DeLane Development Group Rimfire Ventures
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
Pretty sure the 10/22 I had when I was like 8 years old fed fine with a sweet 30 round mag, it also had this totally awesome Ramline folding stock I think... C'mon Mike, that was like 35 years ago, get with it!Dude, stop it.
MB
Pretty sure the 10/22 I had when I was like 8 years old fed fine with a sweet 30 round mag, it also had this totally awesome Ramline folding stock I think... C'mon Mike, that was like 35 years ago, get with it!
MB
I'll announce the opening of that pre-order after two phases of prototyping and validation. Within three weeks....
MB
To eliminate feeding issues with the 700 platform actions would using something like the CZ457 use where the magwell is directly attached to the action make sense? It allows the use of smaller propose built magazines and also takes different chassis out of the equation.
Can you take me through how “feeding issues” are linked to anything other than the convention used on the CZ457?
Also, what you’re describing was used by Remington on the 40X Rimfire in their attempt to make a repeater, but they were never successful in making the 40X work as a repeater. Part of the reason was the small magazines.
MB
This is more asking from a place of limited knowledge. My personal experience is with the Bergara B14r and CZ457. The biggest issue I have with my Bergara is getting the different aftermarket options and factory magazines to work in different chassis magwells. From what I have experienced personally and watched form other shooters in my area the CZ457s don't have issues feeding. Mechanically it seems that taking the chassis variations out of the equation could help. This could be my misunderstanding of what is going on. I know the Bergara isn't produced at the level of precision that the Vudoo/Rimx actions are so that maybe part of the problem. There is also the fact that most Bergara users myself included are trying to use magazines that aren't technically designed for the Bergara but for the Vudoo/Rimx rifles with the Bergara being an after thought. I believe the new magazine from L3i is the first to be specifically design for it.
Ah, gotcha, and you basically nailed it already. There are less issues induced in the CZ457 because there’s less parts from anyone other than CZ being thrown at those rifles that create feeding/cycling issues.
With a platform footprint that’s been out in the market since 1962, there are more companies throwing parts into the mix that don’t adhere to the origins of what it means to truly be compatible.
So, all these outages stack up, but it’s more convenient to blame a magazine when there’s tilting, nosediving and other issues, and of course, there are now followers and adjustable gadgets on the market that actually aren’t a solution.
The AICS style Rimfire Magazine is a purpose designed and manufactured magazine, as it performs within the realm of necessity when considering the host it interfaces with.
To use a smaller scale magazine intended for a different host creates the same issues as the multitude of components with varying dimensional origins.
When it comes to proper feeding/cycling, it’s truly as simple as sticking to foundational information.
MB
My Duece has what I would call a “very low profile mag well” that goes on the bottom of the action to set the mag tower up in tighter tolerance that a chassis mag well. Is something like that the typical solution? I have not handled Voodoo stuff so don’t know how you do it.
Something like that could be (and I’ve not seen it nor do I know much about what they’re doing) as long as the base dimensions (within the tolerance band) of what was created by Accuracy International are being adhered to.
From what I’ve seen of the Deuce, I believe they’re doing a really good job at pushing boundaries, the right way.
What I use to drive functionality are print based dimensions and no guess work.
MB
This guy is pretty level headed and did a good analysis 3-4 years ago on vudoo magazine design problems.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYD9qTZpWoM
(paste the link it won't let me post the vid)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYD9qTZpWoM
(paste the link it won't let me post the vid)
I've seen that video before and within the 20:03, I actually didn't hear an "analysis" or him talking about "design problems." He did mention the difference in physical size between the Gen 1 Aluminum and the Nylon magazine, but as I've mentioned before, the later Nylon magazines were never the level of quality of the magazines that came out of the facility in Madison, Alabama and welded in my shop. That's not a design problem inasmuch as it was an induced problem by moving the tools to a facility that wasn't qualified to make magazines.
I've been told before, "I want to carelessly load my magazines," which forces me to ask, "well, what else about handling your firearm do you want to be or, are currently, careless about?" No one has ever answered that question. So, what I heard in the video was a reasonably informed shooter address an issue in a rather tender way when it comes to the care that's taken in properly loading a rimfire magazine. So much so, that he mentioned a loading tool and instructions that accompanied the Aluminum magazines.
And, while I'll never be guilty of trying to convince anyone that Zermatt did anything other than a great job with their magazine, it came after a number of years of experience of the legacy magazine that started this whole thing, being in the marketplace.
MB
A lot of discussion about mags and their design. I've been running the original Vudoo polymer mags since I purchased my 360s when they were first offered. I have never had a problem with the mags feeding round nose ammo once I figured out how to load them to prevent rem lock. I only shoot benchrest and I'm deliberate in how I feed and extract a round. No jamming or broken bolt stops. I can see where problems can arise in other shooting disciplines that are really rough on equipment but I don't see it as a magazine flaw. Always looking for more consistent accuracy I've tried shimming the rear of the mag to stop movement when closing the bolt. Made no difference in feeding or accuracy. Tried single feeding each round. Wast of time. Bottom line, as far as benchrest shooting I wouldn't spend another nickel for a different mag over the original polymer design.
Prefer PALT versus thumb due to chance of debris getting in magazine and gumming up channels.
Quick Update:
V-Series Aluminum Magazines:
I'll have machined Aluminum first articles of the V-2210 next week! This initial effort for production is a milestone in the design, development and manufacturing process and, once parts are in-hand, the next steps begin and I'm closer to the LRIP, followed by flipping the larger switch into full-blown production. I'll be onsite for initial validation and will share photos with you guys as the process unfolds.
Also: For those continuing to reach out about the Pre-Order for the V2212 and V2215 Magazines, PRE-ORDER IS OFFICIALLY OPEN AS OF RIGHT NOW!!!!
The same process for pre-ordering the V2210 applies, and the V2212 and V2215 Pre-Order price is the same; shoot me an email ([email protected]) and I'll get you squared away. I'll announce Pre-Order for the V2217 at a later date.
X-Series Aluminum Magazines:
The X-Series (RimX Compatible) Magazines aren't far behind the V-Series and testing officially starts tomorrow. I appreciate all those that reached out to assist by way of offering up your RimX platform and time on the range. I'll provide details as the testing unfolds and keep everyone informed regarding availability.
Receiver Wrenches:
I have Gen 1, Right Hand Receiver Wrenches and will be shipping them, starting today. The remaining versions are through tumble and out for laser engraving and will be shipping week after next. For those waiting for the Gen 3, Right Hand, I appreciate your patience as I worked through a few things, but I had to ensure that what you're receiving is nothing less than the best.
Standard M5 and M5x Detachable Bottom Metal:
Manufacturing Engineering will begin after the LRIP for the V2210 Magazines.
V22 Parts: Single Screw Cocking Piece:
Gen 2/Gen 3, Single Screw Cocking Pieces are inbound and will be available as soon as they land. I'll post here when they're available, as I know many of you are dealing with the screws in the two-screw version loosening.
I've also received a lot of outreach about proper adjustment, which I have spoken to in the individual emails I've received.
*For the purposes of working with valid information:
**Do not follow the procedure outlined in the VGW video that uses a piece of paper to determine "firing pin location."** This procedure is wrong and references the wrong component and datums to determine proper adjustment.
Instead, bear-in-mind, when the adjustment is made, one is not positioning the firing pin, but instead, positioning the cocking piece relative to actual sear location. This adjustment is necessary because sear location varies across trigger brands and across triggers of the same brand. This is why the adjustment is necessary for optimal ignition tuning.
As soon as I have a few minutes (likely during X-Series testing at the range next week), I'll do a video outlining proper adjustment of the cocking piece.
Thank you to all that reach out and I appreciate this community being so responsive to the efforts that push things forward.
MB
V-Series Aluminum Magazines:
I'll have machined Aluminum first articles of the V-2210 next week! This initial effort for production is a milestone in the design, development and manufacturing process and, once parts are in-hand, the next steps begin and I'm closer to the LRIP, followed by flipping the larger switch into full-blown production. I'll be onsite for initial validation and will share photos with you guys as the process unfolds.
Also: For those continuing to reach out about the Pre-Order for the V2212 and V2215 Magazines, PRE-ORDER IS OFFICIALLY OPEN AS OF RIGHT NOW!!!!
The same process for pre-ordering the V2210 applies, and the V2212 and V2215 Pre-Order price is the same; shoot me an email ([email protected]) and I'll get you squared away. I'll announce Pre-Order for the V2217 at a later date.
X-Series Aluminum Magazines:
The X-Series (RimX Compatible) Magazines aren't far behind the V-Series and testing officially starts tomorrow. I appreciate all those that reached out to assist by way of offering up your RimX platform and time on the range. I'll provide details as the testing unfolds and keep everyone informed regarding availability.
Receiver Wrenches:
I have Gen 1, Right Hand Receiver Wrenches and will be shipping them, starting today. The remaining versions are through tumble and out for laser engraving and will be shipping week after next. For those waiting for the Gen 3, Right Hand, I appreciate your patience as I worked through a few things, but I had to ensure that what you're receiving is nothing less than the best.
Standard M5 and M5x Detachable Bottom Metal:
Manufacturing Engineering will begin after the LRIP for the V2210 Magazines.
V22 Parts: Single Screw Cocking Piece:
Gen 2/Gen 3, Single Screw Cocking Pieces are inbound and will be available as soon as they land. I'll post here when they're available, as I know many of you are dealing with the screws in the two-screw version loosening.
I've also received a lot of outreach about proper adjustment, which I have spoken to in the individual emails I've received.
*For the purposes of working with valid information:
**Do not follow the procedure outlined in the VGW video that uses a piece of paper to determine "firing pin location."** This procedure is wrong and references the wrong component and datums to determine proper adjustment.
Instead, bear-in-mind, when the adjustment is made, one is not positioning the firing pin, but instead, positioning the cocking piece relative to actual sear location. This adjustment is necessary because sear location varies across trigger brands and across triggers of the same brand. This is why the adjustment is necessary for optimal ignition tuning.
As soon as I have a few minutes (likely during X-Series testing at the range next week), I'll do a video outlining proper adjustment of the cocking piece.
Thank you to all that reach out and I appreciate this community being so responsive to the efforts that push things forward.
MB
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Mike I have a V22 gen 3 and the V22s gen 3 bothe withe the same TT diamond trigger and have been struggling with adjusting the firing pin on the V22s, currently 4 turns out after initial indexing which is about 3/4 of a turn, 20 lb spring. Center x works great, Tennex will have a few fail to fire. Checked the head space with the Whidden head space gauges look like the HS is .042-.043. What is the correct procedure for adjusting the firing pin?
Hey, Bill,
If you have a 64 tpi firing pin at 4.75 turns, you've moved the cocking piece just over .074", which seems excessive for optimal results unless your trigger is really jacked up. One of the reasons I need to do a video is due to the garbage info that came out of VGW.
Proper ignition is based on consistent energy management and how/where the energy is focused on the case rim and the trigger is a big part of this equation.
Are you having trouble with the bolt not closing smoothly?
MB
Hi Mike,
I have no problem closing the bolt, it is very smooth. I started out at 2&3/4 turns, 20lb spring. Laupa had no failure to fire , Eley Tennex had a few. Moved it out to 3, Ely few FTF, moved out 4. At 4 i shot two Eley X-shot targets with center-x and had the two best targets my V22s has ever shot. 250/250 x18 calculated group 9.03mm and 249/250 x18 group 9.79mm. I am going to go back to 2 turns, where it did contact the stop with nothing in the chamber and see if I can replicate my two targets. The bolt will not close on the .045 chamber gauge, .044 is tight, .043 is smooth , .042 is the same as nothing in the chamber.
HHhhhmmmm, interesting. When you say .044 is tight, does that mean it's tight and the bolt doesn't close or it's tight and the bolt closes?
VGW created the Eley ignition problems with looser headspace specs than what I handed to them, so your Eley ignition issue isn't likely associated with the fire control tuning.
MB
It's tight but the bolt with force will close. Closing on Lapua casings takes a little/slight force, feels right. The barrel has been replaced (MullerWorks) .900 x 26 by DI David Lott and he set the head space.
Ah, gotcha....well, this is awkward....
It should be impossible to close the bolt on a .044 gauge.
MB
Thanks Mike,Ah, gotcha....well, this is awkward....
It should be impossible to close the bolt on a .044 gauge.
MB
I kind of thought HS was a problem that is why I purchased the HS gauge set from Whidden. Will just have to use my Eley supplies in one of my many VQ guns, I love Volquartsen a great stand up company.
Well, it's a matter of how one defines "problem." I know DI does great work and you mentioned that closing on a .044 is "tight," so it's not a poor head spacing job. But for what you want to use the rifle for (shooting ammo that headspaces at .041 and ammo that headspaces at .043), the bolt should hit a brick wall when a .044 gauge is in the chamber.
MB
Many of you probably have seen this press release. Think I'll just post it for the record. I don't know how to verify it, but it seems that Vudoo is taking over Surgeon Rifles's former facility in Prague, OK.
FWIW.
dk
FWIW.
dk
As long as they're written in English, or worse case, Redneck American, I should have no issues reading them.But are you able to read your emails?
MB
Dunno what the tractor thread is, but if I've erred, by golly I'm sorry.
dk
dk
No sir, don't be sorry.The tractor thread is entitled, "Vudoo closed the doors...." It's a great place to learn about tractors, Mater, and occasional, Where's Waldo type posts alleging the latest about VGW.
MB
Yessir, probably the new guy, fresh out of the local gunsmithing school, wearing the red and white striped shirt.
MB
Mike,
Don't get me wrong the barrel Di did for me is light years better than what my original VG V22S could do. What ever he did works and that's all that matters. I sent David a email thanking him on how well it shoots. The Eley x-shot target I posted with Center X far exceeds what I expected. I really don't care that Eley ammo does not shoot well in my V22S , that's Eley's problem.
Perfect. From here, I want to help you get your fire control dialed in, so let's figure that out. I'll work on getting the video done asap.
MB
I responded to your post in the other thread also Sir.
I have a lot of trouble when trying to shoot Eley ammo as well. Headspace and/or the thinner rim of Eley ammo is the conclusion I've come to. I would probably wait on tuning your firing pin until you modify your firing pin tip.....this is going to change things and probably for the better. It will also let you make better use of the lighter springs.
The more you turn your firing pin out, the more relaxed the firing pin spring is. On the other end, if you don't turn the pin out far enough you take a chance on the cocking piece bottoming out inside the bolt tailpiece when fired.
I'm pretty new at this and these are just my thoughts and experiences on the subject. I'm sure there are others who know alot more than I.
Thanks BowChamp for the good advice. I was going to wait until I get a spare pin before modifying the tip. Skip the wait, going to modify my existing pin, turn the pin back to the right spot, then start the spring weight testing. Should keep me enjoyably busy for the rest of the summer.
For those that Pre-Ordered Magazines yesterday:
If you pre-ordered and have a Gmail email address, it's likely you've not received your invoice yet. This problem appeared yesterday, and I have informed my merchant services provider of the issue.
Those that have provided an alternate address has immediately received the invoice. So, if you've not received it and have an alternate non-Gmail address, I can easily edit the invoice and re-send.
Very sorry for the inconvenience.
MB
If you pre-ordered and have a Gmail email address, it's likely you've not received your invoice yet. This problem appeared yesterday, and I have informed my merchant services provider of the issue.
Those that have provided an alternate address has immediately received the invoice. So, if you've not received it and have an alternate non-Gmail address, I can easily edit the invoice and re-send.
Very sorry for the inconvenience.
MB
Just a note for all. Mike is having an issue with his account here and he can’t get signed in and we are waiting for some help from @alexj-12 so if you need to contact him just drop him an email at [email protected]
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