Pope Death Watch... WITH A PRIZE!!! Quart of Maple Syrup to the winner!
- By cgbills
- The Bear Pit
- 757 Replies
Actually no I am not a Baptist or Methodist, and the critique of Mormonism is not unique to just baptists or Methodists. Rather all biblically based denominations and the church throughout time are critical of Mormonism and Mormon adjacent beliefs. You are being dismissive of the fact that every Christian denomination thinks the Mormons are heretical and not Christians. This is not just a phenomenon of mean brainwashing Methodist or Baptist pastors, no Christian denomination actually thinks Mormons are Christian.You kind of sound like a Methodist or a Baptist, In my experience they are usually the ones most on the hateful side to folks that don't follow their specific dogmas. I don't blame them too much, they are usually propagandized by their pastors and leaders...
It's sad because our Church is probably the most understanding and accepting of other denominations of any Church you'll find.
(Plus, you are kind of repeating a bunch of kid level, anti-stuff they teach their children on "hate the xxx" instruction days. Most of which is pretty laughable since it's so off). We always know when that time of the year rolls around because their kids will be going around school berating our kids about how they are going to hell and such, it would be laughable if it wasn't so sad that others teach their kids hate.
I'll just say that in my opinion, the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are the most Christian Christians of all Christians.
We work hard to help all who are living, who have ever lived or will ever live to come unto Jesus Christ if they have true desire.
Hate all you want, it won't stop our work of bringing the gospel of Jesus Christ to the whole world.
Whenever you are ready to put aside the misinformation and hate propaganda you have been taught and are interested in knowing about the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then you'll find some kind and caring members of our Church ready to meet with you and teach you and discuss and explain things with you.
Who knows, perhaps in time you'll find the Truth of the Restored Gospel and we'll be happy to welcome you into our congregation to join with us in the work of Gathering Israel and serving Jesus Christ.
Additionally just saying the things I brought up are childish is strawmaning. All of what I said is in fact in Mormon doctrine and texts and you do not address any of them or attempt to refute them. Let’s go through some of it.
First let’s look at the issues the Mormon church has historically. Smith claims scripture was corrupted over time and after Jesus. This is easily historically falsified with the Dead Sea Scrolls that date to the 300s BC. The great Isaiah scroll for example matches almost word for word what we have today in the Bible. However, it does not match the translations that Smith made. Additionally, Smith’s corruption claims fall flat when we look at the textual criticism and copies of the NT text. There are only minor copying errors between the nearly 25,000 manuscripts we have and does not effect any essential doctrines and beliefs. Smiths “translations” however have significant differences with the historical manuscripts in both words and doctrines. Smith stands against the entire body of textual evidence we have that spans over 2000 years.
Next the Book of Mormon, which was supposedly given by an angle but we can no longer see the original because it went back to heaven, is highly anachronistic. An anachronism is something or someone placed outside of its correct historical time period. This happened because Smith made up things from the past and brought his current context into the narrative. Anachronisms is one of the main ways we can easily falsify a text. If the Book of Mormon was from heaven and actually told true history, it would not contain such anachronisms. Here is a quick summary of some.
Technology and Materials:
- Steel, Iron, and Metal Swords:
The Book of Mormon mentions steel, iron, and metal swords, which were not available in pre-Columbian America. - Chariots:
The text also refers to chariots, which would have been technologically advanced for the time period. - Compass (Liahona):
The Liahona, a compass-like object, is described in the Book of Mormon, though compasses were not known in pre-Columbian America. - Wheels and Chariots:
The text mentions the use of wheels and chariots, which were not known in pre-Columbian America. - Coins:
References to coins are also considered anachronistic, as pre-Columbian societies did not use coins. - Cement:
The Book of Mormon mentions the use of cement, which would have been a technology not available at the time.
- Horses, Cattle, Sheep, Goats, Swine:
These animals, which were not native to pre-Columbian America, are mentioned in the Book of Mormon. - Elephants:
The Book of Mormon mentions elephants, which were also not native to pre-Columbian America. - Wheat:
The text mentions wheat, which was not a crop that was grown in pre-Columbian America.
- Jerusalem as the Birthplace of Christ:
The Book of Mormon mentions Jerusalem as the birthplace of Christ, which is a reference to a city in the Old World and would not have been relevant to the Nephites.
- References to Malachi
The text includes references to the prophet Malachi, who lived centuries after the Book of Mormon period.
- The Holy Spirit before Christ
The Book of Mormon mentions the Holy Spirit before the birth of Christ, which is a concept that would not have been known to the Nephites. - New Testament text
The text incorporates elements of New Testament scripture, which would not have been available to the Nephites.
- Specific Vocabulary:
The text uses vocabulary that is more characteristic of 17th-century England than the pre-Columbian era. - Biblical Quotations:
The text contains direct biblical quotations that would not have been known to the Nephites.
Next we can talk about Smiths prophecies. Here are a few of them, which according to Deuteronomy 18:20-22 means he is a false prophet.
- In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy.
- In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later.
- In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy.
- In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled.
- Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
All this doesn’t even get into the wackiness and issues with his family and group of people. Ultimately he has all the markers of a cult leader.
Next to theology. To be a Christian one must believe in who Jesus claimed to be and believe what he taught. Mormon theology is veiled in Christian language and uses vailed Christian theology, but when you go deeper completely contradicts biblical Christianity, things Jesus taught, and who Jesus claimed to be. Here are some of the biggest heresies
Deity of Christ. According to official Mormon doctrine, Jesus is the first spirit child conceived and begotten by Heavenly Father and one of his many wives. Jesus progressed through obedience to the status of a god (prior to his incarnation). Heavenly Father subsequently had many more spirit children. Mormons believe even Satan (Lucifer) is a spirit brother of Jesus. As explained in the Mormon publication Ensign, “Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother.”
Original Fall. Mormons maintain that prior to the fall, Adam and Eve were not mortal, which they redefine to mean “able to bear children.” Thus, Mormons redefine the fall as “necessary and glorious,” for by it the “pre-existent” progeny of Father God and Mother God could receive bodies and begin an eternal progression by which they too may become what God is. In the words of the fifth Mormon president, Lorenzo Snow, “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.”
Canon of Scripture. According to the Book of Mormon, the Bible is incomplete, having lost substantial portions throughout its transmission over time. Not only so, but Joseph Smith had the unmitigated gall to delete arbitrarily the Song of Solomon, alter scores of biblical passages, and write himself into the Scriptures in his “corrected translation” of Genesis! Moreover, Mormons subscribe to “ongoing revelation” by modern-day church prophets, whose words become as binding as their Mormon quad (the Holy Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price). Within the maze of Mormonism, one can find living prophets contradicting dead prophets and LDS teachings once official (or quasi-official) that are no longer considered credible.
Trinity. Mormons worship three “separate and distinct” gods. Said Smith, “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.” Not only so, but Smith taught that God Himself was once merely human: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens.”
Resurrection. Mormons believe Christ’s resurrection did nothing but guarantee that everyone, regardless of their beliefs, will be raised from the dead with the opportunity to pursue their own course of salvation. Murderers and unrepentant whoremongers attain the telestial heaven; lukewarm Mormons, religious people, and those who accept the Mormon gospel in the spirit world enter the terrestrial heaven; and temple Mormons go to the celestial heaven. Only those who are sealed in secret temple rituals, however, make it to the third level of the celestial kingdom and become gods of their own planets.
Incarnation. In Mormon lore Jesus was first conceived a spirit child by Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, and then “begotten in flesh” when Heavenly Father had sex with the Virgin Mary. Said Mormon president and prophet Ezra Taft Benson, “Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father.” Mormon apostle Bruce McConkie left no ambiguity: “Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.”
New Creation. Mormons teach that one’s lot in the afterlife (post- mortality) will reflect one’s obedience to the laws of Mormonism in this life. As such the Mormon road to godhood (new creation) is arduous. A Mormon must not only have faith but exhibit perfect obedience to the law, including faithful participation in LDS temple rituals (marriage, baptisms for the dead, etc.). In the words of Joseph Fielding Smith, “To enter the celestial kingdom and obtain exaltation it is necessary that the whole law be kept.
Eschatology. Mormons believe that when America’s government in 1890. However, by virtue of secret temple ceremonies, Mormon crumbles amid social turmoil, economic instability, and religious strife, the Mormon Church will step in to restore economic security. This will ultimately lead to the return of Jesus Christ, who will set up a one-thousand-year global theocracy based in Jackson County, Missouri. Mormons will subsequently reign with Christ, and everyone will be confronted with Mormonism as the one true religion. Smith alleged God had told him the return of Christ would take place before he was eighty-five years of age.
I could continue to go on, but today I was not planning on writing a dissertation on the heresy of the Mormon church today. But to sum it up, you cannot just push away the criticism of the Mormon church as somehow childish or just the result of angry Baptists. There are very real and deep issues with Mormon theology and history, which run completely counter to true Christianity.
