ZF41

[Richard Walter]

This BYF45 code rifle with ZF41 was an attempt by the Germans to extend the range of an above average marksman. Issue began in 1941. It was a dim, complex little scope with long eye relief that attached to a dovetail machined into a special rear sight.
The example shown is a vet bring back captured at the Mauser factory. It has an emergency derivative white glue laminate stock. ( normal stocks were glued with a phenolic red glue that was much stronger). It is also unusual as it is one of several guns known to have been struck with a broken firing proof on the left receiver ring. There are now many fakes on the market. Very few matching rigs exist. The numbered scope came in a numbered can with accessories. The brushes are very scarce. Pictures aren’t great it’s buried in the safe.

 

[RTH1800]

That is very nice. Thank you for posting it.
I read in a book by a German sniper that it was not highly regarded as being useful among the snipers on the eastern front. He preferred the Russian sniper rifle to any 98 sniper due to less recoil and high number of rounds fired IIRC. Sepp Allerberger? Something like that name anyway.
Wonderful piece for a collector, thanks again.

 

[pmclaine]

My local shop had two of these. Optics were dark being indoors as I was checking them out but it seemed it would be good to have your best platoon shooter equipped with one for the shot you really needed to be made.

DMR before DMR was cool.

 

[sport10990]

Richard,

Here is a picture of my BYF44 ZF41. Amazingly I found this at one of my local hardware stores about a month or so ago. It's one of those old school hardware stores from like the 60's that's ran by good ol southern boys that sell guns as well that you just don't really find anymore. I was amazed to find it. After inspecting it, every component of the rifle was all matching and I did not hesitate to buy it. Unfortunately, it was scopeless but I found an unnumbered mount, can, and the scope for all a pretty good price. I have an original sling on the way. It is most likely a GI bringback as it has a duffel cut right behind the rear band but you can't tell. It's in great shape and a true survivor.

 

[RTH1800]

Looks great, thanks!

 

[sandwarrior]

Richard,

Here is a picture of my BYF44 ZF41. Amazingly I found this at one of my local hardware stores about a month or so ago. It's one of those old school hardware stores from like the 60's that's ran by good ol southern boys that sell guns as well that you just don't really find anymore. I was amazed to find it. After inspecting it, every component of the rifle was all matching and I did not hesitate to buy it. Unfortunately, it was scopeless but I found an unnumbered mount, can, and the scope for all a pretty good price. I have an original sling on the way. It is most likely a GI bringback as it has a duffel cut right behind the rear band but you can't tell. It's in great shape and a true survivor.

Those old stores are as valuable now as the rifles they used to sell out of the cardboard barrels.

 

[sport10990]

Those old stores are as valuable now as the rifles they used to sell out of the cardboard barrels.

Yeah its an awesome old school hardware store that has taxidermy and everything on one side and every now and then they get some cool rifles in.

 

[Richard Walter]

Richard,

Here is a picture of my BYF44 ZF41. Amazingly I found this at one of my local hardware stores about a month or so ago. It's one of those old school hardware stores from like the 60's that's ran by good ol southern boys that sell guns as well that you just don't really find anymore. I was amazed to find it. After inspecting it, every component of the rifle was all matching and I did not hesitate to buy it. Unfortunately, it was scopeless but I found an unnumbered mount, can, and the scope for all a pretty good price. I have an original sling on the way. It is most likely a GI bringback as it has a duffel cut right behind the rear band but you can't tell. It's in great shape and a true survivor.

That is an unusual find for a hardware store! Can you show some more pictures like the receiver code? There were some rare makers like AX, AR. Please share what you can.congrads!

 

[sport10990]

That is an unusual find for a hardware store! Can you show some more pictures like the receiver code? There were some rare makers like AX, AR. Please share what you can.congrads!

 

[sport10990]

 

[sport10990]

Rich,

Yeah pretty awesome old hardware store. You don't find em like that anymore. I couldn't break the rifle down there at the shop but they assured me all matching and my family and them go way back so I knew if there was a problem I could come back. But...broke it down, everything matched. Stock, handguards, firing pin, sight (even the sliding part of the rear sight), even the trigger matched with "98." The scope base also has the correct waffen code for BYF (you can see it in the 2nd pic) and the stock has the proper cuts for a factory ZF41 so you know it definitely isn't some bubba job. All in all, I walked out of the shop with it for $1450. Spent about another 800 and found an unnumbered can, unnumbered mount, and a scope with crystal clear glass and its done. I do have an original sling on the way.

 

[sandwarrior]

Rich,

Yeah pretty awesome old hardware store. You don't find em like that anymore. I couldn't break the rifle down there at the shop but they assured me all matching and my family and them go way back so I knew if there was a problem I could come back. But...broke it down, everything matched. Stock, handguards, firing pin, sight (even the sliding part of the rear sight), even the trigger matched with "98." The scope base also has the correct waffen code for BYF (you can see it in the 2nd pic) and the stock has the proper cuts for a factory ZF41 so you know it definitely isn't some bubba job. All in all, I walked out of the shop with it for $1450. Spent about another 800 and found an unnumbered can, unnumbered mount, and a scope with crystal clear glass and its done. I do have an original sling on the way.

I was about to ask how much you got it for, then read this post. For that rifle in that condition is a pretty good buy. Most thought it was top dollar a few years ago, but it won't be long and it'll be pennies on the dollar. The rare ones are even rarer now as most are in collections. And, the ones we all saw stuffed into cardboard barrels selling for anywhere from $29.99-129.99 are all gone. A lot of gems in those piles. Just not many knew it.

Anyhow, nice find! Glad you were in a position to get it. If you get a chance, we'd love to see it on the range and some groups out of it!

 

[sport10990]

I was about to ask how much you got it for, then read this post. For that rifle in that condition is a pretty good buy. Most thought it was top dollar a few years ago, but it won't be long and it'll be pennies on the dollar. The rare ones are even rarer now as most are in collections. And, the ones we all saw stuffed into cardboard barrels selling for anywhere from $29.99-129.99 are all gone. A lot of gems in those piles. Just not many knew it.

Anyhow, nice find! Glad you were in a position to get it. If you get a chance, we'd love to see it on the range and some groups out of it!

Gunny,

Yes I did shoot it prior to acquiring the scope but it was with corrosive Turkish ammo and I figured I couldn't do that anymore. A ZF41 is rare but not super rare, but finding an all matching one I have been told now makes it rare, so shooting that corrosive ammo was too risky. I now have received 400 rounds of non corrosive 8mm 196gr ball ammo where the Turkish was 150gr so probably next weekend I will actually sight in the scope. I thought it was too risky to shoot corrosive ammo through a rifle like this and also not the same weight of bullet it was designed for. I felt like a got a pretty damn good deal on it because before I bought it, I posted on some groups and forums and once I told everyone I bought it, I had multiple people asking me if I wanted to make a quick 700 dollar profit. I told them no thanks, this one will probably go with me until I'm too old then get passed down.

 

[htowncoog]

Richard,

Here is a picture of my BYF44 ZF41. Amazingly I found this at one of my local hardware stores about a month or so ago. It's one of those old school hardware stores from like the 60's that's ran by good ol southern boys that sell guns as well that you just don't really find anymore. I was amazed to find it. After inspecting it, every component of the rifle was all matching and I did not hesitate to buy it. Unfortunately, it was scopeless but I found an unnumbered mount, can, and the scope for all a pretty good price. I have an original sling on the way. It is most likely a GI bringback as it has a duffel cut right behind the rear band but you can't tell. It's in great shape and a true survivor.

What a great find! Post some pics when you go to the range with your new ammo. Congrats on that find!

 

[sandwarrior]

I was going to say about the Turkish ammo, that while it's corrosive, it's no big deal if you clean the rifle right after you shoot it. Some say hot soapy water. I don't necessarily agree with that as water can be a conduit for all kinds of corrosion to happen.

I use bore foam. I fill not only the barrel, but the chamber also, as I pull out the feeder tube from filling the barrel. That will neutralize the corrosive compound the primer puts out just like water does. However, it does not leave a potential residue like water in many places does.

Let the bore foam sit in your barrel a half hour or so, and it wipes that barrel CLEAN. I push it out with the correct size jags and patches. I also use a coated rod. I have Dewey and Montana Extreme.

 

[pmclaine]

Water is a necessary solvent to remove corrosive salts. WWII GI bore cleaner has water as an ingredient in addition to coal tar and other poisons.

Use boiling hot water down your bore guide. It will quickly wash out the salts and dry almost instantly.

Oil as per usual.

Nothing scary about shooting corrosive in a bolt gun.....I avoid it in anything that operates on gas.

 

[sandwarrior]

Water is a necessary solvent to remove corrosive salts. WWII GI bore cleaner has water as an ingredient in addition to coal tar and other poisons.

Use boiling hot water down your bore guide. It will quickly wash out the salts and dry almost instantly.

Oil as per usual.

Nothing scary about shooting corrosive in a bolt gun.....I avoid it in anything that operates on gas.

Penetrating oil removes and neutralizes corrosive salts better than water. I do agree that a gas system is more prone to the effects of corrosive salts. You have to get oil back through it to neutralize them. Take the whole thing apart is a better way, but not always feasible in the time you might have. Or, have the tooling to get completely apart and cleaned.

Water in and of itself will not neutralize corrosive salts. think ocean water. Salts dissolve in water but don't go away. Fresh water flushes them but the residue left is still active. Oil will neutralize them.

I will say, one of the times I've used water is when there is a ton of carbon and crud that has to be removed. We saturated the weapon with WD-40 or Kroil, let it sit 15 min. then ran hot water through it. The oil loosened up the baked carbon and the hot water kept the oil fluid and flushed it out. We then coated the weapon completely in oil.

 

[pmclaine]

Penetrating oil removes and neutralizes corrosive salts better than water. I do agree that a gas system is more prone to the effects of corrosive salts. You have to get oil back through it to neutralize them. Take the whole thing apart is a better way, but not always feasible in the time you might have. Or, have the tooling to get completely apart and cleaned.

Water in and of itself will not neutralize corrosive salts. think ocean water. Salts dissolve in water but don't go away. Fresh water flushes them but the residue left is still active. Oil will neutralize them.

I will say, one of the times I've used water is when there is a ton of carbon and crud that has to be removed. We saturated the weapon with WD-40 or Kroil, let it sit 15 min. then ran hot water through it. The oil loosened up the baked carbon and the hot water kept the oil fluid and flushed it out. We then coated the weapon completely in oil.

We will agree to disagree.

Call me the "Waterboy".

Some ratio of water and Ballistol (1:1 in my case) is your friend in the absence of surplus WWII stink asswater based bore cleaner.

 

[chasedeer]

Really nice find ,I agree water is a simple way to remove corrosive salt.

 

[Richard Walter]

That is a very nice example. Looks almost unused. Nothing fishy. These guns are highly faked as are the scopes , mounts and even cans. The scopes are complex and dim . Reproduction adjusting tools are available on eBay for the scopes.
If you have a scope and wish to zero it to the rifle I can tell you how! Good luck

 

[Richard Walter]

I will add this on just in case I don’t get back for a while...
to adjust the ZF-41,remove the front sight shade if present. The objective has a slot on the front on each side. Using the back of a butter knife, loosten the front objective lock ring about a 1/4 turn CCR. Twist the sleeve on the objective barrel to expose the screw holes. Remove the screws to reveal the adjuster rings. They are eccentric adjusters and can be rotated using finish nails of the correct diameter. One for up and down, the other from side to side. Using the factory iron sights at a known distance, and rifle placed in a suitable stand. Match the center post in the scope to the iron sight by moving the adjuster rings. Slowly tighten the front objective ring and verify alignment with iron sights.

 

[Richard Walter]

That was 1/4 turn CCW. This procedure is similar to bore sighting and assumes your iron sights are close. You can fine tune with live fire. Many original scopes have lenses that have turned very cloudy. There is no practical way to clean these. This tiny scope contains 12 lenses, some of which are glued together. The glue turns opaque rendering them useless . The repop scopes may at least be clear while new and adjust the same way.
The concept of the sharpshooter rifle fell between two stools and was not exactly a success

 

[rcnpthfndr]

gorgeous rifles. I have an AR42 ZF41 rifle but need a scope.

 

[sport10990]

All, I finally got the rifle sighted in. Yes it was a pain in the ass. But finally got it done. I was ringing steel consistently at 200 and 300 yards no problems. A lot of people say the ZF41 is crap. I disagree. It made target acquisition much faster and easier.

 

[sandwarrior]

All, I finally got the rifle sighted in. Yes it was a pain in the ass. But finally got it done. I was ringing steel consistently at 200 and 300 yards no problems. A lot of people say the ZF41 is crap. I disagree. It made target acquisition much faster and easier.

This begs the question as to how good the training was on these rifles before they got issued?

I've heard a number of good shooters say they shoot fine. I've shot them, and they shot well. Scout length scopes aren't my thing, but with some shooting them, you can learn to do well with them.

 

[Richard Walter]

This begs the question as to how good the training was on these rifles before they got issued?

I've heard a number of good shooters say they shoot fine. I've shot them, and they shot well. Scout length scopes aren't my thing, but with some shooting them, you can learn to do well with them.

Great news! These scopes had their critics but the Germans made a large number of them. They must have filled the desired need. Any aide in dispatching the enemy when your greatly outnumbered must be exploited. They are a very rugged piece of equipment.