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.224 Grendel vs .224 Valkyrie
- Thread starter K_4c
- Start date
I have a bolt gun in .308 as well, so I think this combination would match each other. Bigger bullet for bigger game, smaller and faster bullet for small game and PRS.
Yes you can; blow the shoulder out.
6 Dasher left with 105 Hybrid, 22 Fat Rat (22 AR T40) with 88 ELD right. Fireforming gives you Valkyrie velocites with excellent accuracy.
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Not hardly. A 6mm Dasher or BRX in an AR15 will push 105s to 3100 out of a 22" barrel. A 224 Grendel RAT will barely push 80s to 3100 out of a 22" barrel with accuracy. I've been shooting several Grendel cats since 2007 when Whitley first made the 6mmAR. This is what happens when you push Grendel cases to hard...the dreaded Grendel belted magnum
Who runs dashers at 55000PSI? This is a high speed function test with 95smks doing 3200, 22" 37gr N550
Well that's why you can't get a 105 up to 3100. For every 3500-5000 psi we increase we gain 100fps. IIRC I've been using 35.5gr Re17 and N550 in the BRX since 2009 or 10..
No, I always run Krieger tightbore 6mms, .236
No, I always run Krieger tightbore 6mms, .236
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Federal has been talking about new ammo for months and looks like some may be getting close. 83gr Bergers and the 90smk has a thicker jacket said to reduce deforming during loading which should make seating and jump to the lands more consistent. Hornady has been loading the 88s but IMO they need to load the 80s also.
How long would that bolt last at those pressures. Can we expect those numbers from the 6 predator with the titan bolt?
Arp sells a .556x42. Constructor is the man behind arp. It is s good round running 75s at 3000 fps from a 20" barrel. I have one, and it runs right around a 1/2-5/8 moa out to 950 or 1000 yards. .22 bullets seem to suck past that. The 88s are better, but i have had better luck with the 6mm.
To the op the difference between a valk and grendel being you need a little more barrel for the valk, but factory support favors it.
The BRX shown had a 800 series bolt which is stronger than the Titan but I've been running it with a .473 case dia at 60k+ since 2009 easily 4000 shots. The Titan has a .750 head diameter instead of .800 but the rim diameter is only .442. It may not be as strong but the case can't handle as much pressure so it should last as long as the 800 series that are being used with .473 cases. Not 1 single 800 series or 750XD bolt has ever broken.
No. A 6BRX or Dasher has a lot more case capacity and can run 60-65000psi.
A 6mmAR, 243LBC, Predator or 6mm Grendel are all based on Grendel brass which I thin. That is how they get as much case capacity as they do. All are based on the 220 Russian which has a max pressure rating of 52000 psi, that's why the Grendel has a 52000 psi max. Norma brass will handle more but still 55-58000 is max with a Grendel type case.
The Titan bolt will handle 58-60k easy so we don't have to worry about that breaking. Then the Grendel case become the weakest link.
A 6mm AR etc will push a 105 to around 2750-2800 out of a 20" max, that is all the cases will handle.
I've been wildcatting since 82 when I made my first big magnum. During the last 30 something years of developing way over 100 cats I have ruptured 4 cases, 2 were Lapua Grendel cases.
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Works fine in my AR and boltgun. People have been shooting the 6mm version for years with heavier bullets...
I made a long neck + shoulder bump bushing that replaces the internals in a Redding Competition seater die. The shoulder is set at 20 degrees. I adjust it so that the false shoulder is in the right location. I just lube the neck on a piece of 6.5 Grendel and run it into the die, then wipe off the grease and load it. If I run a mandrel into the neck, then run the case into my 6mm Fat Rat sizer with a 0.251 bushing it'll shoot a little better. But, I don't really find the need to do that on fireforming loads... Any 22 cal. sizing die with a 20 degree shoulder would work if it accommodated the Grendel case. Just cut it down to fit. The Lee 224 Valkyrie seating dies works perfectly with it without any modification. I modified a Lee 224 Valkyrie Factory Crimp die to work with it, but haven't found the need to use it yet. I have a Whidden 6mm Fat Rat set I use on my Co-Ax for the boltgun. I use the Lee dies on the Dillon for the AR.
If you want to move brass easily use 20 degrees. Here is a die I made for a Custom 7mm round I created that used a 300 RUM as the parent case. It was between a WSM and a RUM in size and had a 35 deg. shoulder. I bumped the shoulder down in steps at 20 deg. then formed the shoulder. Ended up with cases that were equivalent to factory brass without having to do any major fire forming.
If you want to move brass easily use 20 degrees. Here is a die I made for a Custom 7mm round I created that used a 300 RUM as the parent case. It was between a WSM and a RUM in size and had a 35 deg. shoulder. I bumped the shoulder down in steps at 20 deg. then formed the shoulder. Ended up with cases that were equivalent to factory brass without having to do any major fire forming.
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The quote isn't showing up in my browser for some reason, I assumed you were quoting the short neck comment...
On lapua Brass I turn the necks to .013”, lube brass with imperial die wax, I have 3 Redding type S FL bushing dies set up in my 650 with my expander mandrel in last stage. I use the same two bushings you started with but use a 251 final bushing on starline and lapua ( I don’t neck turn starline or Hornady) for .002” neck tension. I then tumble to remove wax. Anneal the brass. Trim, chamfer, debur, prime, drop powder, seat, shoot, smile
Ok this is an old thread, but whatever. I could not resist the temptation any more and ordered a 224 Grendel barrel fro ar15performace. Can I size 6.5 Grendel down to 224 Grendel brass with a Hornady Custom full length sizing die in one step, or do I need to go a Redding type s bushing die? From what I have read, most are using the Redding die, but I cannot find any reports of anyone trying a one step sizing. For what it is worth, AR15Performance lists the Hornady die set as an add on for the barrel.
Yes, I have his die and did one step sizing with no problems.
Your going to love the 22 pred
You can neck down in one step with a FL die. If you use a bushing die (Redding or others) you'll need to do it in several steps. Bushings don't work as well for necking down.
Even if you object to the idea of necking down in one step (some guys just refuse to believe it works well) you could buy a cheap Lee 6 PPC sizer die for an intermediate step.
You can do it in one step. Imperial size wax works best and go a little slower than normal.
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Barrel and dies showed up today. Sizing the brass is stupid easy, barely and inconvenience.
Now to a new question. Does 2.16" sound short for 88gr ELDM in this chambering? I seated a bullet at 2.26 and colored it with a sharpie, then pushed it up into the chamber. I backed the bullet down into the case until the marker was undisturbed when fully seated in the chamber. An additional 10 thou gets me to 2.16.
Now to a new question. Does 2.16" sound short for 88gr ELDM in this chambering? I seated a bullet at 2.26 and colored it with a sharpie, then pushed it up into the chamber. I backed the bullet down into the case until the marker was undisturbed when fully seated in the chamber. An additional 10 thou gets me to 2.16.
That method can be misleading. Are you familiar with the cleaning rod method of measuring max OAL to the lands? It's fast, easy, and more accurate. It's best if you have a sliding stop fitted on the rod, but can do a crude measurement to just a sharpie mark. Basically you insert the rod from the muzzle and measure to the bolt face, set the stop at the muzzle for your zero, then do the same against the tip of a bullet jammed into the lands (seat a round long and chamber it gently till it stops). Measure between the muzzle and your stop on the rod; that is your max OAL for that bullet in that chamber. No guesswork needed.
Thanks Yonderling. That is almost too easy to work. I found a post by constructor on another forum where he references the tight free bore of his barrels, and that the Hornady COAL tool won't work because you'll feel the free bore and not the lands. His rec was to load long and use the lands to push the bullet back into the case, then measure. Looks like I've got a bit more work to do.
It is a 224LBC reamer from JGS, should be the same as all the other 224LBC and 22 Grendel reamers. I didn't try any 88s but this is what I was loading to.
| 95smk | 2.273 | |
| 80 berger VLD | 2.224 | |
| 80.5 berger | ||
| 75 Horn | 2.085 | |
| 80 Amax | ||
| 75 Amax | 2.22 | |
| 75ELD | 2.24 | |
| 77TMK | 2.17 |
Constructor, you're loading the 95s to 2.27, I thought the max magazine length is 2.26"?
Also, how fast are you sending out the 95s? There isn't much space left in there after seating that bullet.
Most mags will allow 2.295", these aren't 5.56 magpul mags. 27-2800 depending on the powder, CFE, N540 and even N550
