300 PRC update

JBarton

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 1, 2020
342
200
Wyoming
FYI

 

b2lee

Stealthy
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Dec 30, 2018
    1,665
    1,985
    52
    N. KY
    My brass arrived...got lucky...my box had 100pcs in it. Another box hasn't been opened yet.

    Brass measured from base to shoulder using the SAC Comparator measures exactly the same as my Manson Go-Gauge. Overall length is 2.5715 with maybe a half thou deviation.

    Necks are very very tight. Mandreled them with a carbide mandrel and they were still tough. I may re-anneal and mandrel them again after I chamfer and deburr them. I'll probably shoot 50 tomorrow to work them in...for an ELR match next weekend. I want the neck tension to be as consistent as possible for that match.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: bunny too

    phlegethon

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 4, 2018
    1,482
    1,330
    My box had 102 pcs. I measured the once fired case capacity at 95.85 grains water, essentially the same as Hornady (96.14, but I don't think these measurements can be that precise). The length at the shoulder for me was identical between virgin and once fired.

    I did end up turning all the necks to 0.013" since a bullet would not drop through the fired neck.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: bunny too

    TripleBull

    This one goes to 11
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 13, 2017
    4,199
    22,073
    Sunny Colorado
    Just run the VV565 with the 215 or 230

    Agreed. Post 14 in the link below shows some of my results:

     
    • Like
    Reactions: bunny too

    bunny too

    Just a cook
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 5, 2020
    300
    307
    Wyoming
    Fast barrel?
    I was trying out my some loads yesterday and my load #4;
    75.5gr H1000 under a 230 gr A-Tip was throwing 2885 fps, average (of five shots) was 2884 with s SD of 2.2 (Labradar) with no pressure signs.
    Hornady manual states it should be around 2760. I am using an ATv3 to measure powder. 42 degrees @ 7220'. Any ideas to the discrepancy or is this within the realm of tolerances? Barrel is a 28" Bartlien 400MOD 1 in 9, accuracy was a half inch group at 100 yards. I am very happy with the load just a little puzzled, I was not supposed to hit that velocity until two more grains (and then only 2825 fps.)
     

    bunny too

    Just a cook
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 5, 2020
    300
    307
    Wyoming
    77 gr. H1000 gets me 2900 in a 28” Bartlein and each .5 gr. was worth about 20 fps.
    So, I’d say you’re fortunate. (Or the A-Tips are slicker than the Hybrids)
    Thank you DellaDog, (maybe it is those magic machined tips that cost a quarter a piece!)
     

    Defender3

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Mar 8, 2010
    918
    1,025
    Behind Enemy Lines
    My brass finally arrived from Midway. The case had been opened and taped shut, but I did have 101 cases.

    ETA - It was shipped in a large cardboard box with plenty of paper padding.
     
    Last edited:

    b2lee

    Stealthy
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Dec 30, 2018
    1,665
    1,985
    52
    N. KY
    Went out with my buddy and shot the new Lapua brass today. I wanted to get a firing on 50 pieces before shoothing them in an ELR match next weekend. First off....I got 100 pieces in my box....the box wasn't broken. MidwayUSA should be kicked in the nuts for throwing that Lapua box in the cheapest bubble bag they could find for shipping though.

    Brass came in....with about 3 case mouths that needed opened with a mandrel. I did NOT resize the brass because when I measured against what I wanted....they came from the factory within a half thou of where I wanted to be. The necks were EXTREMELY tight. I mandreled with a carbide mandrel and they were tough to deal with. When I seated the bullets....they were 120in/lbs to shove the bullet in....when normally I strive for 20in/lbs. Basically...I thought I was going to break my arbor press pushing them in. I was worried about concentricity...but the Sinclair/LE Wilson arbor die supports the cartridge as well as the bullet and they came out almost perfect.

    Today...I hooked up my MagnetoSpeed and shot a few fowlers on a freshly cleaned barrel and then shot a 20 shot string. Speeds were way more consistent than I would have thought...due to the neck tension issues.

    Max: 2891
    Min: 2874
    ES: 17
    SD: 6.9

    I'll take that all day long...eventhough I can halve that SD and trim just a bit off that ES if I go through my normal process after this first firing. Groups were boring...nothing in the 2's.....mainly in the 3's with some 5's....the 5's were me moving the turrets around trying to get that perfect zero though. I had to re-zero down 0.4mils....but that's also due to the fact I'm pointing bullets and have a different harmonic. I re-adjusted my barrel tuner +2 and shot in the 3's. I get really bored at 100yds.....but I don't have a place within a few hours to test this stuff at 1000+.

    I'll go back after I reload these 50 and maybe put 10 on paper again to verify. I think I need 30 rounds for the ELR match and I'll take 40.

    Here is the AMP AZTEC Code I got from burning a piece of brass. I would be interested in what code you guys get:

    AMP_Lapua.png
     

    bunny too

    Just a cook
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 5, 2020
    300
    307
    Wyoming
    The necks were EXTREMELY tight. I mandreled with a carbide mandrel and they were tough to deal with. When I seated the bullets....they were 120in/lbs to shove the bullet in....when normally I strive for 20in/lbs. Basically...I thought I was going to break my arbor press pushing them in.
    Very. very tight. I had to mandrel them twice to get on the lathe, I took them down to .0145 neck wall thickness for concentricity (about .0005 off.) The primer pocket I cleaned up a little but the flash hole and interior were beautiful! Do they drill the flash hole from the inside out or through the primer pocket in?
     

    TripleBull

    This one goes to 11
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 13, 2017
    4,199
    22,073
    Sunny Colorado
    Mile High had it on the shelf

    They had a bunch less after I walked out today...

    Plenty left, don't worry. Smile High Shooters Supply will make y'all happy.

    @375fan - Mile High only occasionally updates their web site. Give them a call and ask for them to hold brass till you get in to pick it up.
     
    Last edited:

    Bradv86

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 18, 2019
    349
    208
    TX
    In stock for now, no limits.

    26 minutes later.. 1 left in stock, which likely means you won't get it if you are reading this now!
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: bunny too

    bunny too

    Just a cook
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 5, 2020
    300
    307
    Wyoming
    In stock for now, no limits.
    And a great price!
     

    Frank Green

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Oct 27, 2006
    1,443
    1,942
    wisconsin
    www.bartleinbarrels.com
    Fast barrel?
    I was trying out my some loads yesterday and my load #4;
    75.5gr H1000 under a 230 gr A-Tip was throwing 2885 fps, average (of five shots) was 2884 with s SD of 2.2 (Labradar) with no pressure signs.
    Hornady manual states it should be around 2760. I am using an ATv3 to measure powder. 42 degrees @ 7220'. Any ideas to the discrepancy or is this within the realm of tolerances? Barrel is a 28" Bartlien 400MOD 1 in 9, accuracy was a half inch group at 100 yards. I am very happy with the load just a little puzzled, I was not supposed to hit that velocity until two more grains (and then only 2825 fps.)
    I'm at 76gr and running right at 2900fps +. Barrel length is 32" but I thought about cutting the barrel back to 30" as I don't feel the extra 2" is giving me anything extra.

    I did try some rounds at 78gr. but no sense in beating anything up.

    This is on a F class gun and it will hold just over a 1/4moa at a 1k yards. That was shooting both the 225 ELDM's and the 230SMK that day. Barrel is a 1-9 twist as well. My SD's where running 6.7 and that was for a 14 rounds fired. All the SD's where running 10 or less.

    I haven't stretched the 230 ATIP past 500 yards yet but they are laser beams as well!

    What primer you using?

    Later, Frank
    Bartlein Barrels
     

    davethedog

    Just a guy shooting stuff
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 17, 2020
    230
    77
    Denver, CO
    Fast barrel?
    I was trying out my some loads yesterday and my load #4;
    75.5gr H1000 under a 230 gr A-Tip was throwing 2885 fps, average (of five shots) was 2884 with s SD of 2.2 (Labradar) with no pressure signs.
    Hornady manual states it should be around 2760. I am using an ATv3 to measure powder. 42 degrees @ 7220'. Any ideas to the discrepancy or is this within the realm of tolerances? Barrel is a 28" Bartlien 400MOD 1 in 9, accuracy was a half inch group at 100 yards. I am very happy with the load just a little puzzled, I was not supposed to hit that velocity until two more grains (and then only 2825 fps.)
    Id say so. Granted mine is a 24" but I am getting 2800FPS on the nose with 76.8Gr H1000 and a 230 A Tip.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: bunny too

    bunny too

    Just a cook
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 5, 2020
    300
    307
    Wyoming
    I'm at 76gr and running right at 2900fps +. Barrel length is 32" but I thought about cutting the barrel back to 30" as I don't feel the extra 2" is giving me anything extra.

    I did try some rounds at 78gr. but no sense in beating anything up.

    This is on a F class gun and it will hold just over a 1/4moa at a 1k yards. That was shooting both the 225 ELDM's and the 230SMK that day. Barrel is a 1-9 twist as well. My SD's where running 6.7 and that was for a 14 rounds fired. All the SD's where running 10 or less.

    I haven't stretched the 230 ATIP past 500 yards yet but they are laser beams as well!

    What primer you using?

    Later, Frank
    Bartlein Barrels
    Fed 215M; you and your crew do excellent work Frank, I am getting 1.7" groups at 600 yards (and that is with the Wyoming wind.) Thank you!
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Frank Green

    LongRangeAggie

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 27, 2019
    152
    35
    Central TX
    Found a pretty good load for my Christensen MPR 26" 1:8 carbon fiber. Need to play with seating depth, but pretty limited with the mag length.

    Berger 245 EOL
    77.1grs VV N570
    Hornady once fired brass
    CBTO 2.906" (0.060" off lands) mag length restricted
    Federal 210

    However this load had a horrible SD and ES of 18.9 and 47. Take the first shot away and it's fine, first shot was one off to right.
    Shot 1 - 2807
    Shot 2 - 2781
    Shot 3 - 2774
    Shot 4 - 2762
    Shot 5 - 2760
    Avg=2776
     

    Attachments

    • Screen Shot 2021-05-11 at 8.26.48 AM.png
      Screen Shot 2021-05-11 at 8.26.48 AM.png
      727.9 KB · Views: 3
    • Like
    Reactions: bunny too

    davethedog

    Just a guy shooting stuff
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 17, 2020
    230
    77
    Denver, CO
    Found a pretty good load for my Christensen MPR 26" 1:8 carbon fiber. Need to play with seating depth, but pretty limited with the mag length.

    Berger 245 EOL
    77.1grs VV N570
    Hornady once fired brass
    CBTO 2.906" (0.060" off lands) mag length restricted
    Federal 210

    However this load had a horrible SD and ES of 18.9 and 47. Take the first shot away and it's fine, first shot was one off to right.
    Shot 1 - 2807
    Shot 2 - 2781
    Shot 3 - 2774
    Shot 4 - 2762
    Shot 5 - 2760
    Avg=2776
    Can’t help but notice that your shots are getting slower each time. How long are you waiting between shots?
     

    davethedog

    Just a guy shooting stuff
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 17, 2020
    230
    77
    Denver, CO
    Yeah that's odd isn't it. I wait around 1-2 mins.
    In my experience that’s not enough, especially with a carbon barrel. You’re shooting in a thermos with a stainless steel liner. It takes way less heat for that steel liner to expand causing velocity loss because of how thin it is. Try getting a little barrel cooler or waiting longer.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: LongRangeAggie

    b2lee

    Stealthy
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Dec 30, 2018
    1,665
    1,985
    52
    N. KY
    @LongRangeAggie Try switching to the 215M primer. It reduced my ES/SD. I shoot rather quickly on my groups...as in 5 shots in less than 30 seconds. Since my 'thing' is shooting 1 mile Benchrest...I need the most consistent muzzle velocities I can get. My friends laugh when I say I need to keep my ES under 10 and my SD at around 2-3fps. They say 'Impossible'....but alas I have achieved that with a 300PRC and a reloading process that most people wouldn't dream of spending time doing.

    Here is a 1 mile group from a few weeks ago:

    Berger245EOL_1mileVert.png

    If you notice. The first shot is high on paper. I saw the splash behind the target and new it was a high shot. I lowered on the target and sent the other 4 as fast as I could get back on target. You see an insane vertical spread of around 2" at a mile. The horizontal was due to a 12-15mph wind that would blow and let off from second to second. While the high shot put this at a 21.619" group, I was beyond happy with the outcome of the group. I was the only one to keep 5 on target that day. That target is an IBS 1000yd Target....but shot at 1mile.

    Later in the day I shot a 1000yd target and the Verticals at 1000 are just plain crazy:

    Berger245EOL_1000ydVert.png


    You will notice the wind monster ate me up again...but that is a 0.71" vertical on that target at 1000yds. Getting your SD and ES down as low as you can will allow you to achieve this sort of precision at long range. If the wind would have been nice that day....I could have had an epic day with the 300PRC. These groups were shot with Berger 245's, RL-26, Fed215's...and shocker... Hornady 375 Ruger Brass converted to 300PRC on like the 5th firing.

    So...I suggest you try out the 215M primers and see if the Magnum primers give you better ignition and help shrink your ES/SD to a point where it won't affect you as much at long range.

    BTW....these groups were shot with a TACTICAL gun...not a benchrest gun. Scope is a ZCO 5-27 with MPCT3 reticle...so don't think I went out and shot with a typical BR light gun on linear bearings with a $2500 front rest and a 50x scope...I did it with my ELR gun.

    Have a great day and I hope you enjoy your 300PRC as much as I have over the last 2 years.
     

    BCX

    Major Hide Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 18, 2018
    1,975
    924
    b2lee, how is your vertical w the 250 A-Tips at 1k and 1 mile?
     

    b2lee

    Stealthy
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Dec 30, 2018
    1,665
    1,985
    52
    N. KY
    b2lee, how is your vertical w the 250 A-Tips at 1k and 1 mile?

    I haven't shot an A-Tip in a while. My reloading methods have evolved quite a bit since then. However, after the next two matches...if I don't get a resupply of 245EOLs...I'll be back to 230gr A-Tips...and I'll tell you then. I think I can get close to the same verticals with the A-Tips....I think the tips are close enough to give a great consistency to BC. Last year I did shoot some 5 and 6" groups at 1k with a tactical rifle with the 230 A-Tips...but I can't remember the verticals vs. the horizontals...Maybe I'll look through my saved targets in the next few days.
     

    BCX

    Major Hide Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 18, 2018
    1,975
    924
    Thanks for looking out Defender3...........Save some for my 30 SM rifle. Hahaha.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Defender3

    375fan

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 5, 2011
    150
    20
    59
    Central Ohio
    They had a bunch less after I walked out today...

    Plenty left, don't worry. Smile High Shooters Supply will make y'all happy.

    @375fan - Mile High only occasionally updates their web site. Give them a call and ask for them to hold brass till you get in to pick it up.
    Called Mile High today, said they had some and took my order. Said should ship in couple days. Waiting on email confirmation
    Thanks for tip about calling them .
     
    • Like
    Reactions: TripleBull

    babyguppy

    Private
    Minuteman
    Apr 17, 2020
    43
    9
    question. I see lots of people using the Hornady 230 gr Atip (G7 -0.414) or Bergers 245 gr EOL (G7- 0.413) . Has any used the Patriot Valley Arms "Seneca Match" 212 grain? It has a (G7 - 0.461) monolithic ? If you run that through their calculator.. their 212 only has to go 2950 FPS and the AMAX would have to move at 3291 to get the same results due to lower G7 of the AMAX. Thoughts ??
    pva bullet
    grains-212​
    fps-2950​
    G7 -0.461​
    250 grain
    250​
    3190​
    0.426​
    230 Amax
    230​
    3291​
    0.413​

     

    b2lee

    Stealthy
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Dec 30, 2018
    1,665
    1,985
    52
    N. KY
    question. I see lots of people using the Hornady 230 gr Atip (G7 -0.414) or Bergers 245 gr EOL (G7- 0.413) . Has any used the Patriot Valley Arms "Seneca Match" 212 grain? It has a (G7 - 0.461) monolithic ? If you run that through their calculator.. their 212 only has to go 2950 FPS and the AMAX would have to move at 3291 to get the same results due to lower G7 of the AMAX. Thoughts ??
    pva bullet
    grains-212​
    fps-2950​
    G7 -0.461​
    250 grain
    250​
    3190​
    0.426​
    230 Amax
    230​
    3291​
    0.413​


    You ever tried to get Monolithics to have consistent BC or MV?
     

    babyguppy

    Private
    Minuteman
    Apr 17, 2020
    43
    9
    You ever tried to get Monolithics to have consistent BC or MV?
    no, I have no experience with them what so ever; hence I was asking. I was just seeing what others have experienced in pitfalls or successes.
    I'm a learn from other's mistakes, since you won't have time to make them all yourself type of guy.
     

    b2lee

    Stealthy
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Dec 30, 2018
    1,665
    1,985
    52
    N. KY
    The A-Tips and Bergers have given me consistent speeds and BC's....I need that to score well at 1 mile+...and shooting 1k yd paper. I'm not a fan of Solids....by the time you get them to shoot good...you need to change barrels and start all over again....atleast in my experience.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: bunny too

    Mk32784

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 1, 2017
    611
    330
    question. I see lots of people using the Hornady 230 gr Atip (G7 -0.414) or Bergers 245 gr EOL (G7- 0.413) . Has any used the Patriot Valley Arms "Seneca Match" 212 grain? It has a (G7 - 0.461) monolithic ? If you run that through their calculator.. their 212 only has to go 2950 FPS and the AMAX would have to move at 3291 to get the same results due to lower G7 of the AMAX. Thoughts ??
    pva bullet
    grains-212​
    fps-2950​
    G7 -0.461​
    250 grain
    250​
    3190​
    0.426​
    230 Amax
    230​
    3291​
    0.413​


    Rader testing form litz/AB has shown the PVA monolitihics to have pretty crap BC consistency bullet to bullet... I would pass.

    I have shoot 230 atips, 220 LRHT, 245 EOLs, with good success. Solids aren't worth it in this size imho.
     

    phlegethon

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 4, 2018
    1,482
    1,330
    question. I see lots of people using the Hornady 230 gr Atip (G7 -0.414) or Bergers 245 gr EOL (G7- 0.413) . Has any used the Patriot Valley Arms "Seneca Match" 212 grain? It has a (G7 - 0.461) monolithic ? If you run that through their calculator.. their 212 only has to go 2950 FPS and the AMAX would have to move at 3291 to get the same results due to lower G7 of the AMAX. Thoughts ??
    pva bullet
    grains-212​
    fps-2950​
    G7 -0.461​
    250 grain
    250​
    3190​
    0.426​
    230 Amax
    230​
    3291​
    0.413​

    First, the A-tip is not the AMax, it’s a newer design. I believe your BC values for both the 250 and the 230 are low.

    Second, you need a 7 twist barrel for that solid bullet, which no one uses and would be useless for a jacketed bullet. And there is no way that BC holds up in independent testing. Solids are a necessary evil in larger calibers (0.375+) but generally have a history of exaggerated BC claims that don’t bear out in reality, and tend to have worse performance in transonic.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: b2lee

    gnochi

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 6, 2019
    858
    585
    Orange County, CA
    Rader testing form litz/AB has shown the PVA monolitihics to have pretty crap BC consistency bullet to bullet... I would pass.
    I would be very interested in seeing that data. Was it taken with a sufficiently fast-twist barrel to stabilize?
    and tend to have worse performance in transonic.
    This is a good general rule, long and skinny things don’t like transonic. However, your transonic range can nearly double.
     

    high right

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 24, 2013
    430
    141
    Colorado
    I was told by several reputable smiths to look at every record ever set accuracy wise. No monolithic bullets in any discipline. May be a different story for the uber elr, but nobody is shooting super small with them as of yet.