mj1995

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I am wanting to get my first high end precision rifle. I have shot many different rifles in all different calibers but want to shoot further and with a lot nicer rifle than I am used to. So my question is, what does everyone think of building your own custom rifle vs buying say a surgeon. I was thinking either to get a surgeon remedy with the ax chassis or to build my own rifle off of a rem 700. If I built my own it would be a .300 win mag with an xlr chassis vortex razor hd scope and a Lra bipod. If I did the surgeon, it would have the same scope and bipod. I want to use the spuhr mount on either rifle and the surgeon would probably be a .300 Norma or a .338lm the 700 would be a .300 win mag until I shot out the barrel then would get trued and rechambered as a .300 Norma. I figure that the price difference would be about $2000 with the surgeon being the more expensive one. So do you guys recommend to go with the surgeon and just save up for a while or to go with my custom build and do it over time buying it piece by piece when I get the money for my next part? Also do you guys think to end up with a .338 lapua or the .300 Norma? This rifle would be used for long range shooting one day, hopefully out to a mile. I do not plan on doing any competitions so I don't need to follow any regulations. Any info or things I have over looked would be greatly appreciated and thank you.
 

alman1531

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For the rifle I would suggest buy once cry once if you can afford it. If you can’t afford the full system now, then you can go piece by piece. You should also check out Accuracy International rifles. They will go toe to toe with any Surgeon. I don't have any experience with those calibers so I can't help you there.
 

mj1995

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But it's it actually with the extra money to have the surgeon rifle? Are they that much better. I will have to save up for a while either way but I have always wanted to get a nice rig.
 

Infringed711

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I personally don't think so, my rem aac sd is a sub .5moa in a manners t4a w/mini chassis...that being said I still want a custom rifle so maybe I should've just sprung for one to start with.
 

xringaccuracy

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Best bet is to survey some custom rifle builders. You may be surprised at the cost difference between them and buying a "Surgeon". And to top it off, when find a competent one, it will shoot as good if not better than the big name guys.
Forgot to add, if doing a custom, it is exactly what you want, not someone elses idea of perfect. Food for thought.
 
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briang7511

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just a thought maybe desert tactical arms? once you get the chassis you just need a conversion kit to change caliber.
 

alman1531

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One thing you get with a Surgeon, AI, or other top custom shop is attention to detail to everything on the rifle. It is not just the accuracy of the rifle. I have seen a base model 700 with nothing but a bedding job done shoot 1/2 MOA with reloads. There is also some peice of mind knowing that you have top end gear. That way if the downrange results are not up to par, you can only blame yourself and not the gun. :)
 

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From what I see the bought rifles you get from these higher name manufacturers are basically the end product of what you would do over time with a custom build. The only major difference I see is if you custom build you can get exactly every item you want in the way you want. Now if you go with certain builders such as Gap etc you can always get a bought rifle with the custom work and the options to switch say the stock etc out before you purchase.
 

mj1995

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Ok. I'm thinking that I should just go custom and end up doing the .300norma. Plus I can always but a .338 lapua later in life from surgeon or Asbury. I know the .300norma and lapua can hang together if you run the 230 target bergers and if the lapua had the 250 scenars.
 

mj1995

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I don't really like the dta I'm sure they are great rifles but I just do not like the way they look at all. The concept is awesome though.
 

John1911.com

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Unless you live are living out at 1 mile (70-80-90%) of your shooting, I'm not so sure you shouldn't get the 300WM. You really can do A LOT with 300wm.

If you must go 338 or 300 Norma, I would suggest buying used. I tend to notice quite a few high-end elephant calibers in the forsake section. Expensive to feed. More blast. And at anything closer than 1500, pure overkill.

There's more than 1 way to skin a cat, but if you are asking and 300 or 338 are even in the same conversation, get the 300 WM. Its been my experience that people NEEDING 338 are few and far between. Hence, their popularity in the forsake sections of forums.

TTR
 

mj1995

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Thank you for the reply. I have decided that I'm going to build my own 300wm and then when I burn out the barrel switch it to a .300norma just for fun and being different sake. It is a very cool caliber.
 

mdmp5

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    just a thought maybe desert tactical arms? once you get the chassis you just need a conversion kit to change caliber.

    If anyone is considering a DTA, I would recommend getting behind one first. They are very good rifles, and the trigger is very nice. However, the inherent bullpup design provides for an odd feeling when cycling the bolt, which may not be your cup of tea. Personally, I find the bolt cycling to be hard to get used to.
     

    gimpy

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    Just curious. You mention AX chassis and 300 win. Why not do a 300 win in an AX chassis?
     

    garandman

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    What is this about "needing" a a338? What's need got too with it? Got to do with it? :)

    DOn't over look the 338 Norma Mag.
     

    redneckbmxer24

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    If I was in the market for a 338 right now I'd buy the AX338 in the classifieds for $5100 shipped. That's a hell of a deal for that rifle.
     

    mj1995

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    What is this about "needing" a a338? What's need got too with it? Got to do with it? :)

    DOn't over look the 338 Norma Mag.
    I also looked at this caliber and it seems pretty sweet to. I'll actually probably choose this one over the lm one day when I can.
     

    mj1995

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    If I was in the market for a 338 right now I'd buy the AX338 in the classifieds for $5100 shipped.
    That's a hell of a deal for that rifle.

    I don't have all the coin right now. That's why I was saying I have to save up. If it is still there I'll take a serious look at it. But for now it's probably going to be the plan to build my own part by part whenever I get money.
     

    ZiaHunter

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    Be careful when you jump into the custom rifle route since it can be addicting! A couple of years ago I took the plunge and now have four with another being built. I have two in 300 WM and they are great to shoot but the barrels are good for approximately 1,000 rounds and you can reach that round count fairly quickly and find yourself re barreling the rifle. This is not only expensive but with the current scarcity of quality barrels you may be waiting months to get the rifle back. In addition, if you really want to get the most of your rifle using hand loads is probably the way to go and the 300 WM is not the easiest to load for a number of reasons. I would definitely look at the 6.5 calibers for out to a 1,000 yards. Longer barrel life, low recoil and great ballistics.

    Some of the rifles I have are from big name custom shops and some from a locate gunsmith in Albuquerque. The one from the local gunsmith is in 6.5 CM and shoots as well if not better than the ones from the big name guys. It was a true custom build and we went through every component of the rifle in deciding the configuration. It took about a year to build due to the scarcity of components but well worth the wait. Good luck.
     

    mj1995

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    Just curious. You mention AX chassis and 300 win. Why not do a 300 win in an AX chassis?

    That's an option too. The only thing that I have really decided on are starting rifle and glass. Unless someone talks me out of the vortex razor hd.
     

    mj1995

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    Be careful when you jump into the custom rifle route
    since it can be addicting! A couple of years ago I took the plunge and now have four with another being built. I have two in 300 WM and they are great to shoot but the barrels are good for approximately 1,000 rounds and you can reach that round count fairly quickly and find yourself re barreling the rifle. This is not only expensive but with the current scarcity of quality barrels you may be waiting months to get the rifle back. In addition, if you really want to get the most of your rifle using hand loads is probably the way to go and the 300 WM is not the easiest to load for a number of reasons. I would definitely look at the 6.5 calibers for out to a 1,000 yards. Longer barrel life, low recoil and great ballistics.

    Some of the rifles I have are from big name custom shops and some from a locate gunsmith in Albuquerque. The one from the local gunsmith is in 6.5 CM and shoots as well if not better than the ones from the big name guys. It was a true custom build and we went through every component of the rifle in deciding the configuration. It took about a year to build due to the scarcity of components but well worth the wait. Good luck.

    I don't think I will be hitting that 1000 round count very quickly. It would probably take a few years as I always have a bunch of stuff going on. I do have another rem 700 .300wm but cannot use it for a build as it was handed down to me. But I am reloading for it a 6.5x55 Swede and .45 auto. Waiting will be ok for me because I just started working and this will be my very first build. (Well besides my nagant.) But the wait will be ok it'll just give me more time to get money and figure out exactly what I want.
     

    mj1995

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    Also what do you guys think between the 7mm rem mag vs a .300wm for 1000+ yards? Do you recommend just going the 300wm route because I already have the stuff to reload it or should I look at adding another caliber to my arsenal?
     

    John1911.com

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    I don't think I will be hitting that 1000 round count very quickly. It would probably take a few years as I always have a bunch of stuff going on. I do have another rem 700 .300wm but cannot use it for a build as it was handed down to me. But I am reloading for it a 6.5x55 Swede and .45 auto. Waiting will be ok for me because I just started working and this will be my very first build. (Well besides my nagant.) But the wait will be ok it'll just give me more time to get money and figure out exactly what I want.

    Seriously? WTF? HAHAHAHA! You didn't say you already had 6.5 Sweede running.

    Ok. If you are reloading 6.5 Sweede, why not just do that? If you want a 6-6.5 bullet. There are also lots of Sweede factory options. There are also factory 300WM match options.

    I still think you should stick with 300 for what your initial post inquired.

    TTR
     

    Quarter Horse

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    I'm thinking you should be looking in an entirely different direction. A .300WM or .338LM are not good choices for starter rifles in long range. One of the 6.5s or a .308 are much better alternatives. They have much more tolerable recoil, longer barrel life, lower ammo/reloading costs and they will all get you to 1000yds. If you start off with something like an FN SPR 1A or a SSG3000 Patrol Rifle you will have a very capable rifle with which to build skills and precision rifle is first about skills and then about equipment. Spend your money on ammo and training and you will be far ahead when your ready to have a go at 1000.
     

    mj1995

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    I'd rather not go .308 I usually like to do stuff that most people (well at least people I don't normal shoot with) don't have or generally see much. All of my buddies have 308s I know it's a pretty good caliber though. I already have everything to load my .300wm now so adding another that eats the same wouldn't be so bad. I have shot somewhat long distances before but I am just wanting a nicer rifle than a plain 700 now. I have gotten his with my 700 at 500 yds before. Not tight groups but rounds on paper. I'm thinking of going with the new 700 "long range" model and just getting a nice scope for now and having it bedded until I can buy all the stuff that I eventually want to be on the rifle.
     

    Quarter Horse

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    The SPR action is essentially a pre-64 Winchester action. This action is controlled feed with an integral recoil lug, Mauser extractor, blade ejector, flat bottom and three position safety. FN now owns the Winchester name and produces the Winchester sporting rifles with the exception of some guns produced by Miroku in Japan. The SPR in the A3G configuration is one of two rifles selected by the FBI as their precision rifle. In the A1 configuration, you can buy a new rifle for about $1600. and a used pre-owned rifle, with a very low round count, for under $1200.00 and they are available in .300WSM. If you get to the point that you can out shoot this rifle's inherent accuracy you can officially assume the title of "shooter."

    I suggest the .308 for a number of reasons. A .300WM uses about 70% more powder and the cases cost roughly 30% more. Barrels last 1000 rounds instead of 5000. Recoil is such that no one spends a day of range time shooting a .300WM unless it has a brake or suppressor. Recoil is the enemy of accuracy. I can attest to the fact that extended use of heavy recoiling firearms will leave you working to overcome the dreaded flinch for the rest of your shooting career. Theirs a sticky at the top of this forum, http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...actical-shooters-equipment-what-pros-use.html. Note they are no .300WM, .308Norma, .338LM, etc. With only a couple of exceptions, everything is 6mm or 6.5MeyM. Most of the shooters are still using brakes. They choose these cartridges because they are the best balance of range, recoil and the ability to cheat the wind.

    I doubt any of your buddies are shooting SPRs or SSGs. They won't be asking if it's a .308, they'll be asking where they can buy one.
     

    mj1995

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    The SPR action is essentially a pre-64 Winchester
    action. This action is controlled feed with an integral recoil lug, Mauser extractor, blade ejector, flat bottom and three position safety. FN now owns the Winchester name and produces the Winchester sporting rifles with the exception of some guns produced by Miroku in Japan. The SPR in the A3G configuration is one of two rifles selected by the FBI as their precision rifle. In the A1 configuration, you can buy a new rifle for about $1600. and a used pre-owned rifle, with a very low round count, for under $1200.00 and they are available in .300WSM. If you get to the point that you can out shoot this rifle's inherent accuracy you can officially assume the title of "shooter."

    I suggest the .308 for a number of reasons. A .300WM uses about 70% more powder and the cases cost roughly 30% more. Barrels last 1000 rounds instead of 5000. Recoil is such that no one spends a day of range time shooting a .300WM unless it has a brake or suppressor. Recoil is the enemy of accuracy. I can attest to the fact that extended use of heavy recoiling firearms will leave you working to overcome the dreaded flinch for the rest of your shooting career. Theirs a sticky at the top of this forum, http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...actical-shooters-equipment-what-pros-use.html. Note they are no .300WM, .308Norma, .338LM, etc. With only a couple of exceptions, everything is 6mm or 6.5MeyM. Most of the shooters are still using brakes. They choose these cartridges because they are the best balance of range, recoil and the ability to cheat the wind.

    I doubt any of your buddies are shooting SPRs or SSGs. They won't be asking if it's a .308, they'll be asking where they can buy one.

    These are all very good true points. Is there any aftermarket support for the fn if you don't like something on it? Trigger stock etc? I have also been looking at .243 and 7mm rem mag along with the .260 rem but want to acquire all of them not soon but want to have many precision rifles.
     

    Quarter Horse

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    The Mod. 70 is an older action design. It is the successor to the Mod. 54 and was introduced in 1930s. The mod. 700 was introduced in the early 1960s and is the successor to the 721 and 722 designs from the late 1940s. In 1964 the new model 70 design was introduced and it included design changes, particularly in the bolt, that mimicked the Rem. 700. The changes for both companies were not about producing a better action. They were about reducing production costs. The pre 64 action was reintroduced in the early 1990s. Thus ends the brief history lesson.

    The SPR action is trued at the factory. The barrel is chrome lined which, reportedly, significantly improves barrel life. The accuracy of the SPRs puts to rest the accusation that chrome lined barrels are inherently inaccurate. The trigger can easily be adjusted, by a competent 'smith, to under two pounds. Regardless, there are aftermarket triggers available. The current SPRs come with different McMillan stocks and other manufacturers build for the 70 FN including Manners. There is a much greater selection in chassis for the 700. The overall selection of parts/accessories for the 700 is greater than the for the 70 but you can still get anything you need for the mod. 70.

    The reason I suggested the SPR is about accuracy and price not because I don't believe 700 based rifles can't be superbly accurate rifles. I'd rather be shooting than waiting. Good luck on your venture.
     

    mj1995

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    Thank you for all of your input. I do like the spr after looking into it more. I'm going to check if xlr makes an inlet for it because I really wanted to run their chassis or a whiskey 3. It will be used for a back packing gun on hikes in southern Arizona so I want it to be able to fit into my pack so it doesn't get damaged. I will be checking out the spr more and thank you again.
     

    mj1995

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    As stated above I'm reloading my own ammo. Already loading .300wm 6.5x55 and .45acp.