Range Report .223 trainer-experienced input needed!!!

[260284]

Hi guys...first post.. sorry to bump an old thread... Anyone have any data for the 73g ELD, loaded to AR15 mag length? Just recently built a budget 223 Trainer using a Ruger American Predator barreled action, with an Indian Creek Design MOFO chassis fitted for standard AR15 mags. I have two excellent loads with Varget at the moment:

- 75g BTHP, Hornady brass, cci450, 23.9g Varget, cbto: 1.850 (.005 off)= 2680fps

-73g ELD, Hornady brass, cci450, 24.1g Varget, cbto: 1.860 (.020 off)= 2750fps

I can load the 75 BT in mostly all AR15 mags without any issue at all. The 73s are loaded just about to max as far as the mags I use. Was thinking to try H4895, Varget is starting to become scarce in my area. If anyone has any recommendations it would be greatly appreciated.

I have a ladder loaded with CFE223 for my AR with the 73gr ELDM, just haven't had time to shoot it. Using CFE so I can load it on my 550, otherwise I would use H4895. Really like H4895 with the 75 ELDM in AICS mag in my Tikka Varmint, don't see why it wouldn't work with the 73 gr. I get 3035 fps in the Tikka.

Hodgdon shows start at 22.5 and max at 24.5 for a 75gr bullet. I would start at 23 or so. I got better speed with H4895 than with Varget.

 

[padom]

23.2-23.8 8208 XBR. Pretty known node for AR's. My load is 23.6g 8208. What AR mags are you using??? You can get ASC SS AR15 mags and get a longer COAL than Pmags

 

[bunsen27]

Hi guys...first post.. sorry to bump an old thread... Anyone have any data for the 73g ELD, loaded to AR15 mag length? Just recently built a budget 223 Trainer using a Ruger American Predator barreled action, with an Indian Creek Design MOFO chassis fitted for standard AR15 mags. I have two excellent loads with Varget at the moment:

- 75g BTHP, Hornady brass, cci450, 23.9g Varget, cbto: 1.850 (.005 off)= 2680fps

-73g ELD, Hornady brass, cci450, 24.1g Varget, cbto: 1.860 (.020 off)= 2750fps

I can load the 75 BT in mostly all AR15 mags without any issue at all. The 73s are loaded just about to max as far as the mags I use. Was thinking to try H4895, Varget is starting to become scarce in my area. If anyone has any recommendations it would be greatly appreciated.

I run TAC for my 73gr & 75gr ELDM's. Good speed and great accuracy! It's a ball powder so metering is pretty easy.

Definitely pick up the ASC mags PaDom mentioned. They will give you 2.316in OAL to work with.

ASC AR-15 .223 / 5.56 20-Round Stainless Steel Magazine

The ASC® AR-15® .223/5.56 20-Round Stainless Steel Magazine is a performance-enhanced centerfire rifle magazine, favored by sport and tactical shooters across North America. This lightweight magazine features durable 410 stainless steel constru

gunmagwarehouse.com

 

[Xander]

Thank you for the replies! I will look into TAC and also 8208. Yes, I run the ASC mags. Mainly use them for the 73g loadings. I will say, its fun (and kinda funny) to stuff 30 rounds of the 75BTs in a standard Pmag and go to town when plinking with a bolt gun, lol. I actually have to extend my bipod legs a few clicks and use one of my bigger rear bags, just to get the mag in.

If I try out any new loadings Ill report back with stats. Thanks again!!

 

[DarinC]

I run TAC for my 73gr & 75gr ELDM's. Good speed and great accuracy! It's a ball powder so metering is pretty easy.

Definitely pick up the ASC mags PaDom mentioned. They will give you 2.316in OAL to work with.

ASC AR-15 .223 / 5.56 20-Round Stainless Steel Magazine

The ASC® AR-15® .223/5.56 20-Round Stainless Steel Magazine is a performance-enhanced centerfire rifle magazine, favored by sport and tactical shooters across North America. This lightweight magazine features durable 410 stainless steel constru

gunmagwarehouse.com

goddamn. Thank you guys for those.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My "Trainer" is actually my MR600 F T/R match rifle, Savage (11VT) based, 24"long, 1:9"twist. It uses a Choate Savage Tactical stock (I added 3 3/4" Stock extensions, I'm 6' 5 1/2" tall). There's a clone bipod mounted, a 20MOA EGW Extended base, and a Bushnell 4.5-18x40 AR Drop Zone 308 BDC scope. So far, I've never found a need for a chassis. This rifle is duplicated in all details except for 308 chambering and 308 BDC.

It's an entry level F T/R Rifle that had been shot in National MR 600yd Competition. Before I retired from Comp, it was my 300yd Club Match rifle several times a month. With those semi-monthly matches, my trainer rifle work was kept to a minimum.

Load is Starline brass, CCI BR-4 Primer, Hornady 75gr HPBT-Match, over 23.5gr-23.7gr of Varget. This load is also used in my Stag Model 6 Super Varminter 24", 1:8".

The 308 uses 175SMK, 42.2gr IMR-4064 with CCI BR-2, and Starline brass. My PA-10 uses the HDY 168gr HPBT-Match, and 43.5gr of MR-464 with the 308 BDC scope.

It's an entry level F T/R Rifle that had been shot in National MR 600yd Competition. Before I retired from Comp, it was my 300yd Club Match rifle several times a month.

I have no complaints.

Greg

 

[Sam19kilo]

Here is my current load for my trainer that has been serving me awesome:
LC Brass w/ BR-4primers
24.1gr H4895
80gr ELD 1.970” ogive, jumpin .005”
2930-2950fps, SDs stay in the single digits
Shooting out of a Criterion remage 1/7” twist, 26” barrel
Here is my 5 shot group at 400yds

 

[Dschapp44]

I’m running a 24 inch 7 twist Bartlien. Ended up using a 80 ELDM with 25 grains of H4895 for 3030 fps. BC in my kestrel got me 1st round impacts out to 1000 yards. Plus side is the dope matches my 105 6 Dasher load within a tenth out to 1000

The 80.5 Berger load is interchangeable, but because the hornady are so long I had to dremel out the front of the accurate mag.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Here is my current load for my trainer that has been serving me awesome:
LC Brass w/ BR-4primers
24.1gr H4895
80gr ELD 1.970” ogive, jumpin .005”
2930-2950fps, SDs stay in the single digits
Shooting out of a Criterion remage 1/7” twist, 26” barrel
Here is my 5 shot group at 400yds

What chamber?

 

[Dschapp44]

It’s a long freebore 223 chamber not sure exactly. Andy at the firm spun it up

 

[Sam19kilo]

I’m running a 24 inch 7 twist Bartlien. Ended up using a 80 ELDM with 25 grains of H4895 for 3030 fps. BC in my kestrel got me 1st round impacts out to 1000 yards. Plus side is the dope matches my 105 6 Dasher load within a tenth out to 1000

The 80.5 Berger load is interchangeable, but because the hornady are so long I had to dremel out the front of the accurate mag.

Dude that is solid!!!! I just re visited my 88ELDs and got them to 2905fps and they are awesome. SD of 8 with lake city brass

 

[PAYDIRT]

Dude that is solid!!!! I just re visited my 88ELDs and got them to 2905fps and they are awesome. SD of 8 with lake city brass

What chamber is that Criterion?

 

[Dschapp44]

Dude that is solid!!!! I just re visited my 88ELDs and got them to 2905fps and they are awesome. SD of 8 with lake city brass

I’ve been meaning to try them. What powder and how much?

 

[stello1001]

So I know it's been a while since the first posts were made (those on the first page) but it seems a big majority were stating they use the 75 bthp. I'm sure now everyone is probably using some thing heavier or ballistically better. Is there any reason why that bullet could be better than a 73 ELDM being that they have almost identical BC values? I would assume the 73 being lighter, can be pushed faster.

 

[Sam19kilo]

I’ve been meaning to try them. What powder and how much?

H4895, 24.2gr, BR4 primers, LCbrass, seated 2.540”. I am not seeing crazy pressure signs. It’s LC brass anyways so who cares lol

 

[Sam19kilo]

What chamber is that Criterion?

The rem match with a freebore to seat bullets out far

 

[PAYDIRT]

The rem match with a freebore to seat bullets out far

Saw you were shooting 88's too, figured it was the match chamber. Thanks.

 

[bunsen27]

So I know it's been a while since the first posts were made (those on the first page) but it seems a big majority were stating they use the 75 bthp. I'm sure now everyone is probably using some thing heavier or ballistically better. Is there any reason why that bullet could be better than a 73 ELDM being that they have almost identical BC values? I would assume the 73 being lighter, can be pushed faster.

I use both 73gr & 75gr. My load is the same charge weight and velocity is nearly identical. If you run the numbers between them they are indeed very close out to a certain distance (~550yds), then the 75gr will pull ahead with less wind drift and less drop. At 1k it's 50in less drop and 28in less drift in a 10ph cross wind.

The 73gr was originally designed to be loaded to AR-15 magazine length so the ogive is different than the 75gr. On a side note I've found the 73gr to be EXTREMELY effective on woodchcks and PDogs with nearly all being DRT (dead right there) from fragmenting whereas the 75' tend to blow through.

 

[stello1001]

I use both 73gr & 75gr. My load is the same charge weight and velocity is nearly identical. If you run the numbers between them they are indeed very close out to a certain distance (~550yds), then the 75gr will pull ahead with less wind drift and less drop. At 1k it's 50in less drop and 28in less drift in a 10ph cross wind.

The 73gr was originally designed to be loaded to AR-15 magazine length so the ogive is different than the 75gr. On a side note I've found the 73gr to be EXTREMELY effective on woodchcks and PDogs with nearly all being DRT (dead right there) from fragmenting whereas the 75' tend to blow through.

The reason for me asking is because I have a 26" 9 twist barrel. Both seem to shoot well @ my elevation, 220 ish above sea level. I figured the 9 twist would favor the 73 better since it's lighter. I did my testing in 80 degree weather so I'm concerned a bit about buying a boat load of the heavier only to realize that when temps drop, they will shoot like shit.

I don't reload though. So I've tried those in factory Hornady ammo. The BTHP were loaded in the hornady black line of ammo. I suppose I could buy the Hornady match for better consistency out @ distance. I know the Black ammo is considered lower grade budget ammo.
For what it's worth though, 77 SMK loaded in Fiocchi ammo were also shooting good out of my 9 twist. Again though, this was in really hot weather. I suspect when the air temp drops and becomes more dense, my accuracy with those could turn sour.

 

[PAYDIRT]

The reason for me asking is because I have a 26" 9 twist barrel. Both seem to shoot well @ my elevation, 220 ish above sea level. I figured the 9 twist would favor the 73 better since it's lighter. I did my testing in 80 degree weather so I'm concerned a bit about buying a boat load of the heavier only to realize that when temps drop, they will shoot like shit.

I don't reload though. So I've tried those in factory Hornady ammo. The BTHP were loaded in the hornady black line of ammo. I suppose I could buy the Hornady match for better consistency out @ distance. I know the Black ammo is considered lower grade budget ammo.
For what it's worth though, 77 SMK loaded in Fiocchi ammo were also shooting good out of my 9 twist. Again though, this was in really hot weather. I suspect when the air temp drops and becomes more dense, my accuracy with those could turn sour.

I got by with a 20" 1/9 with both. Cold weather too.

 

[bunsen27]

The reason for me asking is because I have a 26" 9 twist barrel. Both seem to shoot well @ my elevation, 220 ish above sea level. I figured the 9 twist would favor the 73 better since it's lighter. I did my testing in 80 degree weather so I'm concerned a bit about buying a boat load of the heavier only to realize that when temps drop, they will shoot like shit.

I don't reload though. So I've tried those in factory Hornady ammo. The BTHP were loaded in the hornady black line of ammo. I suppose I could buy the Hornady match for better consistency out @ distance. I know the Black ammo is considered lower grade budget ammo.
For what it's worth though, 77 SMK loaded in Fiocchi ammo were also shooting good out of my 9 twist. Again though, this was in really hot weather. I suspect when the air temp drops and becomes more dense, my accuracy with those could turn sour.

With a 26" barrel you should be able to push it fast enough (3k). Also have you verified your barrel actually is 1 in 9"? I have a 26" Savage barrel marked 1 in 9" that actually measured 1 in 8.25" and shoots the 73's lights out. It will shoot the 77's in Black Hills ammo as well. I'm in NC so also a lower elevation. Berger's stability calculator gives the 75gr ELDM "marginal stability". YMMV

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.

bergerbullets.com

 

[stello1001]

With a 26" barrel you should be able to push it fast enough (3k). Also have you verified your barrel actually is 1 in 9"? I have a 26" Savage barrel marked 1 in 9" that actually measured 1 in 8.25" and shoots the 73's lights out. It will shoot the 77's in Black Hills ammo as well. I'm in NC so also a lower elevation. Berger's stability calculator gives the 75gr ELDM "marginal stability". YMMV

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.

bergerbullets.com

I have not verified but thanks for reminding. If I have time tomorrow, I'll take the rifle out and do so. It's a win70 that I've been able to date back to '92 to maybe '93 based on its SN. These only came in either 12 twist or 9 twist. It couldn't hurt to verify though so that's on my to do list now.

Yes, the 26" length definitely helps speed the bullet up, thus spinning it faster. However, I'm stuck to factory ammo only as I do not have anywhere to setup for reloading, at least not at this point in life. If I remember correctly, factory ammo was coming out of the muzzle right around 2820 ish. This was with the 75s.

 

[Sam19kilo]

These last comments bring up a huge question, which bullet to run?
88ELDs going 2900fps
80ELDs going 2935fps (Berger VLD 80s go the same speed)
75ELDs going 3000fps

 

[Dschapp44]

These last comments bring up a huge question, which bullet to run?
88ELDs going 2900fps
80ELDs going 2935fps (Berger VLD 80s go the same speed)
75ELDs going 3000fps

If you shoot PRS then the 75 since that meets the tactical class rules. Otherwise it’s a wash since all the bullets should preform equal and they are all about the same price

 

[PracticalTactical]

I wouldn't say the other bullets perform equal. There is a significant difference in BC between them. I think the 88 ELD is around .545 G1 BC.

Don't forget the new 90 grain A Tip. Expensive as they may be, they claim a .585 G1 BC.

I think you could get away with a 1:7 for the 90 A Tip, but probably 1:6.5 for the 223 would nail it.

 

[Sam19kilo]

@PracticalTactical @Dschapp44 thats the only other thing would be the higher BC right?
I have some 90SMK but the BC isn’t great. Right now the 80s going 2930 have been sooooo fun to shoot but looking back at a couple past comments, people can get 3000fps with an 80 and the data on that is pretty awesome, 7.2mils for 1000yds. I guess it just comes down to personal preference. I really enjoy testing bullets and doing load data so that’s why I try a bunch of bullets. I might give some ATIPs a try. Would be hilarious this fancy ATIP bullet in some lake city brass ??

 

[stello1001]

@PracticalTactical @Dschapp44Right now the 80s going 2930 have been sooooo fun to shoot but looking back at a couple past comments, people can get 3000fps with an 80 and the data on that is pretty awesome, 7.2mils for 1000yds.

That's fucking flatter than my 6.5CM. But to be fair, I'm only pushing a 140ELDM @2724FPS!

 

[padom]

@PracticalTactical
I have some 90SMK but the BC isn’t great.
[/QUOTE]

You must have some of the old non-pointed 90smk with the G1 BC 0.504?? The new pointed 90smk are fucking awesome and have a G1 BC of 0.563. They are my go to bullet in 220TB running them with a mild load @ 3040. 0.5moa was easy when I tested them at 900yds a few weeks ago. Elevation was dead center of target with 6.7mil out of a 26" 1:7 Bartlein.

 

[Sam19kilo]

You must have some of the old non-pointed 90smk with the G1 BC 0.504?? The new pointed 90smk are fucking awesome and have a G1 BC of 0.563. They are my go to bullet in 220TB running them with a mild load @ 3040. 0.5moa was easy when I tested them at 900yds a few weeks ago. Elevation was dead center of target with 6.7mil out of a 26" 1:7 Bartlein.

Once I get home I’ll see what box I have. I haven’t done the Satterlee test with them yet, might just steal my 88ELDs load and try that with 10rds

 

[Sam19kilo]

You must have some of the old non-pointed 90smk with the G1 BC 0.504?? The new pointed 90smk are fucking awesome and have a G1 BC of 0.563. They are my go to bullet in 220TB running them with a mild load @ 3040. 0.5moa was easy when I tested them at 900yds a few weeks ago. Elevation was dead center of target with 6.7mil out of a 26" 1:7 Bartlein.

I’m not sure, it doesn’t even say on the box lol

 

[PAYDIRT]

You guys are way ahead of me, so I'll ask what's possible with a 28" Wylde chamber running 80 eldm's? I'm hoping to get 3000ish. I'm 1100 altitude, 1-8 or 1-7?

 

[Sam19kilo]

You guys are way ahead of me, so I'll ask what's possible with a 28" Wylde chamber running 80 eldm's? I'm hoping to get 3000ish. I'm 1100 altitude, 1-8 or 1-7?

1/7 twist I prefer but some guys have same luck with a 1/8. I’m not sure how long you will be able to seat the bullets, measure your lands and I’m sure one of us will help guide you. with that chamber therefore don’t know if you can get the velocities that high but if you find a node getting the 80s going 2800-2850 I promise you will be happy. I’m assuming that’s what you can reach if you Don’t have any extra freebore.

 

[padom]

I’m not sure, it doesn’t even say on the box lol

Post a picture of the bullet. Its very noticeable if you have new or old version. I dont think I have any old 90smk's to post a side by side.

 

[FishDr]

I used @padom advise on the 75 ELDm and my “trainer” rifle is my favorite “competition rifle” out to 800 or so. I don’t feel handicapped. I do have a fast barrel tho -

 

[PracticalTactical]

I started running 1:8 with 80 SMKs at 3,000 FPS for F Class 20 + something years ago and they were great for a long time. Easy to tune and accurate.

These days they are still great, but I'm drawn to the newer heavier high BC stuff. (and longer throats)

I think of BC like this...

Fire two bullets the same speed, bullet A has a .450 G1 BC and bullet B has a .550 G1 BC...

The 450 yard wind drift of bullet A in MOA or Mils will equal the 550 yard wind drift of bullet B. (Not inches of wind drift, angular wind drift)

The 450 yard velocity of bullet A will equal the 550 yard velocity of bullet B.

That 90 SMK is interesting. I don't know how I missed that higher BC, but I will get some and try them out compared to the 88 ELD Match.

 

[padom]

I’m not sure, it doesn’t even say on the box lol

Here is the new pointed 90 SMK. You can see the obvious pointing on the new ones... the old ones did not have that at all.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Th

1/7 twist I prefer but some guys have same luck with a 1/8. I’m not sure how long you will be able to seat the bullets, measure your lands and I’m sure one of us will help guide you. with that chamber therefore don’t know if you can get the velocities that high but if you find a node getting the 80s going 2800-2850 I promise you will be happy. I’m assuming that’s what you can reach if you Don’t have any extra freebore.

The barrel isn't ordered yet, I'm still, shooting a 1-9 20", 75 bthp @ 2800ish.

 

[Sam19kilo]

Here is the new pointed 90 SMK. You can see the obvious pointing on the new ones... the old ones did not have that at all.

It’s the new ones. Now I’m gunna give them a go!

 

[Sam19kilo]

I’m running a 24 inch 7 twist Bartlien. Ended up using a 80 ELDM with 25 grains of H4895 for 3030 fps. BC in my kestrel got me 1st round impacts out to 1000 yards. Plus side is the dope matches my 105 6 Dasher load within a tenth out to 1000

The 80.5 Berger load is interchangeable, but because the hornady are so long I had to dremel out the front of the accurate mag.

So this data sheet had me so intrigued I decided to work up mine more and got the 80ELDs to 3030fps without pressure signs 25gr H4895, and half a minute @100yds,SD of 12. Are load data was almost exact lol DISCLAIMER ***** I worked up the load by .1gr increments, don’t copy****

 

[Dschapp44]

So this data sheet had me so intrigued I decided to work up mine more and got the 80ELDs to 3030fps without pressure signs 25gr H4895, and half a minute @100yds,SD of 12. Are load data was almost exact lol DISCLAIMER ***** I worked up the load by .1gr increments, don’t copy****

That’s pretty wild that it ended up being identical. My load is rain safe so I just called it good and didn’t do a higher ladder.

I’ve been trying to find a better Bullet option for a .223 but at this speed its just 7.7 MILs to 1000. That is quite impressive from a regular 223

 

[Sam19kilo]

That’s pretty wild. I’ve been trying to find a better option for a .223 but at this speed it 7.7 MILs to 1000. That is quite impressive from a regular 223

I haven’t water tested it yet but I had no idea the capabilities of the .223 with bigger bullets. It’s amazing

 

[PracticalTactical]

If you run fire formed cases with neck resize only and weight sort the brass, and weigh powder with a good 3 decimal place scale, you can really keep your SDs under control.

The 223 is such a small case, that any small variation represents a large percentage of change, so really make an effort to keep things as identical as possible and you'll really get the best of it.

I buy once fired brass about 3,000 at a time and do a full process on all of it, including anneal in salt bath. I size them twice, once with a standard die, then again with a small base die. Then I weigh every single case, and with a sharpie I write the weight on each case. After that I sort them into lots of 100 of the closest weight and those cases stay in that lot forever.

Basically it takes some time, but in the end I have poor mans match quality brass that is more consistent than more expensive new brass..

After it gets fire formed, I either neck resize only, or just do a minimum shoulder bump, depending on how many times it's been fired.

I have a trick that I use to keep the necks parallel. (Yes necks get a taper when you size them) When I size the necks I start with a bushing that is a few thousandths larger than my final bushing. Then I test if the bullet will hold or not. Cases that will hold go in one pile and cases that are still sloppy go in another pile. Then I do it all again with the next bushing smaller, and repeat until all are sized to hold a bullet.

Outside of neck turning, it's the best way I've found to keep neck tension as close as possible.

Or, you could neck turn and really milk it. I know most guys wont bother though, but I've done that as well.

They say matches are won and lost on the reloading bench. So if that's got any truth to it, doing things like this are what it takes.

 

[4O6shootist]

Guys with 223 teainers, is there any benefit to running a crf action like the origin vs a push feed? My main rig is an origin as well, but also run several others on my hunting and tactical rigs.

 

[padom]

I mean I don't know about with a 223rem...but I can't tell you how many cartridges I've had friends with same caliber bitch and complain about feeding and ejection issues in a rem700...6br...220TB, 6GT....

All I know is, I have 6 TL3 and they all feed and eject all my calibers like fucking butter. CRF and mechanical ejection is the shit... just my $0.02

 

[4O6shootist]

I mean I don't know about with a 223rem...but I can't tell you how many cartridges I've had friends with same caliber bitch and complain about feeding and ejection issues in a rem700...6br...220TB, 6GT....

All I know is, I have 6 TL3 and they all feed and eject all my calibers like fucking butter. CRF and mechanical ejection is the shit... just my $0.02

My 22gt running from arc mags in my origin feeds so damn nice, even better than the 6gt in my nucleus from arc mags. I cant even tell it stripped a round from the mag.

 

[PracticalTactical]

Guys with 223 teainers, is there any benefit to running a crf action like the origin vs a push feed? My main rig is an origin as well, but also run several others on my hunting and tactical rigs.

Control round feed is also controlled round ejection...

A push feed action like a Rem 700 uses a spring to eject the spent shell and that puts a dent in the case mouth if the spring is not significantly weakened from factory spec.

A controlled round feed action will only eject the spent shell after it has clear access out the ejection port, therefore no dented neck.

Why do dents in your case mouth matter? Well that spans a variety of issues like affecting runout of your reloads and feedback regarding neck clearances.

If you really want accurate reloads, you do not want your case mouths dented at ejection.

 

[Jabot]

My 223 is in an origin.
Feeds flawlessly and very smooth.
I had a 223 in a savage before the origin, that's a whole other subject through

 

[4O6shootist]

Control round feed is also controlled round ejection...

A push feed action like a Rem 700 uses a spring to eject the spent shell and that puts a dent in the case mouth if the spring is not significantly weakened from factory spec.

A controlled round feed action will only eject the spent shell after it has clear access out the ejection port, therefore no dented neck.

Why do dents in your case mouth matter? Well that spans a variety of issues like affecting runout of your reloads and feedback regarding neck clearances.

If you really want accurate reloads, you do not want your case mouths dented at ejection.

Thats so true......I sold my impacts and deviants and went to arc and bighorn, and I honestly like them more and they're much lower priced. I know not integral but I'm really happy with em.

Gonna spin it up to my nucleus

 

[padom]

My Origin is one of my favorite actions. I have it built into a hunting rifle so I don't get to use it as much as I'd like but it is so smooth. It's one of the original 2018 $750 pre-orders

Im surprised to hear this from you. I have no digs or problems with my 1 Origin I built my sons .223rem off of.. I personally recommend it all the time to guys wanting to makeover Rem700's or dont want to spring for a TL3. I think its the best value action on the market, dollar for dollar. But it definitely has a heavier bolt lift and isnt quite as smooth as my TL3's.. Do you notice that as well with your Origin compared to your TL3's?

I had a local buddy wanting to switch from his Nucleus to a Bighorn but wasnt sure on the cheaper Origin or to just get a TL3. He asked to finger fuck mine so I brought both of mine for him to play with. First thing he noticed without me mentioning anything was the heavier bolt lift on the Origin so it definitely wasnt just me..

 

[4O6shootist]

Im surprised to hear this from you. I have no digs or problems with my 1 Origin I built my sons .223rem off of.. I personally recommend it all the time to guys wanting to makeover Rem700's or dont want to spring for a TL3. I think its the best value action on the market, dollar for dollar. But it definitely has a heavier bolt lift and isnt quite as smooth as my TL3's.. Do you notice that as well with your Origin compared to your TL3's?

I had a local buddy wanting to switch from his Nucleus to a Bighorn but wasnt sure on the cheaper Origin or to just get a TL3. He asked to finger fuck mine so I brought both of mine for him to play with. First thing he noticed without me mentioning anything was the heavier bolt lift on the Origin so it definitely wasnt just me..

I hated the bolt lift and cock on close in my origin with a TT trigger the first year i had it. After reading a post here, i contacted Zermatt about a different cocking piece, wgich they shipped for free immediately. Night and day difference. Lightened bolt lift, all cock on close gone, maintained 235k pinfall. I love it now. The tl3? Well it has less than 200k pinfall out the factory, that's a no no for consistent ignition.