Thoughts on switch barrel systems....tell me I'm wrong...

[garandman]

...and why.

I don't own one, but here's my thoughts / suspicions....

I like the idea of picking up a rifle that's ready to fire at the distance I sighted it in at. The switch barrel feature means re-adjusting the scope for zero whenever you change calibers.

And there's just no way a switch barrel system will hold its zero the way a fixed barrel rifle will.

Only having to buy one glass is nice, and the compactness is a definite selling point. The total cost for the chassis with two different barrels really isn't that much less than 2 rifles.

Its a neat gadget, but doesn't lend itself to the reason I buy a rifle - extreme, exacting repeatable accuracy on the spot.

 

[Willys46]

.

And there's just no way a switch barrel system will hold its zero the way a fixed barrel rifle will.

.

I'm not sure what you mean with this line, but a switch barrel can be and should be just as accurate and hold zero. Sure you have to adjust the scope when you switch barrels, but it should hold zero just fine.

Heck most the Benchrest guys have theirs setup as switch barrels and they seem to shoot well.

 

[mikeltee]

Do a little research on desert tactical arms. They have what you need. They hold zero, and when changing calibers, you are only going to be a couple MOA off in most instances. I'm not sure if that came out right so ill explain it a little better.

I have a covert in 308 and 338. When changing 308 to 338, I need to adjust 1 MOA. When my gun is in 308 and I remove my barrel to clean it then reattach it, there is no change to the scope needed. Most people zero their scopes to a caliber then just add in the MOA change when switching barrels instead of rezeroing.

 

[garandman]

I'm not sure what you mean with this line, but a switch barrel can be and should be just as accurate and hold zero. Sure you have to adjust the scope when you switch barrels, but it should hold zero just fine.

\.

Switching barrels introduces variables the fixed barrel system doesn't experience:

1. Both barrels have to be machined the same to 1 ten- thousandth
2. The barrel has to be re-inserted / re-aligned / tightened down exactly the same every time
3. Changing barrels allows for introducing even microscopic debris into the system, that can cause mis-alignment.
4. Wear over time introduces more variables.

These may be ONLY theoretical problems, but they are potential problems....that I'd rather not worry about.


I'd rather not get into specific manufacturers, but I don't believe marketing materials from sellers. I prefer logical analysis adjusted by real world experience.

 

[garandman]

I have a covert in 308 and 338. When changing 308 to 338, I need to adjust 1 MOA. .

At what distance?

 

[SingleShot85]

I've switched the barrels on my AE several times from 308-6mmCM-308 and back to 6mmCM. the system is money every time...... but it is possible it's me that is money.......

 

[Jhnmdahl]

I wouldn't worry about screwing different barrels on and off reducing a rifle's ability to hold zero. It may not be exactly, precisely the zero that it had before, but it should still be rock stable assuming no other problems.

 

[garandman]

I've switched the barrels on my AE several times from 308-6mmCM-308 and back to 6mmCM. the system is money every time...... but it is possible it's me that is money.......

Please define "the system is 'money' ".

Any adjustments necessary?
At what distance zeroed?
Any adjustments to zero when switching calibers? Windage? Elevation?
The .308 prints exactly the same place as it did before you switched to 6mm? At what distance?
How many times have you switched? How old is the gun?

I'm not trying to convince anyone they shouldn't have bought one. I'm mostly testing my theories for not buying one.

 

[jsimonh]

I went back and forth with this one myself for quite a while. I ended up building a nice short barrel 308 and my custom Deviant is being built right now. It came down to being able to reach in my pack and pull a gun ready to go out and shoot. The only thing I have to switch over will be my suppresor if it ever shows up.

 

[Deadshot2]

I wouldn't worry about screwing different barrels on and off reducing a rifle's ability to hold zero. It may not be exactly, precisely the zero that it had before, but it should still be rock stable assuming no other problems.

Asked this question at Benchmark when I picked up my new barrel. They pointed out that wear on the threads, both barrel and action, will degrade the accuracy over time.

According to them, the best action for barrel switching is the Savage which was designed with this in mind.

 

[mcfred]

My 'switch barrel' M700 clone uses a few cartridges that all use the same bolt face. All I need to swap them around is an a 3/16" allen wrench, action wrench/vice, and torque wrench and about 5 minutes. Personally, I don't think it's practical to switch things around in the field, but I've not had any issue switching barrels, grabbing a different dope card and a box of ammo and going to the range and have it be off-zero.

I see it like this. I can have another barrel chambered and fitted to a receiver for $400 and everything's the same except the dope card. You only have to learn one rifle. It's the same trigger, same scope and reticle, same stock/ergonomics, same bipod. Only the numbers you dial on the scope are a little different. If you're only going to need the one 16" suppressed .308WIn for the next 50 years then don't worry about switch barrels setups. If you go plinking, hunting, bench rest shooting or tactical matches or F-class shooting then it's cheaper when you've got a variety of cartridges and one gun.

As for wear and tear. If you wear out a receiver from screwing a barrel in and out you need to see your psychologist about your Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and I would like to see actual proof that accuracy degrades.

 

[SingleShot85]

I cant say for sure if either printed the same because I switched optics on the switch back to 308 and then the mount when back to 6mmCM, but I did pull the 308 barrel and put it right back on just to see if it was a whip'n, I got to say if it was off it wasn't memorable, It wasn't like WTF......

zeroing at the standard 100yrds.

I will say this when, I switched the first time from 308 to 6mm the only adjustment I had to make was down in elevation, rt and left was dead on. I would not consider that a negative as there is no way you could carry the same zero between two different calibers.

Rifle is just over a year old.

 

[Willys46]

Looks like you have made up your mind on building to guns, but I shoot with the national 1000 yrd benchrest guy and he will switch barrels two times in a day and he sees no issues. Heck if he is stressing the threads the action should be worn out by now.

If your talking about tactical shooting I would wager that you would never see ANY practical difference between building two guns vs a switch barrel. You will have to re set your scope but it would be repeatable. Just like your change of impact when screwing on a can.

Yes you can stress the threads, but you should be putting them on with a tourque wrench and not over tighten them.

It is possible and done all the time. I bet you will find yourself like me and set up a switch barrel and enjoy shooting one barrel over the other and not switch as often as you think you will.
Why shoot a 308 when a 6-47 is so much more fun!

 

[Chiller]

More than anything it comes down to what are you trying to accomplish. If you are trying for ABSOLUTE accuracy you are correct. Set it and forget it. If you are trying for tactical accuracy then there are systems out there that will keep you plenty tight.

The AI being money is that you could buy a factory AI barrel (AIAW or AIAX not sure on the AE) spin it on and go to war. That being said, the AIAW, AIAX, AIAE are in fact that...."go to war" firearms.

 

[garandman]

zeroing at the standard 100yrds.

.

My intended application would be 6.5CM (out to 1000, zeroed at 200) and 338 ( out to 1 mile, zeroed at 500)

My ballistic calculator says at 500 there's over 5" difference in drop btwn the 338 and 6.5CM. At 1000, its 2 feet. Knowing me, I'd forget which barrel I got the scope dialed for, and being 5" to 2 feet off is too much for me. I'm a simple man...

 

[E. Bryant]

Switching barrels introduces variables the fixed barrel system doesn't experience:

1. Both barrels have to be machined the same to 1 ten- thousandth
2. The barrel has to be re-inserted / re-aligned / tightened down exactly the same every time
3. Changing barrels allows for introducing even microscopic debris into the system, that can cause mis-alignment.
4. Wear over time introduces more variables.

These may be ONLY theoretical problems, but they are potential problems....that I'd rather not worry about.

The internet is the best place to get loud, strong, confident opinions from people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Interesting.

 

[SingleShot85]

what your looking for, as it seems to me, is to be able to change between two different calibers, and use the same zero, slash dope setting???? if this correct it has nothing to do with weather a switch barrel rifle is more or less accurate than on dedicated rifle caliber. All guns are switch barrel guns, some require your gunsmith to do it and other don't. What your wanting is totally different.

 

[garandman]

Interesting.

Are you aware of the difference between a "loud, strong confident opinion" and a "suspicion?"

RIF

 

[garandman]

what your looking for, as it seems to me, is to be able to change between two different calibers, and use the same zero, slash dope setting???? if this correct it has nothing to do with weather a switch barrel rifle is more or less accurate than on dedicated rifle caliber. All guns are switch barrel guns, some require your gunsmith to do it and other don't. What your wanting is totally different.

Honestly, I think I just don't like introducing the variables I mentioned above into my rifles, because my gig is exacting accuracy. I really don't care what any manufacturers claim - you start swapping parts, yer gonna get SOME negative affect on accuracy. Might be tiny, might be major, but you will get some.

Different zeroes is a lesser concern, but still relevant, IMO.

 

[Captain Kirk]

If you are interested in building one, consider what the applications are, and why you need to change calibers. I cant tell you how many shooters I know that have built switch barrel setups and never change barrels, I think it all comes down to having confidence in the system, or lack of. Many actions have integral recoil lugs or you can pin a Rem lug to do a switch barrel. If you have the proper action wrench, you can usually remove and reinstall the barrel without removing it from the stock/chassis.

Systems such as the DTA and LMTs have a pinch barrel design, no threads to worry about and the contact area between barrel and action/receiver is much greater, which provides a more consistant return to zero. Removing a barrel is similar to removing and reinstalling a scope and rings, it depends on the precision of the interface, and requires the operator to reinstall it the same everytime or you will not return to zero, and even then there will most likely be a slight correction needed.

 

[mcfred]

my gig is exacting accuracy.

What's that mean? Are you a one-hole short-range benchrest shooter? How accurate is your rifle and do you always need and get your cold-bore long range shot?

My DIY switch barrel rig has QD scope rings and after re-installing the 7wsm barrel, put it back in the stock and reattaching the scope to the base, loaded up and shot it was off less than half a MOA at 200 yards. Scope pulled off, put in a box, lugged back to the house. The next day I took it back to the range, reinstalled the scope, shot a cold bore round, pulled the scope, put it back in the box and did the same thing the next day.

The 3-round group was less than .5 MOA at 200 yards after complete reassembly of a gun, 3 cold bore shots, 3 separate days, same target, shot prone off a bipod and rear bag pulling the scope each time. Is another $4000 rifle necessary to preserve your current .01 MOA rifle or is ±.5 MOA worth the money, safe real estate and trouble of dis/re-assembly?

It's your money, you do what you want.

Maybe one of these days I'll make a video of me setting up, taking a shot, totally disassembling the run, put it back together, take another shot etc. for 5 rounds. I'm confident it will hold its zero and still keep less than a MOA.

 

[biffj]

Honestly, I think I just don't like introducing the variables I mentioned above into my rifles, because my gig is exacting accuracy. I really don't care what any manufacturers claim - you start swapping parts, yer gonna get SOME negative affect on accuracy. Might be tiny, might be major, but you will get some.

Different zeroes is a lesser concern, but still relevant, IMO.

If you don't like the variables than by all means build 2 rifles to get the cals you want. I for one will deal with real world accuracy and keep my DTA SRS. I've got 4 barrels for it, 6.5X47 Lapua, .338BR, .338 Lapua Mag and 12.7X48. I change barrels all the time and each barrel has a setting that is consistent and true. I can swap out any barrel at any time and when I put one back in, set the scope to the zero for that barrel and shoot it goes right back where it did the last time and all the times before that. You might be able to measure changes with a radar, microscope or laser but in real life we don't have those tools on the range and the targets don't care anyway. If you are personally afraid of switch barrels thats absolutely fine and dandy. No one will make you buy one. On the other hand there is no need to post incorrect info about them to justify your decision. The idea that barrels need to be exact to one ten thousandth is silly, each barrel is what it is and the scope can and will compensate. Its just like any other rifle or combination of rifles. You have to work up loads and data for each rifle, why not each barrel. The thought that one scope, one trigger pull, one stock and mount to get used to is worth a lot to many of us and the absolutely miniscule differences you point out don't affect reality so aren't really a concern.

Just my 2 cents.

Frank

 

[Dogtown]

I'm in the same boat as Frank. It also makes it really easy to justify spending $3k on a top-end optic.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Switching barrels introduces variables the fixed barrel system doesn't experience:

1. Both barrels have to be machined the same to 1 ten- thousandth
2. The barrel has to be re-inserted / re-aligned / tightened down exactly the same every time
3. Changing barrels allows for introducing even microscopic debris into the system, that can cause mis-alignment.
4. Wear over time introduces more variables.

These may be ONLY theoretical problems, but they are potential problems....that I'd rather not worry about.


I'd rather not get into specific manufacturers, but I don't believe marketing materials from sellers. I prefer logical analysis adjusted by real world experience.

reference #1. False
reference #2 False
reference #3 Can be an issue for a blind man
reference #4 False

 

[Brasscow]

Honestly, I think I just don't like introducing the variables I mentioned above into my rifles, because my gig is exacting accuracy. I really don't care what any manufacturers claim - you start swapping parts, yer gonna get SOME negative affect on accuracy. Might be tiny, might be major, but you will get some.

Different zeroes is a lesser concern, but still relevant, IMO.

For a guy that has no idea what he's talking about, you sure act like you know what you're talking about despite plenty of evidence contrary to your beliefs.

Usually the purpose of a switch-barrel isn't so that you can take four barrels to the range and shoot them all that day. Maybe it's because you like to shoot 6CM when you're pushing the distance limits of your short action AX but when the competition you have coming up is calling for a .308 class you can spin the one barrel off and spin the other on, re-zero and be shooting .308 in 10 minutes. Maybe your buddy that isn't that in to guns and doesn't have his own long range rifle is coming over and wants to shoot a bit and you want to spin off a specialty barrel and throw the .308 on so you aren't shooting expensive painstakingly fire-formed & annealed brass, but instead some .308 you loaded on the dillon. Maybe you just don't feel like putting the bore-guide in and holding the whole rifle while you clean it, so you chuck the barrel in your vise and spin it off so you can run a cleaning rod through it.

From everything put away in it's place to a changed barrel on my AX and everything put back away is a hair under 5 minutes total time. I may not do it that often, but it's very nice to have the option. In fact, it's reason enough for me to buy the AX or the AW over the AE.

I guess if .5MOA at 600yds off a tactical bipod isn't accurate enough for you, you may want to go to benchrestcentral.com

Edit: and now Dave Tooley has responded, which should make it pretty evident you're way off base.

 

[mikeltee]

1 MOA is 1 MOA at any distance. You are thinking in inches. Get yourself a mil scope and soon enough you will see the big picture.

 

[18Echo]

reference #1. False
reference #2 False
reference #3 Can be an issue for a blind man
reference #4 False

I think that about covers everything on this subject.....

 

[garandman]

People sure get touchy when you question their sacred cow.

There's no talking with people who just say "False" and think that ends the discussion. And if they are business owners or 'smiths, I sure wouldn't do business with them.

So..... ya know....never mind.

 

[garandman]

For a guy that has no idea what he's talking about, you sure act like you know what you're talking about despite plenty of evidence contrary to your beliefs.

.

I'm sorry....I assumed you could read where I said (1) I don't own one, and (2) I merely have thoughts and suspicions. I never claimed to be any expert. I don't have any "beliefs" here. I have "thoguhts" that I disclaimed saying that they MAY JUST BE THEORETICAL PROBLEMS.

But if it makes you feel big being condescending and arrogant....well, its a free country.

I wish you well with that.

 

[jbell]

Not that Dave needs more reinforcement on this subject, but I completely agree.

To the OP, I think you are way over thinking the switch barrel rifle thing. The long and the short of it is: they work and work well. It don't matter if you are using a threaded barrel with an integral lug, pinned lug or no lug they are as repeatable as the pinch barrel rifles like the DTA. Hell even a Savage style jam nut system can be repeatable if you pay attention to what you are doing. Don't talk yourself out of it, I think you will be happy with the results.

 

[garandman]

If you don't like the variables than by all means build 2 rifles to get the cals you want. I for one will deal with real world accuracy and keep my DTA SRS. I've got 4 barrels for it, 6.5X47 Lapua, .338BR, .338 Lapua Mag and 12.7X48. I change barrels all the time and each barrel has a setting that is consistent and true. I can swap out any barrel at any time and when I put one back in, set the scope to the zero for that barrel and shoot it goes right back where it did the last time and all the times before that. You might be able to measure changes with a radar, microscope or laser but in real life we don't have those tools on the range and the targets don't care anyway. If you are personally afraid of switch barrels thats absolutely fine and dandy. No one will make you buy one. On the other hand there is no need to post incorrect info about them to justify your decision. The idea that barrels need to be exact to one ten thousandth is silly, each barrel is what it is and the scope can and will compensate. Its just like any other rifle or combination of rifles. You have to work up loads and data for each rifle, why not each barrel. The thought that one scope, one trigger pull, one stock and mount to get used to is worth a lot to many of us and the absolutely miniscule differences you point out don't affect reality so aren't really a concern.

Just my 2 cents.

Frank

I appreciate the first hand experience of a switch barrel owner.

I'm sorry if I posted the above as if I was making claims - I thought I sufficiently disclaimed all of it with calling them "thoughts / suspicions" and saying "these may only be theoretical problems."

And where I also said "I'm not here to criticize anyone's purchase" - merely to test my own thinking. Seems like a lot of "turf defending" going on here.

 

[garandman]

Thanx, jbell, that's a helpful post. I've been know to overthink things on occasion.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

People sure get touchy when you question their sacred cow.

There's no talking with people who just say "False" and think that ends the discussion. And if they are business owners or 'smiths, I sure wouldn't do business with them.

So..... ya know....never mind.

If I was answering you like this then you would be correct in all your assumptions. I really don't think you have any idea WHO you are talking to here.

If Dave Tooley answers you like this, and he has, you say "yes sir" and move on. I am not some gushing sycophant either. I am not a fan of a switch barrel rifle because I don't need one. If I still played BR games I would definately have one. If I was some military operator I may also need one. Neither of those things mean there is anything wrong with the system if that is what you need.

 

[biffj]

As with all internet boards you get out what you put in. Your original posts sounded like you were an expert stating that switch barrels were no good. With a statement like that you'll get some backlash. I didn't intend my post as adversarial so much as educational. Hope it was taken that way. Everyone starts out from ignorance and works toward knowledge. After spending some time gaining that knowledge many take offense easily. Just remember we can't eat you.....take it all with a grain of salt, it tastes better that way.


Frank

 

[garandman]

If I was answering you like this then you would be correct in all your assumptions. I really don't think you have any idea WHO you are talking to here.

If Dave Tooley answers you like this, and he has, you say "yes sir" and move on..

I don't care if his name was Samuel Colt.

I take "Do it cuz I said so" from the Lord God, and none other. I expect explanation / justification from all others. Its my money, and that's the way I play the game.

I don't know if you are putting words in his mouth, but if he expects me to react with "Yes, sir" and move on, then he has some learnin' to do. But he need never worry about cashing my checks.

 

[garandman]

As with all internet boards you get out what you put in. Your original posts sounded like you were an expert stating that switch barrels were no good.
Frank

I see now that's the way it was taken by some (not all.) I'm not sure how much more than the THREE disclaimers I put on my "suspicions" as well as the positive comments I made about the switch barrel system are necessary to accurate convey my "thoughts"

Seems like there more than a few hair triggers in the switch barrel crowd. Don't ever dare have "thoughts / suspicions" about the system, or they will land on you like a ton of bricks.

 

[sib1948]

Sounds like you would find some issue with any switch barrel system you would buy, so just get two rifles and be happy! Shooting should be fun and NOT an anxiety evoking experience. I love my DTA SRS A1 and always enjoy shooting my 260, 308 & 338 conversions! Not your cup of tea, but works for me. I hope you don't plan to do any reoloading-talk about variables!

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I don't care if his name was Samuel Colt.

I take "Do it cuz I said so" from the Lord God, and none other. I expect explanation / justification from all others. Its my money, and that's the way I play the game.

I don't know if you are putting words in his mouth, but if he expects me to react with "Yes, sir" and move on, then he has some learnin' to do. But he need never worry about cashing my checks.

I am not speaking for Dave nor putting words in his mouth, absolutely not. I am giving you advice as a person who knows Dave, knows guys that Dave has taught, and has spent more than a few hours in a gunsmiths shop, and am also close personal friends with one of the best smiths I have ever had build me a gun. I can tell you this, you will be very lucky to get a smith i know to build you a gun if you keep your attitude.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

OK
Here goes.

35 years of shooting switch barrel rifles. 30 years of building switch barrel rifles. Over 200 switch barrel multicaliber systems in just the past two years.

You ask a question and then debate the answers from what appears to be a preconceived position. A little sensitive, possibly.

I quote "I prefer logical analysis adjusted by real world experience. "

In the end the only truth is what the target tells you.

If you would like to discuss this I'll be in the shop next week.

 

[Backspace]

I think this video should get rid of any doubts.
They basically take the entire aw apart and it still shoots a respectable group after it all. This is part 2 but I didn't find part 1 right off the bat but it is there.

Accuracy International rifle Demo pt2 - YouTube

 

[mouse07410]

OK, I'll bite.

Dave Tooley, biffj, and others covered the technical part quite well already. The following should concisely sum it all up (including practical recommendations), I hope.

I like the idea of picking up a rifle that's ready to fire at the distance I sighted it in at. The switch barrel feature means re-adjusting the scope for zero whenever you change calibers.

Yes. Each barrel has its own zero - so while you don't need to re-zero, you have to adjust the scope or keep track of the difference. I'm doing this, and it's not a big deal for me. If it is for you - stay away from switch barrel systems.

And there's just no way a switch barrel system will hold its zero the way a fixed barrel rifle will.

Correct. However the difference (in good systems like AX and DTA) is far smaller than a good shooter could observe or be affected by. In other words, this difference does not cross from the realm of theory to the real world (where the rifle itself prints inside 0.5 MOA, not inside 0.01 MOA), and does not affect the practical accuracy (as observed and reported by good shooters here on SH). I haven't seen you shoot, but it is unlikely that in this life you'd outshoot either AX or DTA accuracy-wise, switch-barrel or not. On the other hand, if a sub-half-MOA switch barrel isn't accurate enough for you - by all means go buy or build a more precise rifle that's not a switch barrel system.

The total cost for the chassis with two different barrels really isn't that much less than 2 rifles.

Depends on the rifles. Do they have to be reliable and able to function in tough environments, like AX? If so, it would cost you extra. I seem to recall you asking about AR-30 in 338LM, and got back the cost of TRG42 around $3500, AWSM around $4000-$5000, AX 338 around $6850... Now double or triple this, and tell me that one chassis and two or three barrels "aren't much less" than $8000-$15000 (two or three systems). And we haven't addressed the scope issue yet - how many scopes are you planning to put on your multiple rifles, and how much would each of them cost? If your goal is "exacting accuracy" you can't settle for a cheap junk-scope, and good glass costs an arm and a leg, as I'm sure you know. If you plan to move one good scope between the rifles and re-zero (for your own logic assures/asserts that nothing can maintain its zero when moved ), then why is it any better than the absolute worst case with switch barrel (when for whatever reason you have to re-zero)? In any case, to each his own. If you'd rather deal with several rifles each in its own caliber, and think it wouldn't cost much more dough that way - it suits me just fine. Go for it. Here's another advantage of keeping multiple rifles: you can lend one to your neighbor and still have something to shoot with.

Its a neat gadget, but doesn't lend itself to the reason I buy a rifle - extreme, exacting repeatable accuracy on the spot.

"Extreme, exacting, repeatable accuracy on the spot" is exactly what I am getting from my DTA. I concede that switch barrel or not - I cannot outshoot it. But you convinced me - you don't need a switch barrel rifle. Go and buy a set of individual chassis for each caliber and barrel length you want to use.

My intended application would be 6.5CM (out to 1000, zeroed at 200) and 338 ( out to 1 mile, zeroed at 500)

My ballistic calculator says at 500 there's over 5" difference in drop btwn the 338 and 6.5CM. At 1000, its 2 feet. Knowing me, I'd forget which barrel I got the scope dialed for, and being 5" to 2 feet off is too much for me. I'm a simple man...

In that case absolutely stay away from switch barrel systems, they are bound to be too complicated for you.

I shudder to think what it must take to keep track of the dope for each load in each caliber for each rifle.

Of course for those of us who thrive on difficulties, scope adjustment is a part of the caliber switch procedure: replace the bolt, replace the barrel, re-torque the holding screws, adjust the scope for the new caliber. Like a checklist: a new barrel gets in - the scope gets adjusted, right then and there.

 

[Dogtown]

I take "Do it cuz I said so" from the Lord God, and none other.

 

[sandwarrior]

If you don't like the variables than by all means build 2 rifles to get the cals you want. I for one will deal with real world accuracy and keep my DTA SRS. I've got 4 barrels for it, 6.5X47 Lapua, .338BR, .338 Lapua Mag and 12.7X48. I change barrels all the time and each barrel has a setting that is consistent and true. I can swap out any barrel at any time and when I put one back in, set the scope to the zero for that barrel and shoot it goes right back where it did the last time and all the times before that. You might be able to measure changes with a radar, microscope or laser but in real life we don't have those tools on the range and the targets don't care anyway. If you are personally afraid of switch barrels thats absolutely fine and dandy. No one will make you buy one. On the other hand there is no need to post incorrect info about them to justify your decision. The idea that barrels need to be exact to one ten thousandth is silly, each barrel is what it is and the scope can and will compensate. Its just like any other rifle or combination of rifles. You have to work up loads and data for each rifle, why not each barrel. The thought that one scope, one trigger pull, one stock and mount to get used to is worth a lot to many of us and the absolutely miniscule differences you point out don't affect reality so aren't really a concern.

Just my 2 cents.

Frank

Garandman,

This right here explains it. Switch barrels are as accurate as the maker can make them. Which is as good as the top accuracy rifles in the world. An accurately made system is going to shoot accurately. A poorly made (or wide tolerances) is going to give you....well, "hunting accuracy".

The thing that biffj explains is each barrel goes in under a high precision machined tolerance and therefore holds tolerances at the other end of the range.

He also goes on to explain how each barrel is tested and the scope settings are pre-determined where to move to for zero. This doesn't have to be a blind, "basic trainee" zero. We've all been down the road a ways now and ought to know how we each set our systems up for what we use them for. On a very good scope he can turn the scope to the new pre-determined caliber he just installed and check it. If the whole system has been made accurately on the machines it's a matter of simply adjusting for basic zero of the new caliber.

Believe it or not, you don't lose accuracy by just switching barrels. You lose accuracy when you interject junk into your action and when you run high pressures through without torques of barrels and fasteners being correct. If they are correct to begin with, they don't stretch. What you're saying in concept may make sense to those who have not seen it. But, we see sub-thousandths accuracy every single day [delete:shooting] making switch barrels and even swapping the tooling we use to cut them.

All that said, I've yet to see a true "high accuracy" multi-barrel system come in less expensive than two rifles of equal capability. What I have seen them do is save a lot of space. As far as cost on optics, I usually have seen different barrels have different niche needs filled. Therefore optics are usually different, which doesn't save cost.

 

[mouse07410]

All that said, I've yet to see a true "high accuracy" multi-barrel system come in less expensive than two rifles of equal capability. What I have seen them do is save a lot of space.

In your opinion, why is it? Does the chassis cost so much (because a caliber kit seems to be in the ballpark of $1200-$1500)? Could you please give some examples to illustrate your point?

As far as cost on optics, I usually have seen different barrels have different niche needs filled. Therefore optics are usually different, which doesn't save cost.

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning. I'd appreciate some examples, that would help me understand why when my application requires me to switch caliber I'd need to switch the scope as well. For example, I have a precision switch barrel system that is saddled with Razor HD 5-20x50 (or as others have it - with S&B 5-25x56). I swap calibers from 260 Rem to 338 LM. Why would I have to change the scope?

I'm not debating your points (not yet, anyway ), just trying first to understand the reasoning and the facts behind them.

 

[alfson]

Has anyone done any serious range testing of the Thompson Center Dimension switch- barrel rifle systems? I have been looking at them ( no way I will ever have the money for a DTA or AI). The big problem I see is that with the exception (maybe) of the 300 Win Mag all of the barrels they offer from the factory are slow twist.

 

[Rem7targetactical]

WOW, this is the single greatest thread EVER!!!!! It has Dave Tooley and God in it!!!! Heyyyy, wait a minute..... I thought Dave Tooley was God?!?!?!?!? Ok, now I'm confused!

 

[garandman]

WOW, this is the single greatest thread EVER!!!!! It has Dave Tooley and God in it!!!! Heyyyy, wait a minute..... I thought Dave Tooley was God?!?!?!?!? Ok, now I'm confused!

armorpl8chicken CLEARLY thinks he's God.

Dave Tooley (on his second post) just knows himself to be a person with a lot of experience with switch barrel systems. And I can respect that. And learn from it.

The latter part of this thread has some REALLY good content and explanation of the subject. And I appreciate it.

The condescending, arrogant stuff that went before it? Not so much....

 

[garandman]

That's not a picture of God. Its a picture of Jethro Tull.

 

[sib1948]

Live and learn. I hope to learn new things everyday! That's what a good life is all about-along with Family, God and Country. I hope you enjoy whichever route you decide to pursue!

 

[garandman]

Garandman,

Switch barrels are as accurate as the maker can make them.

You lose accuracy when you interject junk into your action

and when you run high pressures through without torques of barrels and fasteners being correct.

The above actually are what I stated early on... summed up this way - "Any variation at the muzzle between barrels, and using the same scope, WILL result in variations on target. The greater the distance, the greater the variation.

All that said, I've yet to see a true "high accuracy" multi-barrel system come in less expensive than two rifles of equal capability. What I have seen them do is save a lot of space. As far as cost on optics, I usually have seen different barrels have different niche needs filled. Therefore optics are usually different, which doesn't save cost.

This is the part I don't understand. I thought the whole point of a switch barrel is to use 1 scope - as was said above, thereby justifying / allowing for purchase of a single, high dollar scope.