- Thread starter DAVETOOLEY
- Start date
I've had people contact me and ask about the problem. I've known people and seen their rifles that were having the issues. I personally have never had the problem.
I've had many people contact me about many different quirks about the 300 PRC...and I'm at a loss...because both my barrels have run flawlessly. They were chambered with the same reamer by the same gunsmith to an original round of a retail 225gr ELD-M cartridge. I've run many different bullets, two kinds of brass, and many different powders. I've shot light loads....all the way up to loads that I would never even post here...and I've posted some pretty stout loads on here. I've blown primers out....and I've had a few heavy bolt lifts on loads that were stupid...but in general....they feed/function/extract with absolutely no issues.
I trim to 2.565 and stay away from the 2.575 and 2.580 listed in other places. My brass rarely grows. I trim as part of my reloading process EVERY time and about 20% of them lightly touch and trim at most... 1/2 a thou off. I anneal.... EVERY time....I push the shoulder back 2-2.5thou...I keep the die the same...the Hornady will push back 2.5thou and the ADG pushes back 2 thou.
My action is a Defiance Deviant Tactical and my barrel is a Bartlein....chambered by Greg and Russ at bugholes....so maybe my particular tolerances, mixed with my choice of chambering/reamer, mixed with my particular reloading techniques....keeps me from having issues that some people are having. There are just soooo many minute variables that go into play here. If I've never had the issue myself....it's hard for me to diagnose for others.
I am admittedly out of my element, but will try to add to the discussion.
The first picture is four once fired (factory) Hornady 225s flanked on each side by an unfired case. You can see, on the four middle cases, the issue Alex discusses. The two other pictures show the measurement of a new and once fired case at the web.
Supposedly, the fired case, is not being resized at the web during the full-sized process, which creates the issue. I believe Alex had a new reamer made that is like 2 ten thousandths over spec at the web to alleviate the issue. Supposedly, others have polished the rear of their chambers a tad to do the same, and others have taken a sizing die and used a lathe to cut it off so the web is also resized.
I've read the threads and decided to contact Larry Willis at Innovative Technologies thinking his collet resizer might work. It won't as it relies on the belted area to hold the collect while the die works. However, Larry did say he was aware of the issue and suggested only bumping the shoulder 0.0015, not the 0.002 - 0.003 some bump. Apologies in advance if I got this wrong.
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I just got .5310 at the web with once fired Hornady in a Redding FL die. (Looks just like your brass). .5320 is the SAAMI spec. Not sure I understand the issue this presents.
You asked for it.
The PRC Die Problem
6.5PRC Die not Sizing Enough I believe they also talk to the 300 PRC in this thread also.
Just ran thru that and watched the video at the bottom of this page.You asked for it.
The PRC Die Problem
6.5PRC Die not Sizing Enough I believe they also talk to the 300 PRC in this thread also.
Videos | wheeleraccuracy
www.wheeleraccuracy.com My 300 prc is still in jail. I bought the brass once fired. I wonder what my chamber will be like
I bet if somone compiled a list of barrel manufacturers having issues we would see a trend.
I have a Xcaliber barrel and use Hornady brass and Dies with no issues.
Someone sent me once fired brass from a Seekins Havok and it was swollen and unable to be sized.
I have a Xcaliber barrel and use Hornady brass and Dies with no issues.
Someone sent me once fired brass from a Seekins Havok and it was swollen and unable to be sized.
We would have to know what reamers they're using, no?
and how used they were
and who made the reamers
First thing's first. Who are you going to call to find out what reamer was used?
If the reamer was worn, wouldn’t it produce a tight chamber? And therefore minimally sized brass? And not swollen oversized?
valid
Just sayin, even my brass that I sacraficed to the pressure gods and show signs of case head separation dont swell that much.
New Hornady is .5290
My fattest fired cases measure .5320
3rd party Seekins cases that wont resize are measuring .5340+
Spring back on trying to size the body .005" that far down is too great. Remember this is the non annealed portion.
My bet is a batch of out of spec reamers made it into the wild. The only way I see to trace it back is make a list of barrel manufacturers.
New Hornady is .5290
My fattest fired cases measure .5320
3rd party Seekins cases that wont resize are measuring .5340+
Spring back on trying to size the body .005" that far down is too great. Remember this is the non annealed portion.
My bet is a batch of out of spec reamers made it into the wild. The only way I see to trace it back is make a list of barrel manufacturers.
As someone who suffers from SCS (Small Chamber Syndrome), this is my bet. Brass coming out of my current chamber measure .529 - .530.
Currently waiting on my new custom Whidden die.
So when are you going to buy your own reamer?
Got 15 of these for factory ammo ... they're awesome.
Amazon.com: Plano 131250 1312 Ammo Box,OD Green 131250,4.80 x 7.40 x 11.60 inches: Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com: Plano 131250 1312 Ammo Box,OD Green 131250,4.80 x 7.40 x 11.60 inches: Sports & Outdoors
www.amazon.com
For finished handloads ... nothing beats the MTM cases.
Deluxe Ammunition boxes for rifles by MTM Case-Gard™ - Plastic ammunition reloading boxes and cartridge cases
Deluxe Ammunition reloading boxes and cartridge cases for rifles
www.mtmcase-gard.com
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So when are you going to buy your own reamer?
Went out again today with @BFuller and was talking to him about that. I think from here on out, any new caliber/chamber I get done is going to be be from a reamer I own.
Makes sense, especially if you go custom die route. Every concurrent barrel would be the same. Can you match dies to a reamer?
Where you guys shooting at these days?
Almost as far into Tumey as you can go. Found a good spot - having a Jeep significantly helps. At least this trip pucker factor was down and we didn't have any situations where rolling off a 300 foot cliff was a distinct possibility. That was all reserved for the last trip.
EDIT: Video is forthcoming. We only set up at 1450 because we didn't notice a couple target spots that would have gotten us to 2k or so. But then, wind was blowing 16, gusting higher, and hitting at 2k in those conditions would have been tough anyway. We also set up a target at 760 and fired standing, no rear bag, off the hood of the Jeep with my 6 BRA - was fun.
Also, shot the whole day without touching a ballistic calculator. Dialed in everything using guestimates off of DOPE from similar range shots.
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Sounds like fun. Some of those trails are sketchy and change season to season. Hit me up some time if you dont mind another shooter rolling out. I have a bunch of steel targets and other stuff.
Yeah, last trip there were a few really iffy sections of road. One going down to our shooting spot on that trip had a washout on a shelf road with a multi-hundred foot drop below, and a sloped high side that caused a significant cant of the Jeep. Later we were on very sketchy dried clay that was very soft and slanted in all the wrong directions.
Are you saying this because of scarce ammo availability ... or because of some kind of ballistic problem? Just curious because I'm early in my 300-PRC load development work, and seeing good results thus far.
Because ammo is scarce or pushing $4rd and reloading supplies are non existent or just as outrageous.
The whole reason I went 300PRC over 338LM is that I didnt want to shoot $5 bills.
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If that's the case, I suspect prices will drop on the rifles, and I'll be there to pick up a few. This is a short term problem. 6 months to a year max, and for what I see to be a great cartridge, I'll wait it out. And pick up a box here and there as needed.
Totally get that ... if you're supplying now from scratch. Luckily I have 400 rounds (2 full cases) of Hornady ELDM-225 cartridges, and sufficient reloading supplies to build thousands more from scratch using that fired factory brass ... so I I'm in good shape (for now). My 9,000 LR primers and four 8-lbs jugs of Accurate MagPro are looking pretty good on the shelf right now. I used to fly C130's in the Marine Corps and the old aviation joke was:
Q: What are the three things you can never have too much of?
A: (1) Runway in front of you, (2) Altitude beneath you, and (3) Fuel in the gas tank.
Now the answers are:
A: (1) Primers on the shelf, (2) Powder in the jugs, and (3) Brass in the bin.
Ton of 338 supplies around HAHAHA.
If Hornady was more strategic in their marketing and manufacturing they would take advantage of the current market and overproduce more ammunition in 300 PRC and 6.5 PRC. More people and future customers would be willing to invest in these calibers due to ammunition availability. This would ultimately solidify and cement the 300 PRC and 6.5 ORC calibers futures giving Hornady the market share of the 300 caliber and 6.5 calibers. However, it seems as though Hornady is only focused on the current demand and is focused on increasing production of the common calibers such as 9mm, 223, 308, and maybe 6.5 CM while only maintaining status quo on all others such as the 300 PRC and 6.5 PRC.
I agree so please, don't take my comments as argumentative.
My opinion is the numbers just don't support any manufacturer's ability to do anything but try and meet distributor demand. There have been record firearms sales each month, I think they said 4 million in December? If there are just 3M new 9mm owners and each just wants one 50rd box of ammo, we need 150M 9mm rounds. Add in .223/5.56, .308 and 6.5CM, and the need must be astronomical.
I think hunting season also created an issue as production needed to account for the Fudds that shoot one box a year, but now that there's a panic, they need 5 boxes of calibers many of us may not shoot. I've seen the H212 ELD-Xs, but haven't seen a 225 ELD-M (at a decent price) since November. I actually bought the 300 PRC so I wasn't burning $5 bills with each pull of the trigger, but it seems that won't be the case for some time.
So, I guess it's an incredible demand that has met a production capacity across the industry that can't be easily increased. Building a new plant would take time, adding more machines would still be reliant on the flow of components (I believe there are only two primer manufacturers in the U.S. (?)), copper prices are rising, etc., etc. I hope it gets better towards the end of the year but we've seen a 15% increase in the pricing to distributors that ends up being 50% by the time it makes it to us.
/Rant Off
Lets get this thread back on track. I went out and tried some Ramshot LRT over the weekend.
24" barrel
Virgin Hornady brass
215M
225ELD @ 2.900 bto
20 rds and one ragged hole.
24" barrel
Virgin Hornady brass
215M
225ELD @ 2.900 bto
| 79 | 2543 | ft/s |
| 79.5 | 2606 | ft/s |
| 80 | 2513 | ft/s |
| 80.5 | 2595 | ft/s |
| 81 | 2586 | ft/s |
| 81.5 | 2541 | ft/s |
| 82 | 2614 | ft/s |
| 82.5 | 2617 | ft/s |
| 83 | 2662 | ft/s |
| 83.5 | 2637 | ft/s |
| 84 | 2736 | ft/s |
| 84.5 | 2712 | ft/s |
| 85 | 2768 | ft/s |
| 85.5 | 2728 | ft/s |
| 86 | 2760 | ft/s |
| 86.5 | 2826 | ft/s |
| 87 | 2820 | ft/s |
| 87.5 | 2811 | ft/s |
| 88 | 2813 | ft/s |
20 rds and one ragged hole.
There seems to be some inconsistency with the progression. What were your thoughts?
I noticed that also, It definitely makes some big jumps. It's totally possible i fucked something up somewhere. But then again its half grain increments. I just did it to see what speeds im looking at and the last 4 look promising. 15fps over 1.5 grain spread, I'll take that any day.
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How’d you manage to buy it? They aren’t taking back orders according to their customer service.
Wow! Maybe I need to switch to Ramshot LRT. Im using Ramshot Magnum.
225ELDM
78.1grn
Hornady Brass
CCI #250
26" Barrel
AVE. 2873fps
Pretty decent 1/2 moa groups.
My stats just for comparison.
Your grouping is impressive for using different powder charges. When I was doing load development summer 2020 I had velocities like yours, up and down and them some real wildlings. Turns out my balance beam was out of wack once it got over 55ish grains. I think saw some youtube of guys doing ladder tests and velocities dropping slightly after hitting the node. Node, plataue, then drop then spike. Ive done testing at .2grn increments and saw similarities. Im pretty amature, just an idea for something to look at or into.
Im real curious what kind of average and standard deviation you'll get with LRT.
I've got a new barrel and now I'm trying to figure out who I'm going to have chamber it. I'm also torn between the 300PRC and the 300SM......looks like the Sherman mag is getting some awesome speeds and decent brass life. Any thoughts on the Sherman chambering?
There's a guy that jumps into every 300 PRC thread to tout the Sherman. If you do a search, you may be able to find him and those threads. He may even be in here somewhere earlier in the pages.
Dave Tooley, who started this thread, helped pioneer the 300 PRC and I had him chamber a blank for me. It shoots well when I do my part - shots 16-20 during break in attached (100y, prone) using factory Hornady 225s.
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I've already got my dies and some brass for the 300PRC and am 90% sure I'm going with the PRC over the Sherman mag. Just wanted some input. I've read this thread probably 3 times through and have also gone through the Sherman thread on long range hunting forum. Both are pretty awesome to be honest. I just need to pull the trigger on my barrel and get it chambered in 300PRC.
has anyone heard when the 300 prc Lapua brass will be released? It was originally in January, but obviously that has come and gone.
I believe they actually said 2nd quarter of 2021.
uhhh, I'm dying here! I'm using Hornady now, but will just wait...........
Thanks. You are correct. I've done that a couple of places, and have ADG at some places also.
Anyone know if you can put a backorder on N568 anywhere? Or ADG for that matter?
I was able to backorder hornady 300PRC brass on swfa.com. Right now beggars can't be picky and hornady brass is better than no brass.
Be quick - Hornady 300 PRC.
ETA - It lasted for longer than I expected. Hope some here scored it at $55 a box.
ETA - It lasted for longer than I expected. Hope some here scored it at $55 a box.
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Edit: gone in under a minute.
