AK-74 vs. Brown Bear outside of Anchorage
- Thread starter Anvil_X
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It beats the hell out of a picture of a pile of bear scat and a second place ribbon.
Don't get me wrong. Everyone is glad this person was able to defend the attack with the limitations at hand.
I think is ok to have pictures of the sights and the fallen attacker in a dignifying way. But why a picture of the bloody skinned bear's head with a puzzy AK round on top? What is the symbol of that?
I mean what is the point of putting that up online for everyone in the world to see? I don't think this was done in bad faith but we have to think about our attitude as responsible firearm owners
and many here probably hunters and conservationists. To me that is not bringing up any positive karma about the the animal and mother nature.
Keep in mind the great bear is a sacred animal for many people.
So are our fellow human beings.
Two great creatures met in the woods. One wanted to make the other dinner, while the other just wanted to enjoy some great scenery. Not faulting the bear for doing what comes natural but unfortunately for him he screwed with the wrong hiker.
Had not the OP taken this bear out and had the hiker become a pile of dung whats the Alaska game warden response to something like that in a populated area? I imagine more than one bear would have met a similar fate to find out which one perhaps had some human DNA in the small intestine and had perhaps developed a taste for long pig.
When the dances with bears guy and his girlfriend were killed I think more than one bear was put down to prevent further attacks on humans.
If you care about bears you may want to consider thanking the OP.
Edit - Regards the picture, after surviving something like that I can only imagine the adrenaline dump and the feeling of thank the supreme being for still being alive, I might have skull fucked that wonderful animal and taken a picture.
edit - Took another look at the picture come to think of it it is kind of grizzly.
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No doubt the person had to do anything possible to survive. That is not my point. The other of the fallen bear I am ok.
But It is the other picture I don't understand. I don't want to see any naked skulls no matter who won. It is not just the gruesomeness or anything unfortunately we have plenty of that
everywhere but what is the message we are giving as firearm owners. Again keep in mind we have hunters, protectionist, native Americans, people who are not antigun or PETA nuts but also they
are not pro-gun neither just neutral so how are we going to show we are respectful of each other and mother nature. As firearm owners we need to keep this in mind at all times.
This pics hit the search engines and then what message they send? What is the fun unless it was a forensic science study of some sort I guess?
Anyway. It is a long battle in youtube and forums and what not. Some folks get it and some don't. The future will be what WE make of it. Murrow's words.
If you thought the picture was in poor taste why did you repost it?
For what it was worth it was just a wild animal looking for dinner Not like he was looking for a date or any other emotional attachment.
Agreed, out of context I can see how this could be offensive. In this thread with the information as presented here. I think I understand what the photographer wanted to express by the photo.
I don't want to live in a world where I have to couch my language because someone somewhere may be offended. If that were the case no message of any kind could ever be conveyed. Take any picture you want, a mother holding a baby, and someone will find offense.
Those pictures go to the search engines so people can see full blown like that not in a thumbnail. Again I am inclined to think in the forums you have many professional hunters, protectionists and many other outdoors people
including native Americans and other people that consider that animal sacred.
It is not that is offensive or not and certainly not to me but simply questioned what is the point of that picture and what we can learn from this if someone wants to learn obviously. If we don't want to learn or we don't even
know what we are talking about then we are in a different frequency.
It is not arguing nor cheap talking. I can see the pics the person loves the outdoors and his dog. I am happy he is alive. It is about profound love for what we do and how to give the best example possible.
Responsible firearms owners and hunters are made of responsible citizens.
including native Americans and other people that consider that animal sacred.
It is not that is offensive or not and certainly not to me but simply questioned what is the point of that picture and what we can learn from this if someone wants to learn obviously. If we don't want to learn or we don't even
know what we are talking about then we are in a different frequency.
It is not arguing nor cheap talking. I can see the pics the person loves the outdoors and his dog. I am happy he is alive. It is about profound love for what we do and how to give the best example possible.
Responsible firearms owners and hunters are made of responsible citizens.
E, you need to develop a thicker skin. Frankly, I'm pretty much convinced that few around you in Gomorrah-on-the-Hudson would have given little thought to Bergmann if the bear had managed to kill him, other than to say something profoundly snarky about firearms and those who have and use them. Moreover, I'm not inclined to give much of a damn how we're perceived at this rate by self-righteous hipster twits who are afraid of rubber band guns as societally irresponsible.
My skin is just fine. I have barnacles in my balls already. Nobody is worried about self-righteous hipsters.
As I said I am very happy for the attacked person but like many senior hunters will tell you I just wanted to transmit a sense of respect to the animal and mother nature
and I that pic I am not sure what message is sending. Nothing else.
Obviously everyone is entitled to don't give a dam about anything. This is a free country after all.
As I said I am very happy for the attacked person but like many senior hunters will tell you I just wanted to transmit a sense of respect to the animal and mother nature
and I that pic I am not sure what message is sending. Nothing else.
Obviously everyone is entitled to don't give a dam about anything. This is a free country after all.
Interesting ..That's soooooooooooo cute ..I think the real problem here is you have a problem and you're looking for something to bitch about. Your audacity is an emotional reaction to your own short comings that fester in your heart. I'm sure in the back of your head you know you would have shit your pants like a 6 year old girl and got eaten so you have to rag on me. Have you ever faced a bear that was gonna kill you in such a situation? No. That's the answer, NO..so shut your suck. I killed that bear. Fuk that bear, fuk that bear twice. I cant fathom caring any less who holds it sacred. Its survival and I survived. I earned the right to make any picture I wanted. If you dont like the picture, go find a bushcraft forum and sing campfire songs. This is a big boy forum and you'll need big boy pants here.
I'm still here to be with my wife and friends and thats whats important. I dont care who is insulted by the picture. Grow up.
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I'm a firm believer in that weapons evolve for a reason..here is a story of a Bolt action that didn't save the guy here in Alaska. I'm certain If he had semi auto, there would be a better chance of him being alive today..
Bear Attack
Bear Attack
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That's a sad story and what's crazy is that the 280 is no weakling of a cartridge...yet that bear got him. A 90 degree bend in the road is the perfect ambush point.
Good thing you had semi auto firepower...from what I've read/heard about bear attacks they are quick and violent.
My grandfather had a run in with a big brown/grizzley bear when he lived in British Columbia in his younger years...he got lucky and was able to kill the charging bear with a lever action rifle.
Bears are king of the woods, I wouldn't want to go into brown bear country without a rifle.
Glad you made it out alive.
Mr Bear is a bad MoFo. Not like Yogi and BooBoo:
World's Deadliest - Grizzly Bear Attacks Prey - YouTube
Land of the Giant Bears (full documentary) - YouTube
World's Deadliest - Grizzly Bear Attacks Prey - YouTube
Land of the Giant Bears (full documentary) - YouTube
Nope no Yogi there..The bear eating that calve could have easily been me..
We were at a wildlife refuge one day here in Alaska and two grizz got to scrapping right in front of me through a wire fence. It was an awesome display of power and aggression. These are pictures from that day..I was really close. Mere feet in fact and I remember thinking that an Ak-74 or AKM would indeed take one out..I remember firing and controlling every shot I shot as best I could to be sure he stopped. I'm glad I was correct.
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/SANY0053.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/SANY0054.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010011.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010005.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010006.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010004.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010002.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010003.jpg
We were at a wildlife refuge one day here in Alaska and two grizz got to scrapping right in front of me through a wire fence. It was an awesome display of power and aggression. These are pictures from that day..I was really close. Mere feet in fact and I remember thinking that an Ak-74 or AKM would indeed take one out..I remember firing and controlling every shot I shot as best I could to be sure he stopped. I'm glad I was correct.
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/SANY0053.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/SANY0054.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010011.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010005.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010006.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010004.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010002.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/bootnknife/2 July Whittier/00010003.jpg
Not for me. Full rifle with proper sights for target acquisition...You would be spraying and praying with that, IMO...
I don't know, I got to fire my friend's and I surprised myself how well I did with it, at least offhand shooting. You can pull against the sling and the foregrip adds a lot of stability vs. handgun. Probably wouldn't make that much difference with the 30 rounds that would fly toward the bear with me at the trigger. The mobility and maneuverability might be worth the trade-off.
Edit: Monday morning quarterback mode off.
Old thread but, I wanted to revisit it...
Would any of you have confidence in a AK47 in 7.62x39 for Alaskan brown bear defense?
I've thought about AK 308's like the Vepr 308, Saiga 308 or Zastava M77 but, I'm a little concerned about the weight, barrel length and less maneuverability compared to the AK47 / 74. An AK47 in AK104 variant with the 12.5" inch barrel would be a good option IMO, it can be suppressed too.
After the link to the story that Bergmann posted about Ken Cates who was killed in 1999 in Alaska who had with him his bolt-action rifle I started to do a lot of thinking that the bolt-action is not good for defensive speed close proximity in dealing with a charge.
Would any of you have confidence in a AK47 in 7.62x39 for Alaskan brown bear defense?
I've thought about AK 308's like the Vepr 308, Saiga 308 or Zastava M77 but, I'm a little concerned about the weight, barrel length and less maneuverability compared to the AK47 / 74. An AK47 in AK104 variant with the 12.5" inch barrel would be a good option IMO, it can be suppressed too.
After the link to the story that Bergmann posted about Ken Cates who was killed in 1999 in Alaska who had with him his bolt-action rifle I started to do a lot of thinking that the bolt-action is not good for defensive speed close proximity in dealing with a charge.
British Columbia conservation uses ARs in 308 for dangerous game interactions. I would think the proper 180gr bullet zeroed at 100 would be quite enough.
Assuming most “Danger” related engagements are inside 100-200 yards, I think M80A1 out of any AR10 would be the ultimate bear defense round in a small-ish caliber. You need both real penetration AND lethal ballistic fragmentation.
A1 does both. It’s just not “precision” ammo, so longer ranges make it less optimal.
A1 does both. It’s just not “precision” ammo, so longer ranges make it less optimal.
I forgot to mention, I'm focusing on Alaska climate/winters. I'm hesitant about any rifles/guns that have cycling issues and other problems in freezing minus -0 artic conditions...
Garand Thumb did three separate freezing tests and the only rifles and shotguns to pass were all AK's. All other rifles failed...
Garand Thumb did three separate freezing tests and the only rifles and shotguns to pass were all AK's. All other rifles failed...
The Beretta shotgun failed during the freeze test. Pump actions don't work with ice accumulation buildup. Only the AK Kalashnikov Komrad USA won. It's a Saiga/Vepr 12 shotgun...
This thread was originally created to talk about how a guy successfully killed an Alaskan brown bear with an AK74 in 5.45.
A lot of people talk about how their #1 sidearm in brown bear country is either a 10mm or a 44 magnum...
7.62x39 penetrates more steel plates than 44 mag hard cast...
7.62x39 123 gr FMJ: 2,421 fps, 1,607 ft lb
44 Mag +P+ 340 gr Hard Cast: 1,425 fps, 1,533 ft lb
I only ever really considered brown bears as a potential surprise encounter when I was fishing. When we harvested caribou as they were swimming in the river with a 22LR Ruger Mark pistol, there was always potential that the bears would show up for some free dinner but we always had someone with a heavy rifle posted watch while the others butchered the carcasses. I've left most of a caribou or 2 because a bear did show up.
In all of my years in Alaska, I generally carried an 870 that never failed. Not even once. I also carried a Taurus Raging Bull loaded with Corbon 335 GR lead bullets. The revolver also never failed a single time. Not even once.
Of course, I do take of care of the things that I might have to depend on.
In all of my years in Alaska, I generally carried an 870 that never failed. Not even once. I also carried a Taurus Raging Bull loaded with Corbon 335 GR lead bullets. The revolver also never failed a single time. Not even once.
Of course, I do take of care of the things that I might have to depend on.
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That’s cuz he’s hunting them with a bitch round. He should be using a lever action .45-70 or something like that.
I have no doubt it could work. I bet more than one has met its end that way on Kamchatka and surrounding areas. If that was my choice, and it probably would not be, I’d probably look for some flat meplat solids vs typical fmj, to facilitate straight line penetration. Possibly even mix in a few tough premium bullets like a 130 gr. Barnes if it would fit or both the Nosler partition 150 gr and 170 gr round nose are fairly short length bullets.
I had kids from Borrow AK at one place I worked. One of the kids on my unit said they hunted polar bears, moose, and caribou with an ar15. His parents brought hime some meat. He let me try the maktuk, and the frozen raw caribou and moose meat. I actually tried to look him up about a year ago, but according to the records I found he died. He ended up at the boys ranch at 15 after he got drunk and passed out outside but was found with only frostbite, and brought inside before he froze to death. He was one of the few kids I saw from up there that didn't show obvious signs of fetal alcohol syndrome.
Ya, survival is a funny thing. There is no, my deer rifle ain't big enough for elk up there. There is no "sportsman's ethics" either. They just run down what they want to shoot on snowmobiles and blast it.
They bust out the artillery when they go whale hunting though. I joked asking if they shot the whale the ar too. He said na, whale gun. They don't shoot whales with little stuff.
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