i then worked on .3 mil targets out to 600 yards with a 15 mph wind with mostly hits. In fact it was my best day by far. If I missed I KNEW it was me or the wind changed. Better yet, my actual dope matched ballistic arc all the way out to 600 yards.

    Lesson learned. Pic attached of base showing rub marks.

    08C606BC-E515-47E8-8E5A-8C246CB9CFA0.jpeg
     
    It’s always the little things. I was getting random flyers recently. I noticed a tiny pice of gravel wedged between my stock and the barrel. Disassembled, opened the barrel channel and everything is back to normal.
     
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    Are you sure all the screw's weren't a bit loose? I'd think that having 3 of 4 locked down would still keep that base down just fine.
     
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    Good catch, similar story happened to me. My buddy actually told me his rail was loose on his 308 and shot a little erratic and thought it was the barrel. He asked about how mine was doing and i thought the same thing as you. I’m a little rusty or maybe it’s the factory ammo. Then I grabbed it by the scope and could tell immediately it was loose. Tightened it back up and all was good.
     
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    I had a rail come loose on a Savage once. After that I started prepping the action/railing to create adhesion instead of release during the bedding process. That same savage had all of the screws loose a few thousand rounds later, but there were no issues with the zero shifting or shooting good groups. If the rails aren't integral or pinned, I have been gluing them in place since then. I haven't had anymore issues.
     
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    I’d say you should plan on always bedding a factory rail. Stacking tolerances can be nasty
     
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    Had a heavy Razor 56mm take a hit in a short fall, knocked my Badger 20moa rail loose on an LRI Rem700 build.
    Moved to an Impact action after that.
     
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    Man, good eyes finding the issue. My 700 was great for years, suddenly did like you were getting. Inconsistent. Didn't even seem to track, so I even went so far as to send the scope back to Steiner for a check. Never seemed wobbly, even after removing and re-torquing everything with a screw.

    Gave up, and simply replaced the base setup. Bang! Works fine now. Totally matching calculator to past 700 yds (ran out of range then). Probably something like yours but I couldn't find it, rarely have I know anyone who did, and it's this swap-nostics instead.
     
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    Its really incredible how very small weaknesses in mounting a scope can result is such poor performance.

    My buddy was complaining that his AR-10 gun was spraying bullets all over the place during a recent three gun training clinic.

    I asked him how he mounted his scope...the reply was "I put it on the rail and tightened everything" sigh Didn't know about pushing the rings forward and tight against the pic rail and didn't use torque wrenches at all.

    He brought the gun over prior to a trip to range. As hard as I tried, I could not feel any looseness in the mount. Nonetheless, pulled it off and started from scratch. Mounted the rings properly to the rail and torqued to 65 in/lbs, leveled the scope and torqued the rings to 15 in/lbs, went to the range and suddenly it was shooting great. Who would have thunk it! haha

    Small errors seem to be capable of causing pretty damn bad performance.
     
    Are you sure all the screw's weren't a bit loose? I'd think that having 3 of 4 locked down would still keep that base down just fine.

    I have a video of the base movement when under pressure. Let me see if I can post.
     
    Had a heavy Razor 56mm take a hit in a short fall, knocked my Badger 20moa rail loose on an LRI Rem700 build.
    Moved to an Impact action after that.

    I like those actions and the integral base. Seems like a much less problematic approach. The ARC actions are interesting too.
     
    A GIF of the movement is attached. Appreciate any commentary. I am applying about 75-100 pounds of pressure. I am rock climber with strong fingers.

    movement2.gif
     
    Its really incredible how very small weaknesses in mounting a scope can result is such poor performance.

    My buddy was complaining that his AR-10 gun was spraying bullets all over the place during a recent three gun training clinic.

    I asked him how he mounted his scope...the reply was "I put it on the rail and tightened everything" sigh Didn't know about pushing the rings forward and tight against the pic rail and didn't use torque wrenches at all.

    He brought the gun over prior to a trip to range. As hard as I tried, I could not feel any looseness in the mount. Nonetheless, pulled it off and started from scratch. Mounted the rings properly to the rail and torqued to 65 in/lbs, leveled the scope and torqued the rings to 15 in/lbs, went to the range and suddenly it was shooting great. Who would have thunk it! haha

    Small errors seem to be capable of causing pretty damn bad performance.


    Two very experienced shooters looked at my system and found nothing wrong as did I. Its very subtle until it isn't.
     
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    Here is what it was doing at the zero range with the base loose. Two different aim points with good fundamentals. I blamed myself.

    fustrration.jpg
     
    Here is what it does now that its bedded and torqued.
     

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