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Gunsmithing Electrical guy(s) question/help (please!)

LRI

LRI

Lance Criminal
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Mar 14, 2010
    6,314
    7,425
    52
    Sturgis, S. Dakota
    www.longriflesinc.com
    Some may recall earlier this year when the rumors were flying that I'd blown my face off after an action decided to disassemble itself very rapidly.


    So, we made some changes in the shop, and I'm changing it again.


    I've built a "device". It's a recoil absorbing vice assembly that allows us to fixture the B/A with the muzzle fully contained in the test barrel.


    What my intentions are now is to obtain a remote hand held momentary on/off switch with a master power (on/off toggle). Needs around a 15' cord I'm guessing. What I envision is a simple hand held cylinder with an aircraft style toggle cover, flip the cover, turn on the toggle and that powers up ol betty. Then when your ready to go bang, you press the button which activates a solenoid mounted to a bracket on a jewel trigger. (thinking Jewel only cause we've been using one that I dropped and broke the trigger shoe on about 5 years ago. Works great for testing here in the shop and they already have screw holes on the sides for attaching a simple bracket.)

    Figure a plain old trunk solenoid off an old GM car should work great with a pair of 9V's wired in a series circuit.


    My vice setup has a blast shield made of steel that clamshells over the action. With a 15' cord the "Guinea pig" running the thing can move behind a wall. Future orbital fractures and torn retinas avoided!


    Pretty excited about it and I know how to wire the thing up so it's "Chad Proof". Just don't know the terminology to go sourcing parts. Closest I've found is a remote starter switch from Matco, but it lacks the master power function. I did find a nice piece made in Germany, but that damn thing is $1200.00!

    I think I can get it figured out for about 10% of that... Even if I have to buy raw components and machine the handle from scratch. -which I may end up doing...


    Any help is appreciated.


    Thanks.



    Chad
     
    Last edited:
    Don't photographers use a very basic pneumatic actuator for this? I'm all for over complicating thigs, but....
     
    Look in the Grainger catalog. They have virtually any switch you could want. Sounds like you're looking for a couple rocker switches one on/off and one momentary on/off. Jegs unused to sell pretty cool safety switches for NO2 systems with the flip up covers. Just a thought if you are going for the baddass look
    Donald
     
    You could almost use a simple overhead door controller. Or a stop/stop remote combo. Or you could make your own. Your on/off would just be any switch in front of your controll. You could use a handy box with a blank cover, drill 2 3/8ths holes and put a toggle switch then a simple push button. Might need 4x4box instead.
     
    Buy a couple nice motor controll cabinet switches and emergency stop button. Put them on a 12x12 jbox cover and remote the bang switch to a handheld start button if you wanna get fancy.
     
    I think in that loud shop hes going to want industrial grade electrical conponents. While the rc remote/actuator is a good idea , its not production line safe. He needs physical safetys as well as maybe lit switches like an estop or motor control can stylr buttons. Chad send me exact specs I will build it and send it to you. Im at supply houses daily as im a ibew electrician.
     
    I made a similar device in high school for project, we sourced the parts from an rc car throttle, and wired it through a switch from a battery for the master switch and then to a secondary "trigger" switch to engage the trigger and fire the weapon. Ours was just for a BB gun trigger for the beginning stage of a Rube Goldberg type machines


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    I'm an instrument/controls tech at a power plant. I can get my hands on all kinds of switches and components. Send a pm of what you have for parts/plans and I can fill in the blanks if you want the help.
    Right on easy gravy I'm I BMW as well.

    TR
     
    FireTruckGuy said:
    Remote control throttle actuator off of any R/C car, plain, or boat. All battery powered and no wires.
    Click to expand...


    ...And subject to intermittent interference and being "shot down". I've been flying giant scale (30 and 40% 3D and USRA Pylon planes) with a $2500 JR 12X Pro Class radio, the who shebang; power distro boards, electronic servo balancing, brushless, high rest titanium gear HITECH servos, yada, yada. ($5,000 to $25,000 airplanes...) All it takes is one random hit from a stray signal and planes dig holes and guns goes bang when it shouldn't. The new radios do have a type of encryption to mitigate stray packets, fades, and brownouts, but there's no assurance it works all the time. Having flown this stuff for years now, alls it takes for a 2.4ghz radio to frizz out is a stray microwave tower hit. Something I discovered in a rather expensive manner when one of my bigger planes augered in because either a micro or cell tower was bouncing off a steel roof and creating a dead spot out here in the field across from my shop. 72mghz isn't even on the table. Just ancient archaic shit by today's modern transmitters. Go to any AMA sanctioned field and you still have the frequency boxes for the die hards, cheap skates, and old timers. The modern radios do get away with this by various forms of locked signals and encryption, but its not "trust your life to it" safe.


    That and servos have a really nasty habit of doing dumb shit when power supplies get low. I want it to either work, or fail due to a voltage problem. I want the power supply in the handle so that if I do have to change a battery I don't have to clear the gun while in the fixture. Especially since I'd have to squat down next to/below the receiver to access the battery box. I want the battery in the control/handle.


    No stray radio signals for me. This will be hard wired with shielded cable tolerant to any form of IR "static". My wife will be using this too. I want to keep her around as long as I can. Not to mention employees. Blowing myself up is one thing, having someone hurt as a result of my ignorance is no bueno.

    Having worked with explosives in the Corps (1371) it's been demonstrated just how easy it is to end up with a stump for a hand. stray, mysterious voltage sources are the devil! Not to mention stray radio. Every demo range in the world has strict frequency management policies due to electrical blasting caps potential to detonate with minuscule amounts of rouge voltages.


    I'm not building bombs, but the same principles apply.
     
    Last edited:
    I'm thinking a little air cylinder and a simple valve. And one of those yellow springy hoses that seem to snag on things in the shop you didn't even know you had.
     
    MYore said:
    I'm thinking a little air cylinder and a simple valve. And one of those yellow springy hoses that seem to snag on things in the shop you didn't even know you had.
    Click to expand...


    I don't like air. Solenoids get humidity/oil/funk in them and they freeze up. That and if I want to run this thing outside now I have to run another hose. It takes a good 10 minutes to pressure up my air in the morning. I have several 60 gallon reserve tanks all around the shop. I'm as impatient as it gets. When I want something I want it now.

    Electrical solenoid is the answer for me, but thanks for the idea.
     
    If I'm understanding you properly, why not rig up an electric/magnetic actuator (similar to coil tattoo gun) for the trigger. Use a toggle switch for the master power and a starter button like used in a race car? Wire it all up into a small handheld box that also holds the battery.
     
    Last edited:
    LongRifles said:
    I don't like air. Solenoids get humidity/oil/funk in them and they freeze up. That and if I want to run this thing outside now I have to run another hose. It takes a good 10 minutes to pressure up my air in the morning. I have several 60 gallon reserve tanks all around the shop. I'm as impatient as it gets. When I want something I want it now.

    Electrical solenoid is the answer for me, but thanks for the idea.
    Click to expand...

    It doesn't need to be an air solenoid. A couple turkey basters connected with some plastic hose should demonstrate the principal.
     
    I vote for the string idea. No need for cables. Just drill a 1/8" hole in your wall.
     
    I understand the impatient thing. However I would have to go pneumatic also. In my business we are outdoors in the elements, rain, humidity, ungodly heat... My stuff has to work. Air is used for its statistical fewer failures is harsh environments.
     
    http://www.amazon.com/ProMaster-NP10129-20ft-Shutter-Release/dp/B00023JE98

    21gaEQupFAL.jpg


    Leave the bulb off until you are in the safe zone if it makes you more comfy.
     
    Chad, check out cruise control actuators, get them at NAPA or Auto Zone, some of the older ones were graduated so that you would get a slow even push without breaking something off. Just increase and when it fires stop. 12v run it off deer feeder battery. Just another thought.
     
    Even better idea....... 1911 frame, install a micro switch on the backstrap saftey for master power, thumb saftey will do for a mechanical block/interlock on the micro sw on the trigger. Wanna take the saftey aspect a step further, gut a Hornady pistol lock box or some other such device that use's RFID chip technology and use that as your master. No chip within acouple of inches, i.e. on your wrist, no bang.

    But then again.......I'd say K.I.S.S........ just sayin......
     
    Chad,

    I tried to shoot you a PM, box is full. I have a few ideas for your project, your idea is a fairly simple one to build. A simple door lock actuator will do the trick and it can all be ran off of a small 12 volt battery, a trunk solenoid has far more torque than would be required. I can steer you in the right direction, or I can obtain parts and put one together for you. I also have access to 120 volt AC gear, which is basically the same process without the need for batteries. A home door bell solenoid may work as well, it uses a 24 volt transformer off of a 110 volt AC supply. The 12 volt idea is nice from the standpoint it can even be used in the field if needed.

    Kirk Roberts
    Roberts Tactical Precision
    [email protected]
    360-325-2638
     
    Chad,
    I have electrical engineers on hand and my control building facility. Feel free to give me a call I can give you a hand working something up. Jake 410-259-9380
     
    If I was building it I would use an automotive idle solenoid on the trigger. For the controller I would use a rocker switch with an illuminated on position for the main power on/off and a pushbutton to activate the solenoid.
     
    I was reading your post, and i thought i should try to give you a helpful response.
    The description of it leaves a bit for interpetation, and english is not my first language.
    I do currently work with automation, and electrical equipment for industry, so i know a thing or two about this.
    I do not know the big us suppliers for the different parts though so, so what i link might not have the best price for the items etc.


    I imagine what you want is a handle with a covered toggle switch for power on or off. And another switch for sending the signal to the solenoid for trigger actuation.

    Iam not sure i do imagine the exact mechanism you are describing, and finding it as a complete unit might be tricky.

    Using a solenoid to activate the trigger will work well if you position it properly, is a pretty fool proof method of doing it.
    If you are making the piece and mounting it up yourself the parts sourcing is rather easy.

    Personally not fond of batteries for anything that i am to rely on certainly not consumer grade
    types. If you want a push/pull solenoid,witch would be the most consistent method of pulling the trigger the 9 v batteries will have trouble doing that reliably anyway.

    And if your thinking about a cord already a junction box mounted on the unit would be the way i'd go.
    A small junction box with a 110v ? / 24v or12v din mounted converter, and a relay would be my choice,very simple yet reliable and wont cost too much.
    I went with 24 here, going with 12 V would open up to run it off a battery though so depends what
    you want?

    As for a on/off switch something like this?
    Toggle switch with safety cover

    TG-220 RACE READY Toggle Switch - "On-Off"-Ron Francis Wiring


    Fire switch, a good quality push button switch of whatever color with guarded side to avoid accidental release, 24 v.

    http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...luminated_LED_Pushbuttons_(Guarded)/HT8GDRAF3



    Cable of choice: 5x1.00 mm² ÖLFLEX® CLASSIC 110 CY, OD : 9,5 mm.
    Of however many feet you want.

    2x1.00 mm² ÖLFLEX® CLASSIC 110 CY from junction box to solenoid.

    3x2,5 mm² ÖLFLEX® CLASSIC 110 CY from junction box to wall socket.

    Very rugged industrial cable, that will take a beating and will hold up to movement very well.
    The shielding makes it though, and resistant to RF noise from VFD etc,witch i know is in the shop.
    Double isolated and resistant to oils/chemicals and heat.
    Lapp Online Catalog



    5x strain relief cable glands, tightened very well, with the threads you want, using the smallest diameter that will fit.
    IP 68 so they will keep any dust and fluids out of the control.
    And the gripping force is very good, and so is the plastic used in these, compared to most.
    Lapp Online Catalog: SKINTOP® FLEX: Spiral Strain Relief with NPT, PG& Metric Thread


    A quality push pull solenoid that you can attach to your broken trigger with a hole and a bolt.
    Just a bit akward to adjust in to give the right amount of movement.
    Using a linear pull/push, with the right amount of force will give you a much more controlled and repeatable trigger pull.

    http://www.amazon.com/Linear-Actuator-Electromagnet-Solenoid-JF-0530B/dp/B00JR59EAG#productDetails


    24 V power supply,85-260V ac suited for the solenoid linked.

    PSC-24-015 | 24VDC Power Supply: 15W, DIN rail mounting adaptor


    Quality 24 V solid state relay,that will last a longtime noramlly, din mountable.
    861SSR208-DD - Magnecraft / Schneider Electric - Solid State Relays | Galco Industrial Electronics


    A solid, and water/dust resistant,junction box to fit the electronics inside, and with placements for cable glands.
    SC060606


    Din rail for mounting the electronics.

    http://www.amazon.com/Integra-Rails-Screws-Nominal-Length/dp/B007EWUK5M/ref=pd_cp_hi_1



    A plug for whatever wall outlets you have.


    And aquality circuit breaker to connect the incoming wires to, and protect the rest of the equipment.
    With suiting characteristic and Ampage for the power supply.

    WMZS2C06


    Now what is missing is a nicely machined handle :D
    Make it ergonomic, thread it for the cable gland in the bottom.

    Make the top with a flat, and a small top plate you can mount your switches to, using some small machine screws/ bolts and threaded holes to mount the plate to the switch.
    Make the mounting holes for the switches and use some small gaskets to seal itforfluid and dust.
    leave some extra wire length inside for easy assembly/disassembly, and in case the gland would ever be damaged.

    If you like the layout, and the price is overcomeable, this will be a solid system,that will last for many many years.
    Is not dependent on batteries, have enough power to pull the trigger and do so in a controlled and repeatable manner,without using too much force.
    It is solid and dust/water resistant.

    I can take the time time to make a wiring diagram and find the proper components, that i know are of quality, will just take a day or two.


    Would need to know your voltage, connectors, amp of circuits used for connection, budget etc to make it all together.
    The list is still missing connectors and a few small things anyway, and a closed solenoid design would be better, just did not find the one i was looking for,right now.

    I suspect it might be more then you was looking for but,if you like the idea, send me a pm with the info and i will make a better set up for it in the weekend.
     
    Last edited:
    Powermac said:
    I was reading your post, and i thought i should try to give you a helpful response.
    The description of it leaves a bit for interpetation, and english is not my first language.
    I do currently work with automation, and electrical equipment for industry, so i know a thing or two about this.
    I do not know the big us suppliers for the different parts though so, so what i link might not have the best price for the items etc.


    I imagine what you want is a handle with a covered toggle switch for power on or off. And another switch for sending the signal to the solenoid for trigger actuation.

    Iam not sure i do imagine the exact mechanism you are describing, and finding it as a complete unit might be tricky.

    Using a solenoid to activate the trigger will work well if you position it properly, is a pretty fool proof method of doing it.
    If you are making the piece and mounting it up yourself the parts sourcing is rather easy.

    Personally not fond of batteries for anything that i am to rely on certainly not consumer grade
    types. If you want a push/pull solenoid,witch would be the most consistent method of pulling the trigger the 9 v batteries will have trouble doing that reliably anyway.

    And if your thinking about a cord already a junction box mounted on the unit would be the way i'd go.
    A small junction box with a 110v ? / 24v or12v din mounted converter, and a relay would be my choice,very simple yet reliable and wont cost too much.
    I went with 24 here, going with 12 V would open up to run it off a battery though so depends what
    you want?

    As for a on/off switch something like this?
    Toggle switch with safety cover

    TG-220 RACE READY Toggle Switch - "On-Off"-Ron Francis Wiring


    Fire switch, a good quality push button switch of whatever color with guarded side to avoid accidental release, 24 v.

    HT8GDRAF3



    Cable of choice: 5x1.00 mm² ÖLFLEX® CLASSIC 110 CY, OD : 9,5 mm.
    Of however many feet you want.

    2x1.00 mm² ÖLFLEX® CLASSIC 110 CY from junction box to solenoid.

    3x2,5 mm² ÖLFLEX® CLASSIC 110 CY from junction box to wall socket.

    Very rugged industrial cable, that will take a beating and will hold up to movement very well.
    The shielding makes it though, and resistant to RF noise from VFD etc,witch i know is in the shop.
    Double isolated and resistant to oils/chemicals and heat.
    Lapp Online Catalog



    5x strain relief cable glands, tightened very well, with the threads you want, using the smallest diameter that will fit.
    IP 68 so they will keep any dust and fluids out of the control.
    And the gripping force is very good, and so is the plastic used in these, compared to most.
    Lapp Online Catalog: SKINTOP® FLEX: Spiral Strain Relief with NPT, PG& Metric Thread


    A quality push pull solenoid that you can attach to your broken trigger with a hole and a bolt.
    Just a bit akward to adjust in to give the right amount of movement.
    Using a linear pull/push, with the right amount of force will give you a much more controlled and repeatable trigger pull.

    Amazon.com: DC 24V 5N Push Pull Linear Actuator Electromagnet Solenoid JF-0530B: Home Improvement


    24 V power supply,85-260V ac suited for the solenoid linked.

    PSC-24-015 | 24VDC Power Supply: 15W, DIN rail mounting adaptor


    Quality 24 V solid state relay,that will last a longtime noramlly, din mountable.
    861SSR208-DD - Magnecraft / Schneider Electric - Solid State Relays | Galco Industrial Electronics


    A solid, and water/dust resistant,junction box to fit the electronics inside, and with placements for cable glands.
    SC060606


    Din rail for mounting the electronics.

    http://www.amazon.com/Integra-Rails-Screws-Nominal-Length/dp/B007EWUK5M/ref=pd_cp_hi_1



    A plug for whatever wall outlets you have.


    And aquality circuit breaker to connect the incoming wires to, and protect the rest of the equipment.
    With suiting characteristic and Ampage for the power supply.

    WMZS2C06


    Now what is missing is a nicely machined handle :D
    Make it ergonomic, thread it for the cable gland in the bottom.

    Make the top with a flat, and a small top plate you can mount your switches to, using some small machine screws/ bolts and threaded holes to mount the plate to the switch.
    Make the mounting holes for the switches and use some small gaskets to seal itforfluid and dust.
    leave some extra wire length inside for easy assembly/disassembly, and in case the gland would ever be damaged.

    If you like the layout, and the price is overcomeable, this will be a solid system,that will last for many many years.
    Is not dependent on batteries, have enough power to pull the trigger and do so in a controlled and repeatable manner,without using too much force.
    It is solid and dust/water resistant.

    I can take the time time to make a wiring diagram and find the proper components, that i know are of quality, will just take a day or two.


    Would need to know your voltage, connectors, amp of circuits used for connection, budget etc to make it all together.
    The list is still missing connectors and a few small things anyway, and a closed solenoid design would be better, just did not find the one i was looking for,right now.

    I suspect it might be more then you was looking for but,if you like the idea, send me a pm with the info and i will make a better set up for it in the weekend.
    Click to expand...




    I think this is exactly what I was looking for. REALLY appreciate the help.


    This site is great!


    C.
     
    Ok, so this is what I got.

    Clam shell vice with a permanent swivel nut/bolt. (still gotta get a big washer) Pair of slider tubes to fit different barrel lengths. (clutched, not pinned so that it doesn't peen over time from recoil.) - fitted the tubes with sleeves that are lined with polymer (pvc fuel line) to absorb a little shock from recoil. Not a big deal but figured it would help with the welds over the next 30 years or so. Prolly have to replace the tubing every once in awhile, but that's easy enough to do.

    Interchangeable collect blocks made from sugar maple. recoil lug insert pressed into the lower plate and a mirrored lug slot in the lower block.

    Maple faceplate liner for the trap so that we don't mark stuff up. Internal baffles installed into the tube for the 1st 12" so that we don't contaminate the cerakote/muzzle with dust. Made the baffles from conveyor belt material used in the Gillette coal minds.

    DSC_0010.jpg


    DSC_0011-2.jpg


    DSC_0014.jpg


    DSC_0013-1.jpg


    DSC_0012-1.jpg
     
    C, Looks good, the only thing i would add is some kind of padded catch thing under it, if you were to have butter fingers like i do, the action would not hit the floor. Just a thought and great machining as always. I vote for a bitchen engraved washer
     
    Last edited:
    Just glad to be able to help, having rain and 60 mph wind now so not much else to do anyways.
    The setup looks good.
    Will send you a PM tomorrow with a proper shopping list and some wiring diagrams.
     
    Last edited:
    Have you considered an electric shifter solenoid like is used in drag cars? Send it 12v via a switch and it will actuate the solenoid, pulling the trigger.
     
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