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What the Royal Fuck is going on...

I doubt LowLight is a master coder either (perhaps a master bater). He probably bought components and paid coders to customize. It is a very well constructed site (in my professional opinion) and probably isn't cheap. That means there are financial realities that have to be faced. And Frank is trying to grow the sport with new people not just provide a safe-space for a collection of 50 old experts to be locked in a incestous circle jerk for all eternity.

And what a clusterfuck it would be to try and even manage what you are suggesting. Who is going to have to wade through the documentation to vet someone that wants to post. How are those documents going to be transmitted? How do you verify their authenticity? What qualifies and what doesn't? Who gets to decide? How do people appeal? Are there posters who have great knowledge but their current employers prevent them from identifying themselves for security reasons? They get silenced? What about a guy who has spent years developing great knowledge about shooting but has never served or competed? Does that mean he has no knowledge because he doesn't happen to have paperwork you will accept? How many grown adults would frequent a site that treats them like a Soviet checkpoint guard asking for their papers.

This site already provides you with a private Military/Law Enforcement section.

Restrict yourself to that forum. Or is that section still not elite enough for you?

Second, stay out of the Tea-Room/Bear-Pit. It is a place for bullshitting and goofing around. That seems to annoy you, so just don't go into that section. Easy fix!

Third, you have the ability to subscribe to individual users who you feel meet your standards. You'd get a notification on when they post and you could confine yourself to their content only. You can also block users who excessively annoy you.

So you really have all the tools available to restrict the content for yourself the way you seem to want. No reason to inflict that on the rest of us.

As messy as it can be sometimes, I prefer the free marketplace of ideas to a Soviet style totalitarian command economy of thought.

^^^^^^
THIS.
Or, if you get your way (not likely) you'll have about a half dozen people to play forum with.
At least half of them won't meet your bullshit standards, so maybe make that "And then there were three".

Maybe you guys could just conference call.
Maybe not. Someone's voice would probably annoy you.
This could go on and on, but you'd run out of people to push away.

You'd be left just playing with yourself...
 
Which I think is what started this all off....... :D

If you actually go back and read what started this topic, which obviously a lot of people have not bothered to do, it was FRANK bitching about the quality of material being posted or discussed "somewhere".

When that questionable material was being posted somewhere else, by someone else, all of sudden the pitch forks and torches are out. Lets burn Rex at the stake for hearsay!

I bring up questionable material being posted here, and a possible solution to help with that, and then all of sudden it is a completely different story.

It's all a bunch of BS as long as it is posted somewhere else, but everything here is all peaches and roses. NICE DOUBLE STANDARD!


Vetting people is a common everyday occurrence, I had to vet myself a number of ways in the last couple of months to get access to a number of things.

I never proposed a vetting process other than, provide some form of documentation which shows that you have some form of "credentials or experience" when it comes to precision long range shooting, or a supporting role. Hold a NRA ranking, PRS ranking, or some other form of competitive ranking. Documented prior MIL or LE service/experience. Subject matter expertise, equipment manufacturer, and the list can go on.

The point being, not every swinging dick should be granted the PRIVILEGE of posting here just because they think they need to. Going back to what started this lovely topic, PEOPLE POSTING STUPID $#!@, because they have no freaking clue what they are talking about, but they are all free and clear to do it!

Just because you can't post here, doesn't mean that you can't come here and learn. Once again, you should learn first with your eyes and ears, which anyone could do here. You don't have to be a member to read the Forums. Then once you have spent some time reading and applying what you have learned, then you will have earned/achieved some form of "credentials or experience" to show that you should be given the privilege to post.

That system would actually motivate people to go out and do something and succeed at it if they wanted the ability to post. The current system enables "key board commandos" who sit on their asses all day posting stupid $#!@ without actually having done anything other than wasting many people's time having to deal with their stupidity on the Forum.

If forum membership was to come down to only a handful of people being accepted, as many people have suggested, it wouldn't be because of any vetting process that I would have recommend. The "credentials or experience" required for access could be adjusted accordingly based on how the membership make up is going until a good balance is achieved.

If you address the problem on the front end, it would greatly cut down the exposure on the back-end. This would greatly reduce the Mods having to be police officers, baby sitters, and peace makers. If the Mods have what it takes to Moderate the forums, they just as easily have what it takes to assist with vetting new members.

You can take anything to the extreme, which is what a number of people have suggested that I am recommending, but it was NOT what I actually said.

Great example of what goes on around here on a daily basis:
TOPIC -
ID Removed said:
How many sheets of printer paper between floated barrel and stock? ...to keep the stock from contacting when the barrel heats and "walks around" (as I've read it anecdotally put)?

Question gets asked, which anyone with any degree of knowledge would not have to ask. Question has been previously asked a number of times on the forum, or could be found in numerous other resources, so the answer is there if you bother to LOOK FOR IT and READ. But why take the time to make any effort, just hit that post button, and bring me the answer on a silver platter! This is a prime reason why the retarded $#!@ that Frank was bitching about exists! People make no effort to learn from what has been proven to be tried and true.

Clueless people respond to the question with a clueless answer.
ID Removed said:
"A dollar bill is the standard measurement"
. This does nothing but perpetuate utterly useless BS, which the shooting sports are full of.

Then other members who have a clue, have to correct said clueless members.

Then this is where it gets good, what happens when the clueless members outnumber the members who actually know what they are talking about? Who do you believe? Well you have to believe me, no you have to believe me, and then the real fun gets started.

If said clueless members were not granted the privilege of posting, said clueless topics would not get started, said stupid responses would not get made, and members would not have to take the time to correct said stupid information.

I have watched:
- many topics where the clueless responses were pilling up, and no one in the know was responding, because they looked at the clueless topic title and just ignored it.
- clueless people, citing the posts of other clueless people, as support for their clueless arguments.
- full on wars break out in a topic because a group of clueless individuals were hell bent on not being made to look clueless and continued spouting BS until a Mod killed the train wreck of a topic.

As someone who has made their living as an Instructor for the last 15 years, I deal with this BS on a daily basis in just about everything that I do. Many students will NOT make the effort to learn from what is being offered to them, because it takes too much effort. Rather than listen to an expert, or consult a vetted source, they would rather Google the answer, because everything on the internet has to be true, and that is a hell of a lot easier to do! Which is all the SAME THING FRANK WAS BITCHING ABOUT!

It is far from being a perfect world, and it will never be. I gave my input on making improvements, which anyone is obviously free to agree or disagree with. Once again enough said!
 
LRshooter101.......you sounds like far too much of an operator to be posting here...were obviously not up to your level.......dont you have some operational operations to be operating?
 
If you actually go back and read what started this topic, which obviously a lot of people have not bothered to do, it was FRANK bitching about the quality of material being posted or discussed "somewhere".

When that questionable material was being posted somewhere else, by someone else, all of sudden the pitch forks and torches are out. Lets burn Rex at the stake for hearsay!

I bring up questionable material being posted here, and a possible solution to help with that, and then all of sudden it is a completely different story.

It's all a bunch of BS as long as it is posted somewhere else, but everything here is all peaches and roses. NICE DOUBLE STANDARD!


Vetting people is a common everyday occurrence, I had to vet myself a number of ways in the last couple of months to get access to a number of things.

I never proposed a vetting process other than, provide some form of documentation which shows that you have some form of "credentials or experience" when it comes to precision long range shooting, or a supporting role. Hold a NRA ranking, PRS ranking, or some other form of competitive ranking. Documented prior MIL or LE service/experience. Subject matter expertise, equipment manufacturer, and the list can go on.

The point being, not every swinging dick should be granted the PRIVILEGE of posting here just because they think they need to. Going back to what started this lovely topic, PEOPLE POSTING STUPID $#!@, because they have no freaking clue what they are talking about, but they are all free and clear to do it!

Just because you can't post here, doesn't mean that you can't come here and learn. Once again, you should learn first with your eyes and ears, which anyone could do here. You don't have to be a member to read the Forums. Then once you have spent some time reading and applying what you have learned, then you will have earned/achieved some form of "credentials or experience" to show that you should be given the privilege to post.

That system would actually motivate people to go out and do something and succeed at it if they wanted the ability to post. The current system enables "key board commandos" who sit on their asses all day posting stupid $#!@ without actually having done anything other than wasting many people's time having to deal with their stupidity on the Forum.

If forum membership was to come down to only a handful of people being accepted, as many people have suggested, it wouldn't be because of any vetting process that I would have recommend. The "credentials or experience" required for access could be adjusted accordingly based on how the membership make up is going until a good balance is achieved.

If you address the problem on the front end, it would greatly cut down the exposure on the back-end. This would greatly reduce the Mods having to be police officers, baby sitters, and peace makers. If the Mods have what it takes to Moderate the forums, they just as easily have what it takes to assist with vetting new members.

You can take anything to the extreme, which is what a number of people have suggested that I am recommending, but it was NOT what I actually said.

Great example of what goes on around here on a daily basis:
TOPIC -

Question gets asked, which anyone with any degree of knowledge would not have to ask. Question has been previously asked a number of times on the forum, or could be found in numerous other resources, so the answer is there if you bother to LOOK FOR IT and READ. But why take the time to make any effort, just hit that post button, and bring me the answer on a silver platter! This is a prime reason why the retarded $#!@ that Frank was bitching about exists! People make no effort to learn from what has been proven to be tried and true.

Clueless people respond to the question with a clueless answer. . This does nothing but perpetuate utterly useless BS, which the shooting sports are full of.

Then other members who have a clue, have to correct said clueless members.

Then this is where it gets good, what happens when the clueless members outnumber the members who actually know what they are talking about? Who do you believe? Well you have to believe me, no you have to believe me, and then the real fun gets started.

If said clueless members were not granted the privilege of posting, said clueless topics would not get started, said stupid responses would not get made, and members would not have to take the time to correct said stupid information.

I have watched:
- many topics where the clueless responses were pilling up, and no one in the know was responding, because they looked at the clueless topic title and just ignored it.
- clueless people, citing the posts of other clueless people, as support for their clueless arguments.
- full on wars break out in a topic because a group of clueless individuals were hell bent on not being made to look clueless and continued spouting BS until a Mod killed the train wreck of a topic.

As someone who has made their living as an Instructor for the last 15 years, I deal with this BS on a daily basis in just about everything that I do. Many students will NOT make the effort to learn from what is being offered to them, because it takes too much effort. Rather than listen to an expert, or consult a vetted source, they would rather Google the answer, because everything on the internet has to be true, and that is a hell of a lot easier to do! Which is all the SAME THING FRANK WAS BITCHING ABOUT!

It is far from being a perfect world, and it will never be. I gave my input on making improvements, which anyone is obviously free to agree or disagree with. Once again enough said!

Now I'm really confused.
Are you saying that dollar bills are not the standard but that printer paper is the standard?
If so, so you have a conversion for printer paper to dollar bills?
I do not usually take my printer when I go shooting, but I usually do have a few bucks in my pocket.
 
^^^^^^
THIS.
Or, if you get your way (not likely) you'll have about a half dozen people to play forum with.
At least half of them won't meet your bullshit standards, so maybe make that "And then there were three".

Maybe you guys could just conference call.
Maybe not. Someone's voice would probably annoy you.
This could go on and on, but you'd run out of people to push away.

You'd be left just playing with yourself...

whats wrong with that? haha.

edit:

that is why i like to drink alone. i am the only asshole there. i am the funniest guy in the room. and i always win the fight.
 
Frank,
I think LR pooper wants this to be an exclusive little country club of certified dudes and dudettes.
So, everyone needs to break out all of their "papers" so LR pooper can find his safe place.
Never mind that this documentation process might violate some local, state or Govt law or secrecy act.
Apparently he either lost his sense of humor, or never had one. < never had would be my guess.
Oh, LR pooper, don't forget about the guy just recently outed for being a liar about his "credentials".
Wasn't he supposed to be a subject matter expert?
Btw, I have read the entire thread to include the first post. Most others have also.
I stopped at your most recent post. Couldn't finish out. I thought for sure it was as long as war and peace.

Dude, give this crap a rest. The Hide will remain as is.
If you hate it this bad, well then,
BYE!!!
 
Hey I love my Savages! That does not mean I do not love my GAPs I apologize for being a piss poor writer

been around SH on and off since the beginning. Kinda stopped during Scout but that was injury surgeries related

The place has helped precision shooting get to front of line

PRS would probably not exist without SH Before SH we had Mudville Militia. We pushed F Class to front throughSH as well

Scope Manufactures made huge improvements because of SH

As to net guys arguing when they know squat I gave up. I just say You probably know best. Laugh and move on
 
This has reached the point of fucking lunacy

Lowlight is obviously qualified and capable of holding his own, especially on his own site. The number of people who feel they need to defend him from LR, who also appears to come from a pretty similar background as LL, is fucking comical. It's two grown-ass men having a difference of opinion on some shit that doesn't even really matter. They both fucking agree that there are dumb people posting dumb shit on the internet. He and LL also agree, at least tacitly, that no forum on the internet could afford to stay online if it "vetted" its members.

Sorry, let the monkey fucking continue........
 
I'm really enjoying this thread.
It's serious, It's comical and it's sad from one end to the other.
Like a book, only poorly written in some areas.

The thing I don't appreciate is a total lack of input from 1J04.
Get off yer lazy azz and post up some good memes please
 
His idea of "Improvements" are fucking stupid... period, full stop.

If Rex was talking Carbines and Handguns he would have been run off YouTube as a poser... that is a fact. There are guys who went out, took classes from the real deal guys, giving them a basic background in which they speak on, who have been run off as not being "Operator Enough". The Handgun and Carbine world is far less accepting. Even I have been to a dozen classes on top of what I did in the military. I would be teaching down at Rifles Only, fly home only to realize, there was a Pat Rodger, Larry Vickers, etc class taking place 2 days later in Pueblo and I would be there as a student. I traveled to places like Gunsite (x4), Thunder Ranch (x4) to take classes, filling my toolbox. On top of that, I not only run matches, I compete in Precision Rifle events matches, both locally and nationally... tell me how there is a Rex equivalent? Reading lines out of the 1994 TM is hardly a real background in Precision Rifle Training. Don't get me wrong, I reference the manuals too, but referencing the manuals is all that Major Plaster did with the Ultimate Sniper books. He put the information of the time in one place. Mistakes and all. That is part of the problem along with his viewers who feel that is reliable instruction. Replay the same video sequences, and read a paragraph is apparently all it takes today.

As many carbine and handgun classes I have taken, even taught, over the years, you don't see me out of my lane. Not my area of expertise.

Sure there is an element of misinformation, it's the internet, but we are much quicker to correct those problems and you won't see 20 other guys agreeing and fighting back like you do on Facebook and Youtube. The know nothing and will argue, here people will admit they are not sure, or at least understand when being corrected.

I don't care if people ask the same dumb question 3x a day. That is what copy and paste is for if someone is too lazy to look for an answer (99% out there) fuck it, just copy and paste the answer. Super easy. Vetting material, if you know it is wrong, say something. problem solved and the person who posted the bad information will not feel emboldened to stick their foot in their mouth again.
 
I'm really enjoying this thread.
It's serious, It's comical and it's sad from one end to the other.
Like a book, only poorly written in some areas.

The thing I don't appreciate is a total lack of input from 1J04.
Get off yer lazy azz and post up some good memes please

Look Goddammit. This is no time for some immature, jacking around, self serving, childish,double anal bukkake spitting party. We got some serious shit going down here. It's a Butt Burning Colon Catastrophe destined for rhoids.
It's times such as these when I think we just need to strap on our hiking boots, grab a cold Beer and a Pig, and just go for a walk and let it all go.

memememememememememem ;)




K5jimqD.jpg




 
And yet, he wants Lowlight to take the leap and try it with his livelihood. While admitting he would never put his money on the line to pay for a website to try it himself.

And THEN someone holds a gun to your head and forces you to open the thread again and again! Crazy town!

But you're right. How dare a bunch of people come in to the Tea Room/Bear Pit and start throwing opinions around. Who ever heard of such a thing! The lunacy! (Reminds me of Dr. Strangelove: "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!")



Oh, and don't act like you've never got drunk and fucked a monkey. We've heard the stories. You thought that one wouldn't get out?

My poorly stated point is that this bullshit has reached the point of an ARF thread. It's the fucking internet, the whole argument is about shit said on the internet. It's not even a disagreement about an idea, it's just about some "he said, he said" bullshit. And the "he said" that started this thread didn't even happen here.

As for me fucking monkeys, what happens on leave stays on leave. But as best as I can remember, there were WAY too many hot dark women in SE Asia for me to get that desperate. Although now that I think about it, there was that night in Bangkok......
 
We're not going to stop before page 10 are we?

Lean in to it BITCHES!

Why would we do that? It's only taken 9 pages to establish that there are dumb people on the internet and that not everyone agrees with each other. It's been fucking groundbreaking thus far. All we're missing is a "which scope to shoot 1000yds" question and we'll hit page 20 with new and exciting content.
 
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    Rob01
    Super Moderator
    • Join Date: Jul 2001
    • Posts: 8591

    #1DO NOT ATTACK NEW MEMBERS!

    08-15-2011, 11:11 AM
    This has been going on too much lately. Someone asks a question that some feel isn't worth it and the feeding frenzy commences. Well it stops now. This is the first and final warning. We see it and you will get a 3 day ban the first time. Happens again and you are gone for 3 months.

    You guys who spend more time in the Bear Pit or Maggie's Drawers posting stupid pictures than shooting or posting on shooting got it? It's done.


    If there are problems then that is what Mod alerts are for. Asking a question that someone feels is stupid isn't a problem. Asking a question that has been asked before isn't either. Anyone new or old member causing problems deliberately should be brought up to the mods. Too long has this place run like the wild west. The Mods are here for a reason. If there is a problem then alert us.

    Read the forum rules if you are unclear as to what is right and wrong to be posted around here. Lowlight is the man who wrote them and it's his word that will be followed and not what some members think.
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I have no idea what's going to show up here as I'm on an unfamiliar machine. Anyway I lurked for awhile before signing up and finally posted with some trepidation. Prior to this posting by Rob01, a know nothing question would engender a water-fall of posts that would drown a new guy and send him off to find a more welcoming
site. For a FNG there was a saving grace which was Google.search. It allowed a guy to do a very productive search without having to ask a rudimentary question but if you did not you would face the rath of the intolerant.

I believe LL clearly saw the growth of interest and decided to make SH more welcoming. Thus Rob's post and hopefully a few more scheckles (sp) for LL which he richly deserves. The end result can be seen in the proliferation of new bullets, firearms, glass, etc., etc. Anyone that thinks this board, with LL at the helm, wasn't an influence, is not someone to consult if making a marketing decision.

101, what in the hell are you thinking? Under your unrefined criteria, unrefined being a gift as opposed to a more succinct "bullshit", this site would have lost a host of new shooters as well as any number of people with extensive knowledge about somewhat arcane fields such as knives or shotguns.

Enough, this is more than I would normally say to people in two or three days.


 
as quarterhorse started, i wish i could quote only the couple sentences you typed...
franks site, from the beginning, absolutely, has had everything to do with the furthering of gear and education to the tactical rifle shot...
from the, really, start of the internet... when things on the internet really got going,, frank started the snipershide and from slings to scopes, to bottom metal and also bullets and rifles themselves...
anyone who has been around has seen the rise of optics through john at us optics, where customer service and optic choice was really started, nightforce, swfa with the supersniper, primer reticles...
rifles are the same way, between his builds, between custom gun makers with new technologies that were bounced around and developed or redeveloped, between manufactures who promoted there rifles here...if accuracy international doesnt have franks picture on the wall something is wrong, how many fuckin rifles were sold directly because of his site, only...fucking thousands...
lets not talk slings
lets not talk stocks, manners, sentinal...
lets not talk training courses through out the states...
bipods
guys who took off on their own with internet sites or training courses after the saw it done here first
come on, frank dont need his dick sucked, but he does deserve the smack on the back that he has earned, and a little less bullshit from the peanut gallery
 
SOME OF YOU MAKE ME WANNA PUNCH A BABY. NOT JUST ONE EITHER. IM TALKING ABOUT AN ENTIRE BUS FULL OF THEM.

That will give some of yall more to talk about to make it to page 10.
 
fuck yea, kittens suck, punch a bus load of em...
fuckers...

Kittens aren't so bad, 'til they grow up to become fucking cats!
Every time I think about killing cats, I remember a shot my dad made on this really pretty gray Persian.
Leaving Custer, SD, heading back towards Hill City we were kind of in the shadow of Crazy Horse (next to the fort) and he spotted the bastard skulking through the grass at about 200yds.
I slammed on the brakes and he poked his CZ 221 Fireball out the window.
POW!!
Gray fur blows out and drifts with the wind for about 50'.
Happened 13 years ago and I can still see it as if it just occurred.
I do miss hanging out with the old codger.
 
I have not read every post so if it's been said I'm sorry but here is my theory. Also frank. It may be a little karma. I like ya but you can be a dick so god is fucking with you. All joking aside. Honestly we are seeing the full effects of the American sniper era play out from the book to the movie is reaching its full arc.

our subculture was thrust in to main stream. Like after oh brother where art thou and blue grass and top gun and bomber jackets. a couple of more years and it will be back to normal. Chris Kyle was the john Wayne of this decade. That and the rise of obama and the aftermath of sandy hook. Gun culture became fashionable.

I know it sucks hearing some douche talk about his .308 lupus and how he shot 3700yds with it. But rest easy. In 5 years when this has died down and you don't have enough stupid people buying every gadget and class you and your sponsors have to offer. Your just gonna be stuck with us cranky old tight ass bastards. You will be praying for these know it all high speed low drag gear queers. So Suck it up you fucking whiner.

It's the internet im sorry someone hurt your feelings. But did you think something al gore invented would be sane.
 
In my limited experience so far, about 70% of the users here will go out of their way to help a newbie even when they ask a redundant question; the other 60% are assholes.
But then again, 50% of statistics are made up, and the other 80% are inaccurate.

65% of everything you are saying right there is 90% bull shit.
 
Well shit dude. You are the one who whipped out the Christopher Walken on fucking page 9!
Where are we supposed to go from that??????


i have my pages set for as many comments as possible so it only shows page 6 on my screen.

FYI, there is an entire webpage dedicated to walken and norris fighting. WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST DISCOVER?

https://walkenvnorris.wordpress.com/
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nWmbFXJDHrM?ecver=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



And then there's "Killer," with a fiddle solo ...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vQb4nBmAZTo?ecver=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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That's weird. Mine is showing page 9 on both my machines. Do you have a bunch of assholes blocked?

SHIT! Chuck Norris. Why didn't I think if that. Chuck is the only person in the universe that outranks Christopher Walken!

surprisingly i dont have anybody blocked. at least not yet.

go to my profile in the top left, then select account, scoll half way down to "Conversation Detail Options" just above date and time, then Posts per Page i have 40 per page sicne i got tired of hitting next page after a couple of posts.
 
Internet and social media...the ultimate pinnacle of knowledge not being earned (and hence treated cheaply), and people thus becoming educated beyond what their intelligence or maturity allows...

I fall off the grid for a week and I miss one of the most epic threads since we migrated back to the old Hide...smdh...
 
Frank,

Please, open the bar, and hire me as a bartender. If you do that, you will never hear any complaints, bitching, requests for basic shooting education or even "Thank you, Frank". It's going to be marvelous, that I can promise you. We'll make tons of money together, and nobody will remember anything at all or have any unsolicited ideas which you may not like to hear. I'll take care of it. I bet that if I'm around, you'll relax quickly, forget troubled waters and then also hire that one (on the left) as an assistant to help me run the bar, please....

 
Last edited:
Everybody is an expert these days. I've adopted Frank's challenge, "Come shoot a match with me, loser pays for the other guys match fee."

Shuts a lot of people up.