Accuracy Int'l Coopermatch

Forgetful Coyote

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Forgetful Coyote

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jbell

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Oh yeah, I am very familiar with them. I have wanted one for a very long time. I’ll definitely be tracking this rifle.
 

Forgetful Coyote

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Oh yeah, I am very familiar with them. I have wanted one for a very long time. I’ll definitely be tracking this rifle.
Do you know if the mags are single or double stack? And are the 6 BR mags specifically made for 6 BR or are they the same as their other mags and modified to run 6 BR? I cant imagine Bleiker would put out anything that didnt feed smooth as butter either way. Make sure to post up here when you buy it ?
 

lowlight

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The AI is a collector's item for sure, but overpriced if you asked me,

That is an AE MK 1 action, so that rifle was super cheap comparatively back in the day.

if they put an AW into that stock, you might have an argument for $9, that rifle is probably worth $5k
 
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Forgetful Coyote

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The AI is a collector's item for sure, but overpriced if you asked me,

That is an AE MK 1 action, so that rifle was super cheap comparatively back in the day.

if they put an AW into that stock, you might have an argument for $9, that rifle is probably worth $5k
What was the difference in AW vs AE actions?
 

lowlight

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Everything really

Round vs Square action design
2 position safety vs 3
Removable recoil lug
different barrel threads (though an AW will fit and AE, and AE will not fit and AW)
it used a 5 round single stack mag
Action is not bonded to the chassis,

The AI AE was the accuracy enforcement, the cheaper cop gun. My first AI from them was an AE Mk1 with an S&B on it, fixed 10x and they sold it to me as a demo gun for $2800 over 15 years ago. With the scope, I still have it.
 

buffalowinter

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I had lunch and hung out with Malcolm Cooper and hs wife Sarah at the 1981 Internationale Matchwoche in Zurich in which we were all competing. I do have something even rarer, that I would part with at a third of that price (3K). I got this at auction out of the NRA Museum.
1585700301271.png 1585700338990.png 1585700369733.png 1585700881046.png

This is a Lynx Model 94, a handcrafted, precision rifle manufactured by Pirkan ASE, based in Finland. Pirkan ASE has been developing high-quality sporting and competition rifles since 1979. The Lynx 94 was designed by Torsti Laaksonen, a Finnish master gunsmith, and is a patented straight-pull bolt-action rifle. This example is chambered in 6mm-250 (6mm International), and features a 28-inch barrel, a lightweight target stock with adjustable comb, and comes with 4 magazines. This rifle wears a couple of MT Guns components, apparently modifications were made by Mac Tilton himself.

As you might imagine the Lynx 94 is not a cheap rifle! Currently Pirkan ASE make only 150-untis per year, which is now being increased to 300 as they are moving to bigger premises. The Light Hunter (on test) will set you back £4200, the standard Hunter and Target are less at £3950, making them about a grand more expensive than a comparable Blaser R8 Professional. Thats 5k in US dollars. I'm offering it at a steal before it goes to Julia auctions or another hi-end auction house.
 

Forgetful Coyote

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I had lunch and hung out with Malcolm Cooper and hs wife Sarah at the 1981 Internationale Matchwoche in Zurich in which we were all competing. I do have something even rarer, that I would part with at a third of that price (3K). I got this at auction out of the NRA Museum.
View attachment 7287096 View attachment 7287097 View attachment 7287099 View attachment 7287101

This is a Lynx Model 94, a handcrafted, precision rifle manufactured by Pirkan ASE, based in Finland. Pirkan ASE has been developing high-quality sporting and competition rifles since 1979. The Lynx 94 was designed by Torsti Laaksonen, a Finnish master gunsmith, and is a patented straight-pull bolt-action rifle. This example is chambered in 6mm-250 (6mm International), and features a 28-inch barrel, a lightweight target stock with adjustable comb, and comes with 4 magazines. This rifle wears a couple of MT Guns components, apparently modifications were made by Mac Tilton himself.

As you might imagine the Lynx 94 is not a cheap rifle! Currently Pirkan ASE make only 150-untis per year, which is now being increased to 300 as they are moving to bigger premises. The Light Hunter (on test) will set you back £4200, the standard Hunter and Target are less at £3950, making them about a grand more expensive than a comparable Blaser R8 Professional. Thats 5k in US dollars. I'm offering it at a steal before it goes to Julia auctions or another hi-end auction house.
Very cool. Didnt Mr Tilton retire and hand his business over to someone else?
 

jbell

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Do you know if the mags are single or double stack? And are the 6 BR mags specifically made for 6 BR or are they the same as their other mags and modified to run 6 BR? I cant imagine Bleiker would put out anything that didnt feed smooth as butter either way. Make sure to post up here when you buy it ?
i don’t know specifically, there are not that many around. I am more familiar with their 22lr rifles, they are truly some of the very best made.
 

jbell

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The AI is a collector's item for sure, but overpriced if you asked me,

That is an AE MK 1 action, so that rifle was super cheap comparatively back in the day.

if they put an AW into that stock, you might have an argument for $9, that rifle is probably worth $5k
Im certainly not as well versed in Accuracy International as you are Frank, but that isn’t an AE action, it’s an AT (target action). It is not round, doesn’t have a sandwich recoil lug, it is a 6 lug bolt, and is a single shot. It does have the old style bolt shroud & safety lever like the AE, but that’s about it. I can’t comment on the price as there really are not any real comparables that have recently sold, definitely something an AI collector would want.
 
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Forgetful Coyote

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i don’t know specifically, there are not that many around. I am more familiar with their 22lr rifles, they are truly some of the very best made.
No doubt. Walther as well with the KK500, I wish Walther would make some centerfire rifles...
 

sirhrmechanic

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No doubt. Walther as well with the KK500, I wish Walther would make some centerfire rifles...
Check out the KKJ in .22 hornet. A lovely little tack driver. Not snipery at all. In fact, almost a boys rifle, it is so compact.

But a lovely little varmint killer.

Of course they also made a heck of a sniper rifle for the Germans... can’t remember the designation. But was seen i the opening of James Bond film The Living Daylights.

I understand that there are two of them in the country. (Though that may be B.S.). Supposedly, one belongs to the former President is S&W and the other I have seen in Roy Jinks safe. Though he has sold off a huge amount of his collection, maybe including his Walter.

Cheers, Sirh
 

sirhrmechanic

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Well, dont forget this monstrosity, the Walther WA2000. Of course if you bought one, you could sell it now and have a nice little retirement nest egg.
View attachment 7287241
That’s the one I am thinking of:

A0CEA251-0EED-4B72-9BC0-AB53E3D030AE.jpeg

I read a couple of days ago that the original from the movie was just stolen in London... a huge collection of actual Bond Movie guns was stolen from a collector. if a WA2000 shows up in the PX... be suspicious!

Cheers, Sirhr

PS: a Gen 2 WA2000 currently is valued at about $75,000. Nest egg indeed!
 
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buffalowinter

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1585757120825.png

Love the old laser sights...something else I collect. I have one on my MP5SD .22


1585757373435.png

And I have an Imatronic LS45 Laser sight sight as shown here from the movie Nighhawks with Kurt Russell and Sly Stallone

1585757754186.png
 
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sirhrmechanic

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beenjammin

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That’s the one I am thinking of:

View attachment 7287250

I read a couple of days ago that the original from the movie was just stolen in London... a huge collection of actual Bond Movie guns was stolen from a collector. if a WA2000 shows up in the PX... be suspicious!

Cheers, Sirhr

PS: a Gen 2 WA2000 currently is valued at about $75,000. Nest egg indeed!
And I remember a time I could have purchased one for 30K... thinking that was crazy... Guess not.
 

sirhrmechanic

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Yall seem to like those WA2000's... check out this Cold War face-off: .308 Dragunov vs .300 WM WA2000
Good gawd... you can keep .300 WM out-of-box post-64 Winchester 70 made during the 1970's when they were assembling rifles using horseshoe rasps and old beer-can parts... inside 1.5 at 100... At that range a 300 WM a laser pointer.

Ok... their ammo is probably from Belize. They are shooting from dirt. And they are... marksmen? Or Reality TV guys?

I want my 30 minutes back.

Sirhr

(P.S. I did a lot of fast-forwarding... )

PPS. I love forgotten weapons. This, on the other hand... see PS above.
 

Forgetful Coyote

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Good gawd... you can keep .300 WM out-of-box post-64 Winchester 70 made during the 1970's when they were assembling rifles using horseshoe rasps and old beer-can parts... inside 1.5 at 100... At that range a 300 WM a laser pointer.

Ok... their ammo is probably from Belize. They are shooting from dirt. And they are... marksmen? Or Reality TV guys?

I want my 30 minutes back.

Sirhr

(P.S. I did a lot of fast-forwarding... )

PPS. I love forgotten weapons. This, on the other hand... see PS above.
Neither of em really are precision shooters. And I disagree with a couple things that they like to say eg: "bolt actions are obsolete" - well yea duh they're obsolete as a primary combat weapon but when it comes to precision shooting and snipers, every first world military on the planet uses a bolt action as their main sniper rifle.
Karl is a fairly good shooter tho, he shot NRA High Power for quite a while. From what I could tell tho, the WA2000 test target was a ~1" 3-shot group.. I don't think the WA2000 is as accurate as its price would imply... JMO
 
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sandwarrior

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Good gawd... you can keep .300 WM out-of-box post-64 Winchester 70 made during the 1970's when they were assembling rifles using horseshoe rasps and old beer-can parts... inside 1.5 at 100... At that range a 300 WM a laser pointer.

Ok... their ammo is probably from Belize. They are shooting from dirt. And they are... marksmen? Or Reality TV guys?

I want my 30 minutes back.

Sirhr

(P.S. I did a lot of fast-forwarding... )

PPS. I love forgotten weapons. This, on the other hand... see PS above.
I have to laugh, I know that thing is better than what groups they got. But, through the whole video, they talk about how really good it is in comparison to the Dragonov. The fair thing to point out too is both rifles were configured as how they were in the '80's. The Dragonov has a lot more improvements that they did not use that day.

Added: It would be interesting to use any variant of the M40/24 to see how they would compare. And, do it with a shooter who is competent with the rifles.
 

Forgetful Coyote

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I have to laugh, I know that thing is better than what groups they got. But, through the whole video, they talk about how really good it is in comparison to the Dragonov. The fair thing to point out too is both rifles were configured as how they were in the '80's. The Dragonov has a lot more improvements that they did not use that day.

Added: It would be interesting to use any variant of the M40/24 to see how they would compare. And, do it with a shooter who is competent with the rifles.
No doubt. To be fair also we’re talking bout a unbraked semi auto .300 WM... as we all know a .308 AR will expose every flaw you got, I imagine this is doubly so with the WA.
Plus as I said. These guys ain’t precision shooters. Their idea of a good AR barrel is a Faxon pencil contour. Which certainly will work fine for the 2 gun matches they compete in frequently, but well it wouldn’t be anywhere near my top choice for a AR build
 

FatBoy

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Not sure what makes that coopermatch worth 9k except that you can't get one. Some of the Palmamasters were 5 round repeaters. VERY few of those.

I've have burned out three 6.5x284s barrels though mine, all Borders. It wears a Border 6.5x47 now which shoots great but the whorishly large firing pin and hole crater primers badly so I rarely shoot it as I don't want to pierce and have to have a pin or head made. If I could post the pics I just took I would but Comcast is bogged down by my neighbors flapping to pornhub.

Oh, looks like be finished....

That's a custom Ti 20moa rail I had made because the one piece doesn't get the proper eye relief in the prone or repeat. I also has the 4 way buttplate made as the rubber one just goes up and down. A nice piece for what it is. Its reliable and solid but light with the pine laminate stock. The bolt head is replaceable but I don't have the magnum bolt head.

Best part of the pic is ome of 20200401_210014.jpgmy sweet mini-Aussie wondering why I'm fucking with her rest...

20200401_205929.jpg

20200401_205955.jpg20200401_205958.jpg

20200401_210022.jpg
 

FatBoy

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This was the first rifle I owned with a bayonet style shroud. Kind of common now but probably not so much in 1996, which is when I think this was made. You can pull the bolt and break it down in seconds if you pierce a primer. Bolt body is huge. I should have just left it a large primer caliber, I'd still shoot it. As it is, this barrel only has one match through it and it'll probably get pulled and trashed as it won't have enough meat left to re-thread and rechamber. Goddamn metric threads....

Powell River Laboratories brought a handful of these in through Scott Sigmund in Oak Ridge. This is one of them, and has PRL stamped into the barrel channel. I'm under the impression less than a dozen made it into the states, but could be wrong. I only know of one repeater and if Charlie still has it and I could find his contact info I'd but it if he was selling. His also had a walnut, non-laminate stock. The rarest of the rare. I had a chance to buy that the day I bought mine but I wanted the solid bottom and mine came with a full set of RPA iron sights and two barrels.
 

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Very cool. Didnt Mr Tilton retire and hand his business over to someone else?
Mac passed a couple years ago. John Whidden took on Barnard from Mac. I connected Barnard with Mac back in 95/96.
First Barnard to the states was by me in 95.
I have no idea whatever became of Mac's extensive collection of some really unique and interesting small bore rifles and such.
 
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jbell

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This was the first rifle I owned with a bayonet style shroud. Kind of common now but probably not so much in 1996, which is when I think this was made. You can pull the bolt and break it down in seconds if you pierce a primer. Bolt body is huge. I should have just left it a large primer caliber, I'd still shoot it. As it is, this barrel only has one match through it and it'll probably get pulled and trashed as it won't have enough meat left to re-thread and rechamber. Goddamn metric threads....

Powell River Laboratories brought a handful of these in through Scott Sigmund in Oak Ridge. This is one of them, and has PRL stamped into the barrel channel. I'm under the impression less than a dozen made it into the states, but could be wrong. I only know of one repeater and if Charlie still has it and I could find his contact info I'd but it if he was selling. His also had a walnut, non-laminate stock. The rarest of the rare. I had a chance to buy that the day I bought mine but I wanted the solid bottom and mine came with a full set of RPA iron sights and two barrels.

That's super cool!
 

sandwarrior

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Fatboy,

That's awesome. Of course, capturing the dog giving you the "stinkeye" for wondering when she's gonna have to get down is awesome too! ;) :LOL: :LOL: ;)
 
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NineHotel

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Malcolm made a mag fed rifle for his and my mutual friend Lones Wigger back in the 80s. His was an across the course rifle in 243. It had some oddball custom user changeable barrel system. I had the opportunity to buy it (still do actually) but the barrel system maker is no longer around so it's a bit of a stranded asset. The action length and magazines were not a match for any of the current AE/AW type systems.

Regarding the rifle above, I would take it for what it is - a place and time in history - and leave it as-built. Otherwise it will lose its intrinsic value
 

Forgetful Coyote

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Not sure what makes that coopermatch worth 9k except that you can't get one. Some of the Palmamasters were 5 round repeaters. VERY few of those.

I've have burned out three 6.5x284s barrels though mine, all Borders. It wears a Border 6.5x47 now which shoots great but the whorishly large firing pin and hole crater primers badly so I rarely shoot it as I don't want to pierce and have to have a pin or head made. If I could post the pics I just took I would but Comcast is bogged down by my neighbors flapping to pornhub.

Oh, looks like be finished....

That's a custom Ti 20moa rail I had made because the one piece doesn't get the proper eye relief in the prone or repeat. I also has the 4 way buttplate made as the rubber one just goes up and down. A nice piece for what it is. Its reliable and solid but light with the pine laminate stock. The bolt head is replaceable but I don't have the magnum bolt head.

Best part of the pic is ome of View attachment 7288092my sweet mini-Aussie wondering why I'm fucking with her rest...

View attachment 7288094

View attachment 7288090View attachment 7288091

View attachment 7288093
Amazing! Did the original AI's back then come with Borders? As I was under the impression AI used Lothar Walther back then(at least for their tactical/sniper rifles..??
How does it compare with common High Power & Palma rifles used here in USA eg: Tubb 2K, Barnards, etc..if you’ve had the chance to try others..?
Also, have you considered sending it to Gre-Tan to have the bolt bushed/turned down firing pin..?? Or do you not wanna mess with it.. and keep it close to original as possible..??
Lastly, what’s your favorite and/or best shooting bolt action target rifle in this category: ie XTC, Palma, Mid & Long Range Prone Any/Any, etc rifles? Do/would you use a AR in standard XTC instead of a bolt rifle? What chambering?
Thanks a bunch for chiming in sir! And I apologize for so many questions..
 
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Forgetful Coyote

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I know for years the old AW’s came with Border barrels. Those barrels were always so good!
Certainly. Mr @Frank Green and/or Mr. @__JR__ should be able to confirm 1 way or the other, but I'm fairly certain Dr. Kolbe was trained directly by Mr. Boots Obermeyer, and then took his knowledge on back to UK.
Damn shame Border barrels is no longer in business and giving our cousins across the pond the option of domestic-produced top-of-line premium single point cut rifled tubes.. He also wrote some good pieces for Precision Shooting Magazine, which is another damn shame, that we ain't got that magazine around anymore. Was ALWAYS some great stuff in that magazine!!!

ETA: @sandwarrior or anyone else who'd know: you wouldn't happen to have any details on the barrels which Parker Hale used on their sniper rifles, as well as civvie target rifles, would you Mr Todd?
 
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Forgetful Coyote

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Mac passed a couple years ago. John Whidden took on Barnard from Mac. I connected Barnard with Mac back in 95/96.
First Barnard to the states was by me in 95.
I have no idea whatever became of Mac's extensive collection of some really unique and interesting small bore rifles and such.
You wouldn't happen to have a link to a web page(or maybe even a auction with some of his stuff with a still-active/viewable auction details/web page, provided his family sold some/any of his rifles thru an auction when he passed?) w/ details & pics of some of his rifle collection would ya?
 

FatBoy

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JR cut my last 4 Border barrels. They were all exceptional.

For a factory action that doesn't need to be touched (IMO) it's hard to best a Barnard P.
That said, almost all my competition rifles wear Robertson Prone stocks and have Anschutz or Barnard triggers so they essentially feel exactly the same. The Barnards are easily the easiest 3 lug to open. I have to drop my charge on the AI .4gr in the FagMags to allow an easy bolt lift
Six lugs are a bitch to break loose when you seat them hard with a load that expands the case too much. I have a WTC built FagMag that is super nice. I had a buddy rebarrel it a couple years ago but the work they did dovetailing a recoil lug on and fitting the 5018 trigger was amazing. I use their recoil lug and scope/iron rail on my non-Eliseo Barnard too. First class stuff.

I havent shot XTC in years and was never very good.
 

Frank Green

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Certainly. Mr @Frank Green and/or Mr. @__JR__ should be able to confirm 1 way or the other, but I'm fairly certain Dr. Kolbe was trained directly by Mr. Boots Obermeyer, and then took his knowledge on back to UK.
Damn shame Border barrels is no longer in business and giving our cousins across the pond the option of domestic-produced top-of-line premium single point cut rifled tubes.. He also wrote some good pieces for Precision Shooting Magazine, which is another damn shame, that we ain't got that magazine around anymore. Was ALWAYS some great stuff in that magazine!!!

ETA: @sandwarrior or anyone else who'd know: you wouldn't happen to have any details on the barrels which Parker Hale used on their sniper rifles, as well as civvie target rifles, would you Mr Todd?
AI over the years on the guns built in the UK used both Border and LW barrels. Some of the guys that worked at Border now only make button barrels. Place is called Sassen barrels or something like that. When on what rifles, the year the rifle was built I cannot tell you what was used.

We have an older AW in our shop that Tooley fit a barrel to in 308win. Every time I pull that gun out and shoot it all I can do is smile. The thing is a laser beam and just works! Shot it a couple of weeks ago in 8-13mph winds out to 430 yards and with box ammo was holding .52moa in those crappy conditions. Jeff in the shop a couple of years back to a couple of guys out shooting. At 600 yards one guy goes, “this thing doesn’t shoot!” Jeff got on the rifle and just hammered the target. Jeff looked at the guy and said, “nothing wrong with the rifle!” It’s you! LOL!

Later, Frank
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19Scout77

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This thread is like a target shooting version of one of the NFL shows in which people who have been there and/or done that are talking about those who unquestionably DID THAT! Lones Wigger was my HERO back when I was a kid. Shot FOREVER, full bird and still shooting, unbelievably approachable and most impressive of all accomplishments...father of Deena! Absolute perfection in a human being let alone a young woman (at least to this then 13yo!). Top shooter in the world, intelligent, kind...not to mention supermodel looks!

I remember back when I was messing with Tikkas, Mac freely dispensing invaluable information, while tending his tomato garden as the sun went down.

Probably say the same of Tooley, Warner and Gradous one day...just hopefully not any day soon!

How about Tubb and Bernosky? Then we will have my personal dream team!
 
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FatBoy

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Probably say the same of Tooley, Warner and Gradous one day...just hopefully not any day soon!
Al's sights are already there. One of his sights comes up for sale and dudes are tripping over one another to get the cash out first.
 
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sandwarrior

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Certainly. Mr @Frank Green and/or Mr. @__JR__ should be able to confirm 1 way or the other, but I'm fairly certain Dr. Kolbe was trained directly by Mr. Boots Obermeyer, and then took his knowledge on back to UK.
Damn shame Border barrels is no longer in business and giving our cousins across the pond the option of domestic-produced top-of-line premium single point cut rifled tubes.. He also wrote some good pieces for Precision Shooting Magazine, which is another damn shame, that we ain't got that magazine around anymore. Was ALWAYS some great stuff in that magazine!!!

ETA: @sandwarrior or anyone else who'd know: you wouldn't happen to have any details on the barrels which Parker Hale used on their sniper rifles, as well as civvie target rifles, would you Mr Todd?
From what I understand, the Birmingham barrels were in-house. The midland barrels I do not know about. There have been a lot of stories that they used Border barrels, but I do not know. The strange thing is a lot of the 1980's sniper models actions were made by Zastava. This was obviously a good place to get them, until they decided they needed a civil war and ethnic cleansing. Who's brilliant idea was that?
 
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__JR__

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AI over the years on the guns built in the UK used both Border and LW barrels. Some of the guys that worked at Border now only make button barrels. Place is called Sassen barrels or something like that. When on what rifles, the year the rifle was built I cannot tell you what was used.

We have an older AW in our shop that Tooley fit a barrel to in 308win. Every time I pull that gun out and shoot it all I can do is smile. The thing is a laser beam and just works! Shot it a couple of weeks ago in 8-13mph winds out to 430 yards and with box ammo was holding .52moa in those crappy conditions. Jeff in the shop a couple of years back to a couple of guys out shooting. At 600 yards one guy goes, “this thing doesn’t shoot!” Jeff got on the rifle and just hammered the target. Jeff looked at the guy and said, “nothing wrong with the rifle!” It’s you! LOL!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Aye, Border eventually morphed into Sassen after the sale but there's no proper Border guys there. Anyone who might have been with Border during the move that stayed did not get the full benefit of that core group that made that team a brotherhood. Border was Scotland, after they left the Borders of Scotland/England it disbanded fairly quick. Den and Dan are running GB rifles up in Southwest Scotland, cut rifling. Not sure who is running the sold cut riflers from Border. Lee moved to New Zealand, Gerald died, Bobby retired, Geoffrey is making reamer tools now at Riccarton. Border was always cut rifle, our button rifling division was known as Archer.

And Geoff did learn from Boots, met up with Cliff Labounty who is still with us, had the same interest of Malcolm cooper in building accurate rifles as he himself was a very accomplished 3p shooter back in the day. Just happened to be working at Livermore labs in Cali, lasers and ninja stuff, when the bug finally bit him good so he got in the car and started driving and meeting up with the best of the best barrelmakers then. Must admit he made pretty close to home flapjacks compared to what they call pancakes across the pond.

AI, we supplied both AW and AE. LW was another supplier. Believe it was Madden in Oz also made barrels. That was during my tenure. I do know we supplied fully chambered pipes to them, not sure if the other suppliers did as well. We were making all the AS50's about the time I left for Space Coast Florida. Man that was a while ago now that I think about it, 4 children ago, feels like yesterday. Most of us old timers still keep in regular contact, best group of undesirables you could wish for to work with. Lots of knowledge and application base we had there.

Later

JR
 

Forgetful Coyote

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Aye, Border eventually morphed into Sassen after the sale but there's no proper Border guys there. Anyone who might have been with Border during the move that stayed did not get the full benefit of that core group that made that team a brotherhood. Border was Scotland, after they left the Borders of Scotland/England it disbanded fairly quick. Den and Dan are running GB rifles up in Southwest Scotland, cut rifling. Not sure who is running the sold cut riflers from Border. Lee moved to New Zealand, Gerald died, Bobby retired, Geoffrey is making reamer tools now at Riccarton. Border was always cut rifle, our button rifling division was known as Archer.

And Geoff did learn from Boots, met up with Cliff Labounty who is still with us, had the same interest of Malcolm cooper in building accurate rifles as he himself was a very accomplished 3p shooter back in the day. Just happened to be working at Livermore labs in Cali, lasers and ninja stuff, when the bug finally bit him good so he got in the car and started driving and meeting up with the best of the best barrelmakers then. Must admit he made pretty close to home flapjacks compared to what they call pancakes across the pond.

AI, we supplied both AW and AE. LW was another supplier. Believe it was Madden in Oz also made barrels. That was during my tenure. I do know we supplied fully chambered pipes to them, not sure if the other suppliers did as well. We were making all the AS50's about the time I left for Space Coast Florida. Man that was a while ago now that I think about it, 4 children ago, feels like yesterday. Most of us old timers still keep in regular contact, best group of undesirables you could wish for to work with. Lots of knowledge and application base we had there.

Later

JR
Did Mr Obermeyer not train any of his family so they could take over? Also dont see a site for Maddco any more..
Are you the only one doing cut rifled barrels at KAC or do you have some other folks helping out?
 

__JR__

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Did Mr Obermeyer not train any of his family so they could take over? Also dont see a site for Maddco any more..
Are you the only one doing cut rifled barrels at KAC or do you have some other folks helping out?
Boots has been in some way or shape involved with every cut rifle barrelmaker alive today. He, like most of us doesn't believe in keeping the knowledge of the dark art to ourselves, if there is genuine ability to be created from the curiosity of the person asking the questions. It's not an overnight read a book or watch a youtube video and you're ready to go out and be the next barrelmaker. I was brought up more in the Atkinson methodology, mostly because that's where most of the cut rifler knowledge base and procedures I'd learned from were learned on his former machines I was running at the time, so it continued to pass down the chain thru the decades as I was brought in. It was later during my transition and resulting tenure in Scotland that Boots and I struck a solid chord. Both just wanting to continue to learn more. He's a country boy and I'm a country boy, so most of our written discussions revolved around milking cows or plowing fields. Then out of nowhere a snippet, might be a paragraph or even just 2 or 3 words that in hindsight he was probably just testing whether I was thinking and not just doing. As long as I was thinking, we kept the back and forth up as much as we could.

So yes, I've brought those into the fold here, and in Scotland, weeded out the ones who do and don't think. Most of the thinkers continue either in the craft or at least within the industry. But there is a big difference coming from custom barrel making base to our small scale production type workflow to feed the thinkers enough. Gotta be a doer too, it's all about reps and patience of watching millions of strokes on those rifling machines that keeps food on the table. Takes a different breed I guess, but indeed there is too much work for me here to oversee the department and have time to grow and innovate without having help on the lines operating the machines and gaining time learning. Some things just aren't on the agenda to learn until they come up. Sort of like when I interview and see 15-25 yrs experience doing this or that, my first question isn't how good of a job can you do. It's usually what was your biggest screwup in that 15yrs doing this job, and how did you learn from it? Because that's the experience you need for most machining. Not what's on page 334 in the programming book, we are about to reprogram you anyway. But in the troubleshooting chapter someone tore out of the book and had to write your own. Haha. Farmkid, was used to that. But know that I take oversight very seriously, and ensure the staff is of equal respect and duly armed for the craft. And have whatever help they need from me at their disposal 24/7. It's the team that makes the mark, wins the daily match. Border taught me that.

Later
 
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Forgetful Coyote

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Boots has been in some way or shape involved with every cut rifle barrelmaker alive today. He, like most of us doesn't believe in keeping the knowledge of the dark art to ourselves, if there is genuine ability to be created from the curiosity of the person asking the questions. It's not an overnight read a book or watch a youtube video and you're ready to go out and be the next barrelmaker. I was brought up more in the Atkinson methodology, mostly because that's where most of the cut rifler knowledge base and procedures I'd learned from were learned on his former machines I was running at the time, so it continued to pass down the chain thru the decades as I was brought in. It was later during my transition and resulting tenure in Scotland that Boots and I struck a solid chord. Both just wanting to continue to learn more. He's a country boy and I'm a country boy, so most of our written discussions revolved around milking cows or plowing fields. Then out of nowhere a snippet, might be a paragraph or even just 2 or 3 words that in hindsight he was probably just testing whether I was thinking and not just doing. As long as I was thinking, we kept the back and forth up as much as we could.

So yes, I've brought those into the fold here, and in Scotland, weeded out the ones who do and don't think. Most of the thinkers continue either in the craft or at least within the industry. But there is a big difference coming from custom barrel making base to our small scale production type workflow to feed the thinkers enough. Gotta be a doer too, it's all about reps and patience of watching millions of strokes on those rifling machines that keeps food on the table. Takes a different breed I guess, but indeed there is too much work for me here to oversee the department and have time to grow and innovate without having help on the lines operating the machines and gaining time learning. Some things just aren't on the agenda to learn until they come up. Sort of like when I interview and see 15-25 yrs experience doing this or that, my first question isn't how good of a job can you do. It's usually what was your biggest screwup in that 15yrs doing this job, and how did you learn from it? Because that's the experience you need for most machining. Not what's on page 334 in the programming book, we are about to reprogram you anyway. But in the troubleshooting chapter someone tore out of the book and had to write your own. Haha. Farmkid, was used to that. But know that I take oversight very seriously, and ensure the staff is of equal respect and duly armed for the craft. And have whatever help they need from me at their disposal 24/7. It's the team that makes the mark, wins the daily match. Border taught me that.

Later
Thanks a bunch for replying sir. What kind of steel is used in the SR25 barrels you make? Aside from chrome lining, why is chrome moly(I believe 4150 CMV?) specified by the .mil for full auto/carbine use?