Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

[aquinas]

I'm in a pickle. I never loaded for .223 before but have everything except the bushings.

Here's the problem. To figure out the right size bushing, measure a loaded round and subtract the desired constriction plus .001 for springback. I don't have a loaded round to measure and can't load one until I get a bushing!

Brass will be LC '09 and '11.

Any suggestions on getting me close so I don't wind up buying half a dozen bushings to figure it out?

 

[Clark]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

.246" bushing in S die

 

[aquinas]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

Thanks amigo

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .246" bushing in S die </div></div>

In ARs I'm liking the .245" busing, but it's something I don't go to bed at night pondering too much.

Chris

 

[John L]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .246" bushing in S die </div></div>
I use the same size. Never any setback. You can purchase the steel ones then when you find the proper size buy the Ti one.

 

[aquinas]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

Thanks all of you...or is it youz?

I measured the neck wall thickness and actually came up with .246 and said, nahhh...I better ask!

That confirms it...da bushing's on the way.

 

[bobke]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

i'm just trying to figure out the same thing and have accumulated 3 bushings, .248/.246/.245. i'm heading to the range shortly to determine which is best, .245 or .246, but had good results with .246 and 75gr hornady's with 24.0 rl15 and fed 205m primers.
couple of things to note, in my first experience with 's' dies. the nose of the bullet seating stem wants to pull the this particular bullet out, so i lapped it out a bit to create a bit of release, but with .248 bushing, there still wasn't adequate neck tension, so went to .246, with pretty good potential. am trying .245 today, in direct comparison to .246, all else being the same, but it's unfired brass, so that may affect result.
in sizing once fired brass, neither bushing would yield .246 or .245, as the expander button once withdrawn would expand neck to .247, regardless of bushing, so that's next on list for review. i took that decapping pin button off and tried the other that comes with dieset, but it resulted in too tight a fit to get a primer pocket swaging tool pilot in, so went back to std button. i'm thinking i'll polish it down to yield a .245 diameter, but don't want to modify too many things at once without being able to tie a result to same.
should have something to offer in a bit on shooting difference on two button sizes. shooting in 1/7 18" noveske.

 

[bobke]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

a bit of feedback from shooting today. brand new rp brass, swaged pockets/reamed to depth/trimmed 1.275/both .246 and .245 bushings. 75gr hornady bthp, 24.0 RL15, fed 205m primers. low 90's, not certain of humidity, but texas is dry as a bone. 12-15mph steady fm ssw, higher as the day went on.
.246 bushing yields 2553 avg/63es/26sd
.245 bushing yields 2556 avg/49es/18sd and second set at 2547/20es/7sd
both shot almost identical 10 shot groups a hair over an inch at 100yds.

know this doesn't present any definitive conclusion, but based on more consistent results with .245 bushing, i'll go with it. going to try reducing the diameter of decapping pin button a half 1000th at a time to see what effect it has, as it's .247 and opens diameter up about .002 or so when withdrawing case from bushing die, regardless of bushing chosen.

as a point of reference, shot at same time, black hills 77gr bthp match was 2627 avg/46es/18sd. shot around .9 moa at 100yds.

 

[aquinas]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

Controlling neck tension isn't about accuracy...it's about brass life. You actually noticed this in your test. It didn't really show up on paper.

 

[aquinas]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robert neuser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">going to try reducing the diameter of decapping pin button a half 1000th at a time to see what effect it has, as it's .247 and opens diameter up about .002 or so when withdrawing case from bushing die, regardless of bushing chosen.

</div></div>

You mean the expander ball? Have you tried polishing it? That helps...but I understand your situtaion and that may not accomplish what you are trying to do. You could run without the expander altogether. Have to watch your necks closely, though.

 

[bobke]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

himaster-
thx. since expander ball is attached to decapping pin retention 'nut', that's what i'll work with, but small amounts at a time. using the alternate cap for same that comes with dieset left the unexpanded neck inside diameter too tight to fit stem on rcbs primer pocket swaging die, so had to go back to expander cap/nut to be able to swage primer pockets.

sure don't want to overwork brass, but as i'm pushing overall length so close to magazine length, i'm looking for adequate neck tension to hold it all in place, absent the use of a crimping die to do so. i'll keep playing with the process til i get it figured out, and loads are shooting more consistently with proper neck tension, from a purely numbers point of view-sd/es.

need to work with some others powders to expand my universe a bit, as it's only been RL15 and 75gr hornady's to date, but with encouraging accuracy, yet not the velocity i'd like to see. see no pressure signs, so have some room to work with, but varget and others may yield what i'm aiming for. thx for feedback.

 

[gvanhyning]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

I'm not sure what type of dies you're using but I use Redding and the dies come with a decapping pin lock collar that screws on in place of the expander ball. Unless I'm turning necks or trimming to length, I remove the expander.

 

[John L]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

I have to agree with Greg. If your going to run a bushing die get rid of the expander. I do not understand swaging the primer pockets on new R-P brass. I guess I am just missing something in the description

 

[John L]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

Robert,
Why are you swaging the primer pocket on new brass, or did I just miss something?

 

[bobke]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

they are brand new redding 's' dies. have loaded and shot the new rp brass, but also a hundred or so federal and pmc once fired, as well. probably unnecessarily and severely anal about this stuff, but i'm new to 223 and the noveske, and am attempting to find loads that shoot well at the front end, so i can load up on the right components and then get to just shooting same load, most all of the time.

i'm spending more time at the bench now, and will load and go later, but trying to figure out die setups, etc for both max accuracy and 100% function. and you all are correct, there was no good reason to swaging pockets, other than just to put every piece of brass in same stage of prep as the others while working on accuracy loads, rather than just training type fodder.

i've loaded for bolt rifles in many calibers for years, never for an auto firing mil spec rounds. i'll get up the learning curve quickly and dump what's not critical to function, but also don't shoot much factory ammo under normal circumstances and reliable function is critical for me. same with my 45 i carry for both idpa and personal use-i don't shoot factory and choose to rely on good loading practice, even for defensive purposes.

 

[John L]

Re: Help on Bushing size for .223 Full Length S die

Robert,
Here is where I am going with my questions. Are you swaging the primer pockets or chamfering the flash hole? If you need to get a pilot in the neck do it before you size the cases and you should have no trouble. It sounds like your loading for an AR 15. Don't get to hung up on some of the small stuff as it really does not matter for a semi auto. I have been shooting a lot of ammo through my AR's over the years and have found no difference in uniforming the primer pockets and chamfering the flash holes. It kinda gets lost in the noise if you get my meaning. Best thing you can do for the accuracy of your gun is to spend more time at the range and less at the bench.