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6gt

Need's ya'll .02 on this matter.

I just got my MPA Matrix Pro 6GT on Friday did some loading at found out it liked this load of Varget with 109's the best. I'm not an expert shot by any means the one small group was a shear fluke lol I average the other two maybe a little smaller with my other rifles. My Velocity was from inconsistent across a few strings and my SD's were like 15 for each string. But these are my groups I shot 5 at 200yards (Max range) and they all stacked into a nice SUB-MOA group without any issues. I'm not a pro PRS Guy just regional matches. I'm thinking it might be the primers maybe? I was going to load same load with my CCI BR-4 and Federal AR Match that I have to see if that helps. My Labrador though was kicking mud butt still working on getting used to using it would not pickup a lot of the shots was only getting like data on 2 or 3 of the 5 if that so I think it was moving because of my muzzle brake or rocking on the bench. All shots were at 100yards with bipod and rear bag today its 54f little wind, but misty.

I measure the OAL of the bullets today they are from 1.270 to 1.289 big difference from Bergers
Load:
Varget 34.0 (Auto Trickler v4)
Berger 109 (Meplat Trimmed)
COAL: 2.605
Lands: 2.620
Jump: .15
Alpha OCD Virgin Brass ( resized it before loading)
Remt 7 1/2 BR Primer
Lab Radar
1701634104715.png
 

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The only difference I ever notice with primers is, assuming one seats them fully and hasn't bumped their shoulders too much, some go "bang" more than others... I get the same accuracy/performance whether I use CCI450s or Winchester #41s (FWIW I have found the Win41s to be more problematic and less reliable in my gun).

Using Varget and Bergers, I'd be concerned with an SD that wasn't in the single digits or in the low teens over those few shots (even on virgin brass), and I'd bet it's not your primers. (Maybe not enough brass prep, or maybe too much brass prep?)

IMHO, even though that's probably not hot enough to show any signs with Alpha brass, 34gn of Varget behind a 109 at less than 20 thou off sounds like you're running on the edge of pressure (especially this time of year), and things get spikey up there. If it were me, I'd back it off a grain, and see if it settles down a little SD-wise, groups might get more consistent too.

YMMV.
 
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combatgrunt84 said:
Need's ya'll .02 on this matter.

I just got my MPA Matrix Pro 6GT on Friday did some loading at found out it liked this load of Varget with 109's the best. I'm not an expert shot by any means the one small group was a shear fluke lol I average the other two maybe a little smaller with my other rifles. My Velocity was from inconsistent across a few strings and my SD's were like 15 for each string. But these are my groups I shot 5 at 200yards (Max range) and they all stacked into a nice SUB-MOA group without any issues. I'm not a pro PRS Guy just regional matches. I'm thinking it might be the primers maybe? I was going to load same load with my CCI BR-4 and Federal AR Match that I have to see if that helps. My Labrador though was kicking mud butt still working on getting used to using it would not pickup a lot of the shots was only getting like data on 2 or 3 of the 5 if that so I think it was moving because of my muzzle brake or rocking on the bench. All shots were at 100yards with bipod and rear bag today its 54f little wind, but misty.

I measure the OAL of the bullets today they are from 1.270 to 1.289 big difference from Bergers
Load:
Varget 34.0 (Auto Trickler v4)
Berger 109 (Meplat Trimmed)
COAL: 2.605
Lands: 2.620
Jump: .15
Alpha OCD Virgin Brass ( resized it before loading)
Remt 7 1/2 BR Primer
Lab Radar
View attachment 8287479
Click to expand...

Load 33.0gr of Varget, and seat the 109's around .030 jump. Haven't found a chamber yet in either our, or our customer's rifle's that it doesn't work at least pretty well in. Always with cci450. Usually runs about 2850 in a 26" barrel once the barrel speeds up.

I'm sure there's plenty other recipes, but this is just easy button. Its like the tried and true 6br 30gr varget and Berger 105's.

Also, the Berger 109 is one of, if not the most consistent mass produced bullet available. I'd be surprised if you actually improve anything meplat trimming.


The pic below with three pics is chrono for the first 10 shots out of a freshly chambered barrel and the group is shots 6-10 (first 5 shots were just function test). Barrel is still settling in.

The other pic is 5 build and break shots (5 different positions on barricade) with same load in a proof prefit barrel for Falkor 7even. This was after barrel had about 30rnds. 100yds. Rifle and bag only.

Long story short.....don't complicate 6gt. Neither of these is cherry picked. This .562 group is one of the larger we've seen with this ammo.


IMG_2754.jpeg



IMG_2757.jpeg
 
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Here's a third 6gt from today. It was chambered by another smith a couple years ago for a defiance. Barrel has about 2k rnds.

Today alone was three different rifles, chambered three different places. Same ammo.

The single shot upper right was from the bore sight. Adjusted and shot four more rounds to zero.

Ballistic-X-Export-2023-12-03 11:58:18.666854.jpg
 
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CK1.0 said:
I'm at 1850rds through my first 6GT barrel and it's still shooting great. I've already got another barrel, but I'm going to try and hold off on pulling my first one as long as I can as I'm curious how long it'll make it?
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I seem to have missed what kind of barrel you are using here? Thanks!
 
Malum Prohibitum said:
The only rounds I have shot in this rifle are the Hornady Match factory ammo (which I stopped using after pierced primers broke my trigger
Click to expand...
Wait, what!?! Hadn’t heard of this happening before with that particular factory ammo. What is your barrel and action setup please?
 
Inothingit360 said:
Wait, what!?! Hadn’t heard of this happening before with that particular factory ammo. What is your barrel and action setup please?
Click to expand...
Bartlein barrel, impact 737R action - it has happened to lots and lots of shooters with that ammunition.

It does not happen with 205M or CCI 450 primers, but Hornady does not use those primers.

Impact now makes a small firing pin bolt ($465), and I have seen two reports that it fixed the issue for those two.
 
Malum Prohibitum said:
Bartlein barrel, impact 737R action - it has happened to lots and lots of shooters with that ammunition.

It does not happen with 205M or CCI 450 primers, but Hornady does not use those primers.

Impact now makes a small firing pin bolt ($465), and I have seen two reports that it fixed the issue for those two.
Click to expand...
Got it...I guess I will be rolling the dice as I am currently an "off the shelf" ammo buyer.

I've have had such a great experience with 6.5CM match ammo; my current rifle loves it all, and according to my Labradar thingy it especially loves the Hornady 140gr ELDM factory. But the 6.5CM was going to move to practice rifle and I wanted to add a 6GT for competition (I'll still suck, but maybe i can sit with the cool kids :ROFLMAO: ).

Being a factory ammo buyer, I started to regularly see, and accumulate, the 6GT factory loads (some day I'll dive down the reloading hole after I've paid off all this other crap) Anyhow, my 737R--with the small firing pin bolt (I got lucky on that last part, thanks @Bugholes!!) is already bought and in the mail, so we'll cross fingers. Thanks again for the details.
 
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Just jumping in as I've got a 6gt barrel spun up for my AT-X. I just started breaking it in, and am at 38 rounds down the tube so far. I'm using Eagle Eye ammo with the 105 Hybrid for this process, and then will reload the Alpha brass when I'm done with this box. I'm guilty of using factory ammo to get the first 50 - 100 rounds on a barrel.

So far, I started by shooting 5 groups of either 4-5 rounds between cleaning. Every one had a single flier that opened the group up to around 3/4 MOA. Once or twice, it's probably me sucking, but I got suspicious when it was all 5 groups. I seated another group of 5 down .005 from factory and that next group was in the .4s with no more fliers. I seated another .005 down (.010 total) and it was just over a half minute- again with no fliers. So I went ahead and seated the remaining rounds .005 down from what they came at (I'm now at 1.947 CBTO).

I did try one group at .005 above factory, but it was a consistent pattern that was opening up, so I figure the -.005 is the sweet-enough spot. I disassembled one round and got 33.5gr of a powder that looks a lot like either N150 or Reloader 16. I was thinking I'd see Varget or H4350, but it was definitely not.

I'll get some velocities as I get closer to finishing this stuff. Unfortunately, all I have to start with is 107 SMKs or 108 ELD-Ms.

Right now:
105 hybrid
33.5gr unknown powder
Unknown SRP
Alpha OCD brass
1.947 (new) CBTO.

Rifle is an AT-X with 27" Krieger M24, 1:8, with .237/.243.

And so begins my 6gt journey.

20231214_121614.jpg




Shots 3, 4, 5, and 6 on the barrel.
20231214_121623.jpg



Shots 11 - 15, my first 5 shot group during break-in in. The single uncalled flier became a trend until I played just a smidgen with the seating depth.
20231214_121635.jpg
 
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diggler1833 said:
Just jumping in as I've got a 6gt barrel spun up for my AT-X. I just started breaking it in, and am at 38 rounds down the tube so far. I'm using Eagle Eye ammo with the 105 Hybrid for this process, and then will reload the Alpha brass when I'm done with this box. I'm guilty of using factory ammo to get the first 50 - 100 rounds on a barrel.

So far, I started by shooting 5 groups of either 4-5 rounds between cleaning. Every one had a single flier that opened the group up to around 3/4 MOA. Once or twice, it's probably me sucking, but I got suspicious when it was all 5 groups. I seated another group of 5 down .005 from factory and that next group was in the .4s with no more fliers. I seated another .005 down (.010 total) and it was just over a half minute- again with no fliers. So I went ahead and seated the remaining rounds .005 down from what they came at (I'm now at 1.947 CBTO).

I did try one group at .005 above factory, but it was a consistent pattern that was opening up, so I figure the -.005 is the sweet-enough spot. I disassembled one round and got 33.5gr of a powder that looks a lot like either N150 or Reloader 16. I was thinking I'd see Varget or H4350, but it was definitely not.

I'll get some velocities as I get closer to finishing this stuff. Unfortunately, all I have to start with is 107 SMKs or 108 ELD-Ms.

Right now:
105 hybrid
33.5gr unknown powder
Unknown SRP
Alpha OCD brass
1.947 (new) CBTO.

Rifle is an AT-X with 27" Krieger M24, 1:8, with .237/.243.

And so begins my 6gt journey.

View attachment 8296762



Shots 3, 4, 5, and 6 on the barrel.
View attachment 8296765


Shots 11 - 15, my first 5 shot group during break-in in. The single uncalled flier became a trend until I played just a smidgen with the seating depth.
View attachment 8296769
Click to expand...
Any particular reason you went with a 1:8? I’m a noob on this, and haven’t picked out my 6gt barrel yet but I was reading that 6gt leaned towards a faster rate…?
 
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Inothingit360 said:
Any particular reason you went with a 1:8? I’m a noob on this, and haven’t picked out my 6gt barrel yet but I was reading that 6gt leaned towards a faster rate…?
Click to expand...

Yes, good question. I plan on shooting bullets no heavier (longer) than 108gr. I have a 1:7.25", 26" 6 Creed barrel for the same rifle and didn't want a complete overlap with 110gr +.

I've done the same in my own little 6.5mm realm because I have two 6.5x47s and two 6.5 Creedmoors. My x47s were chambered with a .123 freebore as I just shoot 123 - 130gr bullets out of them. That leaves the 140s for the Creeds.

I don't compete. I'm just a good old boy who likes to shoot out of his shop and wander down onto the pastures to bang on some steel...and then I come on here and ramble excessively.
 
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Those of you shooting the 112 MB - what b.c. value have you trued to? I'm just now getting into truing the b.c. for this bullet in my 1:7 twist and it's looking like .300-.310 (G7); need to test further to confirm though.

My son and I put together a 6GT over the past few months just as a fun gun for plinking steel at distance in the mountains, and I wanted to use the heavies so we picked up a selection of 105-115gr bullets from what was easily available. With a little experimenting I've settled on the 112 MB for now.

I was trying to find the post with the load I settled on but it must be way back in this thread - someone said they'd settled on 36.5gr H4350 with the 112 MB jumping .020". I worked up to this and did load dev for seating depth, powder charge, and primers - ended up back at almost exactly the same load, just 36.3gr seems to be right in the middle of the sweet spot with this barrel, doing 2920 fps. (26" 1:7 Schnieder, heavy MTU profile).

It does seem like an easy one to load for - even the worst groups I found were in the .7-.8 moa range for 5 rounds, with the above load pretty consistently in the .38-.42 moa range across multiple shooting trips and load development rounds in various temps. Most likely it'd shoot better than that in better hands too, that's about my lower limit for consistent accuracy off a bipod and shooting bag.

I've been comparing the 112 MB to the 115 RDF as well, but just don't like that RDF as much. Even the best loads are giving me more vertical dispersion, b.c. seems slightly lower, and it seats quite a bit farther into the case for the same .020" jump; no advantage I can see, although they shoot well enough for banging steel and letting the kid practice I guess, if it comes down to that. I haven't been real excited about the 106 Amax in this one either; accuracy just wasn't as good even with some sorting - still well under 1 moa but not what I'd look for in a precision long range gun. Haven't tried the 110 Amax yet though, and of course all those 106 Amax bullets from PV were seconds, so no big surprise there.
 
@Yondering I'm running the 112s 10k jump in my rifle, 309g7 was money to 880y perfect waterline at 2910-2920fps with 36.3gr H4350 from a 24" barrel. They shot equally as well at 100y at 36.6gr running 2950, but accuracy wasn't nearly as consistent on my targets at 660y and 880y.
 
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4O6shootist said:
@Yondering I'm running the 112s 10k jump in my rifle, 309g7 was money to 880y perfect waterline at 2910-2920fps with 36.3gr H4350 from a 24" barrel. They shot equally as well at 100y at 36.6gr running 2950, but accuracy wasn't nearly as consistent on my targets at 660y and 880y.
Click to expand...

Ha! Crazy how similar our results are. And I was shooting 883 yards just this evening with that load too. I ended up at 6.1 mils for DA of 0 ft and 7° down angle to the target. Also shot at 538 yd for a better confirmation of velocity (9° down angle, 2.6 mils to waterline); the chrono said 2931 fps avg (SD of 6 - for my purposes I'll take it) on a warmer day but drops lined up a little better in the calculator tonight for 2920 fps. Need to confirm that some more but hits were pretty easy and consistent at both distances.

Thanks for the confirmation!
 
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Yondering said:
Ha! Crazy how similar our results are. And I was shooting 883 yards just this evening with that load too. I ended up at 6.1 mils for DA of 0 ft and 7° down angle to the target. Also shot at 538 yd for a better confirmation of velocity (9° down angle, 2.6 mils to waterline); the chrono said 2931 fps avg (SD of 6 - for my purposes I'll take it) on a warmer day but drops lined up a little better in the calculator tonight for 2920 fps. Need to confirm that some more but hits were pretty easy and consistent at both distances.

Thanks for the confirmation!
Click to expand...
6gt is money with 105-112 gr bullets at 2950 with lighter bullets down to 2910 with the heavies. They all just shoot here. The low node is down around 2800-2830.
 
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ghostrider_OneOne said:
Reloder16 37.3 with 112MB's cci450 get me right at 2910fps with SD's below 5 here's a link below to my previous posts and this same thread:

www.snipershide.com

6gt

I have 5lbs of IMR 4166 sitting here n a box so now I know wha I can try once my 6GT gets finished
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
Click to expand...

Wow. I’m getting 2920 with 1 full grain less than that; 36.3gr H4350, 112 MB, BR4.

What barrel length, is it short? I’m shooting a 26”.

Edit - sorry, big mistake; I was thinking H4350 while reading and typing RL16. Disregard please.
 
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ghostrider_OneOne said:
you should also check for a carbon ring, I love RL16 but have experienced significant carbon ring issues. If you have a bore scope you should check it!
Click to expand...

Nah, it started that way with a brand new chamber that I cut myself, and hasn’t changed much.

But I’m some kind of idgit this morning, sorry. My load is for H4350; using RL 16 for the Creed not the GT, and was thinking one while typing the other.

Carry on…
 
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ghostrider_OneOne said:
you should also check for a carbon ring, I love RL16 but have experienced significant carbon ring issues. If you have a bore scope you should check it!
Click to expand...
Switch to H4350 and you will never have to worry about it. Cheaper, more available, temp stable, meters well and none of the carbon ring issues like with RL and Varget. Its also versatile from 6GT to 300WSM and in between. Its the only powder I run for 6GT and 6.5CM and it shoots ridiculously well. Sub 4 SD's in every load I make.

You still need to clean but no where near as much. About every 300 rounds. Clean bore and let a mop sit in freebore for 20 minutes soaked with Eliminator. Never even the slightest buildup of carbon ring.
 
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combatgrunt84 said:
Anyone using N140 and 109's I see they have N150 listed just curios anyone has anything real world.
Click to expand...
There is a shop in PA north of Philly that has h4350 for like 307 a jug. That would be the move to buy in bulk. If I wasnt sitting on like 80 lbs of it I would head up there to buy more.
 
Yeah Shyda's here is the same way I made a trip I'm stocked on Varget and H4350 but was wondering about the N140 or N150 seems not to be as hard to find.
 
WyomingShooter said:
I've been using mostly Varget. What powder charge works best for you with the 112 MB?
Click to expand...

I got 2900fps with 34gn of Shooters World Precision Rifle. (Lovex version of Varget, just a little slower). I was probably knocking on the door of pressure...

I've been running a slower/softer 33gn of Shooters World Precision Rifle for 2804 @ 801degF using a 112MB (it performs just like a Dasher).

I've become a believer that there's something magical about powders in the Varget and/or Varger-like burn range.. they just make it so easy to get anything to shoot and get low SDs. I don't care or worry about carbon-ring issues since a borescope has become a must-have for me when cleaning a barrel.

I have a bunch of SWPR to use up, but next, I'm going to probably try the Vhit stuff, N140 and N150 are supposed to be great in Dasher and I've decided to treat my GT just like a Dasher and run middle-of-the-road speeds.
 
I was discussing powders not too long ago with a guy who sells all kinds of powder. He mainly used VV and brought up an interesting point: Go back a few years when most powders were $30/lb, VV was kind of a boutique powder. But now that most domestic powders are in the $50/lb range, VV is not so gucci anymore. FWIW, I’ve been using N320 in pistol rounds for a long time…

That said, I’ve been using H4350 for my 6GT and 6.5CM for a while. Temp stable, available, not hard to work up a load, and I haven’t felt the need to change (I’d prob feel differently if I couldn’t find any). I did get a carbon ring in my 6GT after 1K rnds or so but cleaned it good, scoped the barrel to confirm, and since then I’ve paid more attention when cleaning.
 
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Anyone have any data on VV N150 and 112 MBs? My Google-fu and search-fu have not yielded any results thus far.
 
Powder Valley is significantly cheaper on the Varget and massively cheaper on the Precision Rifle.


Larry Pootterfield can eat a bag a' dicks today.


PV for the win.



Never realized the Gay Tiger was gonna hurt this much.........








Image 9.jpeg
 
DubfromGA said:
Powder Valley is significantly cheaper on the Varget and massively cheaper on the Precision Rifle.


Larry Pootterfield can eat a bag a' dicks today.


PV for the win.



Never realized the Gay Tiger was gonna hurt this much.........








View attachment 8337561
Click to expand...
Yeah it's fucked
Everything goes from $30/lb to $50 or $60, we're the reason why these fuckers get away with it
 
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762 ULTRAMAGA said:
eah it's fucked
Everything goes from $30/lb to $50 or $60, we're the reason why these fuckers get away with it
Click to expand...



I can't help it.....shooting is my main hobby.

Ankle reconstruction & spine surgery took golf away.
Pending replacements on both knees & right shoulder have limited hunting.

Gave up drinking 5 years ago. Quit smoking 20+ years ago. I'm fukkin quitting cussin tomorrow..or next week.
Truck is paid off....got the title last month.

Still working 14 hour shifts like a beast.....pushing hard.

Guns, coffee, 4 more years of mortgage, wife's BMW payment and decent eats are where my money goes.....after taxes and retirement savings are handled.


FJB and the horse that Giggles Harris is sucking off.


I'm ready for some mean ass tweets, cheaper gas, $40 primers & $200 powder.


FJB & Gigglala.
Bastards.
 
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4O6shootist said:
Midway has been sky high since mid 2021 with supplies first got scarce. They just added the new powder up charges(publicly announced by Hogdgon and others) to their already too high prices. Larry is a crook! Most us known that for a good while now.
Click to expand...

He seems to have been mighty smitten with WLP over the years.

That is enough to make me dislike him….but this powder gouging is nuts.
 
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