- Thread starter Sportin Wood
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Prime/Norma new brass, 147gr ELDM, FGMM LRP, 41.7gr H4350, 2.802 COAL
Bartlein SS Heavy Palma 1:7.5 6.5CM finished by PVA, TRG22
Thunder beast ultra9 was used during this session. (Though I have found it makes no difference. Nor does using a Biscuit or KGM R30K in place of the Ultra9…)
(shot 10 rounds through half inch hole at 100 yards)
This is primarily a test to see if using an analytical balance would yield better results than a charge master; The charge master would say 41.7 grains but would be anywhere 41.5 to 41.85gr.
Even though people are probably annoyed that I bought cases of norma prime brass… The stuff is awesome
Bartlein SS Heavy Palma 1:7.5 6.5CM finished by PVA, TRG22
Thunder beast ultra9 was used during this session. (Though I have found it makes no difference. Nor does using a Biscuit or KGM R30K in place of the Ultra9…)
(shot 10 rounds through half inch hole at 100 yards)
This is primarily a test to see if using an analytical balance would yield better results than a charge master; The charge master would say 41.7 grains but would be anywhere 41.5 to 41.85gr.
Even though people are probably annoyed that I bought cases of norma prime brass… The stuff is awesome
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Same rifle as the post above… One of my new favorites that I wish I could get more of:
After trying to figure out what bullet this is it is a 140SMK… The G7 BC was derived from ammunition testing by eagle eye.
It’s another one of those ammunitions that shoot a 1/2 ragged hole (10rnds) at 100 yards.
Had a wonderful conversation with the owner of Prime Ammunition. The moment they have more in stock I’ll be buying stuff from them.
It’s a shame that spark ammunition went out of business as they are closer to me, and while all of the loads have not always worked in my rifles, the SD of their ammo has always been super low.
After trying to figure out what bullet this is it is a 140SMK… The G7 BC was derived from ammunition testing by eagle eye.
It’s another one of those ammunitions that shoot a 1/2 ragged hole (10rnds) at 100 yards.
Had a wonderful conversation with the owner of Prime Ammunition. The moment they have more in stock I’ll be buying stuff from them.
It’s a shame that spark ammunition went out of business as they are closer to me, and while all of the loads have not always worked in my rifles, the SD of their ammo has always been super low.
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In general the Hornady has been unimpressive when it comes to SDs. The TAP 147gr ELDM is better then the rest.
Given that I loaded 147s with an under 10 SD means that it’s a Hornady issue.
TAP 147gr 65CM:
Given that I loaded 147s with an under 10 SD means that it’s a Hornady issue.
TAP 147gr 65CM:
Late to party but how would the Lab Radar correct for the velocity based on the decreasing acceleration? It would have to know the air density and temp etc to be accurate…. And even then in theory the decelerations x_o could be anywhere….. no? It’s also been a hot sec since college Newtonian physics….
Does Norma make all the Prime 6.5 CM brass? I purchased some Prime 6.5 brass about a year ago. I thought it might be made by Peterson.
It picks up the radar reflections off the base of the bullet very soon after it passes the Labradar, and it can make simple assumptions and do a pretty good correction. Not much correction needed.
Bigger error will come from users not correctly entering the distance between device and muzzle (for the trigonometry calcs to compensate for the angle difference). Some folks permanently attach a fixed length rope to the device and use that to control spacing, then the distance remains the same, and you don’t need to go into the setup menu every time.
This is the original Prime brass from when RWS was contracted to make the ammo. However, they dicked Prime over in a move to take over the brand, and then they sold off all of the components….
I don't mean to hijack this this thread. I'm trying to get my reloading setup rolling. How important is a chrono? What brand would you recommend for a noob? I'm usually a buy once, cry once.
Also, I came across some Nosler 140gr RDF rounds at the LGS and they seem to shoot rather crappy compared to the Sierra MatchKing Comp ammo. I haven't received my hornady comparator yet to measure ogive to base, but neck OD is .296 where are the MK are .292. Both finished to .297 after firing. I understand it's factory ammo, I'm just taking mental notes for future bullet purchases.
Rifle: Bergara B14 HMR 22" barrel, 1:8 twist, 22", APA Little Bastard break(gen 3), Night Force SHV 5-20x56
Thanks in advance
Also, I came across some Nosler 140gr RDF rounds at the LGS and they seem to shoot rather crappy compared to the Sierra MatchKing Comp ammo. I haven't received my hornady comparator yet to measure ogive to base, but neck OD is .296 where are the MK are .292. Both finished to .297 after firing. I understand it's factory ammo, I'm just taking mental notes for future bullet purchases.
Rifle: Bergara B14 HMR 22" barrel, 1:8 twist, 22", APA Little Bastard break(gen 3), Night Force SHV 5-20x56
Thanks in advance
OK, the first thing you wanna do and see if you can find some factory ammo that seems to shoot well in your rifle.
This will give you an idea of what rounds your barrel liles and which ones it doesn’t.
Then you want a chronograph the factory loads that seem to work well for you.
That will give you a velocity that indicates this bullet works well at X speed in your barrel.
The next easiest thing to do is to work up a load that actually is the same velocity with the same bullet as the ones you tested in the factory ammo.
The easiest way to do that is to have some sort of capture box at your house so you can shoot your test rounds with the chronograph.
once you have that ready to go, you take your test rounds to the range by loading .2 grains above and below your test rounds.
I find this method is one of the easiest methods to use… Because otherwise you’re loading a bunch of rounds that are in .2 increments until you find a load and brass combination that works well for you. (which also means that you’re taking apart a bunch of rounds that didn’t shoot well for you before you hit the proper node…)
Using this method I was able to determine that 147 grain ELDM and 142 grain SMKare loved by my current rifle. I was also able to hit a load dead on without any issues the first time I went to the range (147gr/Norma brass/FGGM LRP/41.7gr H4350) since I had an example of the factory ammo working very well, it was a piece of cake to get the same velocity by testing at home prior to making a trip to the range.
i’d recommend that you pick up a Magnetospeed because it’s easier to deal with initially.
there are lots of ways to do this… But using some technology to make your life easier is probably a better way to go.
This will give you an idea of what rounds your barrel liles and which ones it doesn’t.
Then you want a chronograph the factory loads that seem to work well for you.
That will give you a velocity that indicates this bullet works well at X speed in your barrel.
The next easiest thing to do is to work up a load that actually is the same velocity with the same bullet as the ones you tested in the factory ammo.
The easiest way to do that is to have some sort of capture box at your house so you can shoot your test rounds with the chronograph.
once you have that ready to go, you take your test rounds to the range by loading .2 grains above and below your test rounds.
I find this method is one of the easiest methods to use… Because otherwise you’re loading a bunch of rounds that are in .2 increments until you find a load and brass combination that works well for you. (which also means that you’re taking apart a bunch of rounds that didn’t shoot well for you before you hit the proper node…)
Using this method I was able to determine that 147 grain ELDM and 142 grain SMKare loved by my current rifle. I was also able to hit a load dead on without any issues the first time I went to the range (147gr/Norma brass/FGGM LRP/41.7gr H4350) since I had an example of the factory ammo working very well, it was a piece of cake to get the same velocity by testing at home prior to making a trip to the range.
i’d recommend that you pick up a Magnetospeed because it’s easier to deal with initially.
there are lots of ways to do this… But using some technology to make your life easier is probably a better way to go.
Unfortunatly, I'm unable to let off any rounds at my house. My club is a 30 min drive, no worries. I always have at least on pistol on me to shoot 
. Bergara gives a recommended load for their most accurate cartridge. I can't recall everything off hand besides eld-m 140gr. I got some from a buddy at work. Have some h4350 in route. Getting some cci mag srp this week. I'll look into the magneto speed chrono. Thanks for the scoop. Much appreciated
. Bergara gives a recommended load for their most accurate cartridge. I can't recall everything off hand besides eld-m 140gr. I got some from a buddy at work. Have some h4350 in route. Getting some cci mag srp this week. I'll look into the magneto speed chrono. Thanks for the scoop. Much appreciated Suppressor and a capture box that could handle 300WM… It’s save me a shit load of time and effort. (I already had an insane HEPA filtration device that wasn’t being used, and it’s never really more than four or five rounds… just enough to determine if I’m at the right velocity.)
Hornady factory match ammo is close to the max load. When they can get it they use H4350. I've measured dozens of their factory rounds and they average 2.814 COAL with 140 ELD-M's. So, length translates to the jump to the lands. Change that around for accuracy. Of course, if you can do a ladder test of powder weights you can find a flat spot to assist with velocity consistency.Unfortunatly, I'm unable to let off any rounds at my house. My club is a 30 min drive, no worries. I always have at least on pistol on me to shoot
Capture box as in a bullet trap? Also, would you suggest getting the magneto v3 full kit or the sportster slimmed down kit?
I'm going to go with the full v3 kit. Could use the added accessories down the road for different caliber developments. Thanks again!
Good to know. ThanksHornady factory match ammo is close to the max load. When they can get it they use H4350. I've measured dozens of their factory rounds and they average 2.814 COAL with 140 ELD-M's. So, length translates to the jump to the lands. Change that around for accuracy. Of course, if you can do a ladder test of powder weights you can find a flat spot to assist with velocity consistency.
The only thing with some of the hornady factory ammo I have is that some of it has very large SDs.
i’ve been very surprised by how bad the ES and SD has been, in fact.
i’ve been very surprised by how bad the ES and SD has been, in fact.
Ser, I've had
See, I've had the opposite experience. All I've shot in 6.5 CM was their match 140 & 147 ELD-M, and everytime the SD's were single digits. But, my gun, being a gas gun, hates them. I shoot my reloads at a 2.800 COAL much better. Of course, my SD's are in the high teens, lol.
Hornady factory match ammo is close to the max load. When they can get it they use H4350. I've measured dozens of their factory rounds and they average 2.814 COAL with 140 ELD-M's. So, length translates to the jump to the lands. Change that around for accuracy. Of course, if you can do a ladder test of powder weights you can find a flat spot to assist with velocity consistency.
I'm going to have to go back and measure my cartridges. I could have sworn the factory stuff I had was 2.800". I've been using a factory round and the 'max COAL' dummy cartridge I built to calibrate my comparator caliper as I seat new bullets.
Up until your post, I thought I had found the sweet spot using 40.5 grains of H4350 and a 140 ELD-Match seated for a COAL of 2.821".
We'll, I'm certain of my measurements, but because I shoot a gas gun my chamber is likely very different from a bolt gun, and probably most other semi autos. I wouldn't be surprised if another gun preferred longer, especially a bolt gun. In fact, I was surprised my gun preferred 2.800 over longer.
I know that LMT MWS chambers are designed with 140 grain bullets in mind…. When I called them that’s what they actually told me.
Rvrry
Every 140 bullet will be a bit different in terms of it's jump to the lands. VLD bullets with a secant ogive jump a bit further. Some bullets want more or less jump, etc. Plus every throat is just slightly different. So generally what people do, and what I tried to do was figure out what COAL my gun shot most accurately and what powder charge seemed most consistent. It's an ongoing process. Then things will change as your throat erodes. I can't be as precise as some, but it became very obvious that my gun likes a fairly short COAL of 2.800 for 140 ELD-M's. By obvious I mean I went from 1.5 moa at 2.850 to less than.5 MOA at 2.800. And, I don't really shoot that we'll.
They specifically mentioned Hornady , Sierra, and Burger.
What is the purpose of this type of target?
I've seen this type of target at my 100/200 yard range, but have no idea what its purpose is.
I get the whole power charge, COL stuff, but what is the square box for and how is it used when aiming?
I've made my own scale targets in PowerPoint and print them on 60# card stock.
(see my profile pic for an example with 1/4" grid lines and a 1" blue circle)
I'm hoping someone can explain why I need to add a big bold square above my bullseye.
I've seen this type of target at my 100/200 yard range, but have no idea what its purpose is.
I get the whole power charge, COL stuff, but what is the square box for and how is it used when aiming?
I've made my own scale targets in PowerPoint and print them on 60# card stock.
(see my profile pic for an example with 1/4" grid lines and a 1" blue circle)
I'm hoping someone can explain why I need to add a big bold square above my bullseye.
I think we're talking about 2 different things. What I'm saying is every gun and bullet combination will like something s little different. That doesn't mean they won't shoot, just some combination of charge, bullet and length will shoot best.
Some folks like a point to aim at that is not the point of bullet impact. That keeps the aim point sharp and easier to see.What is the purpose of this type of target?
I've seen this type of target at my 100/200 yard range, but have no idea what its purpose is.
I get the whole power charge, COL stuff, but what is the square box for and how is it used when aiming?
I've made my own scale targets in PowerPoint and print them on 60# card stock.
(see my profile pic for an example with 1/4" grid lines and a 1" blue circle)
I'm hoping someone can explain why I need to add a big bold square above my bullseye.
I think it’s a great idea!
I have been chasing down components and it has been a pain in the but!! I’m going to try some of the Superformance on some rounds, haven’t yet found H4350, and paid out the nose for primers. I will be working up to shoot a local monthly 1k yard match.
If I'm understanding correctly, the shooter dials their scope up 1 MOA (assuming those are 1/2" grid lines and you're shooting from 100 yards). That way the rounds hit the bullseye while they are aiming 1" higher -- at the center of the dark border square.
I usually shoot 5-shot groups, so I can relate to having issues aiming at the center of a bullseye after drilling it out with multiple rounds. Unfortunately I don't experience that problem nearly as often as I'd like.
I think I'm going to make up some similar targets for this weekend.
Actually, it's the reverse. You dial up, but continue to aim at the center of the orange bullseye. The bullet strikes should be in the dark-bordered square.
You can also just change your point of impact and shoot at the bullseye of any target. That is what most people do. The problem is that by doing so you are robbing a target maker of a marketing gimmick.
Yep, LRP primers have been hard to find.
One viable work-around is to switch to SRP brass like Lapua, Peterson, both top-notch quality, or Starline (an econo brand), and then prime with CCI450’s, which is their small rifle magnum primer. They seem to be in stock most of the time.
Just fair warning that some bolts/firing pin holes have too much gap, and are not SRP friendly and you may see pierced primers. Then you need to get your bolt bushed. I had no issues using SRP brass so far, and never needed to get a bolt bushed, but maybe i was just lucky. Lapua SRP brass lasts 20-25 reloads, making them cheaper per shot.
Maybe try to get one or two boxes of Berger factory match ammo, which uses Lapua SRP brass.
One way to beat the hoarders: Shoot what they don’t shoot.
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Yuge Disclaimer: The below loads are way over published loads. The following is not a recommendation! Start below published and work up for your rifle.
I haven't been able to find much good data for Reloader TS 15.5 in 6.5 Creedmoor.
Published loads from Alliant show top end of 37.9 for Berger 130 Hybrid's???
This is a bulky powder with a burn rate between RL15 & RL16 so something seemed a little off with their load data??
My thoughts are that with 120-130 class bullets it should be a sweet spot for this powder.
After doing some modeling in Gordon's it looked worth a try.
The disparity between Alliant's load data & the Gordon's model are huge. One of them is FUBAR!
I'll get this out of the way now. Gordon's or any other internal ballistics software is not to be taken as gospel. Sometimes it's pretty damn close & others not even close. For example with Lever Evolution it's out to lunch on speeds & pressure for 6ARC & 224 Valk.
One of the first things I look at in Gordon's that's very useful is case fill. It has been very accurate with that as it should be. It's also a good first check. If case fill prediction doesn't jive with what your seeing I'd stop right there & not trust anything predicted beyond that.
For this TS 15.5 at Alliant's max load for the Berger 130 hyb (37.9gr) modeled in Gordon's predicted an 86% case fill. Tells me the powder might not be a great candidate, since I like to be 90%+ and ideally (personal preference) 92% +.
But wait, before ruling it out I look at pressure & here is where there seems to be a huge disconnect in data. Max Alliant load in Gordon's is showing an anemic 47,354psi with MV of 2712. This is way off the data posted above, over 100fps.
Alright my original theory seems to hold water based on Gordon's so down the rabbit hole I go.
Another check I like to do when entering unknown territory is this. I simply write down all the Gordon's predicted MV's for the charges I'll be trying and then compare to actual data for the first shots. Who's data is closer to correct? Gordon's or Alliant's.
Spoiler it was Gordon's, in this instance their model for TS 15.5 seems to be pretty close.
Before this gets to be a damn novel here are the results I landed on. Again, this is my rifle worked up, don't start here. My accuracy and speed node starts 2.9gr above Alliant's max load.
Gun Is ARC Nuke with PVA 24" Rock Creek + Precision Armament 4 port MB. Shot from bench with Magnetospeed V3, Atlas Cal, & Mark Taylor Rear bag. about 750 rounds on barrel. Also worth noting it is a fast barrel.
Lapua virgin SRP brass with unknown primer. I bought the brass already primed? It's Silver & not BR4 so could be CCi450, FGMM 205M, or???
Brass prep was to run it through Redding type S with .289 bushing followed by 21st Century .2625 mandrel with dry Graphite lube. No shoulder bump. The Lapua was spot on for shoulder location.
Berger 130 OTM hybrid all testing seated to 2.816/2.196 = .055 jump in my chamber.
Reloader TS 15.5
40.8 x 5 = 2910 sd 6.3 Gordon's prediction 2882
41.2 x 5 = 2936 sd 7.3 Gordon's prediction 2905
41.4 x 5 = 2961 sd 5.8 Gordon's prediction 2929 predicted pressure for my top load was 62,375psi or just under max allowable (63,091).
Case fill is 94.4% for the 41.4 load. I like it. This is showing 100% powder burn and burn out happening at 10" so this powder appears to be an excellent choice for short barrels.
Also worth noting the incremental MV jumps per charge weight predicted vs real life are pretty close. To me this is another indicator that Gordon's powder model of the TS 15.5 is pretty damn good.
Target for the Berger's below was shot left to right. 5 shots each @ 100Y. Before someone asks, yes I adjusted the scope for the 41.4 load far right.
Turn your eye's away from the chewed the fuck up 224 valk brass. Let's just say TS 15.5 isn't a good option for the Valk.
I haven't been able to find much good data for Reloader TS 15.5 in 6.5 Creedmoor.
Published loads from Alliant show top end of 37.9 for Berger 130 Hybrid's???
This is a bulky powder with a burn rate between RL15 & RL16 so something seemed a little off with their load data??
My thoughts are that with 120-130 class bullets it should be a sweet spot for this powder.
After doing some modeling in Gordon's it looked worth a try.
The disparity between Alliant's load data & the Gordon's model are huge. One of them is FUBAR!
I'll get this out of the way now. Gordon's or any other internal ballistics software is not to be taken as gospel. Sometimes it's pretty damn close & others not even close. For example with Lever Evolution it's out to lunch on speeds & pressure for 6ARC & 224 Valk.
One of the first things I look at in Gordon's that's very useful is case fill. It has been very accurate with that as it should be. It's also a good first check. If case fill prediction doesn't jive with what your seeing I'd stop right there & not trust anything predicted beyond that.
For this TS 15.5 at Alliant's max load for the Berger 130 hyb (37.9gr) modeled in Gordon's predicted an 86% case fill. Tells me the powder might not be a great candidate, since I like to be 90%+ and ideally (personal preference) 92% +.
But wait, before ruling it out I look at pressure & here is where there seems to be a huge disconnect in data. Max Alliant load in Gordon's is showing an anemic 47,354psi with MV of 2712. This is way off the data posted above, over 100fps.
Alright my original theory seems to hold water based on Gordon's so down the rabbit hole I go.
Another check I like to do when entering unknown territory is this. I simply write down all the Gordon's predicted MV's for the charges I'll be trying and then compare to actual data for the first shots. Who's data is closer to correct? Gordon's or Alliant's.
Spoiler it was Gordon's, in this instance their model for TS 15.5 seems to be pretty close.
Before this gets to be a damn novel here are the results I landed on. Again, this is my rifle worked up, don't start here. My accuracy and speed node starts 2.9gr above Alliant's max load.
Gun Is ARC Nuke with PVA 24" Rock Creek + Precision Armament 4 port MB. Shot from bench with Magnetospeed V3, Atlas Cal, & Mark Taylor Rear bag. about 750 rounds on barrel. Also worth noting it is a fast barrel.
Lapua virgin SRP brass with unknown primer. I bought the brass already primed? It's Silver & not BR4 so could be CCi450, FGMM 205M, or???
Brass prep was to run it through Redding type S with .289 bushing followed by 21st Century .2625 mandrel with dry Graphite lube. No shoulder bump. The Lapua was spot on for shoulder location.
Berger 130 OTM hybrid all testing seated to 2.816/2.196 = .055 jump in my chamber.
Reloader TS 15.5
40.8 x 5 = 2910 sd 6.3 Gordon's prediction 2882
41.2 x 5 = 2936 sd 7.3 Gordon's prediction 2905
41.4 x 5 = 2961 sd 5.8 Gordon's prediction 2929 predicted pressure for my top load was 62,375psi or just under max allowable (63,091).
Case fill is 94.4% for the 41.4 load. I like it. This is showing 100% powder burn and burn out happening at 10" so this powder appears to be an excellent choice for short barrels.
Also worth noting the incremental MV jumps per charge weight predicted vs real life are pretty close. To me this is another indicator that Gordon's powder model of the TS 15.5 is pretty damn good.
Target for the Berger's below was shot left to right. 5 shots each @ 100Y. Before someone asks, yes I adjusted the scope for the 41.4 load far right.
Turn your eye's away from the chewed the fuck up 224 valk brass. Let's just say TS 15.5 isn't a good option for the Valk.
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Ran some RL 26 with the 147 ELD's
ARC Nuke with 24" PVA 6.5 Creedmoor
This combo is like Vudoo
Virgin Lapua SRP with unknown primer? Brass prep same as post #2810 above.
147 eld seated @2.807/2.175 (Hornady comparator) = .053 jump. I started with this jump based on the excellent Cal Zant/Mark Gordon bullet jump article. If you haven't already seen it, it's well worth a read.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/04/05/bullet-jump-load-development-data/
46.9 = 2904 sd 5.4 .430" group. This shot the best & basically matches the box numbers for factory Hornady 147 6.5 PRC ammo. Slightly compressed no bullet marks with SAC seating die.
47.2 = 2928 sd 8.0 .730" group x .610" vertical*. Compressed with light bullet marks.
47.5 = 2946 sd 6.4 .661" x .170" vertical. More speed than I need. No pressure. Compressed load, bullet marks from seater.
Unbelievable there's got to be Vudoo in RL 26
Of coarse I pulled the last shot left. Below is the 46.9 load. Going to re-shoot that & try 46.7, 46.8 @ .053 jump.
Brass left - Right is 41.8 H4350, RL 26 46.9, 47.2, 47.5
Since that season is fast approaching.
24" barrel
Norma 156 Vulcan seated 2.702 oal/2.258 with Hornady comparator = .020 jump
Lapua SRP virgin
RL 26
45.8 = 2810 sd 8.0 & .9" group @100y showed some promise 2x touching and 1 up.
No pressure signs.
Might shoot a few more with .028 jump, but it's already good enough for any Deer shot I'd be taking. 350y max in WV.
For Maryland I'm sure I'll just grab the 35 Whelen for rifle county. Better in brush and never let me down. Built a 350Legend for shotgun counties & that's next on the loading block.
ARC Nuke with 24" PVA 6.5 Creedmoor
This combo is like Vudoo
Virgin Lapua SRP with unknown primer? Brass prep same as post #2810 above.
147 eld seated @2.807/2.175 (Hornady comparator) = .053 jump. I started with this jump based on the excellent Cal Zant/Mark Gordon bullet jump article. If you haven't already seen it, it's well worth a read.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/04/05/bullet-jump-load-development-data/
46.9 = 2904 sd 5.4 .430" group. This shot the best & basically matches the box numbers for factory Hornady 147 6.5 PRC ammo. Slightly compressed no bullet marks with SAC seating die.
47.2 = 2928 sd 8.0 .730" group x .610" vertical*. Compressed with light bullet marks.
47.5 = 2946 sd 6.4 .661" x .170" vertical. More speed than I need. No pressure. Compressed load, bullet marks from seater.
Unbelievable there's got to be Vudoo in RL 26
Of coarse I pulled the last shot left. Below is the 46.9 load. Going to re-shoot that & try 46.7, 46.8 @ .053 jump.
Brass left - Right is 41.8 H4350, RL 26 46.9, 47.2, 47.5
Since that season is fast approaching.
24" barrel
Norma 156 Vulcan seated 2.702 oal/2.258 with Hornady comparator = .020 jump
Lapua SRP virgin
RL 26
45.8 = 2810 sd 8.0 & .9" group @100y showed some promise 2x touching and 1 up.
No pressure signs.
Might shoot a few more with .028 jump, but it's already good enough for any Deer shot I'd be taking. 350y max in WV.
For Maryland I'm sure I'll just grab the 35 Whelen for rifle county. Better in brush and never let me down. Built a 350Legend for shotgun counties & that's next on the loading block.
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@357Max thanks for 15.5 load data Iv been curious about it looks like it delivers velocity and accuracy. Rl26 is awesome in the 6.5 creed
I run 48 grains with the 143 eldx for hunting. Definitely getting a seating ring from compressed powder but the accuracy .60 and velocity at 2920 out of my tikka I’m super happy with. I’d love to find more to play with all I have now is one pound that I’m using for hunting loads only
I run 48 grains with the 143 eldx for hunting. Definitely getting a seating ring from compressed powder but the accuracy .60 and velocity at 2920 out of my tikka I’m super happy with. I’d love to find more to play with all I have now is one pound that I’m using for hunting loads only
Thanks for the advice I found some CCI LRP’s was like buying diamonds lol but will get me going…you read my mind on the Lapua…will see how the Burger Factory does in the Tikka Bolt….
Hey guys looking for some help with some 135 hornady a tips. I have a great load for 140 eldm and 4530 I tried they same load and it really wasn’t what I wanted. Hopefully one of you guys has a great load with 135s and 4350
It will depend on your barrel and what it likes ultimately…. That said I’ve always had decent results w 42.5gr of H4350 and 135 atips. Decently fast and grouped pretty well.
Trip to the range today to hash out some loads
My rifle REALLY likes 39.3-ish of IMR 4350. Like 1 hole at 100yds kind of likes.
Freedom munitions 140gr factory loads aren't quite as good, but still shoot well too
Accurate 4350 isn't quite as good as IMR 4350, or maybe I haven't found the right load for my Midsouth/Nosler 140gr bthp-s
I'm not quite smart enough to post pics so you'll have to imagine
M
My rifle REALLY likes 39.3-ish of IMR 4350. Like 1 hole at 100yds kind of likes.
Freedom munitions 140gr factory loads aren't quite as good, but still shoot well too
Accurate 4350 isn't quite as good as IMR 4350, or maybe I haven't found the right load for my Midsouth/Nosler 140gr bthp-s
I'm not quite smart enough to post pics so you'll have to imagine
M
I bought 80 rounds of those and used them to sight in my rifle at 200 and they are pretty good and the star line brass is a bonus! So now fire formed brass and I found sone H4350, and some Superformance. Next to work up some loads, find what the gun likes this is all new to me as well.
So anyone have luck with superformance and a 140 class bullet? Picked up 3 pounds of it and wanted to compare starting loads.
Have tried it before, and it worked fine for hunting loads. You often get 150 fps or so more speed than single base extruded powders. It is a flake powder, meters very well, but it is not an “Extreme” powder like H4350, so you should expect it to be somewhat temperature sensitive. Develop a winter and a summer load. I got 0.5” groups at 100 with 142 gn Sierra MK.
Btw: Superformance also gave me good speed and group size in several 30 calibers (308 and 30-06), using the 180 Barnes TTSX bullets.
I would not recommend Superformance for competition loads, as a super hot barrel will push up the speed and change the POI.
Keep your barrel temp moderate during load development, shoot slow, and don’t let the barrel get so hot where you cannot hold it anymore.
Hornady lists 38.2 gn as their starting load and 44.7 as their max load. That is quite a wide range, and most folks would start middle of range and work up in 0.5 or 1.0 increments.
If you know you have a tight (match) chamber and are using thick brass, e.g. Alpha or Norma, then of course start closer to the minimum load. Avoid jammed bullets.
The max load may not be safe in your rifle, so watch out for pressure signs. Hornady manual predicts 2800 fps from a 24” barrel at max charge, but i would prefer to stay 1.0 to 1.5 grain below max, to ensure adequate safety margin in hot weather.
Best of luck - and stay safe.
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Thanks for the detailed write up. I’m gonna start in the middle of the range and work up. It’s a gasser load, so I’m not too worried about speed. If I can get ~2650 out of a 22” barrel I’ll be happy.
Been using Superformance for several years now.
Since I rarely shoot at real winter temperatures (in the Deep South) A winter and summer load is not a serious issue which is parhaps a bit on the unusual side.
I find that 44 grains on Superformance with a 143 grain ELD-X reproduces factory ballistics with that same bullet so close to exact that there is virtually no difference. Rifle RPR
Also, with the RPR I have had excellent performance using the Berger 144 with 43.5 grains of Superformance. Velocity is quite similar and sight settings are quite close as well out to 800 Yards.
I wnt ahead and continued using Superformance with the MPA in 6.5 Creedmoor. However with this rifle, I dropped down to 130 grain bullets and correspondingly dropped the load level to a very similar (44.5 grains, suing a BR4 primer). Velocities are acceptable and the medium powere loads are both easy on the barrel and easy on the shooter. Accuracy is good to 1100 yards.
Unlike Nambihunter, I shoot fast because that’s they way the guns have to shoot. letting the barrel cool is good advice So I watch barrel temps closely. On a good hot summer, unless shooting a match, if the barrel is hot, I let it cool before moving on to the next practice stage.
I have tried H4350 (and in the earlier days just about everything I could find that was recommended for the 6.5.). My personal experience is that the only real way to get H4350 to perform with the accuracy I expect, in my individual rifle (MPA) is in a fairly stiff load. Since, I will never earn an invite to the AG cup, max loads yielding max velocities are just simply not a worry. Superformance does the job.
Accuracy with Superformance in both of my 6.5’s is outstanding.
Since I rarely shoot at real winter temperatures (in the Deep South) A winter and summer load is not a serious issue which is parhaps a bit on the unusual side.
I find that 44 grains on Superformance with a 143 grain ELD-X reproduces factory ballistics with that same bullet so close to exact that there is virtually no difference. Rifle RPR
Also, with the RPR I have had excellent performance using the Berger 144 with 43.5 grains of Superformance. Velocity is quite similar and sight settings are quite close as well out to 800 Yards.
I wnt ahead and continued using Superformance with the MPA in 6.5 Creedmoor. However with this rifle, I dropped down to 130 grain bullets and correspondingly dropped the load level to a very similar (44.5 grains, suing a BR4 primer). Velocities are acceptable and the medium powere loads are both easy on the barrel and easy on the shooter. Accuracy is good to 1100 yards.
Unlike Nambihunter, I shoot fast because that’s they way the guns have to shoot. letting the barrel cool is good advice So I watch barrel temps closely. On a good hot summer, unless shooting a match, if the barrel is hot, I let it cool before moving on to the next practice stage.
I have tried H4350 (and in the earlier days just about everything I could find that was recommended for the 6.5.). My personal experience is that the only real way to get H4350 to perform with the accuracy I expect, in my individual rifle (MPA) is in a fairly stiff load. Since, I will never earn an invite to the AG cup, max loads yielding max velocities are just simply not a worry. Superformance does the job.
Accuracy with Superformance in both of my 6.5’s is outstanding.
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Have a funny story about Superformance loads in a 6.5CM: Shooting my shiny new Savage 12 rifle at the local Houston public range (at 200 yards) many years ago, three friendly F-class guys with beautifully crafted rifles arrive, and set up right next door. At that time, my rifle handling skills were ok-ish, but not great, and i was shooting a 1.3” group on paper, in a 6 mph wind from 7 o’clock. During the crease fire, i ask one of them to please shoot my new rifle so i can see what it really can do. He proceeded to shoot a 0.5” five shot group at 200, firing pretty fast. With a puzzled look he picks up the box of 120 grain Hornady SST Superformance ammo, shakes his head, and tells his buddies: “i just shot a 1/4 MOA group with an $800 Savage factory rifle and Hornady factor HUNTING ammo, what the hell?”. One of them had a $10K Accuracy International rifle. They were all shooting hand loads. Made me smile, as their groups were quite a bit bigger. Yes could have been luck, but i don’t think so.
i probably got the best rifle Savage made that week (or month!), and counted myself lucky. What a joy it was to shoot that thing and dig oblong oval holes in paper! Sadly, the 1/4 MOA accuracy went away after 1500 rounds, and the replacement $900 custom barrel did 0.65” on aggregate. Now sitting in the safe, and not being used that much.
I bet you will be happy with your Superformance load. So hard to find powder, we all have to use what we have. Just don’t push to the ragged edge.
Best of luck!!
i probably got the best rifle Savage made that week (or month!), and counted myself lucky. What a joy it was to shoot that thing and dig oblong oval holes in paper! Sadly, the 1/4 MOA accuracy went away after 1500 rounds, and the replacement $900 custom barrel did 0.65” on aggregate. Now sitting in the safe, and not being used that much.
I bet you will be happy with your Superformance load. So hard to find powder, we all have to use what we have. Just don’t push to the ragged edge.
Best of luck!!
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I have been having amazing luck with freshly loaded Lapua, and Peterson brass. Here are some .1 and .05 groups shot, so literally the same hole. I have a bunch of those groups, granted they are all three shot groups. The Tikka Tac A1 is still getting zeroed so the precision is still off, but it's a very accurate gun right now with this load. My question is when I take the same load but use Hornady brass that has been shot, resized, annealed.. so prepped, I am getting groups around 1/2 inch, thus the Hornady brass does not seem to perform like fresh Lapua or Peterson. What is the consensus for Hornady 6.5 brass? It's either that, or my brass prepping is off. Not sure what the deal is. I do have a buddy who know's a lot about this stuff, he suspects the Hornady brass.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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Just FYI, Superformance is a ball powder, not a flake powder. It is flattened, but still ball powder, and meters really well as one should expect from ball powders.
100% agree on the summer/winter loads though. I found some fairly large changes as temp changed.
Personally I quit using Superformance in favor of RL16 instead for my Creed. Wish I could find RL26 but haven't seen any since the beginning of Covid.
I've just started working with better brass in my reloading education, so take it for what it's worth. But I would try increasing powder charge a little in the Hornady brass. Lapua and Peterson are thicker, have less case capacity and therefore are shooting faster with the same load. I'll be interested to see if others think the same. The premium brass is also going to be more consistent, so you have to overcome that too.
What is your COAL?
I don't usually pay attention to Coal, as meplats are usually inconsistent.
I'm going 0.07 off the lands, and measuring Ojive.
Oj 2.284
Coal 2.838
139 scenars
36.8 gr varget
Large fed primer
Peterson or lapua
