I just called and left him a message yesterday. He hasn't called me back yet so he may be off for the holiday season already but its worth a try.
- Thread starter Temper
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Here's a little velocity info for some of the guys looking at running this cartridge.
Kreiger 1-9
SAW II Chamber
162 ELD M @ 2.945 COAL
CCI450
Lapua Palma
VARGET
I've been able to run this load up to 44.5gr @ 2992fps and still haven't found a pressure sign. Erring on the side of caution, I backed the charge down to what appears to be the low node @43.8gr and 2920fps. The cartridge is, so far, exactly what Clayton and the boys at WTO have been talking about. My load development has mirrored their info page almost exactly.
For you guys looking at different powders, Varget has been super accurate for me, but so has Shooters World Precision. I just had to bump the charge weight by a few kernels and it's performing in the same ballpark as the Varget, with better ES's.
Super happy with the cartridge so far, and the performance in the mountains has got me considering switching my new sheep rig from a long action 7, to a short 7... Hmmm
Kreiger 1-9
SAW II Chamber
162 ELD M @ 2.945 COAL
CCI450
Lapua Palma
VARGET
I've been able to run this load up to 44.5gr @ 2992fps and still haven't found a pressure sign. Erring on the side of caution, I backed the charge down to what appears to be the low node @43.8gr and 2920fps. The cartridge is, so far, exactly what Clayton and the boys at WTO have been talking about. My load development has mirrored their info page almost exactly.
For you guys looking at different powders, Varget has been super accurate for me, but so has Shooters World Precision. I just had to bump the charge weight by a few kernels and it's performing in the same ballpark as the Varget, with better ES's.
Super happy with the cartridge so far, and the performance in the mountains has got me considering switching my new sheep rig from a long action 7, to a short 7... Hmmm
What barrel length? I think I may have gotten a slow Proof Carbon barrel. I'm struggling with getting the speeds I want out of a 24" barrel. Tried Varget and H4350.Here's a little velocity info for some of the guys looking at running this cartridge.
Kreiger 1-9
SAW II Chamber
162 ELD M @ 2.945 COAL
CCI450
Lapua Palma
VARGET
I've been able to run this load up to 44.5gr @ 2992fps and still haven't found a pressure sign. Erring on the side of caution, I backed the charge down to what appears to be the low node @43.8gr and 2920fps. The cartridge is, so far, exactly what Clayton and the boys at WTO have been talking about. My load development has mirrored their info page almost exactly.
For you guys looking at different powders, Varget has been super accurate for me, but so has Shooters World Precision. I just had to bump the charge weight by a few kernels and it's performing in the same ballpark as the Varget, with better ES's.
Super happy with the cartridge so far, and the performance in the mountains has got me considering switching my new sheep rig from a long action 7, to a short 7... Hmmm
Probably would've been good for me to put that.... 26".
Mine hated 4350. Wouldn't group well, velocities were weakish... You could just tell from the start it wasn't gonna perform.
Varget on the other hand, went straight to shooting in the .2's and immediately to 2900fps on a soft break in load (42.5gr @ 2.945 COAL). SW Precision did the same thing, but I needed a little more powder to get it to the 2920 node Varget showed.
If you're having problems with getting velocity, you could be right that you got a slow barrel, or you could try shooting RL16 or N135 through it and see what happens. I'm not a huge fan of alliant powders, but the 16 has my attention... Especially when I go to try this cartridge with the 180 ELD M...
Yeah I've been thinking about trying the RL16. Was waiting to hear back from Clayton about making a case holder for the Giraud trimmer and I was going to ask him about this issue as well.
How far from the lands is that load?
I hear ya. You wouldn't be the first guy I've hear claim their Proof is slow though... There's a pretty big record of guys that had to push a Proof harder to get the velocity they've wanted...
@2.945 COAL, that puts a 162 at roughly 10 thou off the lands for my chamber.
@2.945 COAL, that puts a 162 at roughly 10 thou off the lands for my chamber.
Yeah I thought I had heard that before. That's a bummer. I know they run their bore/groove diameters a little on the loose side or so I've heard. That's pretty lame. If that's the case I'll be pretty disappointed! No fault of the cartridge or WTO just the way things go sometimes I suppose
My proofs are somewhat slower, ~2840 and 2820 are the nodes in my proof steel and carbon barrels, respectively. Same charge weight too, 46.0gr of RL16
Yeah well I got 2674 fps out of 45.8gr of H4350 and 162 ELD-M's COAL 2.945. No pressure signs but pretty compressed load. I'm sure I can go a little higher with the H4350 but its probably not going to get me 75fps more which is where I would at least expect it to be. Barrel has 125 rounds on it now. Hasn't sped up so maybe it will and that'll fix the problem. Saw pressure signs at 2724 with Varget. 24" Proof barrel.
How compressed is the 46gr of RL16?
Not at all mate. I'd have to go and remeasure my OAL but from memory it's 2.915" or so. I've taken it all the way up to 46.4gr with the 162 ELD-M and saw 2865fps with no issues. That was on a warmer day too (30 degrees Celsius or so). This current load is using the 160TMK
Simia Dei, have you done any further loading of the Berger 175 Elite Hunters? and if so what components / results have you found?.
I'm testing three powders currently, RL 16/ H-4350 & StaBall 6.5. So far H 4350 seems the most consistent at 46.4 grains for 2744 fps.
StaBall reached 2724 with 46.9 grains and RL 16 achieved 2727 with 45.7 grains. This is just the first series of tests on a barrel with 40 rounds so far and pressure signs have been minimal or nonexistent so far. I plan on upping the high end loads until pressure signs appear. With the scarcity of H 4350 what other powders would you suggest ? Vahvourtori ( certainly misspelled) may be next for me!
I'm testing three powders currently, RL 16/ H-4350 & StaBall 6.5. So far H 4350 seems the most consistent at 46.4 grains for 2744 fps.
StaBall reached 2724 with 46.9 grains and RL 16 achieved 2727 with 45.7 grains. This is just the first series of tests on a barrel with 40 rounds so far and pressure signs have been minimal or nonexistent so far. I plan on upping the high end loads until pressure signs appear. With the scarcity of H 4350 what other powders would you suggest ? Vahvourtori ( certainly misspelled) may be next for me!
26" Bartlein marksman left twist gain twist 1n9 to1n8.25. I'm fine with the current speed but wonder if I can get a little more as long as the Alpha Brass will handle it, I plan on many re-loads . I have the SAW II chamber on this Rifle!
I guess I'm really looking for the ideal powder for this case& bullet combo!, I'm using FED Match primers.
I guess I'm really looking for the ideal powder for this case& bullet combo!, I'm using FED Match primers.
I’d be surprised if you couldn’t find more speed with R16 than H4350.
I’d also look at IMR4451,,,it seems just a smidge slower burn than H4350 and is an excellent alternative.
Hi mate, I haven't touched them since the initial testing and won't again. The speed you've hit seems decent for that projectile. I hit very fast speeds but that was with 2000 MR, which wasn't temp stable.
Steel head, thanks for the advice. I think I have some 4451 , I'll check the loading tables and give it a try along with round two testing of the aforementioned powders .
Just thought I'd update this since I figured out the issue. It wasn't a slow barrel. It was the lot of powder. Tried two other lots of H4350 and immediately gained 100fps with one lot and 75fps with another. Same everything just different lot of H4350. Got 2770fps with 162's
Would a SAW still have about a 100 fps increase over a 7mm08 SAAMI with a 18” or 19“ barrel (thinking suppressed hunting rifle)?
I'm not sure about that. I have 2 7mm-08 hunting rifles but I've never tried to wring out the max velocity of those rifles. I do however know that pretty much whatever powder charge I throw in the 7 SAW case produces some of the lowest ES/SD's I've loaded to date. The case design and Alpha Munitions brass are far superior to the 7mm-08 case design in my opinion.
Has anyone tried 7828SSC just curious if this might work
I posted new results on the other 7SAW thread 175g Berger specific that I started inadvertently if anyone is interested!
What’s the other SAW thread?
Thanks
Anyone running this in a long action? And anyone tried 4831sc or is it not a great powder for this cartridge?
I'm using a FN PBR action with the mag well binder plate removed allowing 3.0" COAL with the SAW II chamber, not quite a long action.
What LA are you using and for what purpose?
I've got some H 4831 SC but have not tried it as of yet because RL 16 is working well with Berger 175g Elites and I beleive the Hodgdon RL table lists it at lower velocity for my bullet wt.
My rifle is not for competition.
What are your intentions?
What LA are you using and for what purpose?
I've got some H 4831 SC but have not tried it as of yet because RL 16 is working well with Berger 175g Elites and I beleive the Hodgdon RL table lists it at lower velocity for my bullet wt.
My rifle is not for competition.
What are your intentions?
Id be slapping it together for a hunting rifle with the intention of using it for a match cartridge for hunting type matches i.e. find and range targets type match that my 6xc wouldnt be good for. Lighter weight hunting rig with a purpose I guess lol
And a rem700 action
With the Rem action you have unlimited choices, you should talk to Clayton at West Texas Ordnance about what chamber to use for your purposes and what bullet weights you plan on using.
Has anyone done a test between factory Alpha 7 SAW brass and reformed Lapua .308 Palma brass to see which one holds pressure better?
Has anybody run the Hornady 150 ELDX in a gasser? Hell even in a bolt gun, haven't seen much on them.
Any experiences with the 160 TMK?
Clayton used/uses them
I use them. Am happy with them
which reamer did you use and what OAL and velocities are you running? I’m considering building on a Tikka action.
Anyone have a consistency comparison between the 162 ELDs and 160 TMKs?
I used to own a short bore reamer, thats what my rifles were chambered with. I then had the freebore extended to 0.100" and the 160TMKs sit at approx 2.920" at the moment (I'd need to check to confirm, it's been a while). One rifle is running at an average of 2828fps and the other at around 2842 or so, again, I'd need to check my data. I'm using 46.0gr of RL16. I run the same load and OAL in both rifles.
I have a long freebore reamer in the shed which I'll use for the next barrels. I run AW mags as well.
I've used both. 162s ran slightly faster but I had to load them in separate lots after measuring them all. I've had some tips fall out of them as well. No issues with the 160s, far more consistent within and between batches. Just my experience.
Good to know, thanks
Awesome info, 26” barrels?
Mine are both 26"
Hey guys, anyone tried 150gr LR Accubonds yet? Interested what speeds you managed with the 150s.
Cheers
Cheers
I need someone's wisdom that has some considerable time on their reloading table in the 7 SAW II. I have 350 rounds fired on my 7 SAW II chambered 22" Proof Cartoon barrel and I can't make velocity, OR find pressure (see chart). Whether its a 162gr Amax, or even crunching a 175gr Elite Hunter over 48.7grs of H4350, it won't get it done. No ejector swipes, no sticky bolt, no primer indicators, nothing.
See attached "my load vs. WTOs published loads" comparison. No where close. Im consistantly 180 - 250 fps slower with equivalent charges, or I'm comparable fps with consistently 2grs + over WTOs.
See attached "my load vs. WTOs published loads" comparison. No where close. Im consistantly 180 - 250 fps slower with equivalent charges, or I'm comparable fps with consistently 2grs + over WTOs.
4" of barrel is 100fps and proof barrels are often slow. not surprised
try varget
try varget
Great, that explains everything, thanks...except when WTO tested a brand new, 23" Bartlein with 171gr pills , they were able to make the same velocity as me with 175gr pills with 3 gr less of the same powder in a "broke-in" barrel. Barrel length? He's already put that to bed; his tests of the 26" Paradigm CF barrel and the 23" Bartlein CF barrel resulted in a less than 2% velocity differential with the same powder charge with the same 171gr pills.
Anyone else?
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some barrels are fast and some slow. also unless they're exact same bullet speed wont always match with same charges due to shape, bearing length, and just specifics on individual barrels
And we're not talking about a 100fps difference, the metric is between 180 - 250 fps difference.
Probably the difference between your 22" barrel and his 26" barrel. My Proof barrel in 7mm Saw is a tad slow at 24" as well. Might have a slow lot of powder as well.
Alright, thanks.
But my data with the 162gr ELD M has me pushing the same bullet, with the same powder, with the same primer, using the same brass at the same velocity as WTOs load development, but with 3.7 grains more power.
But my data with the 162gr ELD M has me pushing the same bullet, with the same powder, with the same primer, using the same brass at the same velocity as WTOs load development, but with 3.7 grains more power.
I know, hard to tell. The majority of data used a fresh 8lb of powder, and I've used a different lot number for that reason, same results. Weird.
