- Thread starter Aimsmall55
- Start date
Quick math...
Let's say you get a cheap 50 gram weight, it is off by 0.01 grams instead of 0.0001 grams. You've now got an error of 0.01/50 or .02%. Within your charge weight window of 40-50 grains that's going to be an error of about 0.01 grains, or half a kernel of varget. You have to get up to around 60 grain charge weight at which point the scale might round up to the next kernel and read 0.02 grains higher than "accurate".
From the factory mine was off by 0.03 grams at 50g weight. That led to charges at 45gr being off by about a kernel and charges at 60gr being off by two kernels, from my prior reference standard.
In isolation I would say it doesn't matter at all what calibration weight you use. Your charges will be repeatable and consistent and loads that you develop with the scale can be replicated as long as you keep using the same weight.
If you have prior data you need to match, then it's both about how accurate your prior scale's calibration was and whether the new calibration weight matches. It's not an issue with absolute accuracy, just comparative accuracy so that old load data is exactly the same. Odds are that a cheap weight aligns will track with your prior scale, but that depends on a bit on both the accuracy of your new weight and the calibration of the old scale.
If you have OCD, then a nice calibration weight is a nice thing to have.
And if you change lots of powder, then all your old load data is junk anyway and none of this matters.
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Thats what I was figuring.
In that case Ill get the Class 6 weight to bring my amazon order up to the 25 bucks for prime shipping which is why Im even bothering to look at it, cart filler.
Im throwing/trickling to +/- .02 gr as is so that kernal isnt going to handicap me too much more than Im already doing to myself.
Thanks!
In that case Ill get the Class 6 weight to bring my amazon order up to the 25 bucks for prime shipping which is why Im even bothering to look at it, cart filler.
Im throwing/trickling to +/- .02 gr as is so that kernal isnt going to handicap me too much more than Im already doing to myself.
Thanks!
What is that metal straw youre using their??
interesting
Yeah some type of bend is critical. I made a half ass cup out of a piece of scrap that works good. The tube seems to let me get a more consistent initial throw because all the kernels flow out and don’t get hung up in the bend like the straw. Not a big deal though. It all works. Love this machine.
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Ordering one this week what else besides the base for the trickler do I need?
Got mine ordered!
Guys, any probs dropping the larger kernel powders when using the auto throw and/or trickler combination such as H1000, Retumbo, N570?
if you want speed yes it is 100% worth it
With as much as we are paying for this is not that much more painful to spring for it. It is nice to just set the powder pan down and let it just go to work on its own.
In for the whole setup from Cambridge.
Any thoughts on either of these for a check weight?
https://www.amazon.com/Troemner-Economical-Indrical-Traceable-Certificate/dp/B00T2KBW9W/ref=sr_1_13?s=industrial&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1521032836&sr=1-13&keywords=troemner+weights&refinements=p_76:1249158011
https://www.amazon.com/Troemner-Eco...=troemner+weights&refinements=p_76:1249158011
Any thoughts on either of these for a check weight?
https://www.amazon.com/Troemner-Economical-Indrical-Traceable-Certificate/dp/B00T2KBW9W/ref=sr_1_13?s=industrial&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1521032836&sr=1-13&keywords=troemner+weights&refinements=p_76:1249158011
https://www.amazon.com/Troemner-Eco...=troemner+weights&refinements=p_76:1249158011
Call me crazy but I am not to worried about a check weight. From time to time I do check my scale against my RCBS balance but I'm not really worried about my charge weighing 44 grains even or 44.04. I just want it to weigh the same every time.
Agreed on that point, except I'd like to be able to determine the weight difference between the Chargemaster I've been using and the newly arrived scale, should there be one, in order to see if I need to be dropping different charges with the AD scale going forward.
I'd rather not do a run on the AD of every load I developed on the CM to ensure the accuracy and velocity are up to snuff with the same charge weight from the AD, only to learn via trial/error and spent components and time that the CM was actually half a grain off compared to the AD.
Not sure I phrased that right, but I think I'm just sorta parroting what Sheldon N said earlier in the thread.
I'd rather not do a run on the AD of every load I developed on the CM to ensure the accuracy and velocity are up to snuff with the same charge weight from the AD, only to learn via trial/error and spent components and time that the CM was actually half a grain off compared to the AD.
Not sure I phrased that right, but I think I'm just sorta parroting what Sheldon N said earlier in the thread.
Try weighing the same charge on both scales and see if there is a difference.
I would look for a class 1 or 2 weight on ebay. I bought a new Adams class 2 weight which was $50 but you can get a used class 1 on ebay for the same price as members have posted here. I didn't think of ebay or I would've gone the same route. If you do some research on the different classifications and how much the weight of the check weights can vary, its quite a bit on a class 7. The research I did suggested that a class 2 was all that was needed but if you can get a used class 1 for the same price that's the way I would go. In my research as well I found that touching the check weight with our bare hands actually adds to the weight of the check weight. I use a pair of plastic tweezers to pick up the weight.
No shit, right? If your old method says you're throwing 44.000 grains and you take that and dump it into the tray on the new system and it reads the same then you're comparing apples to apples; there’s effectively no difference. If you need that extra bit of feel-good then throw 10 charges together and weigh the lot for another decimal of assurance.
A lot of you guys are over-thinking this. When a kernel's .02gr you do not need to calibrate the scale to .0000001 grain with some $700 platinum laboratory-grade mass.
I got my Rice Lake 50g check weight the other day and check my scale. Was showing 50.04 so it was 2 kernels over. Calibrated it with the new weight and it reads dead on 50.0g every time now.
Certainly don't think I need to read that many zeroes to the right, but calibrating both scales with a known quantity is necessary from the outset and I'm not sure how much I trust the check/calibration weights which came with the CM to use on the AD.
And I'm sure that you, TofP, have a dedicated 110v x 60Hz electrical mains conditioner to supply electricity to the scale, you have it set up on a dedicated, incredibly stable, level, flat surface, in a climate-controlled room with no air currents, and you load with a grounding strap attached to your wrist to eliminate static electricity. You store your powder in that same climate controlled room so that the weight/density of the powder doesn't change with the relative humidity etc. etc.
What's "necessary" can get you chasing your tail. What matters is the end result: Does it shoot? I daresay that all this equipment is more consistent sans whoopdeedoo calibration than 99% of the shooters at range where ±1 kernel of power might actually come into play. Might as well subscribe to all the Voodoo the Benchrest guys practice. There are more variables than that last kernel of powder.
And how did it compare to what you thought was 44.000gr from your previous weighing equipment? Now that you know you're "two kernels over" have you put it over a chronograph to see what 2 kernals net? Have you re-done all your temperature-dependent velocity tables to account for the the 5fps difference shooting in early morning versus late afternoon?
Just sayin', guys. We're getting pretty far down in the weeds here.
What's "necessary" can get you chasing your tail. What matters is the end result: Does it shoot? I daresay that all this equipment is more consistent sans whoopdeedoo calibration than 99% of the shooters at range where ±1 kernel of power might actually come into play. Might as well subscribe to all the Voodoo the Benchrest guys practice. There are more variables than that last kernel of powder.
And how did it compare to what you thought was 44.000gr from your previous weighing equipment? Now that you know you're "two kernels over" have you put it over a chronograph to see what 2 kernals net? Have you re-done all your temperature-dependent velocity tables to account for the the 5fps difference shooting in early morning versus late afternoon?
Just sayin', guys. We're getting pretty far down in the weeds here.
Doing some of the above, but not all.
And certainly not looking for the absolute minimum in weight dispersion as you are right in that it becomes a point of diminishing returns, but having a $15 calibration weight to ensure the scale is weighing true seems like a sound investment when comparing all the time, effort, and money put into the rest of the ELR game.
This particular scale and dispenser/trickler combo is also not built just for accuracy, but speed....and that increase in rounds produced per hour costs.
And certainly not looking for the absolute minimum in weight dispersion as you are right in that it becomes a point of diminishing returns, but having a $15 calibration weight to ensure the scale is weighing true seems like a sound investment when comparing all the time, effort, and money put into the rest of the ELR game.
This particular scale and dispenser/trickler combo is also not built just for accuracy, but speed....and that increase in rounds produced per hour costs.
How long did it take to get a shipping notification from CE? I placed an order 6 days ago and other than the initial email I haven't heard shit
It took me a couple weeks. I ordered the entire kit.
I did too.
I wasn't able to find a nice used one for a good price (calibration weight). but i went ahead and got the 100gram class 1 weight. I think factory setting is 100grams. Not sure what DWS used to calibrate. sent them an email and waiting for a reply.
TROEMNER 100 Gram CLASS 1 CALIBRATION WEIGHT - NEW IN ORIGINAL BOX
TROEMNER 100 Gram CLASS 1 CALIBRATION WEIGHT - NEW IN ORIGINAL BOX
Any issues or concerns running the 300 with charges being a lower % capacity as compared to the 120??? With all the orders on rebate can’t find a 120 setup in stock but see a 300 I can order. If I’m not mistaken the resolution is the same so maybe I’m overthinking it.
Has anyone got their rebate yet? Just got an email from A&D, stating that rebate is 30% off list price of $1065. So they won't honor it. That said I replied telling them no where on their rebate form does it say "list price". This is false advertisement. Not happy.
Will be cancelling my order on the scale, auto-thrower, and auto-trickler if they play that game. Realized I was only going to get 30% off the scale, not the whole setup, but that seems like a shady rebate program, especially since they've been on here promoting it.
There is another thread, CE contacted them and they are getting shit sorted out and assured us the rebate would be honored.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/a-d-fx-120i-for-375-shipped.6876181/
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/a-d-fx-120i-for-375-shipped.6876181/
Wicked shady, Wtf... like you guys said above they were on here promoting it!! You would have think they called the company and verified discount. I can't imagine how many people this is really going to piss off if it holds true.
Where can I get one for $500!! They are all out of stock. Any backorders available?
I purchased mine through DWS (Data Weighing Systems) not sure if it's still in stock there, but you can check.
Also got a reply from DWS. Sales Rep says, A&D will honor the rebate. Kudos to DWS. I hope A&D will actually honor their rebate too.
Just got an email from A&D with regards to my submitted rebate form and CE electronic receipt email for the scale, thrower, and trickler and A&D is asking for an itemized receipt so they can process the rebate.
Forwarded to CE to get one showing the cost of the scale separate from the thrower and trickler, but if they can’t get one to me by 31 March I guess I’ll cancel and try again in the future.
Seems like the rebate idea got made without much effort put into the process of how it would be executed and honored....
Forwarded to CE to get one showing the cost of the scale separate from the thrower and trickler, but if they can’t get one to me by 31 March I guess I’ll cancel and try again in the future.
Seems like the rebate idea got made without much effort put into the process of how it would be executed and honored....
I emailed CE to separate the scale from the Auto trickler bundle, after I waited over a day,I ended up having to call and they then emailed me a new receipt
Thanks for the heads up
I cannot get CE to reply to my emails, I guess I will have to call tomorrow morning. I've sent two separate emails, one last week, and one two days ago and neither have been answered. These guys are riding the #strugglebus when it comes to e-commerce customer service.
I called them today and they’ve posted on one of the FB pages today as well. I talked to them directly though. They were able to get me the proper invoice I needed for the rebate and they informed me the rebate was still going and there was just a misinformed employee at A&D that was sending out emails with info that was incorrect.
Same resolution and precision as the 120, but nearly 3 times the capacity.
No downside other than the higher price.
It's nuts that they're all out of stock, I guess the rebate has increased demand.
There's some shenanigans with the rebate too (to add to the incipient hysteria). A&D waffling on rebate (and then not?).
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/fx-120i-price-increase-fyi.3930869/page-8#post-37184826
Could be interesting on what the 6-8 week result will be... haha.
- Sep 1, 2017
- 26
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A&D is Honoring the rebate, AND 's marketing manager that was not on the same page as the rest of the company when it came to the rebate
We send out Itemized invoices once we send out the orders
I am sorry for the delay in responses we are going through the orders as fast as we can
Thank you for your business
We send out Itemized invoices once we send out the orders
I am sorry for the delay in responses we are going through the orders as fast as we can
Thank you for your business
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