Could there be hope for Afghanistan?

DTF370

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I don’t think it will last long. Talib’s will probably swarm and make an example out of them. The real question is who does Russia and China want to win? That will probably be the deciding factor.

It would be phenomenal if I am wrong. It would be make my heart warm to see resistance fight and win their country back. Maybe I’m naive, but had we done this gradually I think the ANA would have had a shot.
 

MtnCreek

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Taliman owns it now. N alliance could defeat them prior to invasion. Afg mil couldn't defeat them with us support. Now they're stronger than before. Over.
 
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BullGear

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    But I gotta say, with the leaders and many of the forces being in Kabul and other towns, this would be a good time for some drone strikes and a few MOAB strikes. They're not in caves any longer, so it would be easier to kill them now.
     

    Maggot

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    But I gotta say, with the leaders and many of the forces being in Kabul and other towns, this would be a good time for some drone strikes and a few MOAB strikes. They're not in caves any longer, so it would be easier to kill them now.
    Unfortunately that would harm to many civilians, who have gotten shit on for too many years already.
     

    RGStory

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    A recent interview with the former vice president of Afghanistan.
    I linked it to the point in the interview where he declares his intent to continue fighting.


    "We are not surrendering, We will not surrender, and we will not express allegiance to an Emir that has not been seen by the Afghan people, and even tonight is most likely staying in an ISI safehouse."
     

    E. Bryant

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    What kind of "hope for Afghanistan" are talking about? Hope that the outcome of the upcoming tribal warfare games will be the consolidation of power and eventually another 9/11-type attack? Hope that China will eventually be dumb enough to stick its collective dick into that hornet's nest so that the US and Russia can laugh at it? Hope that the CIA can maintain a presence in the opium trade?
     
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    91Eunozs

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    Vetted by one of my sources still plugged in…


    Here is a list (Forbes) of US-supplied and left behind equipment list now controlled by Taliban.

    -2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAP’s
    -75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc
    -45 UH-60 Blachhawk Helicopters
    -50 MD530G Scout Attack Choppers
    -ScanEagle Military Drones
    -30 Military Version Cessnas
    -4 C-130’s
    -29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tocano Ground Attack Aircraft

    =208+ Aircraft Total!!

    -At least 600,000+ Small arms M16, M249 SAWs, M24 Sniper Systems, 50 Calibers, 1,394 M203 Grenade Launchers, M134 Mini Gun, 20mm Gatling Guns and Ammunition
    -61,000 M203 Rounds
    -20,040 Grenades
    -Howitzers
    -Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
    -162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Comunications Gear
    -16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
    -Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
    -Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Googles
    -10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
    -Recconaissance Equipment (ISR)
    -Laser Aiming Units
    -Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
    -2,520 Bombs
    -Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops ALL operational
    -Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
    -Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
    -Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
    -US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics
    -Lots of Heavy Equipment Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators
     

    RGStory

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    What kind of "hope for Afghanistan" are talking about? Hope that the outcome of the upcoming tribal warfare games will be the consolidation of power and eventually another 9/11-type attack? Hope that China will eventually be dumb enough to stick its collective dick into that hornet's nest so that the US and Russia can laugh at it? Hope that the CIA can maintain a presence in the opium trade?
    I think Maggot's original statement was alluding to the hope that at least some of the Afghans were willing to organize a resistance and not simply lay down their arms and surrender to the Taliban. At least that is how I understood it.
     

    Mr.BR

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    Seems they will have a tough battle fighting all the nice equipment we left the Towelibanners.

    Afghan fighters recapture territory ... - News Chant South Africa

    https://za.newschant.com › world › afghan-fighters-reca...



    3 hours ago — Afghan fighters recapture territory from Taliban as pockets of armed
    Post might be 3h old but reports are from 21st , since then Taliban recaptured all these , The main player against the Taliban are ISI-K-P , and lets just say Taliban are prefered over ISI-K , Taliban are Afghan centric while ISIS and offshoots have global aspirations.

    Latest status is they are still talking.

    Taliban & Resistance Front Hold Talks Amid Prolonged Impasse; Agree On Dialogue: Report

    In a huge development, the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan and the Taliban held talks for the first time on Wednesday according to a media report.



    In the meantime folks can stop pretending the Taliban bad , we don't deal with terrorists. That is just a catchphrase, folks do business with Terrorists every day. US did business with the Taliban before.
    12/14/1997
    Oil barons court Taliban in Texas By Caroline Lees

    THE Taliban, Afghanistan's Islamic fundamentalist army, is about to sign a £2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across the war-torn country.


    The Islamic warriors appear to have been persuaded to close the deal, not through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality. Last week Unocal, the Houston-based company bidding to build the 876-mile pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, invited the Taliban to visit them in Texas. Dressed in traditional salwar khameez, Afghan waistcoats and loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment during the four-day stay.

    The Taliban ministers and their advisers stayed in a five-star hotel and were chauffeured in a company minibus. Their only requests were to visit Houston's zoo, the Nasa space centre and Omaha's Super Target discount store to buy stockings, toothpaste, combs and soap. The Taliban, which controls two-thirds of Afghanistan and is still fighting for the last third, was also given an insight into how the other half lives.


     
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    brianf

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    there is hope just, not american "ideals" hope

    the majority of the population does not want "western ways" and want it to stay how it has been for 1500 years

    they had a chance to fight for 20 years with unlimited backing, and now a few stand up to fight...who by the way will be slaughtered

    they never have and never will change or want to change
     

    Maggot

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    I think Maggot's original statement was alluding to the hope that at least some of the Afghans were willing to organize a resistance and not simply lay down their arms and surrender to the Taliban. At least that is how I understood it.
    YOu understood it correctly. I like what the guy in the video has to say, Essentially, "We've had a taste of freedom and its worth fighting for." Isnt that what Kyle Carpenter said, we gave them a taste of freedom. I hope he's real, because they've got an uphill battle with all the shit we gave the Towelies. God Bless him, those who fight with him for freedom, and all ours who are still in the shit.
     

    Mr.BR

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    Call me cynical , but do you seriously believe its about freedom :devilish: :ROFLMAO: , from what we have seen in the demands thay posted to Taliban ,they wanted a seat at the table in the new government and considering the guy's uncle was literarily carrying bags of cash out of Afghanistan, i pick they want $$ and power vs freedom. Massoud's have been at various seats of power In Afghanistan with short Taliban interruption for past 30+y

    You have to consider that the media posturing is meant for western audiences.

     
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    Maggot

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    Call me cynical , but do you seriously believe its about freedom :devilish: :ROFLMAO: , from what we have seen in the demands that posted to Taliban ,they wanted a seat at the table in the new government and considering the guy's uncle was literarily carrying bags of cash out of Afghanistan, i pick they want $$ and power vs freedom. Massoud's have been at various seats of power In Afghanistan with short Taliban interruption for past 30+y

    You have to consider that the media posturing is meant for western audiences.

    I dont doubt youre at least partly, mostly? right, but Id wager some are fighting for the right reasons. Sad commentary.
     

    acudaowner

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    I give my self better odds of winning that mega billion dollars Ive been dreaming of for 30 years than those people ever standing up in mass and killing all the terrorists cleaning up there country and finally living in peace that someone else is not paying for nothing against them but they have been however they are for thousands of years I do wish them the best of luck but see little chance of that ever happening hell I give tokyo better odds they will over throw china and gain there independence while at home we are allowing comunist to dictate policies .
     
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    Mr.BR

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    I dont doubt youre at least partly, mostly? right, but Id wager some are fighting for the right reasons. Sad commentary.
    If i understand correctly they are both from Panjshir , so i am 100% they are willing to fight for their home as are their men unlike Dostum and his Militia that fled over the border.

    But 'freedom fries' for Afghanistan they are not.
     

    RGStory

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    If i understand correctly they are both from Panjshir , so i am 100% they are willing to fight for their home as are their men unlike Dostum and his Militia that fled over the border.

    But 'freedom fries' for Afghanistan they are not.

    Freedom is relative. Are you free? Could you be more free? Does anyone promise this notion to you with the expectation of profit or power in return?

    I can absolutely see them promising to offer freedom in return for international support in the way of arms and financing. I can see them even providing more freedom than what the Taliban is offering. Especially if doing so gives them greater support and legitimacy which will in turn give them power.

    I think he is merely asking for moral support and recognition at this point.

    If I was stuck in Afghanistan, I would be making my way to Panjshir right now. However, you are correct that I would not expect to be eating 'freedom fries' when I arrived.
     

    Unknown

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    The Afghan people have known wars ever since recorded history...Alexander the Great even wet through there. War for the Afghan people is a cultural "norm", just as democrats wanting to hand out free stuff is a cultural "norm" for our society. I don't know why anyone would expect anything different than the Afghan people have had for the past 300 years.

    Even a quick check of wikipedia shows over 30 different wars going back to around 1190.
     
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    Maggot

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    The Afghan people have known wars ever since recorded history...Alexander the Great even wet through there. War for the Afghan people is a cultural "norm", just as democrats wanting to hand out free stuff is a cultural "norm" for our society. I don't know why anyone would expect anything different than the Afghan people have had for the past 300 years.

    Even a quick check of wikipedia shows over 30 different wars going back to around 1190.
    Goes back a lot further. Alexander invade circa 330 BC. or therbouts.
     

    Mr.BR

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    Freedom is relative. Are you free? Could you be more free? Does anyone promise this notion to you with the expectation of profit or power in return?

    I can absolutely see them promising to offer freedom in return for international support in the way of arms and financing. I can see them even providing more freedom than what the Taliban is offering. Especially if doing so gives them greater support and legitimacy which will in turn give them power.

    I think he is merely asking for moral support and recognition at this point.

    If I was stuck in Afghanistan, I would be making my way to Panjshir right now. However, you are correct that I would not expect to be eating 'freedom fries' when I arrived.
    Considering Tribal allegiances they could maybe count on some other Tajik tribes, but not many other ethnic groups.
     

    RGStory

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    Considering Tribal allegiances they could maybe count on some other Tajik tribes, but not many other ethnic groups.

    Perhaps for a moment. As long as they are willing to align interests against the Taliban. No permanent allies or permanent enemies, only temporarily aligned interests.

    I suspect this gets to why he is trying to frame the narrative of the Taliban being Pakistani backed. While true to an extent, it could prove to be a uniting element to any fractional resistance that has splintered along ethnic lines. It also has the added advantage of courting the Indian government and people for support along with Tajikistan.

    His father once argued for a broken Afghanistan, either broken into separate states or at least separate regional authorities to allow the internal divisions within Afghanistan a place for expression without tearing itself apart by an overarching government with sole authority and singular national identity. An interesting suggestion.
     

    TheGerman

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    I don’t think it will last long. Talib’s will probably swarm and make an example out of them. The real question is who does Russia and China want to win? That will probably be the deciding factor.

    It would be phenomenal if I am wrong. It would be make my heart warm to see resistance fight and win their country back. Maybe I’m naive, but had we done this gradually I think the ANA would have had a shot.

    I could write an entire dissertation on whats going to happen next, but Ill try and keep it short.

    What you are seeing now, is not what anything will look like a month to six months from now. To an extent, this has all already happened before where 3 main 'groups' split up Afghanistan. You are also going to be seeing the Taliban fight each other in the not so far future. Taliban, ISIS, AQ, etc are all generalizations. It's almost like calling someone French because they're from France, but that's it. In reality, they basically don't like each other at baseline. Right now is the honeymoon period. That will end soon.

    We saw it happen on a constant basis and used to call them the 'flavor of the month club' because they all have completely different and conflicting ways of life, ideologies and all sorts of shit. Then some guy would take his ball, 50 loyal fighters and go start the 'super camel jihad brotherhood' that was way more extremest/fundamentalist than whatever they were just part of. We'd usually figure out there was a new one popping up when there would be a big spike in VBIEDs and 'martyr' type suicide bombings all of a sudden in one area.

    There's still tribalism after 1000+ years for a reason there. All its going to take is for the new car smell to wear off and then someone not being happy with whoever is in charge at the time because they're 'not muslim enough'. There will be infighting, splintering and all sorts of shit. They will fight for control of cities and logistical areas. One tribe wants retribution on another, and it just goes from there.
     

    SilentStalkr

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    What it will really come down to is, who has the most heart and resources. There are some good people over there and some have had a glimpse of what real hope, freedom and modern society is like. Others don’t necessarily want that because of cultural and educational differences. Some think they have the fortitude to drive and take on a much larger force but I tell you what will really be their test is if they have the will to carry on when their forces are cut down left and right and they’ve got nowhere to go and limited supplies, that will be the pivotal moment as to whether they continue or cut and run.

    Winning battles and wars ain’t necessarily always about numbers and resources but rather how much heart a group has over another. It’s like the old saying goes, you can achieve anything you want if you put enough effort towards it, that’s the difference and most people fall short. It’s like a good workout. Many people go 90% of the way but it’s not enough. The ones that go the extra 10% which are few and far between are the difference makers.

    Do the ones who want to fight for their country have it? I believe some do but is it enough? I don’t know. The percentage certainly isn’t in their favor but then again, in a lot of cases it wasn’t in ours either. This is their time to shine. They can either make it or break it. You guys have to remember, there were very few that wanted to fight a much much superior enemy during the Revolutionary War. Thank God for those few that did! There is hope for Afghanistan but it’s on them to determine the outcome.

    “A people fired ... with love of their country and of liberty, a zeal for the public good, and a noble emulation of glory, will not be disheartened or dispirited by a succession of unfortunate events. But like them, may we learn by defeat the power of becoming invincible.” - Abigail Adams
     
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    Aftermath

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    I give my self better odds of winning that mega billion dollars Ive been dreaming of for 30 years than those people ever standing up in mass and killing all the terrorists cleaning up there country and finally living in peace that someone else is not paying for nothing against them but they have been however they are for thousands of years I do wish them the best of luck but see little chance of that ever happening hell I give tokyo better odds they will over throw china and gain there independence while at home we are allowing comunist to dictate policies .
    Tokyo needs to overthrow China to gain independence?
     
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    Maggot

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    Fuck Afghanistan.

    My question is, is there hope for America?
    I wont say fuck Afghanistan but Ive been wondering the same.

    It's looking sketchy from my window, but I have hope.

    I think many of us know what needs to be done, but will we. Im too old and worn down for that kind of activity but I know there are many who are able and willing. Will they?
     

    TurboTrout

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    You think the majority of the people of Afghanistan want Starbucks and a American lifestyle? There is a chance their version of a “good life” isn’t the same as Tammy and Bubbas.

    I’d say watching yet another invading super power leave defeated was a win for them, watching some of the news coverage, most don’t seem to be crying over our withdrawal

    They also chased their planted president out of the country, remind me of the outcome of our last election and recent gov?

    Honestly we are in no position to say shit to Afghanistan, we need to clean our own homes before we point our sausage sized gov worshipping fingers at anyone.
     

    theLBC

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    piece of shit graham was on hannity talking about going back and taking bagram so we can assist the vp.

    basically, he wants the money laundering operation restarted.
     

    Maggot

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    You think the majority of the people of Afghanistan want Starbucks and a American lifestyle? There is a chance their version of a “good life” isn’t the same as Tammy and Bubbas.

    I’d say watching yet another invading super power leave defeated was a win for them, watching some of the news coverage, most don’t seem to be crying over our withdrawal

    They also chased their planted president out of the country, remind me of the outcome of our last election and recent gov?

    Honestly we are in no position to say shit to Afghanistan, we need to clean our own homes before we point our sausage sized gov worshipping fingers at anyone.
    Were you addressing my post? I wanst speaking about Afghanistan at all. What needs done, needs done much closer...
     

    TexPatriot

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    I wont say fuck Afghanistan but Ive been wondering the same.

    It's looking sketchy from my window, but I have hope.

    I think many of us know what needs to be done, but will we. Im too old and worn down for that kind of activity but I know there are many who are able and willing. Will they?
    It was a primitive shithole 1k years ago and will be continue to be a primitive shithole 1k years from now.
     

    theLBC

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    You think the majority of the people of Afghanistan want Starbucks and a American lifestyle? There is a chance their version of a “good life” isn’t the same as Tammy and Bubbas.

    I’d say watching yet another invading super power leave defeated was a win for them, watching some of the news coverage, most don’t seem to be crying over our withdrawal

    They also chased their planted president out of the country, remind me of the outcome of our last election and recent gov?

    Honestly we are in no position to say shit to Afghanistan, we need to clean our own homes before we point our sausage sized gov worshipping fingers at anyone.
    i think that depends on if you are a girl or a dude.
    girls will suffer.
    i am quite certain a large number of afghan men resented empowered muslim karens telling them all what to do, and what they can't do, after quite the opposite situation for centuries.
     

    TurboTrout

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    i think that depends on if you are a girl or a dude.
    girls will suffer.
    i am quite certain a large number of afghan men resented empowered muslim karens telling them all what to do, and what they can't do, after quite the opposite situation for centuries.

    That’s something that they will have to work out and decide for themselves.

    We were wrong to go there, I love my country, I love it enough to be honest with it, we were the “bad guys” on that invasion.
     

    ken226

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    It didn't take the Tolly-bon long to figure out those biometric scanners. Apparently the server with the data identifying afghans who worked with the US was stored locally in Kabul in a "nondescript" building. The Taliban have a unit specifically tasked with scanning folks, and sorting out who's who, with technical assistance from Pakistan, of course.

     
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    theLBC

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    That’s something that they will have to work out and decide for themselves.

    We were wrong to go there, I love my country, I love it enough to be honest with it, we were the “bad guys” on that invasion.
    i don't know about us being the "bad guys", but it was a huge mistake to push buttstuff, abortion and other liberal stuff on a fundamentalist muslim nation. i can tell you there will be many more unhappy people there than there was before we were there.
    most of them had no idea that libtards considered them victims because they couldn't fuck strangers and kill the babies.
     

    The D

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    Who the fuck cares anymore...

    Just let them all kill each other.

    I'm done with all this shit. Lost all my fellow brothers and sisters for what....so this guy can fuck a goat....

    Doc
    No, it’s much worse than that. The goat fucker isn’t affecting your life at all. The psychopaths in dc used you and your friends as pawns in a game and to get fantastically rich. They don’t care about you, or anyone you love. At all…

    What’s the phrase? When rich men go to war, poor men die.
     
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    TXAZ

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    China will solve the problem in Afghanistan by building a major road the flooding the country with Chinese, diluting the population just like they’re doing in Tibet, and picking up $1T + in rare earth minerals.
     

    Maggot

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    No, it’s much worse than that. The goat fucker isn’t affecting your life at all. The psychopaths in dc used you and your friends as pawns in a game and to get fantastically rich. They don’t care about you, or anyone you love. At all…

    What’s the phrase? When rich men go to war, poor men die.
    There's another.

    "War is good business. Give your son."

    :mad:
     
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