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SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need a bigger screen and one that is more visible under different lighting conditions. </div></div>

Push the top right button which activates the backlight. Mine is certainly visible in any light...

Will the new Horus software be available for updating existing units? I know I have to send it in, but would love any new features you are bringing to it.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

so ... next question:

assuming applied ballistics comes up with an improved version/code/whatever ... can you update the kestrel? if so ... how?
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Just bought my Horus and love it can't wait to see the new one! Love my Litz info,,,
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Mate this is awesome, is the 'Trade in/Trade up' open to non US participants? Ive got a 3500 i was going to retire for a 4500 and thought this would be a great way to jump onboard this awesome cause.

cheers mate, Have a good SHOT.

JJ
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Trade in is open to all.

Yes, the Horus Kestrel can be updated.

No we cannot update Applied Ballistics software on a Horus Kestrel.

Remember, the Horus and Applied Ballistics model are two separate models that have unique features related to its platform. We're just offering more "choices" for the customer and allows you to choose the device that better suites your need.

We will also be displaying our "Hunter" model today as well.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

What are they allowing for trade ins?
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

You can trade in your old kestrel and that model will get refurbished and sent out to our snipers overseas Via American Sniper.org.

You then can take the trade in value and apply that to your new Kestrel purchase.

For more information please call Kestrel.
610-447-1577
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Last day at SHOT show Kestrel WILL be taking pre-orders for the new Kestrel Shooter's Weather Meter with Applied Ballistics. In one week we'll be accepting web orders. Stop by booth 1946 to place your pre-order!
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

I understand that when adding features like this to a unit you have to contend with things like programming and licensing (horus) and what not.

However, I can't help but feel like 300 bucks is a bit steep when the same information, with the same licensing, and added functionality can be had for 30 bucks on the smart phone.

I'm all for paying for convenience and I understand that's part of the cost, but it feels steep. Now if Kestrel is going to do some kind of reprogram your unit deal for say 200 bucks or a trade in for a similar amount you have my attention. I can’t see taking a hit on selling a 4500nvBT as a used item for maybe 300 and then coughing up another 400?! for a bullet library and solver I already have on my phone. I guess what I'm saying is 300-400 bucks is pricey for convenience. With Horus I understand the cost, they charge like crazy for licensing. I have the applied ballistics app and it was 30 bucks, see what I'm saying?

Not trying to start an argument, just offering my thoughts in light of a new product hitting the market at a given price point.

Rich
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

i agree with lawnmm. especially when they already admitted that there is no way to upgrade your applied ballistics software when there are bugfixes coming in, or the library is extended ...
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

My company picked the Kestrel line at the Shot Show, we have 12 units on order if I can help you out let me know. Our shop is in San Marcos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you take pre-orders without a price point? </div></div>
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

To upgrade your software, you simply send it into Kestrel and they will update the product. As for the gun library, that can be updated via online through your PC then you can transfer as needed to the Kestrel unit.

Price might seem steep but you have to assess how your going to use your ballistics calculator. I'm not going to take my smartphone with me to Afghanistan or some hunting trip and rely on it to perform when my life is on the line. The operating temperatures and battery life of a smartphone don't even contest with the Kestrel unit.
Plus my smartphone costs 600 plus dollars and its not covered by a warranty. Throw in an app and that's a 630.00 device that isn't mil spec.

As for trade in prices I can't dictate that but I will talk with them to see what more they can offer.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

I agree, and I don't. I'd probably spend the coin if I was going to Afghanistan, but I'm not. I'm LE and not only do I always have my phone with me, and charged. I have an older one in a heavy duty case dedicated to the ballistic calculator task. If lost or destroyed it wouldn't cost more than about 60 bucks to replace. With the phone radio shut off it will last on standby in excess of a week and on max brightness in the sun I can get many hours of continuous use. Consider you only need it for a minute or two at a time.

There are additional benefits of the phone version like the wind clock, multiple rifle and ammo profiles, the same bullet library, and syncing of files.

If I can send in a regular 4500nvBT and have it flashed to the applied ballistics version, tell me where and how much, that's a viable option in my mind. 400 bucks for a 30 dollar ballistic solver may not make as much sense for those of us not going to Afghanistan.

Again, no offense intended, just voicing a point of view and opinion. If Kestrel can update my unit for a fee, that's a great service I think will see a lot of business and its an option that makes sense for those of us operating in a recreational, competition, or hunting setting as opposed to a combat scenario.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug@Blackhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My company picked the Kestrel line at the Shot Show, we have 12 units on order if I can help you out let me know. Our shop is in San Marcos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you take pre-orders without a price point? </div></div> </div></div>

Thanks, Doug. Legislature is in session again. I hope I don't end up going to Austin a lot as a result, but if I do, I will be passing through San Marcos quite a bit. I will look you up.

If those prices are right, I will need to see it and play with it. I am all for consolidating devices. I have Shooter on my smart phone, but the BT doesn't always work right.

Still, $300 is a bit steep. Hopefully, Bryan is getting paid well for this. He deserves a big chunk of change for his work in BC measurement.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The operating temperatures and battery life of a smartphone don't even contest with the Kestrel unit.
Plus my smartphone costs 600 plus dollars and its not covered by a warranty. Throw in an app and that's a 630.00 device that isn't mil spec.

As for trade in prices I can't dictate that but I will talk with them to see what more they can offer. </div></div>

I think the best thing to compare it to is Loadbase from Patagonia. That costs $150 without the PDA device. You have to get a windows mobile platform, which pretty much means you need a dedicated device. By the time you spend the money on Loadbase and a device, you are out at least $300 and you have an extra device.

Comparing this to Shooter + Kestrel, no doubt, that is a cheaper system. HOWEVER, if you have used the Bluetooth Kestrel and with an Android phone, you know that it is a PITA to get the data loaded up from the Kestrel. Far better than manually tying in the parameters, but still a PITA.

Most the time, if I get an Internet signal, I just pull from the nearest weather station, but I shoot on some pretty flat ground, so that works for me. For people in the mountains, the weather station might have a significantly different elevation, causing you to be off. Plus, I can't always get an Internet signal, and it takes a while for my phone to lock in a GPS.

Put all those things together, and an integrated device starts to make a whole lot of sense. And not just for field shooting or tactical comps.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

There is no fee to update your software.

I agree that using your smartphone is convenient and in today's world, it's always with you. Again though, if I was on a call out or rolling outside the wire overseas, I'm going to rely on a device that is mil spec and has outstanding battery life. My PCC and gun uploads are already in place before I leave the wire.

We're working on incorporating a location chip and inclinometer built into the Kestrel to really give you the "all in one" device. Include that with continuous atmospheric feeds that update your firing solution automaticity, that's a winning combo.

Again, the more you voice your concern to Kestrel the better. This company listens to the consumer and I will pass this along to the top.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Trade in values by Kestrel were an absolute joke. $168 for trade in of a brand new 4500NV with Bluetooth.

Yeah right..
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

You keep saying no fee to update your software. I'm talking about flashing a regular 4500nvBT that has all the bells and whistles but no ballistic feature and flashing the ballistic software package onto it. I don't work at Kestrel but I doubt the devices are different internally, just a different software package running on the unit.

Find a way to charge a reasonable fee, say 150.00 for the flash, and not only do you push people to buy 4500 models but it lessens the sting to the wallet going to a ballistic model.

Rich
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

How could I forget?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Please support Mac OSX !</span>
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Ill make some phone calls today and voice everyone's concern on the trade in and being able to update a 4500 BT to a Applied Ballistics or Horus model. I should have a response posted later today.


Mac support is coming as well, along with Bluetooth support for iPhones.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Good work!

I sent an email message to Meg to find out how to get in line for one.

Now for the 52" wide screen model with remote control and a Lazy Boy recliner!

[laughing]
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Ill see what I can do about that... I did work at Best Buy before I joined the Army
wink.gif
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

I was offered $174 for my 4500 and was not happy about that. It's about a year old and I'd be losing quite a bit on the trade in. That's why I didn't order the new version.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

GasGun, happen to know if the new ATRAG version supports G7 bc's? That and a scope starting value would be awesome. I shoot a DTA SRS with 3 calibers and being able to program my scope zero offsets and have the software add them in for me would be a major win.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

I have recieved answers.

We cannot change a 4500 model into a 4500 model with Applied Ballistics or Horus Atrag. The 4500 basic models have an older processor that physically can't hold that amount of new data. They would need a completly new unit.

Trade in value is being brought up. Again, every model we get is restored and donated to AmericanSnipers.org

I can honestly say our snipers need equipment and when I was overseas with my sniper section, we faced that familiar challenge and donations were a godsend.

Horus is working on G7 and when that update is available, simply send your units in and we will update them and mail them back.

Kestrel monitors these threads so please continue to share your concerns and suggestions.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have recieved answers.

We cannot change a 4500 model into a 4500 model with Applied Ballistics or Horus Atrag. The 4500 basic models have an older processor that physically can't hold that amount of new data. They would need a completly new unit.
</div></div>

When you say basic are you referring to ALL 4500 units, certain ones manufactured before a given date, 4500 units WITHOUT BT and NV?

Again, I want to stress I'm voicing an opinion more so you can relay it to Kestrel than anything, and I'm not trying to argue or complain with you. We have a good thing here because you seem to have a direct line with them, I think that's why you are seeing the honesty here, we hope it does get back to them.

I've bought 2 Kestrel units now and I love them. It's a great tool. I'll not be buying a ballistics model, AB or Horus, unless they can make the purchase reasonable. We've been over what goes into making those features available, I understand I'm not going to pay 350 for a 4500nvBT and pay another 30 bucks and get the AB Ballistic model just because the phone app is 30 bucks.

However, I'll say this again, 400 bucks for convenience is pretty steep. Particularly when you take into account that I won't get anything close to the 350 I already put into a 4500 with BT and NV on a trade in, or a private sale. I think I could sell a 4500nvBT hardly used for maybe 250-275 here if I'm lucky. So the cost of going from Kestrel + Old Phone in Otterbox for competitions is going to be upwards of 450-500 dollars. JUST to have both the Kestrel and the calculator on the same device.

Does that seem reasonable? Maybe a better trade in price, or maybe some discounted pricing for repeat customers, I dunno, something. If I'm not going to the sandbox, there's better things I could spend that money on. Ammo and registration fees for competitions to name a few.

Thanks for bearing with us through some of the passionate 'suggesting' going on here.

Rich
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

I don't want to beat up on you either Gas Gun and agree with Rich. I was going to try and sell mine privately too but saw where they were advertising a 4500 on ebay starting at $150. After that I just gave up. I've got good DOPE and will stick to what I have and move on.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

GasGun thanks for your help and i do understand all the particulars im retired Army and looking for a one in all application for me to military spec and own nothing currently but as in all things electronic evolution happens
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Yes 4500 NV BT. This was what I was told. If you need an answer more on the spec sheet side ill try to gather that information for you.

I understand your frustration and again they are looking into it. No harm no foul. I appreciate the honesty and hopefully solutions can be created.

My honest opinion on Kestrel and before they took me on board Is that I truly love this device and I have always had a Kestrel in my kit since I became a sniper.

When I went upto Kestrels main HQ for my interview I was blown away by the knowledge the team and Alix had on ballistics and understanding the importance of this device to the shooting community. Kestrel has sent members to shoot with Todd at his 360 courses and they have an active line of communication with DOD schoolhouses throughout the nation.

That is why I say please post your gripes, suggestions, AAR's ext.. So they can continue to build a product that goes to the front line with our snipers.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've bought 2 Kestrel units now and I love them. It's a great tool. I'll not be buying a ballistics model, AB or Horus, unless they can make the purchase reasonable. We've been over what goes into making those features available, I understand I'm not going to pay 350 for a 4500nvBT and pay another 30 bucks and get the AB Ballistic model just because the phone app is 30 bucks.

However, I'll say this again, 400 bucks for convenience is pretty steep. Particularly when you take into account that I won't get anything close to the 350 I already put into a 4500 with BT and NV on a trade in, or a private sale. I think I could sell a 4500nvBT hardly used for maybe 250-275 here if I'm lucky. So the cost of going from Kestrel + Old Phone in Otterbox for competitions is going to be upwards of 450-500 dollars. JUST to have both the Kestrel and the calculator on the same device.
</div></div>

The price point is what it is and consumers will vote with their wallets. I think it is important to note that people like the features, they just may not be willing to pay the price asked.

On the other hand, Gas Gun pointed out that this is not a simple software rewrite. They did have to redesign the hardware as well.

One thing to remember about new technologies is that they tend to be expensive at first and then come down in price as more solutions come available to the market and the cost of the original R&D gets amortized over all of the units sold.

Great demand for these units might cause price to drop as Kestrel gets more efficient at manufacture and perhaps are able to buy the memory chips for cheaper. So the development of this unit is great news... even for those of us who can't currently afford to buy the unit at the going rate.

Personally, I would rather see a really good solution that I can't afford than a really poor attempt at a solution that I can afford but probably wouldn't be willing to pay for. Prices (on electronics and high technology, at least) tend to come down over time. I know that is not everyone's experiences with AI AW's and S&B scopes, but look for instance, at rangefinders. The Swaro and the Leica 1600 have dipped in price over the last couple of years, the Bushnell ARC series has been introduced at an even lower price-point with functionality that you used to have to pay a much higher price point to obtain.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

I too don't understand what the big deal is. I'm not tring to be a stick in the mud. The interface is the key, if it does not have a touch screen it's cumbersome old tech.

I have a 4500 and like it. I use it with shooter with a $30 iPhone 3 and a otter box. iPhone has no service and is dedicated to the range bag.

Shooter is fast and easy to use and it backs up your profiles on the web.

As fast as shooter is sometimes I wish it was faster in a match. If the new kestrel uses the same old menu/buttons of the 4500 I will pass.

"Great demand for these units might cause price to drop as Kestrel gets more efficient at manufacture and perhaps are able to buy the memory chips for cheaper. So the development of this unit is great news... even for those of us who can't currently afford to buy the unit at the going rate.

Personally, I would rather see a really good solution that I can't afford than a really poor attempt at a solution that I can afford but probably wouldn't be willing to pay for. Prices (on electronics and high technology, at least) tend to come down over time. I know that is not everyone's experiences with AI AW's and S&B scopes, but look for instance, at rangefinders. The Swaro and the Leica 1600 have dipped in price over the last couple of years, the Bushnell ARC series has been introduced at an even lower price-point with functionality that you used to have to pay a much higher price point to obtain."

I agree with you, but the "build a better mouse trap" system will catch up to kestrel. All these "great improvements" are moving at a snails pace and they are just combining two pieces of gear into one.

The main problem is EVERYBODY is using a iPhone app for their BC and there are many to choose from. People are used to the easy interface,( it's all they have ever used) and its hard to go back to a clunky old interface... Would you stop using your iPhone and get a old Motorola Razor? Because it was smaller.

I've said it before, when a company designs a inexpensive snap on case/device onto a iPhone that has a wind meter, temp sensor, etc. kestrel will be left in the dust...or they could develop it.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

Show me a smartphone that has better battery life and better operational temperature range then a Kestrel?

Second, you say a kestrel is cumbersome and isn't capable of hanging with the "smartphones" during a match? I used a HorusKestrel in last years International sniper comp and managed a top 10 finish, even placed 1st in two events. The Irish used it as well and placed 2nd overall. What's so cumbersome about a Kestrel? I like the KISS principle.

Let me know how that smartphone holds up in the Stan or class after class at USASS or SOTIC.

Combining pieces of equipment is a godsend to snipers. I don't want to lug around a PDA, spare batteries, a kestrel ect..

BTW, let me know when the Smartphone links up with a Vectronix PLRF 15c for instantaneous TGT range feeds. Cause that's happening right now with 15c and Kestrels. I can range 5 targets and have five separate solutions in seconds.

Your dropping coin for a device that is proven in combat. Every sniper carries a Kestrel, and soon every sniper will carry a Kestrel with a built in firing solution.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

GasGun I am looking quite forward to getting my hands on the Kestrel AP model!!!!
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Show me a smartphone that has better battery life and better operational temperature range then a Kestrel?

Second, you say a kestrel is cumbersome and isn't capable of hanging with the "smartphones" during a match? I used a HorusKestrel in last years International sniper comp and managed a top 10 finish, even placed 1st in two events. The Irish used it as well and placed 2nd overall. What's so cumbersome about a Kestrel? I like the KISS principle.

Let me know how that smartphone holds up in the Stan or class after class at USASS or SOTIC.

Combining pieces of equipment is a godsend to snipers. I don't want to lug around a PDA, spare batteries, a kestrel ect..

BTW, let me know when the Smartphone links up with a Vectronix PLRF 15c for instantaneous TGT range feeds. Cause that's happening right now with 15c and Kestrels. I can range 5 targets and have five separate solutions in seconds.

Your dropping coin for a device that is proven in combat. Every sniper carries a Kestrel, and soon every sniper will carry a Kestrel with a built in firing solution.

</div></div>

I'm not saying bad things about the kestrel I have one as stated above and love it. I realize its a proven piece of gear, that's why I bought it.

All your points are great to a military sniper, but 99.9% of people on this board are not snipers.

They all have smart phones, and can charge them in the truck before the match/ hunt. And will have the phone on them anyway.

Is there a video/pictures of the new model anywhere?
Again I'm not dissing the new model and will like to try one out.
But the price point is high for your average shooter that already has software and has to carry a phone anyway.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

I'm sorry if I came off an asshole, wasnt my intent. I understand your concern and I agree with you that the smartphone is being used by the majority.

What were trying to do is to make that all in one device for every shooter. That's why we're looking into options like GPS, inclinometer, AA use, and a smoother software program.

With Bryan Litz coming on board, I really feel that brings an expert in that is very passionate about the shooting community and I'm excited to see what his model will bring.

As for price, what would be your price point range? Also please list some features that you would like to see, such as larger screen, touch support ect..

The Kestrel team constantly monitors these boards and discuss people's concerns in their meetings so the right amount of convincing could work.

Ill be glad to get some pics and videos up here soon.
 
Re: SHOT SHOW 2013! Huge News from Kestrel!

I have a POS phone from Verison so I'll take the Kestrel anyday. Just at a better trade in.
grin.gif
 
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