It’s seatbelt season again.

Well, if you don't wear a seatbelt when motoring about, you are an idiot. We can debate if the nanny state should be actively searching you out, my personal opinion is the cost is a wash, and I'd just as soon you get killed and not reproduce. Others think the cost is reduced by using coercion to get you to wear your belt, less resources expended when you inevitably crash. Of course, if I'm the paramedic that shows up to your crash and finds you sans belt, I'll go work on someone who is smarter than you. That policy right there would go a long way to cost reduction.

Of things to complain about right now, getting a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt is right up there with getting hour old coffee rather than a fresh pot.

CoryT said:

Well, if you don't wear a seatbelt when motoring about, you are an idiot. We can debate if the nanny state should be actively searching you out, my personal opinion is the cost is a wash, and I'd just as soon you get killed and not reproduce. Others think the cost is reduced by using coercion to get you to wear your belt, less resources expended when you inevitably crash. Of course, if I'm the paramedic that shows up to your crash and finds you sans belt, I'll go work on someone who is smarter than you. That policy right there would go a long way to cost reduction.

Of things to complain about right now, getting a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt is right up there with getting hour old coffee rather than a fresh pot.

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Ahh another red flagging busybody lecturing jeez SHUT UP ALREADY.

CoryT said:

Well, if you don't wear a seatbelt when motoring about, you are an idiot. We can debate if the nanny state should be actively searching you out, my personal opinion is the cost is a wash, and I'd just as soon you get killed and not reproduce. Others think the cost is reduced by using coercion to get you to wear your belt, less resources expended when you inevitably crash. Of course, if I'm the paramedic that shows up to your crash and finds you sans belt, I'll go work on someone who is smarter than you. That policy right there would go a long way to cost reduction.

Of things to complain about right now, getting a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt is right up there with getting hour old coffee rather than a fresh pot.

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It’s a personal choice and one that the government should stay out of. Ticketing someone for not wearing a belt is a money grab. Nothing is for your safety.

Your last point you made was disgusting and you should be ashamed. If you are a paramedic you shouldn’t be. You sound like a leftist snowflake as you do in all your posts in the bear pit.

All about money, little to do with "safety". Same as the ridiculous speed limits most states have to generate extra cash. I expect more motorists will be fleeced to make up for the tax dollars lost due to the Corona hoax.

Amazing how anyone that grew up 30, 40, 50 years ago is still alive today. Back when personal freedom was respected and cherished. Shit, my mom brought me and my brother home from the hospital in her lap! Somehow we and millions of others survived.

Here's something that will blow the minds of our resident nannies: sometimes I ride my motorcycle and atv without a helmet. Can you believe that? How dare I decide for myself and disregard the recommendations of the safety nazis. Freedom has a cost. So if society pays more for car insurance, health insurance, etc. so people can make their own damned decisions, I'm perfectly ok with that. Otherwise, I suggest moving to China, Iran or Venezuela where the nanny state makes all the important decisions for you.

CoryT said:

Well, if you don't wear a seatbelt when motoring about, you are an idiot. We can debate if the nanny state should be actively searching you out, my personal opinion is the cost is a wash, and I'd just as soon you get killed and not reproduce. Others think the cost is reduced by using coercion to get you to wear your belt, less resources expended when you inevitably crash. Of course, if I'm the paramedic that shows up to your crash and finds you sans belt, I'll go work on someone who is smarter than you. That policy right there would go a long way to cost reduction.

Of things to complain about right now, getting a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt is right up there with getting hour old coffee rather than a fresh pot.

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What has happened to this site? It seems like it’s infested with people that love government control anymore. I kinda like to think for myself, and do whatever the fuck I want as long as it isn’t hurting anybody else... Ever ride a motorcycle? Or is that just too dangerous?

SSG69 said:

What has happened to this site? It seems like it’s infested with people that love government control anymore. I kinda like to think for myself, and do whatever the fuck I want as long as it isn’t hurting anybody else... Ever ride a motorcycle? Or is that just too dangerous?

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Just a guess here, but probably the exact same people currently scared shitless and hiding under the bed due to the China Virus.

Back 30, 40, 50 years ago, when personal freedom was valued, and the people let the government take the powers they are using today limit personal freedoms. Now that we are in this festering mess, they are dumping the buck on the "people of today." We didn't get here 8 years or 12 years, or 20 years. Quit trying to pass the buck to another generation, we are all responsible for this situation.

I am all for personal freedom, so my choice to wear my seatbelt is not based on governmental demands. During my days of law enforcement, nearly 20 years ago, I worked in traffic crash reconstruction for a bit. I wear my belts due to what I saw. What I saw as a cop is also the reason I carry a gun everywhere I go.

nso123 said:

I am all for personal freedom, so my choice to wear my seatbelt is not based on governmental demands. During my days of law enforcement, nearly 20 years ago, I worked in traffic crash reconstruction for a bit. I wear my belts due to what I saw. What I saw as a cop is also the reason I carry a gun everywhere I go.

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Absolutely. I much appreciate your response compared to the government bootlicker that posted a ways before you. I choose to wear one most of the time and my kids do all the time. My choice.

The argument is should the government be able to force Americans to wear a seatbelt using imprisonment and up to deadly force to make them comply. Anyone with any sense understands a minor citation is enforced by the threat of violence. Don’t pay it and a warrant is issued for your arrest. Resist arrest and get beat down and drug off to prison for committing a felony. Resist enough and get shot dead. This goes for every single law. I don’t think most people understand this.

I am not against laws that punish those that take or do harm to others, but the laws that state troopers (worthless police) enforce are for revenue. There really only needs to be a handful of laws that govern society.

I don't care if you wear a seatbelt or not. I think it's a complete waste of time and resources to ticket someone for not doing so. You are right, it's a personal choice, if you want to be stupid, go right ahead.

Everything is about cost, no matter if you like it or not. The standard is your rights end where my nose begins. Throw all the punches you like, just don't hit anyone else. Not wearing a belt costs me and everyone else more money, since we end up expending more resources on you when you crash. So, not wearing a belt DOES hurt everybody else. Now, if you want to pony up all your extra costs that's fine, except most really stupid people are broke, so it comes out of everyone else's pocket. Hence the desire to make you wear your belt. It's not to take money from you to fund roads by giving you a ticket, though at least we get that when you get caught. It's not about your personal safety, neither the government nor I really care about some random individual. It's about the overall cost to society as a whole. The question comes down to what level of everyday life does government get involved to benefit society as a whole? Is this a problem that requires law enforcement effort? I don't think so, but apparently the people have voted for enough legislators that do. People get the government they deserve.

Based on your 'it's my choice', I guess you decide if you want to stop at a red light? Clearly that's an infringement of your right to travel? In fact, why do we even require you to have a license to drive at all?

I've got no love for government, and the current set of federal regulations would make the founders heads all explode. Another revolution will come along eventually and the cycle will start again, as it has since we gathered in caves and will continue until we go extinct or somehow evolve out of it.

Hopefully you don’t have an attitude that the peace officers don’t agree with and they “smell pot”. Good luck getting your property back

CoryT said:

Well, if you don't wear a seatbelt when motoring about, you are an idiot. We can debate if the nanny state should be actively searching you out, my personal opinion is the cost is a wash, and I'd just as soon you get killed and not reproduce. Others think the cost is reduced by using coercion to get you to wear your belt, less resources expended when you inevitably crash. Of course, if I'm the paramedic that shows up to your crash and finds you sans belt, I'll go work on someone who is smarter than you. That policy right there would go a long way to cost reduction.

Of things to complain about right now, getting a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt is right up there with getting hour old coffee rather than a fresh pot.

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You must be from Seattle or another smarter than thou place, the FD there thinks they're better than most but hold up a lot of Construction work because they find ways to extract money for their dept...nothing but BS, like what you're pushing out of that cock licking face of yours

CoryT said:

The question comes down to what level of everyday life does government get involved to benefit society as a whole?

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Answer: Fucking none. All the state does is destroy wealth and productivity so there is no net benefit to anyone

I knew the paramedic comment would get a rise. So, you are fine with being stupid, getting more severely injured in the crash, but you are upset that someone else won't help you out of the problem you got yourself into? Where's your personal responsibility now?

When I show up to see a guy that's amputated most of his foot, I do my job and fix it. When I find out it's because he's trimming his hedges with a lawnmower and he dropped it on himself, my first thought is not "Well, lucky I was there to save this rocket scientist, he might be the guy that cures cancer!'

All It amounts to is a money grab. It the means to get you for something else and more money. Think about how things you do during the day that dont raise an eyebrow, become life altering crimes in the dark. Make a turn without signaling, drift over the line line, no problem. Do those at night and now you are a dwi suspect. And don tven get me started on the license plate light thing. They are all means to the way. They will find some reason arrest you or at the very least squeeze money out of you.

One thing to remember is to keep your eye on the ball. When seatbelt laws were initially being enforced they were called a secondary offense. That means that you couldn't be stopped for not wearing one, but could be ticketed for not wearing it if you were stopped for some primary offense, like speeding. That law was changed to make seatbelts a primary offense, giving an extra reason to be able to make a traffic stop. Now we see where the law started creeping up on folks.

I got another great idea to save lives. In fact, I stole it from leftists. Tell me what you nannies think.

All firearms must be stored AND used exclusively at BATF approved gun ranges. No more storing or using guns on your property. Penalties will range from confiscation up to and including imprisonment for non-compliance. Think of the billions of dollars saved by society in medical costs from gunshots. As a bonus, paramedics won’t have to deal with nearly as many intentional and accidental gunshots. A win-win for society.

I got more great ideas like this, all borrowed from liberals.

Ken Burton said:

You must be from Seattle or another smarter than thou place,

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And it seems your reading comprehension is non-existent. I did not even suggest that seatbelt laws were a good idea, much less a good reason for a stop. In fact I said the opposite, that they were a waste of time and resources.

I'm all for a minimum of government, the question once again, is what exactly constitutes a 'minimum'? TheD would apparently like anarchy, though I expect if he got it he'd be less pleased that he thinks. I'd be fine rolling back the clock to the 1920's or so, though we need some touchups to account for modern electronic society.

For the record.
Income tax should be eliminated, if anything is private it ought to be the contents of your wallet.
SS, Medicare and Medicaid are also no-gos. Obamacare is an abomination. Of course, we regulated the insurance and medical industry into a box, so that needs to be fixed to a real free market system. Health care is NOT a right.
Virtually all firearms laws are nonsense, and in any event in contravention of the Constitution.
I don't see anywhere in that document a provision for the government to shutdown private business, absent declaration of martial law.
On the other hand, the government clearly has an interest in securing the borders and travel to/from the US.

Traffic laws are not an infringement on your rights.

CoryT said:

And it seems your reading comprehension is non-existent. I did not even suggest that seatbelt laws were a good idea, much less a good reason for a stop. In fact I said the opposite, that they were a waste of time and resources.

I'm all for a minimum of government, the question once again, is what exactly constitutes a 'minimum'? TheD would apparently like anarchy, though I expect if he got it he'd be less pleased that he thinks. I'd be fine rolling back the clock to the 1920's or so, though we need some touchups to account for modern electronic society.

For the record.
Income tax should be eliminated, if anything is private it ought to be the contents of your wallet.
SS, Medicare and Medicaid are also no-gos. Obamacare is an abomination. Of course, we regulated the insurance and medical industry into a box, so that needs to be fixed to a real free market system. Health care is NOT a right.
Virtually all firearms laws are nonsense, and in any event in contravention of the Constitution.
I don't see anywhere in that document a provision for the government to shutdown private business, absent declaration of martial law.
On the other hand, the government clearly has an interest in securing the borders and travel to/from the US.

Traffic laws are not an infringement on your rights.

Click to expand...

You sure? So me being stopped at a roadblock and interrogated to see if I’m drunk or up to no good when I’ve done nothing wrong is good with you?

Arc Light said:

I got another great idea to save lives. In fact, I stole it from leftists. Tell me what you nannies think.

All firearms must be stored AND used exclusively at BATF approved gun ranges. No more storing or using guns on your property. Penalties will range from confiscation up to and including imprisonment for non-compliance. Think of the billions of dollars saved by society in medical costs from gunshots. As a bonus, paramedics won’t have to deal with nearly as many intentional and accidental gunshots. A win-win for society.

I got more great ideas like this, all borrowed from liberals.

Click to expand...

And no doubt many in the current government service think that way, though I imagine that many would just eliminate firearms altogether. At least there is a Bill of Rights item that covers that. Driving a car however, is a privilege, not a right. I don't see where the government is prohibited from regulation in that arena, perhaps you could point me to the relevant section? If not, they could require you to wear a helmet even in your car.

All the roads need to go back to how they used to be: Private ventures you pay a toll to travel on. The government needs to get out of the infrastructure business and have zero place enacting or enforcing any laws on the roadways. Then we could all drive as fast as we want and however and in whatever we please.

Random traffic stops are not traffic LAWS. DWI may be an offense, but I don't see anyway to justify random stops of traffic anymore than stop and frisk was acceptable. Random stops are not supported by probable cause, despite the fact that there are bars in the area.

Redmanss said:

All the roads need to go back to how they used to be: Private ventures you pay a toll to travel on. The government needs to get out of the infrastructure business and have zero place enacting or enforcing any laws on the roadways. Then we could all drive as fast as we want and however and in whatever we please.

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Subject now to the property owners whims and regulations. Not sure that would work out for the best. Unless of course you don't like personal property rights? This anarchy thing is not all it's cracked up to be.

CoryT said:

Random traffic stops are not traffic LAWS. DWI may be an offense, but I don't see anyway to justify random stops of traffic anymore than stop and frisk was acceptable. Random stops are not supported by probable cause, despite the fact that there are bars in the area.

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Yet this abuse by police happens daily.

Few motorists realize the Supreme Court has ruled you do not have to stop at these roadblocks. You can turn around and refuse interrogation.

Abuse of rights happens at every level constantly. Absent enough push back by the people, it only gets worse, not better. Get a group together at the next city counsel meeting and demand such road blocks be eliminated. Vote out those who resist and replace them with someone who understands. That's how the system works.

I expect it's rather a bit too late for that, the system appears to have collapsed. Most anyone who runs for office now actually should not be allowed to have the job. We'd be better off selecting Congress and the President by randomly picking names from the phonebook. You get two terms max in Federal service, then it's back to private life for you. Retire from Congress? What a joke. It's NOT a career.

Are the police ACTIVELY ticketing people for no seatbelt or is it if pulled over for another violation? I'd much rather them pull people over for driving 75 in my 35 neighborhood or texting driving down the interstate weaving from one lane to the other.

As a rule, it's added on with another violation. Some areas may in fact stop you for JUST that, though it's a bit unusual. You can get stopped for using a handheld cellphone while driving, that's probably a more common stop, since it's a bit more obvious that the presence of a belt.

CoryT said:

And no doubt many in the current government service think that way, though I imagine that many would just eliminate firearms altogether. At least there is a Bill of Rights item that covers that. Driving a car however, is a privilege, not a right. I don't see where the government is prohibited from regulation in that arena, perhaps you could point me to the relevant section? If not, they could require you to wear a helmet even in your car.

Click to expand...

Fuck that privilege nonsense. I pay for the roads. I pay the city and county taxes that build and fix maintain them. I pay the salaries of the officials who regulate the hell out of them. Heck I pay the salaries of the crooks that patrol them. It is not a privilege to drive. I pay for it all. You are a bootlicker.

Certain traffic violations are in fact infringements. Many are used to interrogate and “see what you are up to.” Cops absolutely will stop you for not wearing a seatbelt. They will also stop you for dark tint and many other bullshit reasons if they choose.

I pay for my own insurance.
Far from all do or have it.
I pay for my vehicles.
I pay for the upkeep of these roads.
I pay the taxes on my vehicle and the fuel that goes in it.
I pay the taxes for the pay for the "someones" to patrol it.
I pay the taxes for those who instruct those who patrol the roads.
Same bunch tells me it's a privilege to drive.
Seat belt laws are a result of insurance companies lobbying for less risk coverage.
Everybody that saw their insurance lower after the law/laws were passed raise their hand...
I live in a state that requires car/truck insurance.
Seems just like the same circle jerk.
Everyone that saw their premiums drop after they did this raise your hand...
Strange they expect me to keep full coverage when it's the "law" that everyone has insurance.


R

CoryT said:

Subject now to the property owners whims and regulations. Not sure that would work out for the best. Unless of course you don't like personal property rights?

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You missed the sarcasm bro. My point is people want the infrastructure and will even begrudgingly pay their taxes paid for it, but they want to use it in any which way they choose. It's like going to the national forest, camping at the lake, and digging your latrine on the bank of the waters everyone else is drawing their drinking water and fish from. Most here would be aghast at that, yet see no relation to (most) traffic laws for the safe public travel of all, both of which are government owned and paid for by our tax dollars and usage fees.

I'm a railroader and a commercial heavy crane truck driver. I drive a minimum of 5k miles a month, often more than 10k, on some of the most dangerous highways in Wyoming/Nebraska/Colorado in all seasons and conditions. I work around 37,000,000 lbs trains traveling 50mph within 4ft away from us, along with a shit ton of heavy equipment that involves a 20 minute daily briefing and numerous rebriefings in how to not get dead by quitting time. Safety is a continuous and complete endeavor for us, and my current crew hasn't had a reportable injury in over fifteen years, an absolutely stellar record in an industry where twenty years ago being a railroader was one of the most deadly jobs in the nation. And yet with all we do, driving to and from work is always the most dangerous activity of the day because it involves factors that cannot be mitigated. One benefit of the oil bust is we don't have numerous drugged up to fuck water and sand truck drivers doing 85+ mph on the roads right now, and honestly there's more than a little bit of me that is very happy about that.

Checkpoint enforcement wise of seatbelts and DUI laws, quit bitching about it on the internet and start talking to your local and state reps. Those things are unheard of where I live (they're also banned by state law), so move the fuck away or do something about it. Yes, they violate constitutional laws regarding legal search, so shit or get off the pot in your home state. The bill to allow stopping for seatbelts also failed miserably this year a week after its introduction because of a lot of calls to the lawmakers. That's how shit is done.

Wearing your seatbelts themselves? I don't care what other folks do. I would sign on today to an auto and medical insurance company that came out to say failure to wear seatbelts and/or any major traffic violations within the last 10 years causes failure of coverage, including accidents while covered. That is where we pay most, when people don't wear their seatbelts and drive recklessly, get into that accident putting them in the hospital, and for some reason it's on the rest of us to shoulder the burden of someone else's stupidity to put Humpty fucking Dumpty back together again. I wear my seatbelt, I drive the speed limit, I come to a full and complete stop in the middle of the prairie, and I even signal a lane change in the middle of the night when I haven't seen another vehicle for half an hour. I don't want to pay for other shitty drivers on my insurance, neither does most of us here either. This is America where decisions have consequences, and driving like a dumbass should mean you don't get bailed out by your insurance company when Murphy comes a calling. Make people think twice, make them sign a MOU every renewal, and that is how folks will actually consider the consequences of their shitty decisions.

Other traffic enforcement I believe in:

• Failure to buckle in kids should result in minimum three months for child endangerment. Involved in even a minor accident without the kids buckled in, that's attempted murder charges.
• DUI should result in minimum 30 days first offense, non-negotiable by the DA and whatever gay ass class they try to take to get out of it. Sentences ramp up significantly for follow-on offenses.
• Speeding (up to reckless level) should have no associated fines, and should never be a revenue source. It should be community service only. The rich don't care about a ticket, and the poor shouldn't end up in debtor's prison because they can't afford a fine. Take people's time, that gets results. Same goes for other traffic offenses, get rid of the money, punish by making them improve their community.
• Speeding in a construction zone gets you a lot of time wearing Hi-Viz on the roadside yourself while picking up trash. Let the working men and women see their kids each and every night, give them lots of room and let them have time to keep themselves safe.
• Speeding in a school zone gets a night in jail, non-negotiable, and the fine is whatever the cost of incarceration is. Next time is a month.
• Bad equipment (lights especially) should never get a ticket first time, but should always get a written warning. Pulled over again for the same after two weeks have passed, somebody needs to pick up trash on the roadside.
• Nobody under the age of 18 should be licensed to drive on public roadways.

Oh no, I got the sarcasm, that's why I added the smiley. We are on the same page, but I imagine others here though that was a fabulous idea.

The only problem with the cancellation of insurance leaving the driver on the hook is most of these types are idiots with no money or assets. When you get hit, they can't pay. That's why we needed to make insurance mandatory. Vicious circle problem. Works if you have to prove enough cash and assets to pay out if you are an idiot, but that seems unlikely. In the end it's a group problem, that's why the enforcement of what some people think are non issues. I like a bunch of your other enforcement policies, though fine vs time is mostly the same to poor folk. Put them on the road crew for a week and they end up with no job, might have been better off with the fine. Time to rich folk on the other hand is huge, I'd rather put them on the crew or in jail. Interesting problem, like cash bail. Guy can't pay, sits in jail, costing us money we never get back. Remand those that are a hazard to people, otherwise, let them go to work.

It's like background checks for a firearms purchase. What idiot came up with that? If you are so dangerous that we can't let you have a gun, and we KNOW that, why the hell are you walking around loose in the first place? Otherwise, why do I care if you buy a gun?

CoryT said:

And it seems your reading comprehension is non-existent. I did not even suggest that seatbelt laws were a good idea, much less a good reason for a stop. In fact I said the opposite, that they were a waste of time and resources.

I'm all for a minimum of government, the question once again, is what exactly constitutes a 'minimum'? TheD would apparently like anarchy, though I expect if he got it he'd be less pleased that he thinks. I'd be fine rolling back the clock to the 1920's or so, though we need some touchups to account for modern electronic society.

For the record.
Income tax should be eliminated, if anything is private it ought to be the contents of your wallet.
SS, Medicare and Medicaid are also no-gos. Obamacare is an abomination. Of course, we regulated the insurance and medical industry into a box, so that needs to be fixed to a real free market system. Health care is NOT a right.
Virtually all firearms laws are nonsense, and in any event in contravention of the Constitution.
I don't see anywhere in that document a provision for the government to shutdown private business, absent declaration of martial law.
On the other hand, the government clearly has an interest in securing the borders and travel to/from the US.

Traffic laws are not an infringement on your rights.

Click to expand...

Cory, You said if you came upon someone who wasn't wearing a seat belt BLAH<BLAH.. that shows you are dick and shouldn't be doing what you're doing but the amount of work you do you'd fit in with the Fd in Seattle over paid under worked like a lot of the heros

CoryT said:

Oh no, I got the sarcasm, that's why I added the smiley. We are on the same page, but I imagine others here though that was a fabulous idea.

The only problem with the cancellation of insurance leaving the driver on the hook is most of these types are idiots with no money or assets. When you get hit, they can't pay. That's why we needed to make insurance mandatory. Vicious circle problem. Works if you have to prove enough cash and assets to pay out if you are an idiot, but that seems unlikely. In the end it's a group problem, that's why the enforcement of what some people think are non issues. I like a bunch of your other enforcement policies, though fine vs time is mostly the same to poor folk. Put them on the road crew for a week and they end up with no job, might have been better off with the fine. Time to rich folk on the other hand is huge, I'd rather put them on the crew or in jail. Interesting problem, like cash bail. Guy can't pay, sits in jail, costing us money we never get back. Remand those that are a hazard to people, otherwise, let them go to work.

It's like background checks for a firearms purchase. What idiot came up with that? If you are so dangerous that we can't let you have a gun, and we KNOW that, why the hell are you walking around loose in the first place? Otherwise, why do I care if you buy a gun?

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Many here are also members of the FSA and just don’t like to admit it. Mentioned private ownership of roadways with pay for use tolls, crickets...

As for my idea of community service, nobody would be spending a week on a road crew. 2-4 hours picking up trash or cutting the grass at the local city park for a speeding infraction is more my idea. My point is remove the money but punish the infraction with something people actually can afford and/or care about - their time.

For the insurance, I’m talking about the money to pay for their own medical bills and car repairs. Insurance covers the rest of the involved, but the offender gets to take out a second mortgage to pay for their own ER and ICU care. Fuck’em, I’m tired of paying for them and tired of my insurance company, which is one of the best, still covering people who have bad habits. There are no other options out there like I speak of, so I myself am stuck bitching in the internet about it.

CoryT said:

Well, if you don't wear a seatbelt when motoring about, you are an idiot. We can debate if the nanny state should be actively searching you out, my personal opinion is the cost is a wash, and I'd just as soon you get killed and not reproduce. Others think the cost is reduced by using coercion to get you to wear your belt, less resources expended when you inevitably crash. Of course, if I'm the paramedic that shows up to your crash and finds you sans belt, I'll go work on someone who is smarter than you. That policy right there would go a long way to cost reduction.

Of things to complain about right now, getting a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt is right up there with getting hour old coffee rather than a fresh pot.

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Id be pissed big time about hour old coffee.

Everything would be so much better in the world if we just did what you said.

....and I do wear my belt regularly by my own choice.

Rthur said:

I pay for my own insurance.
Far from all do or have it.
I pay for my vehicles.
I pay for the upkeep of these roads.
I pay the taxes on my vehicle and the fuel that goes in it.
I pay the taxes for the pay for the "someones" to patrol it.
I pay the taxes for those who intruct those who patrol the roads.
Same bunch tells me it's a privilege to drive.
Seat belt laws are a result of insurance companies lobbying for less risk coverage.
Everybody that saw their insurance lower after the law/laws were pasted raise their hand...
I live in a state that requires car/truck insurance.
Seems just like the same circle jerk.
Everyone that saw their premiums drop after they did this raise your hand...
Strange they expect me to keep full coverage when it's the "law" that everyone has insurance.


R

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So you pay your taxes, how nice. Show me in the Constitution where you have the RIGHT to operate a motor vehicle on a public roadway. I'll wait. Can't find it? That's because it's not there. You have a right to freedom of travel, but NOT by any means you deem fit and in any manner you choose.

I'm curious, exactly what traffic laws do you support, if any? So far as I can tell, you don't want any. That's not going to end well. Of course, on your own property you can do what you like, no license, insurance, speed limits etc., have fun.

All the laws and all for saving lives and the children, OH wait gotta have more money to cover all the stupid shit we think of.
Illegals all have ns, DL and obey all the laws of this great nation, I got it, it's just the citizens here that must follow the laws. GOTTCHA right

pmclaine said:

Id be pissed big time about hour old coffee.

Everything would be so much better in the world if we just did what you said.

....and I do wear my belt regularly by my own choice.

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I didn't TELL you to do anything. I said you are stupid if you don't wear a belt while driving and I stand by that assessment. Executing a traffic stop because you aren't wearing one is silly and probably more hazardous than not wearing the belt in the first place, at least to the officer making the stop. I'm not sure a law requiring a seat belt is even worth the time it takes to pass it, but I'm willing to be shown statistics that prove me wrong.

CoryT said:

So you pay your taxes, how nice. Show me in the Constitution where you have the RIGHT to operate a motor vehicle on a public roadway. I'll wait. Can't find it? That's because it's not there. You have a right to freedom of travel, but NOT by any means you deem fit and in any manner you choose.

I'm curious, exactly what traffic laws do you support, if any? So far as I can tell, you don't want any. That's not going to end well. Of course, on your own property you can do what you like, no license, insurance, speed limits etc., have fun.

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Rules of the road make sense for those that are inclined to follow the law.

Post up a speed limit and people will generally stay within a reasonable approximation.

Dont have any limit that generally law abiding person is going to drive above his skill set and mayhem will ensue.

So some basic rules of the road that when followed will generally make for a better commuting experience make sense - move right, dont tailgate, drive at a reasonable speed to match the skills of the average driver (sure our highways are engineered for higher speeds but our driver training is not), make safe lane changes.

Sadly these things are tailored to the lowest common denominator even though a general population exceeds that standard.

Still there are enough LCDs that every commuter day on the road would be a nightmare.

When I think of crashes I dont think of the effect of the person that caused it. I think of the effect on the perhaps thousands of commuters perhaps inconvenienced by it. Consider the economic impact of three thousand commuters late to work by fifteen minutes because of a no injury left lane tailgating accident. That is a real cost impact that would far exceed the property damage but no one ever talks about it.

Im more against laws that "layer" upon already existing laws.

So cell phone use is becoming a popular cite-able offense.

Creation of the law to me seems to be purely political grandstanding - "Look how much we care" - and revenue producing - how the fuck did the insurance company get its camel nose under the tent?

For the higher number of people that seem to multi task and operate both a MV and a phone why are they at risk?

How about instead of citing based on purely cell phone use the officer uses the law already on the books "Negligent Operation" as evidenced by the fact you created a crash using your phone instead of driving.

Seems kind of hypocritical for a PO to cite someone for cell phone useage as talk about distracting Im guessing cops have to monitor a radio, perhaps two, a scanner, they use a computer, they enter information in the computer and because they are exempt while on duty they can use their phone. If anyone is distracted Id say its a cop.

I wonder how many would like to substitute the words gun control for seat belt safety? Meaning, would you be likely to allow your government to impose their will on gun control like they have with seatbelt safety.

Back in the day, we drove around with manual steering, manual brakes, suspension geometry not much better than a pedal car, all the while driving 80-100 mph down the road WITHOUT seatbelts. Somehow we survived. Must have been a miracle. Use them, don't use them, don't really matter to me.