- Thread starter Niles Coyote
- Start date
What are your numbers at the end of your velocities?
If your goal is to get the most out of the cartridge shooting heavies ( 88 ELD, 90SMK, ETC) you want a long freebore reamer.
Call Keystone Accuracy and order a barrel with my long freebore reamer. Will allow you to shoot heavies with maximum velocity before hitting pressure.
Anyone try the MDT 224 valk polymer mags yet? https://mdttac.com/ca_en/mdt-polymer-magazines.html
I have 2, just waiting on barrel, so we will see in a couple weeks
I've been running a couple of them for a few months. No complaints.
They work. As do the metal BR mags (with some tweaks to the feed lips ).
Is anyone loading for a bolt gun. Went out this weekend to find the velocity nodes for my new 24in barrel and at 25 grains of shooters world precision with a 88 eld-m I am only getting 2760 fps. Which to me seems slow but not for sure.
2760 is just about right for the 88 eldm, at least out of an AR anyway. I imagine you could go faster, but it’s not needed.
I can find alot of data for the ar platform but not much for the bolt gun platform which is what I'm running it in.
I realize that, but just wanted you to know that the 2750 range seems pretty stable for that bullet.
You might want to take a look at 6.5 sta-ball. Running the 88's in my 22 nosler, I got 3000 FPS from a 22 inch barrel. I'm loading long, just a bit over listed max load.
the nosler has a bit more case capacity than the valk.
Winchester list the velocity right around what your getting, pressure at 53,000 psi. You should be able to load longer than ar15 mag length, which gives you a bit more capacity.
Ok that makes me feel a little better then about the speed I'm getting. At .3 over the max I'm not showing any pressure signs so I might try bumping it up some more and see what I can get out of it.
I don't have 88eldm data for a bolt gun, but I did Chrono Berger 85.5s and saw a Max velocity around 2800 in a 26" barrel. My notes show terrible groups above 2750fps. Like 3-4+ moa.
Wow that's really bad grouping
I bought 6 Valkyrie barrels, and tried to get every powder and every bullet for sale, and then started testing recently. Added a Valkyrie section to my hobby site.
I find that its much more difficult to find consistent loads with this, than in 5.56. All these barrels I have, when you shoot 77 grain or lighter, I get a lot of really good groups, but the moment I go 80 or more? Less good goods frequency. its probably the bullet jump, as I have not tested a lot of OAL yet. I don't ilke how all these VLD are 35k+ to the lands and maximum mag length, generally. I want to put VLD right near lands. I will probably test hand loading into AR 1 at a time, to see if 5k off the lands or touching makes any difference.
Krieger & Rainier Ultramatch 1:7.5 is on the way to me, for more testing.
I find that its much more difficult to find consistent loads with this, than in 5.56. All these barrels I have, when you shoot 77 grain or lighter, I get a lot of really good groups, but the moment I go 80 or more? Less good goods frequency. its probably the bullet jump, as I have not tested a lot of OAL yet. I don't ilke how all these VLD are 35k+ to the lands and maximum mag length, generally. I want to put VLD right near lands. I will probably test hand loading into AR 1 at a time, to see if 5k off the lands or touching makes any difference.
Krieger & Rainier Ultramatch 1:7.5 is on the way to me, for more testing.
I'm running mine in a bolt gun so I'm not running into issue with mag length like people who are using an ar. I was very surprised though that the box of american eagle 75 gr Tmj rounds I bought shot super consistent and almost one hole groups.I bought 6 Valkyrie barrels, and tried to get every powder and every bullet for sale, and then started testing recently. Added a Valkyrie section to my hobby site.
I find that its much more difficult to find consistent loads with this, than in 5.56. All these barrels I have, when you shoot 77 grain or lighter, I get a lot of really good groups, but the moment I go 80 or more? Less good goods frequency. its probably the bullet jump, as I have not tested a lot of OAL yet. I don't ilke how all these VLD are 35k+ to the lands and maximum mag length, generally. I want to put VLD right near lands. I will probably test hand loading into AR 1 at a time, to see if 5k off the lands or touching makes any difference.
Krieger & Rainier Ultramatch 1:7.5 is on the way to me, for more testing.
At about 600 and in, that has been my experience with the AE TMJ also. Great fun ammo for $10/box.
I bought 6 Valkyrie barrels, and tried to get every powder and every bullet for sale, and then started testing recently. Added a Valkyrie section to my hobby site.
I find that its much more difficult to find consistent loads with this, than in 5.56. All these barrels I have, when you shoot 77 grain or lighter, I get a lot of really good groups, but the moment I go 80 or more? Less good goods frequency. its probably the bullet jump, as I have not tested a lot of OAL yet. I don't ilke how all these VLD are 35k+ to the lands and maximum mag length, generally. I want to put VLD right near lands. I will probably test hand loading into AR 1 at a time, to see if 5k off the lands or touching makes any difference.
Krieger & Rainier Ultramatch 1:7.5 is on the way to me, for more testing.
My personal suspicion is it isn't the bullets per se, a bad design or bad lot. I'm beginning to think it's just bullet deformation from long for caliber bullets being shoved into a fast twist barrel. The skinny .223 bore being most susceptible (sans sub caliber heavies, .17 & .20's for example, but they usually have very heavy jackets for their diameter).
That's the only thing I can think of that explains the across the board experience by folks as they go up in bullet weight. I think an experiment with different gain twist rates could be done to prove this theory out, but I'm not in a position to dump $ on 5-10 barrels of differing gain twists to prove/disprove it.
JMTCW...
I shot the AE and hornady 88gr match ammo didnt have a single issue with the AE ammo but ended up with almost 10 rounds that wouldnt fire looks like light primer strikes. Going to check tonight to see if its the ammo or what.
Hello, thank you for your comment. Out of the 6 barrels, 2 are 1:7 and have same issue as 1:6.5. To also test this, I lowered and raised velocity to see if it does same thing. Also, a weird thing you can see on my site is that I loaded some real hot 75 Grain Hornady rounds, and they KEY HOLED in the 1:6.5. these were 3000+ FPS. This could explain your theory...if you load too hot, the high velocity combined with the fast twist makes it unstable. I am going to do some lots for testing in the ~2500 FPS range, not to exceed 2600 for the 88,90 grain bullets to see if your theory, which is logical and I like
works. I could not stabilize the 85.5 Berger Hybrids in the 1:7 twist barrel, they keyhole at various velocities. I should take those in same barrel and take off 300 FPS to see.
Also, the 55 Grain Berger Match keyholed like crazy at ~3400 FPS in the 1:6.5. Maybe that was expected. But on other tests from other people, you lower the velocity, they shoot just fine.
New Cartridge, lots to learn. I will write articles to coorelate all the findings, after I test another 2 barrels, and another 10 bullets, and ~25 powders. I am starting to understand this Cartridge better and better as the days pass.
I think Rainer maybe was on to something with the 1:7.5 as that barrel shoots 90 grain, and my 1:8 WOA 5.56 shoots 80 grain just fine. So why the hell do we need 1:6.5? I don't think we do. But I am not confident yet. More testing...
Were any of these barrels a gain twist?
Interesting. No wonder your so damn creative in your thinking. You are one of the few.. Of course. Thank you for your comment. If you know anyone that has a barrel like this, I will test the crap out of it. It would be interesting to know if the gain 1:8 to 1:6.5 for example, would perform since its not shocking the living shit out of the round the moment its fired. That may work for this caliber? Where did you get this idea? 20MM cannons on the front of Helicopters and other things?
I never seen a gain barrel advertised, or maybe I have not looked. Seems like it may be worth testing on this...who has one I can borrow?
I never seen a gain barrel advertised, or maybe I have not looked. Seems like it may be worth testing on this...who has one I can borrow?
My Valkyrie Boltgun is a 7.5-6.7 LH GT and has no drama shooting anything.
I am still not getting all these accuracy issues, I find it really hard to wrap my head around what people are doing. Granted the only handloads I have shot were Brian Whalen's but I have absolutely no drama with my JP or Boltgun shooting any factory loads from 60gr to 90gr. I tend to stick with the 88s and on the cheap the 75gr but man, I see no issues.
I even shot the old Federal load out of the Boltgun and it's working fine, I can shoot it and it holds sub-MOA. Nothing I am shooting is going over 3/4 MOA, not gasser or bolt, the bolt has been consistency 1/2 MOA.
Weird for sure
I am still not getting all these accuracy issues, I find it really hard to wrap my head around what people are doing. Granted the only handloads I have shot were Brian Whalen's but I have absolutely no drama with my JP or Boltgun shooting any factory loads from 60gr to 90gr. I tend to stick with the 88s and on the cheap the 75gr but man, I see no issues.
I even shot the old Federal load out of the Boltgun and it's working fine, I can shoot it and it holds sub-MOA. Nothing I am shooting is going over 3/4 MOA, not gasser or bolt, the bolt has been consistency 1/2 MOA.
Weird for sure
In my App I have the Valkyrie at 2750s with 88s and that seems to be decent
lowlight:
I dont have a bolt gun to compare. But I am totally confident a Valkyrie bolt gun is a thing a greatness, and I bet .3 MOA is achievable with proper tuning and good markmanship. In 224 Valkyrie, I have been "generally" shooting lights out groups for an AR with all match bullets I am able to properly tune the distance to lands. Generally with "tangent" Ogive bullets 20k to lands is lights out. <80 grain bullets like Berger OTM 77's. Being that my experience tells me near touching lands is good for VLD type bullets, I cannot do that, or even close, in the AR(80+ grains) with magazine. The 70 grain Berger's I tuned closer to lands, where lights out fine. I do not have enough experience, yet, to make conclusions, I am testing AR platform only.
I think I will chop off the end of 1 magazine, so I can load 2.245 or whatever is required to touch lands, and go back from there. I think that will teach me a lot.
Thank you for your post. If you know any barrel makers willing to make me a "Gain" twist AR15 barrel, I would like to ask who, and then if its OK with you, contact them to talk over a possible purchase.
Have a good day
I dont have a bolt gun to compare. But I am totally confident a Valkyrie bolt gun is a thing a greatness, and I bet .3 MOA is achievable with proper tuning and good markmanship. In 224 Valkyrie, I have been "generally" shooting lights out groups for an AR with all match bullets I am able to properly tune the distance to lands. Generally with "tangent" Ogive bullets 20k to lands is lights out. <80 grain bullets like Berger OTM 77's. Being that my experience tells me near touching lands is good for VLD type bullets, I cannot do that, or even close, in the AR(80+ grains) with magazine. The 70 grain Berger's I tuned closer to lands, where lights out fine. I do not have enough experience, yet, to make conclusions, I am testing AR platform only.
I think I will chop off the end of 1 magazine, so I can load 2.245 or whatever is required to touch lands, and go back from there. I think that will teach me a lot.
Thank you for your post. If you know any barrel makers willing to make me a "Gain" twist AR15 barrel, I would like to ask who, and then if its OK with you, contact them to talk over a possible purchase.
Have a good day
Same here. The 88 ELDMs are running pretty consistently at 2750 FPS in my 22” AR barrel and are shooting very good for me. I’ve only shot factory 75, 88 and 90 in mine and have had great results too.
It’s unfortunate and odd that some others are having so much trouble with the round.
Anyone got a go to load for 77 gr TMK and CFE223 in a bolt gun?
I had to double check that charge as well. If I remember Berger gave me a quickload max of 27.7
I spoke to Bryan briefly about this in the latest podcast
He has a very good take on the issues people are seeing
He has a very good take on the issues people are seeing
Hello all,
A newbie here with a question. I want to build a .224 Val on a Savage action. I’m having trouble finding a bolt head for it. Can anyone point me in the right direction for finding one? Thanks in advance for the help.
A newbie here with a question. I want to build a .224 Val on a Savage action. I’m having trouble finding a bolt head for it. Can anyone point me in the right direction for finding one? Thanks in advance for the help.
Lowlight, may I have a link to the podcast? I love to listen to all perspectives and learn the most I can. Thank you. I been testing valkyrie alot and have some theories. After I am done testing 6 different barrels, I will write some articles with some evidence to support. Currently, I am not sold on 1:6.5 twist and I am leaning to say that 1:6.7 or 1:7 are ideal. I see no argument for 6.5 that is supported yet...too many shredded bullets.
I am going to get this thing figured out, write some articles. Help as many people as I can so they can have fun and not be frustrated with this caliber. Its potential IS SO GOOD!
I am going to get this thing figured out, write some articles. Help as many people as I can so they can have fun and not be frustrated with this caliber. Its potential IS SO GOOD!
I got the 88 elds up to 2830 fps out of a suppressed 24 in barrel. Shot great and soft except for the light strike issues I'm having now on my nucleus action. Believe its cause I have the 16 lb spring instead of the 25 lb ones they now come with.
I finished load development today. 88 ELD over Varget in Starline brass. Avg 2884 FPS SD 10.
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