So they fat fingered a year...good thing they don't require paperwork accuracy in their job.
There’s no way because I haven’t seen any of the suppressors that I’ve submitted for… One of them has been well over a year
Here’s the issue I’m seeing, we’ve submitted quite a few efiles and haven’t got any back yet, but we’re a very small fish in this pond, comparatively. Companies like ss have submitted tens of thousands since they fired eforms back up, and all we’re seeing is a few people saying they’re getting some back, but we should be seeing hundreds, if not thousands come back by now, and those numbers just aren’t there, so take it as you will, but I think the aft is just as lazy and inept as they ever were. There’s something nefarious a foot here, just hide and watch.
I agree... I think they're slowing down Form 4's to keep people from getting their cans... I know it's on purpose. Maybe not at the examiner level, but when you start going up the ladder...And we all know the current director is a Biden lapdog... The same one who keeps approving fake (non-congressional/DOJ) rule changes that aren't legal, to make law-abiding citizens into criminals.
I'm still waiting on a 4/9/21 and 5/21/21 Form 4 approval...
Yeah they want to slow down form 4's, so they implemented a faster system to approve form 4's.
Makes a lot of sense...
The same way the elites claim they don't want to go to war, but all have their hands in the MIC, so they all secretly warmonger? It's no different. Saying one thing, and then doing the opposite is what all politicians do.
Implementing a system that is faster and more efficient for them makes perfect sense, but at the same time, if the higher ups that work at the Bureau of A-holes Taking Freedoms Everyday don't like guns and NFA items, they might find ways to slow down progress on the existing paper forms... We ALL know they don't like guns and freedom...That's quite apparent by now. They denied almost 1,000 LEGIT Form 1 applications, and then wanted people to incriminate themselves with their new BS unlawful rule changes. They're trying to say FRT's and binary triggers are "machine guns", and that chunks of metal are frames & receivers.
And the more secret documents at the ATF that get leaked, the more these tinfoil hat conspiracies are looking like possibilities of actual conspiracy against law-abiding citizens.It's just a thought...
Sarcasm... Because you know I'm right.
And it's not about me... It's the fact that chunks of metal are regulated to this extent that the whole thing is ridiculous. I can walk into a store and buy a firearm in less than 10 minutes with a NICS approval... But I have to wait a year to get a chunk of metal that goes on the end that saves my hearing? The gun is the dangerous item, the suppressor is not. One doesn't work without the other, and it's not the gun... The fact that the non-lethal item is so highly regulated should bother everyone.
Sadly, at this point, my 2 new OCL cans might get approvals before my 2 Sandman-S cans... 
But I still haven't done my eForms for the OCL cans yet. Probably be a little while due to financial constraints (slow work right now). Luckily my SOT is cool, and has known me for years, so they don't mind helping out by sitting on them for a little bit extra time.
That cant be right, FuhQ is still waiting for his. He was supposed to be the lucky one!
I bought 2 suppressors around Christmas of 2021. The gun shop ran it through the e-forms system. I set up the e-forms account on Jan 5, 2022. Got the first approval 3/14, the second 3/18. Went to the Portland office, if that matters when you do it this way.
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Edited.. wrote it with a guess on dates first, then decided to double check.
All fingerprints get digitized at silencershop(for ss users), whether or not you do kiosk or send them an actual card. In other words the kiosk just removes the step of obtaining/mailing a fingerprint card.
I used the kiosk at a UPS. It was a nightmare getting them right. (I've been finger printed about 40 times in my life... so I'm very familiar with the process.)
However, I did manage to submit them.
Really curious if the process is significantly faster or not that way.
They denied almost 1,000 LEGIT Form 1 applications, and then wanted people to incriminate themselves with their new BS unlawful rule changes. They're trying to say FRT's and binary triggers are "machine guns", and that chunks of metal are frames & receivers.
Ok, you had me right until you got to the solvent traps...
Legally, the ATF are correct... a suppressor has to be manufactured on a Form 1 using parts that YOU built. If you purchase parts that are a thinly veiled attempt to get around the law, then it really shouldn't be a surprise when the form 1 is not valid because someone ELSE made the original parts intending them to be used as an NFA item. Which, by definition, needed to be form 1'ed by the parts manufacturer. BOOM.
The FRT is COMPLETELY different. Yeah, FRT is attempting to get around the machine gun law. HOWEVER, their trigger literally functions with a mechanical interrupt to comply with the law. "One function of the trigger" for each individual shot [semi-automatic]. The law doesn't discuss "automatic weapons like fire;" it's either a machinegun or it's not. ...and then FRT is mechanically NOT a machine gun.
The ATF doesn't like that because they know that it's going to be damn near impossible, until someone uses an FRT to wipe out a school, to get the shitheads on the hill to amend the NFA law. (Which we should all be very concerned about if things go down that path. I shudder to think what a politician will come up with for a new definition of machine gun.)
As such, the with FRT, the ATF is attempting to do all sorts of underhanded crap... not so much with the form 1 solvent traps.
With the solvent traps people rolled the dice and lost. Everyone knew they were meant to be suppressors... and that's the problem.
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Well now your prints are on file for I think 2 years so you won’t need to do them again. To me that’s the advantage of the SS kiosk. But I’m not happy about how long it takes to certify
You have to update the picture annually but that can be done via the app. And fingerprints are either 2 years or 10. I can’t remember
Happy day 366 for me. I’m not even bothering to count the time before the check was cashed. The kicker is 2 suppressors bought on the same day, checks cashed on the same day 3/22/21 and only 1 has been assigned for review, WTH.
Called the ATF and didn’t get any answers besides just keep calling back every couple of weeks.
Called the ATF and didn’t get any answers besides just keep calling back every couple of weeks.
Going back to @kthomas point (or my misunderstanding of his point), while SS and others tout the increased approval speed of the e-form system for form 4's, I don't see where that is actually an explict goal stated by the ATF.
I continue to believe that in extraordinarily typical fashion for goverment, they have really no fucking transition plan in place that I can see.
Just a simple sample plan, able to be developed by a 10 y.o. would be:
1. Paper forms must still be accepted as there may be those without access to digital filing (hard to see who and how, but...)
2. After validation of the e-form system, subsequent e-forms should be queued up and wait until the AFT clears their egregious paper form backlog using ALL examiners and not just the half left after they pulled people for e-forms
3. Then going forward they should accept both paper and e-forms with the vast bulk being e-forms and both submittal methods should experience significant reductions in processing time.
I do fucking hate government in all of its forms for its abject stupidity, inefficiency, and plain incompetence. They are the absolute Kings of Unintended Consequences that everybody else can see coming down the pike.
Ok, off of my soapbox now. I have a paper form 4 in on 18 May. I may not see that suppressor until Jul??
My good friend, @GBMaryland , has a paper form going on 13 months. And we pay taxes for this level of performance? FFS.
I continue to believe that in extraordinarily typical fashion for goverment, they have really no fucking transition plan in place that I can see.
Just a simple sample plan, able to be developed by a 10 y.o. would be:
1. Paper forms must still be accepted as there may be those without access to digital filing (hard to see who and how, but...)
2. After validation of the e-form system, subsequent e-forms should be queued up and wait until the AFT clears their egregious paper form backlog using ALL examiners and not just the half left after they pulled people for e-forms
3. Then going forward they should accept both paper and e-forms with the vast bulk being e-forms and both submittal methods should experience significant reductions in processing time.
I do fucking hate government in all of its forms for its abject stupidity, inefficiency, and plain incompetence. They are the absolute Kings of Unintended Consequences that everybody else can see coming down the pike.
Ok, off of my soapbox now. I have a paper form 4 in on 18 May. I may not see that suppressor until Jul??
My good friend, @GBMaryland , has a paper form going on 13 months. And we pay taxes for this level of performance? FFS.
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I think there are 2 ways it does….assuming by SBR we are all in on the AR variant. With a stripped lower, one already has an approved firearm that may be submitted for Form 1. With an AR pistol, one has a fully assembled firearm that has an approved legal definition of a pistol and in some cases specific ATF approval of the brace which substitutes for a stock. Solvent traps as noted never had explicit or implicit ATF approval in any form.
On the pistol, where things get a little gray is intent and purpose. If one’s intent is to effectively obtain an SBR by acquiring the AR pistol and adding a stock that is illegal. Likewise, if one acquires a pistol with the intent and purpose of using it as a rifle….even with the brace….then there is potential for illegal activity. At least by my trying to understand the law. Of course this seems very nebulous and subjective.
Which is why I recommend if buying a AR pistol go ahead and Form 1 SBR it. It is rather easy to do on the efile. The biggest hassle being getting your prints, at least where I am located. If there is a rule change regarding pistol braces you will be ahead of the line that will be trying to get this done during whatever grace period is allowed. Of course there is a wee chance the political stars may align one day and do away with the barrel length minimum and suppressor check and stamp system currently in place making all this moot.
^^^and my apologies to the mods and other members….I just realized which thread this was taking place in….discussion probably needs to be taken elsewhere to a new thread in the Armory if it continues….when I was waiting on an approval and checking this thread all I gave a damn about was what time period the ATF was currently working on!
My SOT Just text me all 3 of my form 4s came back approved. All 3 were for a trust
2 of the form 4s - checks were cashed on 6-15-21
1 form 4 - check cashed around 11-15-21
Good day knowing I can pickup 3 of my suppressors !
2 of the form 4s - checks were cashed on 6-15-21
1 form 4 - check cashed around 11-15-21
Good day knowing I can pickup 3 of my suppressors !
SBR's are tied to the serial number of the receiver. Not the barrel. ...and it is illegal to have a short barrel. You apply for the SBR and then you modify the rifle...
They are not apples to apples.
Making parts that you claim are not a suppressor, and then they are made into a suppressor... While a barrel is a barrel and the law doesn't indicate that a barrel under 16 inches is illegal until it's mated with a weapon.
Haha…Ken, do you have an aunt who works at the ATF so something??!! LOL
Some of the shortest approval times I have seen.
Congrats.
What do you mean illegal to have a short barrel? Like the dozen or so I have sitting in a drawer are illegal to Posses?
It’s illegal to possess an SBR fully assembled.
If you take those short barrels and put them on a firearm without having gotten the approval from the ATF…
Many states actually have additional laws that may make simply owning the barrels intent to build an SBR illegally.
So you also have to watch out for that crap…
Or Like Marylands bullshit law, where you KINDA get an SBR, so long as it’s 29.5”
Ok. Yes I know that. I was trying to clarify what you were saying. Having fully assembled uppers with short barrels is perfectly legal. Just don’t put them on a lower that’s not a registered SBR. Simply owning barrels or uppers with short barrels is perfectly legal.
Help as long as you don’t live in one of those evil states who see just having the upper as intent.
for example, I’m sure if you live in Texas no one gives a shit. ( not legal advice )
for example, I’m sure if you live in Texas no one gives a shit. ( not legal advice )
yeah I don’t remember what that law is… I know that all supposed assault long guns have to have a 29 1/2 inch overall length.
However A.R. pistols are totally legal.
Submitting a paper form 4 at least in my part of the US is mailed to Portland and the check is cashed in a few weeks to a month. Why? Because there are piles and piles of submissions that must be opened to get the check out and cashed. Then it sets there for an extended period of time, until it is finally mailed to NFA in WV. Remember once they open the envelope for the check it must be put in another envelope and stamped again - extending the length of time the submission is setting in limbo. The information from your paper form must be entered by persons manually and due to the sheer volume it takes several more months before it is in the database for an examiner to eventually review.
Look at how much more efficient eform submission is and I will use Silencer Shop for the example. Once your local dealer has your can, you are sent a docusign packet via email. You sign it and that is emailed back instantly to SS. Your local dealer opens his Silencer Shop dealer portal (see attached image, “starting session”) they click on your can for submission and their software builds your submission for an ATF submission. Silencer Shop‘s software interfaces with the ATF API electronically auto fills all the fields from your docusign submission into ATF electronic form. If you file a trust and are certifying remotely you actually see this happening (see attached image, “locating draft”). Once your data has finished auto filling from SS into the ATF eform, then the customer clicks on the ”do you certify this is all correct, etc.” box and the dealer does the same. Customer enters user ID and PIN and dealer does the same. The ATF is instantly paid by SS and the submission is finished. Within minutes the customer receives their ATF permit/control number and the submission, payment and data entry of the form is finished.
As for examiners being divided to now work on eforms making the wait longer for paper submissions that were submitted before the eform rollout, I believe this is incorrect. Here’s why…
I’ll use a firearm buy for an example; buy from a small shop you fill out a paper 4473, it is submitted via phone which can be long because an actual person is involved. Now go into a big gun store chain, buy a firearm and they have you fill out your 4473 on a computer screen. Once the store hits the submit button the “PROCEED” can come back in seconds. Why? No person is involved (think NFA examiner).
So ATF/NFA has developed a way in eform rollout that automates the review process of a submission, just like they have for electronic submissions of 4473 and IRS tax returns via TurboTax. Eform submissions are not being given priority over paper forms, it is just a different process that involves MUCH more automation. And just like you cannot jump boat on a paper submission of your taxes to electronic, it‘s the same with paper form 4 it is the process you agreed to.
Look at how much more efficient eform submission is and I will use Silencer Shop for the example. Once your local dealer has your can, you are sent a docusign packet via email. You sign it and that is emailed back instantly to SS. Your local dealer opens his Silencer Shop dealer portal (see attached image, “starting session”) they click on your can for submission and their software builds your submission for an ATF submission. Silencer Shop‘s software interfaces with the ATF API electronically auto fills all the fields from your docusign submission into ATF electronic form. If you file a trust and are certifying remotely you actually see this happening (see attached image, “locating draft”). Once your data has finished auto filling from SS into the ATF eform, then the customer clicks on the ”do you certify this is all correct, etc.” box and the dealer does the same. Customer enters user ID and PIN and dealer does the same. The ATF is instantly paid by SS and the submission is finished. Within minutes the customer receives their ATF permit/control number and the submission, payment and data entry of the form is finished.
As for examiners being divided to now work on eforms making the wait longer for paper submissions that were submitted before the eform rollout, I believe this is incorrect. Here’s why…
I’ll use a firearm buy for an example; buy from a small shop you fill out a paper 4473, it is submitted via phone which can be long because an actual person is involved. Now go into a big gun store chain, buy a firearm and they have you fill out your 4473 on a computer screen. Once the store hits the submit button the “PROCEED” can come back in seconds. Why? No person is involved (think NFA examiner).
So ATF/NFA has developed a way in eform rollout that automates the review process of a submission, just like they have for electronic submissions of 4473 and IRS tax returns via TurboTax. Eform submissions are not being given priority over paper forms, it is just a different process that involves MUCH more automation. And just like you cannot jump boat on a paper submission of your taxes to electronic, it‘s the same with paper form 4 it is the process you agreed to.
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I thought I was going too far with my second e-file this year. That's quite the stack cans there.
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