Approaching the line?

mosin46 said:

pray for increased solar storms. they took out even telegraph lines back in 19th cent. be interesting to see if AI can survive same level of power.

Click to expand...

Not even close to survivable. Another full scale Carrington event will zorch 50 ton transformers and knock planes out of the sky. AI will have zero chance of surviving because there I’ll be no electricity!

Sirhr

The idea of trades being insulated from AI is shortsighted and myopic at best.

If even a marginal amount of white collar jobs are removed that means trade jobs are also reduced because the disposable income isn’t there for custom homes and the resultant infrastructure. AI doesn’t have to take your job for you to be affected - it only has to reduce the disposable income of one’s customers and the investment ROI of corporate investors to make a large impact on the trades. Why no one can look beyond the horizon to see this is beyond me.

But there is another aspect to this: AI doesn’t have to take YOUR job - your industry can taper off because AI reduces the NEED for your job because there isn’t demand for it. Everyone is talking about jobs in therms of the current capitalist environment; that’s a double edged sword. Even if AI doesn’t affect you directly it will affect you indirectly due to the reduced income of customers and demand. This is coming from someone who is involved with the integration of AI into autonomous systems. You are not insulated, and you are only looking at immediate impacts.

Regarding machine shops and welding: that technology is already in place and being sold into the market. As the tech improves those jobs will be impacted. This is because margins will be squeezed and the needs of the company will require that AI be used to maintain profitability.

Those who are predicting unemployment are correct. It doesn’t require immediate job replacement, a reduction in the demand of trade labor will be enough to further the demand for AI. Remember, the Great Depression had only around 20% unemployment. And they didn’t have nearly the amount of household debt we currently have nor the devaluation of the dollar. To ignore the macroeconomic aspects and implications is foolishness. Or ignorance.

45-90 said:

Legal definition is up to the politicians of the state.... those with the least common sense in all of society.
The 510 whisper was in its orginial form a rimless bottlenecked cartridge, but cut down, it lost the bottleneck and then thinned to form a neck, leaving a sharp tiny shoulder to headspace off of.
So it's now, not a straight wall cartridge, but a bottle neck is kind of stretching things...but it is on its surface a bottlenecks cartridge.
But a .510 cal 300 gr Barnes at 2800 fps would be a nice Iowa deer cartridge, much better than a sub at 1000 fps.
I know it was designed as a subsonic round...and is one of the best...but its light supers are very powerful too.

Click to expand...

I think it would come down to internal dimensions and those walls are straight, but the people writing the regs have no idea.

My dumbass state also banned “50 caliber rifles” not .510 bore not 50 bmg. so a bolt action 50bmg is fine but that percussion cap hawken or a 500 s&w lever gun arent? lol.

Rancid Coolaid said:

Naw... I know that sky well, you good. If it starts turning a green tint, look for cover... ricky tick...

Click to expand...

You are not kidding about the green tint! First tornado that hit near me in North Carolina… the sky was bile green and the air was so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Seen that three times. Every time a bad tornado!

Yet still never “seen”’a tornado.

Sirhr

doubloon said:

Averages are fine and all

Click to expand...

All 600 data points are depicted there, for you analytical pleasure.

doubloon said:

In all this testing is it possible to figure out which unit produces the most accurate results shot to shot?

Click to expand...

In general, for that data set, considering the variability of the ammunition, the resulting disparity among units, and the inherent precision limitation of these units, no, it's not really possible to tell which unit is correct.

However, it's relatively well proven that velocity ladders are snake oil, so being closer to "truth" than the average +/-1.75fps between units realized in this preliminary test, we'd be pretty certain of our results for any given shot being of substantial value for our ballistic calculator. Easy enough to prove where is an average and whether ammo is sufficiently consistent or not. But based on the data trends, in this evaluation, either all of them are sufficient or none of them.

Found one, thanks

And every federal employee who abused one of the credit cards that supposedly racked up millions or tens of millions in bullshit charges should be fired on the spot. No question no nothing. If you use your federal credit card at a golf course or a strip club or a weekend resort, you are fired. Because you can’t be trusted.

I could live without prosecuting them because it would just cost too much money and time. But you are fired. And never never can you apply for a federal job again, that would suffice.

Now go find work in the private sector with the “I was fired from the federal government for miss using my credit card“ and see how long they last before they are digging ditches or working at Burger King. Someone’s gotta pick the melons might as well be federal workers who can’t be trusted. Put their fat asses in the field.

Fx51LP308 said:

Just to confirm - The above is not Loretta Swit but Sally Kellerman, who played Houlihan in the movie, right?

This is Loretta Swit:

Click to expand...

Maybe… lemme check. If so, I’ll correct the post

Edit: you are correct sir! Fixed

mosin46 said:

agree,in that i know nothing about construction. about medicine i do have 40+ yr hands on.
the comment that doc in the box/primary care is in danger is for sure. AI could do most of that since personal directed care is long gone. like i said
the protocols i have seen used could work for some,not all. the individual patient would need more than a basic understanding of A&P to be able to make their own decisions. tough to do just like knowing about plumbing to decide what is right to do. the stuff i did was a mix of new things and repeats of things nurses did 100s of years ago. AI/comps can't do those things and robots won't for way> 50 years. critical care has become a #s game and addressing those is where it's at. i hear that control of interventions has become restricted by comp monitoring according to pre set rules. so the role of informed personnel has been subsumed. even 15 years ago i saw the focus of care change from the patient to the computer and computer records. same in DR's office. interpretation of imaging is another place AI pushers will try and grab. modern nurses and docs are indeed setting themselves up for replacement at levels that don't still mandate hands on work. we shall see.

Click to expand...

As far as the primary care doc stuff, there was a recent study done with primary care doctors and diagnosis. They would take practicing doctors and feed them a list of symptoms and ask for a diagnosis. They had all the time they wanted to decide on the diagnosis. They fed the same symptoms to an AI program. The AI program spit out the diagnosis instantly, (as in, an answer during a single visit), and they were correct almost 90% of the time, (I think the actual number was 89%). The MD's averaged a correct diagnosis somewhere in the low 40%'s. Then they had another group of doctors who were paired with an AI program, and they gave them all the same examples. The doctors working in cooperation with the AI were correct like 46% of the time. In other words, they were arrogant enough to believe they were correct and the AI was wrong more than 50% of the time they were doing a diagnosis. That hubris has been killing people for centuries.

Now, imagine you went to work tomorrow, and for the rest of your career, you do your job correctly less than half of the time. How long would you be able to continue in your career? Oh yeah, and people die periodically because you're wrong more often than you're correct.

Admittedly, these numbers are coming from my memory, from a study I read 6 months ago or more, so I could be off on some of them.

Yes, It’s primarily for hunting. Max range, 400-500 yards. Mostly under 300. Lots of trees so it looks pretty dark with shadows during the last 30-45 minutes of hunting light.

One thing for sure, it's not the Spuhrs.

Sorry, low hanging fruit on that one.

If this was right side wind I would take you up on it!

CM

Just gonna drop this here as I was just talking the other day about how a gov can use some of this new found crap for evil. Say they don’t like you, make an AI video of you doing something you never did, yet it looks legit to your peers. Also interesting that in the advent of shit being harder to hide, think corruption, AI has a boom that makes it that much harder to tell fake from reality.

Login to view embedded media

TheOE800 said:

Right? What’s the catch or are Wilcox and Envision ripping us off that badly?

Click to expand...

Yes, I think so if comparing civ units. I’m curious on the mil version though.. If the mil units is at a lower cost, I’m in it for one too. But the question is if they’re gonna be berry or non berry units. Or they have an option to order either. I think most of the high cost is due to being berry compliant. I’m wondering also if these Maztech units is berry or non berry? I mean if it is berry, that’s a ffn’ fine deal.

ruger35 said:

How are you adjusting the laser? I didn't realize you could do this and combed through the manual and didn't see it mentioned unless I skipped over it.

Click to expand...

You have to use the BDX app to make minor adjustments to the reticle. Press a button on the Kilo 10K to turn it on. Once the BDX app is open and paired to your Kilo 10K open up the laser rangefinder section which brings up the menus for your binos. In the upper right corner is the gear icon for Settings, open it up and near the bottom of the settings choices is Reticle Alignment. Open it up and you can use the arrows to move your reticle up to 5 pixels in any direction from the center. On my binos, out of the box the laser was to the left of the center. Using the duplex reticle I was able to adjust the reticle so the right side of my laser is in the middle of the reticle so now if I put the duplex on a target I know the laser ranging off my target and not the ground around it.

CCISERTDAWG said:

View attachment 8698131

Click to expand...

A 1001 uses also!

Mike

I’m using 26 grains in LC brass with 75 gr ELD @ 2.495 COAL with Wolf SRM primers.

Barrel is 26 “ PVA Wylde chamber. Getting 2937 fps average; 10.3 S.D. For 10 shots. Same drops out to 1000 yards as 140 gr 6.5 CM.

Someone said this would be around 62k psi using GRT.

I'm working now to compile some data from one of my preliminary comparisons depicted above. I had to eliminate two units from the test to prevent co-channel interference, but while I was conducting the interference test, I shot a 100rnd string of 22LR ammo (rot gut stuff, just for preliminary evaluation of the method) across 3 pairs of LabRadar LX, Garmin Xero C1, and Athlon Rangecraft Velocity Pro's.

Overall, for 100rnds, after my first few outings with the Athlons, this dataset was much more compelling than I expected. We can see here, the ES and SD's are relatively similar, the ES's appear to vary more than they really are, since the numbers are so ridiculously big for this terrible ammo, but 231.7 vs. 242.3 is still only a ~4% spread, and 32.7SD vs. 34.3SD is only ~4.8% spread, and considering this ammo, I'm not terribly disappointed at this point. More rimfire and similar centerfire testing to come which may confirm or correct that observation.



I expected in the outset of designing this experiment that I would see relatively persistent offsets between units - meaning one unit would read higher than another, or lower, regularly. This persisted both within each brand (less so for the Athlons) as well as between the 3 brands. Reading the data itself isn't important, but I applied a heat map to the data for all 6 units over 100 rounds to reflect which units read the highest speed readings for each shot (highlighted green below) vs. the lowest speed (highlighted red below). The two left columns are Garmin units, two center columns are the readings from LabRadar LX's, and the right most two columns are the readings from my two Athlons. For an overwhelming majority of shots, the LabRadar LX's displayed the higher speed readings with the Athlons displaying the lower speed readings, with the Garmins floating in the middle:

--> One or both of the LabRadar LX's represented 90 of the fastest shots out of 100, and only ONE out of 100 shots did a LabRadar LX represent the slowest reading for any shot (including ties).

--> One or both of the Athlon untis represented the SLOWEST velocity reading for 89 out of 100 shots, and only represented 10 of the fastest readings (including ties).

--> One or both of the Garmins represented mid-range readings between the other brands 85 out of 100 shots, only representing the fastest shots for 5 out of 100 (including ties), and only represented the slowest readings 10 times out of 100 shots.

So 90% of the time, the LX was faster than the other two brands, and 89% of the time the Athlon was slower than the other two brands. The LX's averaged 0.8fps faster than the Garmins, which averaged 1.2fps faster than the Athlons.

***Note: Reading the specific data here isn't so important as the heat mapping - majority red in a column shows that unit reads slower more often, majority green shows that unit reads faster more often.***



Comparing each brand to itself, there was also an offset between the units, although less decisive. One of my Garmins read faster than the other for 62 of the 100 shots and only slower for 29 of the 100, with the two units matching the displayed speed for 9 shots - meaning one unit read faster than the other more than twice as often. The two Athlons agreed 21 times, then one unit displayed faster on 47 shots and only slower for 32 shots, reading faster than the other roughly 50% more often. The LabRadar LX's display to 0.01fps rather than 0.1fps, which makes it less common to see perfect agreement (and on that date, they were not operating on the same firmware version), so there were no shots for which they displayed the exact same speed, but one unit displayed higher speed 63 times and only displayed slower 37 times, so one unit read faster about 70% more often than the other.



The readings between each of the same brand were very close together. The worst spread displayed for ALL chronographs was 11.1fps, but 80% of the shots were less than 4.2fps separated. The 2 LabRadars were, on average, 2.1fps faster than the 2 Athlons and 0.8fps faster than the 2 Garmins. But within brands:

--> The 2 Garmins read within 0.54fps average from one another, never more than 1.9fps apart.

--> The 2 LX's averaged within 0.83fps of one another, never more than 3.9fps apart.

--> The Athlons averaged 1.1fps apart, never more than 6.5fps.

So this suggests, at least in this test, the Garmins are closer together than the LabRadars by ~50% tighter, while the Garmins are about 96% closer together on average than the Athlons. But overall, whether the average is within +/-0.5fps or +/-1.1fps, eh, not a huge difference in practical application performance.



Unfortunately, the ammo I chose was just terrible, so the noise from one shot to the next really drowns out the difference between each chronograph reading for each respective shot. Really difficult to display the dataset with only ~3.5fps average spread between each chronograph, but 242fps spread between the fastest and slowest shot registered. This is all 6 trends depicted together, you can see they track very well up and down for the macro result, but there's slight feathering and a few crossing of the trends at the peaks and valleys where the few fps between the readings are revealed:


In an attempt to better visualize the differences between units, and the prevailing offset trends, I ranked the shots by average velocity across the units, then charted the trendlines for a smaller velocity window, choosing 1200-1220 relatively randomly - it's a small enough velocity window to let the ~3.5fps spread between shots reveal itself in the ~20fps window, but still have ~25-30 shots for comparison. So here is a ranked velocity depiction (by average velocity) of 30 rounds.

--> The pink and purple trends floating typically near the bottom edge are the Athlon units
--> The light and dark green trends floating typically in the middle are the Garmin units
--> The peach & orange trends riding predominantly on the top are the LX units

We can see the relative noise, but also see the prevailing offset trends, and the near-parallel tracking together of all of units as the ranked velocity increased up and up. Tighter together in some spots, looser and noisier in some spots, but just randomly so, since this represents a non-chronological series of shots.



Overall, the results were very consistent for all 3 brands, all 6 units, and the expected behavior was demonstrated. Without yet going into volatility evaluation, I'm glad to have this info as I move this weekend and next week into further exploration.

Just my opinion.....but "rimfire scopes" are like "hunting scopes".....spec'd and sold to a very specific end-user and use case. The low to no information and low to limited use kind.

The typical end-user of a modern target scope is a high requirement/high information end-user. We use what we use because we plan to push it's intended use. Not just in utility but durability.

If you don't feel you are in need of equipment to fit that latter use case.....by all means get the rimfire scope.

Whitetail Buck- 1153 yards

I didn't think I was going to get out whitetail hunting this year and it was our last day of the season. Decided to make a last minute trip out and take my son out for the first time. The plan was to shoot a doe for population control and buddy wanted meat. My freezers are full due to buying half a cow this spring and harvesting a moose a couple weeks ago.

It was cold, -28*C (-18*f). I normally have a hay bail blind I put a heater in but I never put it out since I didn't think I was going for whitetail this season. With the cold we had intended to sit in the truck while we waited for something to show up.

Pulled up to my spot and with in 5 minutes this guy stepped out of the bush on the next quarter, After a quick phone call to that land owner for permission. I got out and ranged 1054 meters (1153 Yards) using my Sig 10K bino's. I still wanted to shoot a doe and let the bucks go a year but the desire to check off the list "animal over 1000" won out. My farthest was a deer at 620 ish. I do shoot a ton of steel out to 2k with this rifle.

The Bino's came up with a solution of 9.8 Mils Elevation. There was very little wind I estimated about 3-4mph which gave me 1mil of wind hold. I spun the truck around and got prone in the box, first shot hit him a bit far back so I halved my wind call and dropped the second shot in the meat locker. He didn't go more than 10 yards from the first shot and went straight down after the second.

The boy was excited and very happy to be included.
If anyone is concerned I did have orange on him to be legal. It was my old sweater so it was a dress on him and he was upset about it and wanted it off. He was only out of the truck for the 30 seconds to take this picture, I thought we were safe. I'll have to keep an eye out for stuff that fits him for next year.

Rifle is a Tikka action in a MDT HNT 26 Chassis. 26" Fluted barrel with a Terminator brake.
Chambered in 284 Win-imp, Shooting 184gr Berger Hybrid at 2850 fps. Lapua brass. N560.
Optic is an Ares BTR Gen 2, 4.5-27x in a set of Talley Modern Sporting Rings.
Ckye-pod Lightweight single pull.

I'm fairly happy and excited to be able to check that one off the list. Maybe next year if I have more time I'll put my blind out and see how close we can get them.

Thanks for reading