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Gunsmithing After waiting almost a year...

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Full Member
Minuteman
I finally got my unturned barrel blank...

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Wait... does the hole look a bit small? Yup, it's for a .14/221. Doing it on a Tikka action with a W3 chassis and a TRG trigger group.

Still waiting for the chamber reamer and dies... But I've wanted a .14 for years. Friend of mine let me shoot his at coyotes around 10 years ago and I was hooked. The ballistics are unreal on these. At least <200 yds.

This about as long-term a project as it gets... Been collecting parts for over a year. But at least I have my barrel now!

Cheers,

Sihr
 
Re: After waiting almost a year...

That is awesome! Will definitely be following this.
 
Re: After waiting almost a year...

I'm just curious on where you get bullets for something like that??
 
Re: After waiting almost a year...

What reamer? Whats the barrel life on something like that? What kind of velocities? I am so curious about this, sorry about all the questions.

Also who makes the barrels?
 
Re: After waiting almost a year...

Pacific Took and Die will make a custom chamber reamer (this barrel is un-chambered.) It's just a 1.25" unturned blank, rifled in .14 caliber. 1:7 twist. The chamber reamer will let a gunsmith chamber the barrel.

At the same time, I need to get dies for reloading. Not even standard powder funnels work with these things! And I don't want to order reamer until I have dies either in hand or firmly committed. If I can't get the dies, the reamer will do me no good.

Barrel is from PacNor. Stainless 'match grade' they call it. Well over-length so lots to work with.

Velocities on the .14/221 (which is a Necked down .221 Fireball case) are up to 4500 FPS with the light bullets. Barrel life... not what you'd get from a .308, that's for sure! But that's not the point... ;-)

The case is definitely what would be called 'overbore' so it has a lot more powder capacity than the bore would allow. There is also a .14/223 wildcat, but that doesn't get any faster, it just creates more empty space in the case. And those really burn barrels, apparently. But has the advantage of cheap, readily available brass. But it's not worth the cheap brass because of the overbore issues.

The cartridge is superbly accurate at short range... out to 200 yds or so. But bleeds energy off very fast. By 300, it's about done. At short ranges, because of the velocity, the energy is devastating. The bullets almost never exit.

I am new to this, too. So still learning as well... For example, have gone back and forth a couple of times on caliber selection before going with the .14/221, which is the most popular of the .14 wildcats. The whole subcaliber wildcat world is very interesting... a lot of strange experimenting and amazing creativity. These guys go down to .10 caliber. Amazing!

The nice thing about the fireball case is that it is a dead nuts match for a .223 Bolt face... so no bolt modifications needed on the Tikka T3 action. Magazine may be an issue, but those can have spacers fitted to take the shorter cartridge, though I don't think that will be necessary.

I chose the Tikka specifically because I wanted to mount it one of Massoud's W3 Tikka chassis (which I already have). Sort of a mini-TRG, which is how this project started.

I am still debating whether to bother with the TRG trigger group. Because the Tikka has a great trigger to begin with. Not sure I need to go that route. Though it would be cool!

I have posted mentions of this project a few times and as I was getting started, so I will definitely keep info coming. I am actually still looking for a 'smith to put it together. (ie profile machine the barrel, chamber it and fit it to the action. Also put on bases.) I am thinking about getting it threaded for a .223 can, even though we can't get suppressors in my state. But someday, perhaps and it would be better to have it threaded now! I want to go with a Sphur mount... Atlas Bipod, etc. in the spirit of involving as many of the cool SH inventors/products as possible. I already have a USO scope for it.

For the gunsmith, Massoud gave me the name of a shop outside Columbus, Oh. and I have talked to them about it. But if there are any riflesmiths here who are intrigued by this and not intimidated by sub-caliber work, drop me a PM and let's talk!

I am kind of trying to make this a showcase of 'subcaliber' technology and innovation and do as much of it from 'Hide vendors and supporters as possible.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Re: After waiting almost a year...

Sihr,

I don't knoww if you are aware, but PTG also makes reamers for the reloading dies. You will need a die blank, can buy those from Newlon, and you headspace the die, just like your chamber. In a pinch, you could use your chamber die to make a die, but it is not going to squeeze the brass enough for optimal reuse. It is easy to give PTG a sketch of the die, and they can make a reamer for you. Might save you some time, if you have to order a chamber reamer anyway.

Cool project, keep this one going!
 
Re: After waiting almost a year...

That's insane. The ballistics of the 17HMR is what got me hooked on them, but what you're describing is just nuts!

Do you have any pictures of the rounds you'll be firing out of these?
 
Re: After waiting almost a year...

Hi Mikee:

Just got a set of dies ordered from Reeds. They recommend the Pacific reamer to work with their dies. I think am going with the slightly sharper-shoulder-angle Walker rather than the Eichenberger (sp) but am waiting for their recommendation on that.

So all is good! I am on track!

Jello... I'm not insane. I'm eccentric! I'll get you a picture!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Re: After waiting almost a year...

Hmmmm, I spent the afternoon messing about with a new lathe, alledgedly chambering a BR rifle ( 6PPC). Oh well, I got the barrel threaded and coned anyway.

Point is, I was thinking of this thread.... maybe a .17PPC, that ought to be a real fun toy. Already have the brass, just need a barrel and boolits....and a reamer and a die....
 
After a few more months (quality takes time... and lots of shops are very backed up...) I got back my barreled Tikka Action from Pac Nor barreling. Part of the delay was waiting for the dies, the chamber reamer and the go/no gauges and making sure they all went to Pac-Nor as a package... that way we know everything will be compatible!!!

By way of background, this whole project started about 2 years ago with a stock from KRG research and a plan to do something "Different." Since I've been fascinated by sub-caliber guns for ages, I decided to build my first wildcat sub-caliber in .14/221 Fireball. I wanted to make it as close to my Duty TRG as possible... sort of a mini-TRG project.

I got the barrel from, I think, Reed's but had to send it back to Pac-Nor (who made it) for fitting and profiling. They did a semi-heavy/Sendero profile with a muzzle cut for a brake/suppressor. Not that I can get a suppressor here... but at least it's prepared for it. I'll stick on a brake in the interim.

This morning, I mounted up the KRG Chassis and stock... a beautiful fit after shortening one Allen screw at the front action mount.

Next, I need to get the optics mounts and a few other goodies lined up and installed. And make some ammunition! I have a ton of Fireball cases now and ordered a neck-resizing plate last week. I still predict it will be Christmas before I am shooting it. But, hey, this is a want, not a need!

Some pictures:


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Absolutely lovely barrel work by Pac-Nor. Can't thank them enough for great communications, lots of (the right) questions and a phenomenal attention to detail. Took a while, but utterly worth the wait. Doing the chamberings and other work on these tiny wildcats is not for the feint of heart and they took on the project gladly and simply did an amazing job.


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Here is the chamber reamer and the go/no go gauges that I ordered/had made specially. That was a big chunk of the wait as the company that makes the chamber reamer did not have one in stock, so waited for a run. Note the size of the chamber reamer's pilot... More below!

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Dies from, I think, REEDS ammo and loading supplies. Again, bit of a wait. Also made sure that the folks doing the chambering had dies, reamer, gauges... everything. We wanted to make sure everything was compatible before cutting chips. Maybe not necessary to do everything in serial... and certainly takes longer. But safer in the world of Wildcats!


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Chamber reamer/forcing cone reamer and pilot next to a .308 bullet. Just gives an idea of the scale of these things....


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Muzzle threading next to the same .308 bullet. I'll likely use a .22 brake, mainly to protect the threads. Otherwise, I'll just make a screw-on thread protector.

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Stock Tikka Trigger reinstalled on the action. I can put on a TRG trigger... bolts in place. That gets true 'two-stage' but the pull on this stock Tikka trigger is just wonderful. I'll save the $400+ that the TRG trigger group would cost and put it into optics/mounts instead.


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I mentioned one screw that was about .080" long for the front action. This is the screw. Getting at it meant simply removing the fore end from the chassis and turning it back a bit. It was just barely interfering with the bolt closing. Check this as part of installing a W3 Chassis. On the subject of which... the stock is just simply superb. Fit is outstanding... built like a brick outhouse. The adjustment is first rate. I was privileged to work with Massoud and the KRG folks in their prototype TRG chassis a couple of years ago, so could not wait to try building something around one of their production stocks. Not only am I not disappointed, but think this is one of the coolest accessories out there. Support your fellow 'Hide members!!! They share freely of their knowledge and info... thank them with your support!

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As she sits this morning. As I may have mentioned early in the process, part of the fun of this project has been building a rifle using everything I can from 'Hide vendors and folks who have given me a lot of good info and support over the years. Next on the list will be an Atlas Bipod and I plan on going Sphur mount and using a USO scope. I have been debating putting on a tactical bolt knob (TRG style) but have not decided whether it is needed. The factory knob is nicely done. Last, I'll probably not Krylon this myself... but send it out for a cool finishing job. But that will come after I get ammo made and get it dialed in on the range.

More to follow... but don't expect speed. I'll be back to working on school stuff next week... and so rifles will likely wait until my November break! But thought folks would like to see the current status of a neat project.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Very nice, I've been wondering when this project would resurface, and I am very impressed! Now get with the ammo making and putting small holes in paper!

We installed a KRG on a TRG 22 earlier this summer, was very easy project and it worked out well. Nice piece of kit and lots less $$$ than the Sako original, perhaps even better than the OEM part.
 
Looking good Sirhr! Your plan really came together. You know we still have some gen 3 forends left that have the side mounting positions. We've been swapping them out for the gen 2 forend like you have, let me know if you want one.
Justin
 
This is a cool project. At the velocities you are getting do you anticipate any bullets coming apart? How about shooting in the rain? I would expect they would not fair so well. I cant wait to see this one up and shooting, very nice parts selection.
 
Looking good Sirhr! Your plan really came together. You know we still have some gen 3 forends left that have the side mounting positions. We've been swapping them out for the gen 2 forend like you have, let me know if you want one.
Justin

Justin:

Will definitely take you up on the Gen III swap. And I want to order one of your spigot mounts that I'll use w. bipod. Nicely designed piece of kit.

Also, see that you moved to Idaho... with school I had not been following SH for the past few months and missed your transition. That is music to my ears... Colorado deserves to lose solid, innovative companies like you guys. That had to be a hard, expensive move for you... but I am really glad to hear that you did it and hope lots of others follow suit. Yet another reason to do business with you guys and to help you grow successfully in Idaho!

Let me know the logistics via PM or e-mail if you still have it. School starts again Monday (History of amphibious warfare... should be fun), so will be buried for next 11 weeks. But will get this done!

Thanks for the kind words on the build and for the brainstorming early in the project! Would not be where it is without your input.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
This is a cool project. At the velocities you are getting do you anticipate any bullets coming apart? How about shooting in the rain? I would expect they would not fair so well. I cant wait to see this one up and shooting, very nice parts selection.

Hi Bell.... had not thought much about shooting a .14 in the rain. But 9 grain bullet and a raindrop probably weigh about the same!

The small diameter means that they don't tend to fly apart... the folks who are shooting them haven't had that complaint. Main thing is that barrel life is not great. Few thousand rounds...

The interesting side of it is the energy at short range. The one I shot a bunch of years ago would essentially liquefy woodchucks. What the heck... I like miniature things. So this should just be a hoot. It's more experiment in 'what is possible' than practical. But then again, if I were really crazy (eccentric?) I would be trying the .10 calibers. Totally nuts, that.

When I get it done, I'll bring it up to Maine and we can shoot it. Save me a nice woodchuck!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
I would love that... Ill buy you a few rounds of whatever is your poison and we can B.S. a little after.

I cant wait to see it finished up - Jesse

Oh I almost forgot. I have a Sauer that is waiting on you to come up and shoot it.
 
Cool to see it come together. Reminds me of the months of planning between a few of us on my wildcat cartridge.

GAP, Copper Creek, and I got together and came up with the 22 Creedmoor. I'm changing the name to "22-FOW" ;)
 
Thats going to be a fun rifle to shoot. I had a 20 Vartarg built in 2006 and its my go to rifle for chuck now.
 
Bolt handle and Atlas Bipod arrived this week. I have a front rail and a new forend coming from Massoud, for mounting... But I put the Bolt Handle on today.

It's from Glades Armory (www.gladesarmory.com) and is really nicely built. They offer a number of neat Tikka items and this certainly was no bank breaker at about $55. The knob is nicely knurled and the machining of the dovetails is lovely. Not affiliated with them... just documenting the build! Fitted in in under 10 minutes with just a bit of stoning on a couple of edges to remove wire lips. Tikka Bolt handles, I discovered, are unbelievably easy to fit and this also fits in the W3 Chassis perfectly!

More to follow as more parts come in... it's really starting to come together!

handle1_zps52b6d33c.jpg


Original handle and new handle fitted to the bolt.

handle2_zps70b1a688.jpg


Fitted on the W3.

More to come...

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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Incredibly busy summer behind me... I finally got back to finishing the .14 Tikka project. I actually have a bit more machining to do in order to get the action to eject the 'short' Fireball cartridge. I have a way to do that and should do that before next weekend. Then I'll come up with a finishing pattern or coating idea.

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I may have mentioned earlier that part of the fun of this project was to use lots of components from 'Hide supporters... Barrel is PacNor -- and they also did the chambering and the fitting to the T3 action. KRG W3 Chassis for the Tikka is just a piece of art. Massoud and KRG also provided the spigot mount for the Atlas Bipod. And answered endless questions I had about some engineering changes including custom-fitting the AI magazines, which proved to be a breeze! Sphur Mount (the first one I ever bought and a lovely bit of kit...). Hakkan answered my many questions and helped me find the perfect mount. Finally, I fitted a USO scope... more scope than a .14 needs, but I had this one available and love my USO optics.

Today, after modifying some AI Mags to fit, I was able to confirm that the magazines feed the short cartridge fine, but the ejecting is a challenge. This is not the Magazine's fault, but the action allows the short cartridge to pivot too quickly and pop out of the extractor. I have a plan to fix that by fitting a rail inside the bolt channel... So no range report until I can get that worked out with my handful of dummy cartridges.

In addition, the range report will have to wait until I make a necking-plate to convert my 500 .221 Fireball cases down to .14 Eich cases. I have been waiting for a plate for more than a year and am done waiting. I'll make my own in the next few days.

The idea with this project was to create a 'Mini-TRG' and so far, it's coming out even better than I expected. Though taking much longer, mainly waiting while I get other things done...

Finally, looking for some options for coating the whole package. Thinking about using Cadpat or the 1984 pattern Danish Pletsloring pattern. Perfect for up here in the Northeast woodlands. Any advice on someone who can do the coatings/paint/etc. appreciated!

Best part of this project has been the great support from some of the 'Hide's vendors and really top-tier shooters. Range report to follow...

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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Cool rig! I was surprised to see a 14-221 mentioned here on the hide, but it is an eclectic group. :) Have you shoot anything with it yet?
 
Nice project Sihr. I've always liked the skinny cals. Dad has had a 17 rem for 20+years. Fairly accurate for a stock rem bdl with reloads.


R
 
Cool rig! I was surprised to see a 14-221 mentioned here on the hide, but it is an eclectic group. :) Have you shoot anything with it yet?

Hi PMI:

Have not shot this one yet. I shot a friend's .14/.223 a few years ago over in New York state and thought it was super cool. I hit a woodchuck at about 120 yards and it simply vaporized a large part of it. I have a .17 Rem BDL and a .17 Contender barrel, which are both fun as you can see vapor trails appear from the rounds in the right weather. With a .30, I only get to see trace through a spotter. But with the .17, you can see the trails appear with the naked eye. Like following a laser into the target.

The teeny calibers are just fascinating. I'd love to do a .10... but that gets really tough!

I still have to solve the ejecting problem. And load up my rounds. But hope to be firing it before snow flies!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Once someone gets obsessed with a small hole it's a downward spiral.
 
I'm going to have to tag in, that is just a bad ass little rig. Anxiously awaiting the range report.



t
 
Have 25mm artillery and am looking at bidding on a 40mm Naval cannon this weekend in Maine.

At Poulin's in Fairfield? Are you driving up to bid in person? If so I would love to buy you a beer if you get time. Or better yet lets go shooting, I have a Sauer that has been waiting for you to shoot it.
 
Yes, we should! Lets try to, just let me know. That auction is in the same place and is just up the road. They have some crazy stuff up there, you would never guess it either Fairfield is hardly a town.
 
Tagged. Cant wait to see the range and chrono report. I'm curious about the muzzle brake. Was there a specific reason to thread one on? I can't imagine it would produce much recoil, or was it more of a "ehh, why not!"
 
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Tagged. Cant wait to see the range and chrono report. I'm curious about the muzzle brake. Was there a specific reason to thread one on? I can't imagine it would produce much recoil, or was it more of a "ehh, why not!"

I had the barrel threaded when I had it made against the day when they may allow suppressors in my state. And it was either turn up a thread protector myself or throw an interesting-looking brake on it. So more on the 'why not' side of things. I expect it won't have much effect on recoil... but I don't think I'd want to be next to it on the range. Sorry in advance to those in neighboring benches!

Cheers,

Sirhr