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If you haven't already, get a HRD mag kit and something to bend the feed lips with. I hacksawed a slit into a piece of scrap wood. It might take some tuning to feed well.
MPA makes a mag lip adjustment tool. Works really well.
I've been running a AICS 10rd with PVA and PR kits without a single issue...
My MDT mag wouldn't work, rounds nose dived constantly so haven't used it for a year or two....Found out MDT revised the internals on their BR mags to fix this so I reached out.....they sent me all new internals....follower, spring and Spacer.
I shot it 2 days ago for the first time with the upgraded new internals....ran flawless.....not a single issue.
My MDT mag wouldn't work, rounds nose dived constantly so haven't used it for a year or two....Found out MDT revised the internals on their BR mags to fix this so I reached out.....they sent me all new internals....follower, spring and Spacer.
I shot it 2 days ago for the first time with the upgraded new internals....ran flawless.....not a single issue.
Well I dropped a dime and ordered the SAC die in BR. Now the wait is on.
Use AI mags, AX or AW with HRD spacers for BR cartridges.
So I'm confused? You say you can switch from 6BRA to 22BR with just the caliber conversion bushing? That's not what I was told from SAC. They said if you have a 6BR die it will only do BR like 6BR / 22 BR / 30 BR.... NOT 6 BRA / 6GT
Please confirm
Thanks
This is correct...I use a SAC BR die for both 6BR and 22BR.
So not to derail this thread....but...it may be valuable for BR loaders. Maybe I am doing something wrong...but I never asked SAC. I took the 6 BRA bushing out, and dropped the 22 BR bushing in. The case measurements other than the neck/shoulder are the same so I just went with it. Chambers and extracts just fine. I am necking down in one pass (fired BR brass, annealed) and running them. Total Indicator Runout on the loaded rounds in usually about .001-.0015.
BUT HERE IS THE CATCH. The 6 BRA de-capper won't work, the diameter is obviously too large for the 22 neck. So you need to slide the de-capping pin up far enough in the collet to still align the bushing but not engage the case neck.
Or you can use the right 22 BR mandrel--I assume It will work just fine as both take the 6mm ER-11 collet and the 22BR and 6 BRA bushings have the same ID. As I am still tweaking neck tension and have not ordered the mandrel yet. (and holding out for the expander with the de-cappping pin!)
26" 1:7 Osprey Barrel Works, 155nk, 130 fb, from PVA shooting very well. Still tweaking the load but 29.2 Varget, CCI 450, 0.033 jump is giving me right at 3010 avg with SD about 6. Shot 14 rnds at 29.4 round robin (i,e other rounds mixed in) yesterday at 3032 avg with an SD of 2.6...but 29.2 is a at a better point in the accuracy node.
6 GT...no way.
Anyways, thats how I got to where I am....it may not be the approved solution, but its working for me. And you will have to decide if you can go the other way for BR to BRA....
ZY
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Welp, 6 BRA die WILL NOT work for 22BR....after the first firing.
I was just lucky! When forming 22BR on already sized 6 BR brass (just reducing the neck) my setup as listed in post #791 does work--and works well.
HOWEVER, after I shot the brass, I could not bump the shoulder back---the BRA die body is longer than the BR die body. Even with the shims, I could not get to where I needed to be. It appears the neck/shoulder junction is father up int he bushing for the 22BR than the 6 BRA--about 0.04 by a quick measurement.
I suppose I could hillbilly it and size the fired brass without the de-capping pin in the 6 BRA to bump the shoulder, then size the neck in the 22 BR with the mandrel...but why? I was actually trying to save space on my press turret and assumed it would work.
The fix? I just sent SAC some more $$ for a BR die....
All good....data by trial and error.
ZY
I was just lucky! When forming 22BR on already sized 6 BR brass (just reducing the neck) my setup as listed in post #791 does work--and works well.
HOWEVER, after I shot the brass, I could not bump the shoulder back---the BRA die body is longer than the BR die body. Even with the shims, I could not get to where I needed to be. It appears the neck/shoulder junction is father up int he bushing for the 22BR than the 6 BRA--about 0.04 by a quick measurement.
I suppose I could hillbilly it and size the fired brass without the de-capping pin in the 6 BRA to bump the shoulder, then size the neck in the 22 BR with the mandrel...but why? I was actually trying to save space on my press turret and assumed it would work.
The fix? I just sent SAC some more $$ for a BR die....
All good....data by trial and error.
ZY
I just put together my first rifle in 6 BR. I threw together some ammo in Lapua brass and took it shooting today. I seated the 105's so they didn't touch the rifling, I have no idea how far they are jumped. 29 grains of H4895 got me a mean of 2850 and an SD of 7 for 10 shots. 29.5 got me 2907, but the SD went to 14. All my groups so far have been under .5, with a couple putting 4 shots in the .3's. With 20 mph gusts and spitting rain, and me shooting, that is pretty good.
I spent months developing a load for my .223 AI that shot in the .4's. This will do it with without even trying. It looks like everyone was right. The BR really is an easy button.
I spent months developing a load for my .223 AI that shot in the .4's. This will do it with without even trying. It looks like everyone was right. The BR really is an easy button.
Oh my, this will be an adventure. Lapua 6BR next to a 300 PRC.
After waiting a year for my AT-X to arrive, I was finally able to get it out to the range, albeit with factory Lapua 105s. It has the WinTac 26" 6BR barrel and will certainly outshoot me.
Unsuppressed (top) and suppressed on the bottom while I was zeroing at 100yds with the Dead Air brake and Sandman-L suppressor . Speeds were disappointing though, average was 2666 for the factory loads. The barrel will speed up a bit, but I'll have to work up a load to get in the mid 2800's.
Question as I want to get this correct. I'm going to use the SAC modular die for reloading 6BR using Lapua brass, Berger 105s and possibly Hornady 108s. While I have bushings for the SAC, I want to add a mandrel to the process. Since the OD of both bullets are .2430, I assume I go -.002 and should buy a .2410 to get the right neck tension? TIA.
I run the 21st Century Black Nitride “T24”. No issues cutting tiny holes, SD/ES for my load with Lapua brass, 105 Hybrids is 5sd/11es. Just giving yah another option. Fwiw, I used the same mandrel for my 6cm running 108 eld’s.
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Yes, pending brass spring back. I usually see 2,5K neck tension when using a turning mandrel (.241) and checking with a - pin gage.
Generally, a 'turning mandrel' will be 2K under nominal bullet diameter, and an 'expander mandrel' 1K under.
I also like the 21st black nitride, although I find the sinclair TiN and carbide offerings are also nice. If really pressed, I'd say carbide was the 'slickest' but only by the smallest of margin.
I have carbide, TiN and black nitride. I use the black nitride as I feel it’s the slickest and feels best when expanding the cases.
Been shooting an old 6 BR I bought from an old bench rest shooter. just a rem 700 SA with a heavy Krieger barrel that was shot out when i bought it and i have put over 2000 rounds through it, probably has over 6000 through it. Throat and first 5 inches of bore look like a dried up mud lake fire cracked to hell and no rifling. been shooting berger 68 flat bases its whole life and i switched it up to some 65 berger boat tails and 70 sierra blitzkings and it made my jaw drop. gun is funny it has some character, stock is cracked in bout 3 places, the bubble level he super glued to the stock is bout a half a bubble off, it wont start shooting good till the barrel gets hot hot hot. like 20 rounds in. its ate molly coated bullets its whole life. ive only cleaned the barrel 3 times in 2000 rounds because it will shoot like absolute booty hole for about half the year after a cleaning. eats about 50 bullets a week every Wednesday in a local shooting club benchrest match and still wins quite a few shoots. i have shot the same 100 brass for about 20 reloads, neck size only and have only full length sized once to bump the shoulder. have never annealed the brass, and have only split one case. havent even had trim for the last 2 years it just stays the same length.
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Great story , good to see the old rig still hanging in there . Interesting that you mainly neck size , what brand neck die do you use ? Thanks
Thanks, I will give that a try .
I'm planning to work up a load using 108 ELD's as I'm having a hard time consistently finding 105s hybrids. What everyone finding for seating depth on the 108s?
It's dependent on your chamber because they typically work better with a 40 to 80 thou jump.
Find the lands in your rifle with the firing pin and plunger removed, then back off 40 60 and 80 and whichever works better, stay there and don't chase the lands. There's videos on how to do it and that should get you where you want to be.
I'm planning to work up a load using 108 ELD's as I'm having a hard time consistently finding 105s hybrids. What everyone finding for seating depth on the 108s?
I
I
I loaded some the same depth setting on my die as I loaded for the 105 HT. Fwiw, I’m jumping the 105’s .090, so that might be in the .080 range with 108? They shot quite well there. Good luck and please report back what you find.
6br
108eldm
20thou off lands
30.2 varget
205m
27" 8twist ibi
Lapua brass
35 rounds on barrel
2802fps
108eldm
20thou off lands
30.2 varget
205m
27" 8twist ibi
Lapua brass
35 rounds on barrel
2802fps
Nope. couldn't drive them fast enough in BRA to make it worthwhile. Both RL16 and 8208 maxed out around 2600, IIRC.
Amateur PRS fun seeker, second attempt at getting a rifle together.
Started with Virgin Lapua Brass (things actually improved at 1x firing)
108 ELD-Ms
BR4 / 450s / FGMM / Rem 7-1/2
30.1 SW Precision / 29.9 Varget - I was told they're pretty close to identical, and I can confirm.
10 thou off
2779-2784 fps, LabRadar
Impact RH
Bartlein 26" MTU
Manners PRS-TCS
Atlas BT10, or V8 - the one with the spinny legs?
TT Special, 14oz.
Kahles 6-24
ECTuner on "0" - never touched it. No need with these groups.
WC OG Gamechanger, Pint-size Heavy WC GC, MFC - like the PHGC for shooting groups
Cold bore: .2-.3 high, .1 left.
307 rounds to date, haven't cleaned since break-in. Will swab for carbon prior to next range session. The plan is to swab carbon every 3-400, and take back to bare metal at 1500, or when/if groups change.
LEWilson bushing sizer
LEWilson 6mm Mandrel die
LEWilson arbor seater, no force pack.
K&M Flash hole uniformer/debur small hole pilot
K&M Precision case neck Chamfer tool
Annealez each firing (so far, 1x)
Wet tumble clean
RCBS Chargemaster Lite - verified with my Dillon beam scale - it throws within .1, reliably
Someone I trust said to start with 29.6 of Varget at ten thou off. I had precision, and they said try it similarly but drop some just to be safe. I did, and it just spit fire from the get go. Went for break in with 29.0, 20 rounds with some cleanings. Threw 120 through it and waited for the speed-up. Never noticed it. Loaded a charge ladder from 29.6 to 30.6 in .1 increments, and 30.1 was the ticket. 170 total rounds, most of that was chasing the "speed up". Once I was sure velocities were stable, tune was done. Go figure. I repeated the OCW with Varget last week after finally getting some, and it prompted recording the result here.
These are as close to identical in my rifle as I think I can personally get. I will load 10 of each, put up some paper at 600, and test dispersion. Velocities appear the same, within margins. The SDs are best with 450s and the FGMM, though only slightly. Single digits for for the most part for each of the primer choices. This barrel is hard to dislike, it shoots all of these recipes just like the others, and has no issues holding point of moa plate downrange with each.
Declarations: Two groups were fails on the Labradar, I'm not as good at using it as I should be; The paper and plates confirmed their similarity though. Nor am I a pro shooter by any means. This all happens with an amateur at the wheel.
All my actual testing to date is with groups of 10 on paper at 100, followed by ranged confirmation on plates. It's hard to tell the difference at 100, the larger groups were 3/4 inch, some were much less. Either way, for my purposes I'm impressed. The resulting bullet-meets-plate at 800 is a breeze; to say I'm happy would be an understatement. My interpretation is that in any of these loads, if I miss the target, it's my issue not the equipment's.
I seem to have found a node at 2780 (mostly by accident and coincidence), and am happy with the results. I'm not trying to win the speed game. Two tenths of a grain on the charge either way, and there seems to be little or no real-world change. This confirms what I've heard about the wide nodes present for 6BR, especially at these velocities.
The only real outlier is the REM 7-1/2s (also the 3/4" groups), their SDs are slightly higher at 12. I suspect these will be reserved for the gas guns anyway.
I have plenty of 450s, so that will likely be the primer of choice - again, go figure. For my next barrel I will most assuredly buy 500 same lot brass, not 300, and 3-4k projos, rather than 1k.
I was encouraged to seek another speed node above this one. Estimating 2890ish? May do so. Not sure if it's necessary though, so I may not. Nod, thanks, and shrug.
I went with 6BR for the "easy-mode" reputation, so far it's proving very true. On a good day, I'm pretty sure even I could take this rifle and shoot with a pro and have some real fun.
Cheers, Hide
Started with Virgin Lapua Brass (things actually improved at 1x firing)
108 ELD-Ms
BR4 / 450s / FGMM / Rem 7-1/2
30.1 SW Precision / 29.9 Varget - I was told they're pretty close to identical, and I can confirm.
10 thou off
2779-2784 fps, LabRadar
Impact RH
Bartlein 26" MTU
Manners PRS-TCS
Atlas BT10, or V8 - the one with the spinny legs?
TT Special, 14oz.
Kahles 6-24
ECTuner on "0" - never touched it. No need with these groups.
WC OG Gamechanger, Pint-size Heavy WC GC, MFC - like the PHGC for shooting groups
Cold bore: .2-.3 high, .1 left.
307 rounds to date, haven't cleaned since break-in. Will swab for carbon prior to next range session. The plan is to swab carbon every 3-400, and take back to bare metal at 1500, or when/if groups change.
LEWilson bushing sizer
LEWilson 6mm Mandrel die
LEWilson arbor seater, no force pack.
K&M Flash hole uniformer/debur small hole pilot
K&M Precision case neck Chamfer tool
Annealez each firing (so far, 1x)
Wet tumble clean
RCBS Chargemaster Lite - verified with my Dillon beam scale - it throws within .1, reliably
Someone I trust said to start with 29.6 of Varget at ten thou off. I had precision, and they said try it similarly but drop some just to be safe. I did, and it just spit fire from the get go. Went for break in with 29.0, 20 rounds with some cleanings. Threw 120 through it and waited for the speed-up. Never noticed it. Loaded a charge ladder from 29.6 to 30.6 in .1 increments, and 30.1 was the ticket. 170 total rounds, most of that was chasing the "speed up". Once I was sure velocities were stable, tune was done. Go figure. I repeated the OCW with Varget last week after finally getting some, and it prompted recording the result here.
These are as close to identical in my rifle as I think I can personally get. I will load 10 of each, put up some paper at 600, and test dispersion. Velocities appear the same, within margins. The SDs are best with 450s and the FGMM, though only slightly. Single digits for for the most part for each of the primer choices. This barrel is hard to dislike, it shoots all of these recipes just like the others, and has no issues holding point of moa plate downrange with each.
Declarations: Two groups were fails on the Labradar, I'm not as good at using it as I should be; The paper and plates confirmed their similarity though. Nor am I a pro shooter by any means. This all happens with an amateur at the wheel.
All my actual testing to date is with groups of 10 on paper at 100, followed by ranged confirmation on plates. It's hard to tell the difference at 100, the larger groups were 3/4 inch, some were much less. Either way, for my purposes I'm impressed. The resulting bullet-meets-plate at 800 is a breeze; to say I'm happy would be an understatement. My interpretation is that in any of these loads, if I miss the target, it's my issue not the equipment's.
I seem to have found a node at 2780 (mostly by accident and coincidence), and am happy with the results. I'm not trying to win the speed game. Two tenths of a grain on the charge either way, and there seems to be little or no real-world change. This confirms what I've heard about the wide nodes present for 6BR, especially at these velocities.
The only real outlier is the REM 7-1/2s (also the 3/4" groups), their SDs are slightly higher at 12. I suspect these will be reserved for the gas guns anyway.
I have plenty of 450s, so that will likely be the primer of choice - again, go figure. For my next barrel I will most assuredly buy 500 same lot brass, not 300, and 3-4k projos, rather than 1k.
I was encouraged to seek another speed node above this one. Estimating 2890ish? May do so. Not sure if it's necessary though, so I may not. Nod, thanks, and shrug.
I went with 6BR for the "easy-mode" reputation, so far it's proving very true. On a good day, I'm pretty sure even I could take this rifle and shoot with a pro and have some real fun.
Cheers, Hide
Clean the darn thing. The whole not cleaning thing is gonna get you only issues.
26” MTU
Surgeon action
30gr N140 (hit heavy bolt lift at 30.4 grains so I backed off)
Norma brass
Federal 205 primer
107smk
2846fps
Have 10 rounds loaded for SD and ES test will update when I shoot it tomorrow.
Surgeon action
30gr N140 (hit heavy bolt lift at 30.4 grains so I backed off)
Norma brass
Federal 205 primer
107smk
2846fps
Have 10 rounds loaded for SD and ES test will update when I shoot it tomorrow.
This thread might get a bit more spicy now that Alpha is making straight BR brass with their OCD case head.
I have zero complaints with my Lapua brass. Im on 13 firings on my oldest brass pockets still nice and tight and the brass doesnt grow... Running 90smk at 3030
I got 15 firings out of my lapua brass, until eventually some of them wouldn't fit into the shell holder because the diameter in the extractor groove swelled just enough to make them stick.
Just built a 6BR on a Tikka T3 Action in an ESS chassis. Barrel is Lothar Walther 28" 1:8 twist. Reamer is from Dave manson.
Found a great load with 90gr Lapua scenar, CCI BR4 primers and Vihtovouri N140. 27.5grain.
Groupsize:5 rounds 0.4 inch outside. im Pretty happy with that.
But cant get the 105 Amax to group. Anyone experience with N140?
Thanks
Found a great load with 90gr Lapua scenar, CCI BR4 primers and Vihtovouri N140. 27.5grain.
Groupsize:5 rounds 0.4 inch outside. im Pretty happy with that.
But cant get the 105 Amax to group. Anyone experience with N140?
Thanks
I use N140 in my 6BR with 105's and 109's. I run on the slow side with a charge of 28.5 grains. I've shot Bart's 103 Dominators and 105 Hammers, Berger 105 VLD's and Hybrids and Berger 109's. My gun seems to like the 109's the best. I like the velocity on the slower side so I can see my impacts. For some reason, I have had difficulty getting Hornady bullets to shoot well.
308 shooter who comes in peace 
I'm thinking of putting together a 6BR to shoot at my local range (mostly 1-200 with limited 300).
I have a decent enough stash of reloading supplies and equipment for 308. My question is if any of you have been in my shoes does it make sense to try a new caliber?
I'm not made of money but I would like any advantage I can earn over 308.
Thanks!
I'm thinking of putting together a 6BR to shoot at my local range (mostly 1-200 with limited 300).
I have a decent enough stash of reloading supplies and equipment for 308. My question is if any of you have been in my shoes does it make sense to try a new caliber?
I'm not made of money but I would like any advantage I can earn over 308.
Thanks!
Well I'm glad we got the Savage comment out of the way quickly.
I made the jump myself and the 6br is crazy accurate and easy to tune. Brass never grows and should be good for an estimated 18 firings or so. I got me a Harrells sizing die and Forster micrometer seater. Annealing I got the annealeez. I hear most guys don’t anneal the 6br. My chamber neck is .272 so it barely works the brass. Now that I think about it I should have made the 6br jump a long time ago.308 shooter who comes in peace
I'm thinking of putting together a 6BR to shoot at my local range (mostly 1-200 with limited 300).
I have a decent enough stash of reloading supplies and equipment for 308. My question is if any of you have been in my shoes does it make sense to try a new caliber?
I'm not made of money but I would like any advantage I can earn over 308.
Thanks!
One of the guys has done some early testing that seems to indicate that CFE 223 works well. I don’t know if he’s done further work with it yet.
I searched the thread for cfe 223 but didn't find anything. I'm interested in reading how it does.
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