High speed chase.

[E. Bryant]

Do tell us what problem drive by wire fixes for the consumer

Fly by wire (when a computer has the authority to modify the command inputs from a human) hasn't worked out very well for Airbus and Boeing

Placing the throttle under direct authority of the ECM reduces the chance of hung throttle (no cable friction), improves idle control stability, allows the engine torque to be reduced during shifts, and provides a "torque follower" throttle algorithm that improves the driver's perception of throttle linearity. Brake-by-wire and steer-by-wire basically don't exist (other than the SBW system in the Infinity Q50, which has a clutch that disconnects the wheel from the steering box in certain conditions). Instead, traditional vacuum brake boosters are either being augmented by electronics or replaced outright by electromechanical pedal assist. Combined with increased reliance on the electronic brake controller to provide features such as continuously-variable brake proportioning, it's possible to take the idea of ABS (optimizing brake force at each contact patch during threshold braking events) and apply it to everyday driving.

The Accord which you love so much gets a substantial amount of its performance and refinement from these controls. This stuff is honestly safer and more reliable than older mechanical systems. Doesn't much matter, to be honest; exceedingly few crashes are caused by any sort of equipment failure. Bitch-slapping your nearest distracted driver is a far better use of time than continued participation in this dialogue.

Fly-by-wire has worked great for aircraft. The issues experienced by AF447 were induced by pilot error (excessive reliance upon automation). The 737 MAX is actually an old-fashioned cable-over-hydraulic system; the problem I'm guessing to which you refer actually came from slapping band-aids on a mechanical system. An actual by-wire system likely would not have exhibited that fault. Nice job proving my point

 

[E. Bryant]

Thats your super educated reply? You sound like a fink who found out he is busted... trying to sound smarter and divert the subject from you being a part of the machine that is here to put the power in the dealers hands only. Im a mechanic that builds cars, you probably drive some anal bead looking electric or prius. Go ahead though, i like it when people underestimate me.

I'm one of the good guys in the industry, dipshit.

Nah, on second thought, you're right - I'm just a closeted treehugger.

All 'dem wires must mean that my latest project is an EV, right? Probably should rip out that junk and install a SBC with a Quadrajet and HEI, and then bitch when I can't even get that level of complexity to run correctly.

 

[308pirate]

Placing the throttle under direct authority of the ECM reduces the chance of hung throttle (no cable friction), improves idle control stability, allows the engine torque to be reduced during shifts, and provides a "torque follower" throttle algorithm that improves the driver's perception of throttle linearity. Brake-by-wire and steer-by-wire basically don't exist (other than the SBW system in the Infinity Q50, which has a clutch that disconnects the wheel from the steering box in certain conditions). Instead, traditional vacuum brake boosters are either being augmented by electronics or replaced outright by electromechanical pedal assist. Combined with increased reliance on the electronic brake controller to provide features such as continuously-variable brake proportioning, it's possible to take the idea of ABS (optimizing brake force at each contact patch during threshold braking events) and apply it to everyday driving.

The Accord which you love so much gets a substantial amount of its performance and refinement from these controls. This stuff is honestly safer and more reliable than older mechanical systems. Doesn't much matter, to be honest; exceedingly few crashes are caused by any sort of equipment failure. Bitch-slapping your nearest distracted driver is a far better use of time than continued participation in this dialogue.

Fly-by-wire has worked great for aircraft. The issues experienced by AF447 were induced by pilot error (excessive reliance upon automation). The 737 MAX is actually an old-fashioned cable-over-hydraulic system; the problem I'm guessing to which you refer actually came from slapping band-aids on a mechanical system. An actual by-wire system likely would not have exhibited that fault. Nice job proving my point

Basically electronics can mask over poor powertrain and chassis engineering and provide liability cover for automakers. Got it.

If you think AF 447 is the only significant loss due to FBW controls, there's nothing to discuss. Suffice it to say, there's more of it out there and for sure you don't understand all the issues that led to AF 447's loss.

Or maybe your expertise extends to stall recovery? I didn't know that.

 

[TurboTrout]

I wouldn’t go trying to compare fly by wire throttle in a car to a fly by wire aircraft, two very different animals.

 

[E. Bryant]

Basically electronics can mask over poor powertrain and chassis engineering and provide liability cover for automakers. Got it.

If you think AF 447 is the only significant loss due to FBW controls, there's nothing to discuss. Suffice it to say, there's more of it out there and for sure you don't understand all the issues that led to AF 447's loss.

Or maybe your expertise extends to stall recovery? I didn't know that.

Yep, I guess that's why Honda - and ever other automaker on the planet - uses by-wire technology

List the accidents that you're thinking of, and we maybe can have an intelligent conversation. I'm not a mind-reader. Or go find someone else's time to waste with your vague ranting. I hear that Texasflyer is game. And so is his mom.

 

[TurboTrout]

Yep, I guess that's why Honda - and ever other automaker on the planet - uses by-wire technology

List the accidents that you're thinking of, and we maybe can have an intelligent conversation. I'm not a mind-reader. Or go find someone else's time to waste with your vague ranting. I hear that Texasflyer is game. And so is his mom.

mostly for traction control, ie the computer choosing to reduce throttle, only other way to do it with a mechanical
Throttle is via fuel or spark, both no where near as smooth or fast as the computer overriding the pedal.

Very good for immigrants, children and housewives. Not so much for people who are car people and know how to drive.

 

[Texasflyer]

Yep, I guess that's why Honda - and ever other automaker on the planet - uses by-wire technology

List the accidents that you're thinking of, and we maybe can have an intelligent conversation. I'm not a mind-reader. Or go find someone else's time to waste with your vague ranting. I hear that Texasflyer is game. And so is his mom.

You are just some shop tech, a nobody in the industry acting like you know something. I can tell from your pic. And a wet behind the ears one too. All ya got is lame mom jokes from highschool still tech boy, get your ass back to changing oil before you get fired.

 

[308pirate]

Yep, I guess that's why Honda - and ever other automaker on the planet - uses by-wire technology

List the accidents that you're thinking of, and we maybe can have an intelligent conversation. I'm not a mind-reader. Or go find someone else's time to waste with your vague ranting. I hear that Texasflyer is game. And so is his mom.

Everyone relies more and more on electronics to control cars to control costs, meet nanny state regulations, and reduce liability from driver error. There's little to no upside for the consumer who knows how to drive. In that I agree with @TurboTrout

 

[Tchitcherine]

 

[Texasflyer]

Fly by wire is great, trust us.

 

[EddieNFL]

LE should care, and no reason to make a innocent victim out of those commiting non-violent crimes running from cops in a car.

I think you statement contradicts itself. Regardless of what transpired before the chase, innocent went out the exhaust pipe as soon as they hit WOT.










o

 

[Fig]

so you don’t pay income take eh?

Seeing you’re writing this and not in jail, ether you do, you’re just fluffing your chest while handing over your labors.

I’ve said a few times on here I’m against income tax.

But it is what the masses consider contributing to the nation, I’ve also done a good bit of volunteer work, and worked in fields that made a direct impact for folks in my area.

But yeah, this is fun, go on with how I’m a “commie” but I am for limited government and read the bill of rights how it’s written, I’d love to see the mental gymnastics to get that square peg into the round hole.

True, but I also don't say I "gave" or I'm contributing, because I'm not. Yes, I am the victim of legalized theft, but that doesn't make me virtuous. When I actually give something to someone uncoerced I could then point to that as being charitable, yet, if I did that I would be bereft of equally important virtues. That's the trouble with virtue signaling. It isn't possible unless they aren't really virtues. None are good. No not one.

 

[TurboTrout]

True, but I also don't say I "gave" or I'm contributing, because I'm not. Yes, I am the victim of legalized theft, but that doesn't make me virtuous. When I actually give something to someone uncoerced I could then point to that as being charitable, yet, if I did that I would be bereft of equally important virtues. That's the trouble with virtue signaling. It isn't possible unless they aren't really virtues. None are good. No not one.

Didn’t mean to virtue signal, and I’m not the type to do that, personally I think if covid would have killed off all the fat people and statist that would have been great, I also wish it would have made a much bigger dent in china.

That said, I still don’t low IQ high ego cops chasing a low IQ moron who took off because of some dumb drug thing or a expired license or whatever, only to crash into some random person and then play bumper cars with the police cars I over paid for. I’m odd, I’m more likely to thank a small business owner for his service than a cop or person who got a job in the modern military (this does not apply to older pre Vietnam vets).

I also think removing qualified immunity and first taking damages out of the offending officers personal assets, next the department pension fund, well before the legal findings ever found their way into the pockets of the tax payers, that would fix much of these issues we see.

“Trout, How do you write cops so well”

(In my best Jack voice)

“I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.”

 

[Fig]

I think they should catch anyone who runs even if it means a dangerous chase and violence. I think they ought to put anyone who resists in the hospital, and anyone who "wins" resisting in the morgue. We are not talking about transgressing citizens. We are talking about criminals. If a cop sees all citizens as criminals they should be immediately removed from the force, and barred from serving anywhere else.

If this defund the police bullshit has it's way you are going to change your tune fast. The Democrats have created a permanent underclass with their welfare state, and now they mean to unleash it on the rest of the American people fully justified via racism (antiracism IS the old racism).

You can have all the opinions you want, but they're going to be changing shortly. We have plenty of cops and corrections officers on the Hide. I would bet that to a man they will tell you that if you give a criminal an inch they will take a mile. Human nature being what it is the reason this shit goes on is because they know they can get away with it. If the inevitable result of fighting the police was the hospital and eating through a tube this shit would stop.

 

[TurboTrout]

I think they should catch anyone who runs even if it means a dangerous chase and violence. I think they ought to put anyone who resists in the hospital, and anyone who "wins" resisting in the morgue. We are not talking about transgressing citizens. We are talking about criminals. If a cop sees all citizens as criminals they should be immediately removed from the force, and barred from serving anywhere else.

If this defund the police bullshit has it's way you are going to change your tune fast. The Democrats have created a permanent underclass with their welfare state, and now they mean to unleash it on the rest of the American people fully justified via racism (antiracism IS the old racism).

You can have all the opinions you want, but they're going to be changing shortly. We have plenty of cops and corrections officers on the Hide. I would bet that to a man they will tell you that if you give a criminal an inch they will take a mile. Human nature being what it is the reason this shit goes on is because they know they can get away with it. If the inevitable result of fighting the police was the hospital and eating through a tube this shit would stop.

Have you considered moving to a country that shares your “values”?

“Burundi
Extrajudicial killings and death squads are common in Burundi.

Democratic Republic of the Congo​

Extrajudicial killings and death squads are common in Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Egypt​

Extrajudicial killings and death squads are common in Egypt.

Eritrea​

The 2019 Universal Periodic Review of the United Nations Human Rights Council found that in 2016, Eritrean authorities committed extrajudicial killings, in the context of a "persistent, widespread and systematic attack against the civilian population" since 1991, including "the crimes of enslavement, imprisonment, enforced disappearance, torture, other inhumane acts, persecution, rape and murder".

Ethiopia​

See also: War crimes in the Tigray War
Extrajudicial killings and death squads are common in Ethiopia.

Ivory Coast​

Extrajudicial killings and death squads are common in the Ivory Coast.

Kenya​

Extrajudicial executions are common in informal settlements in Kenya.Killings are also common in Northern Kenya under the guise of counter-terrorism operations.

Libya​

Extrajudicial killings and death squads are common in Libya.“



You know we have a very liberal statist regime right now, iffy courts, and police who have proven they’ll do anything the “higher ups” say to do, as witnessed with “gun control” and the covid “lock downs”.

Something about
there by the grace of god go I.

 

[Fig]

It is you who doesn't understand our system of justice. All the cops can do is arrest you. Once they do that all their power stops. "You are under arrest", is their absolute limit. But to diminish that limit, or to restrict it is to diminish all our freedoms and liberty, because the rule of law is what grants liberty. The police only arrest, and the DA charges, but ultimately there is no justice on the streets, nor can there be.

Only a complete fucking idiot thinks anarchy=liberty. It does not. Anarchy=totalitarianism of the strong ruling the weak, and I gaurenfuckingtee all those Aunt Tiffa "anarchists" are not the strong. Strong and respected cops are what promotes liberty. Weak and restrained cops promotes anarchy and injustice.

These are not contradictory concepts unless you have the depth of a second grader.

 

[TurboTrout]

It is you who doesn't understand our system of justice. All the cops can do is arrest you. Once they do that all their power stops. "You are under arrest", is their absolute limit. But to diminish that limit, or to restrict it is to diminish all our freedoms and liberty, because the rule of law is what grants liberty. The police only arrest, and the DA charges, but ultimately there is no justice on the streets, nor can there be.

Only a complete fucking idiot thinks anarchy=liberty. It does not. Anarchy=totalitarianism of the strong ruling the weak, and I gaurenfuckingtee all those Aunt Tiffa "anarchists" are not the strong. Strong and respected cops are what promotes liberty. Weak and restrained cops promotes anarchy and injustice.

These are not contradictory concepts unless you have the depth of a second grader.

As the big guy said “come on man!”

Your mind can’t be that simple and linear, can it?

There is a tiny bit of wiggle room between not chasing and trying to crash a guy for a traffic infraction, ripping through neighborhoods and red-lights and stop signs, and anarchist dystopia.
If you can use a computer and have enough skills that you can afford a precision rifle, I’d wager you have the mental firepower to understand that.

 

[Fig]

I also understand that our legal system, and just about our entire society, works on precedent. Being an absolutist on the ground in law enforcement means you can afford to be more lenient elsewhere, but being lackadaisical on the ground affords you no room to do justice once it is in the realm of the courts.

I prefer the presumption of innocence and the possibility of the guilty going free rather than imprisoning an innocent man. Again, the time for all that is in the courts, not on the street where there is no time, and the judgments have to be made on the fly. If you run from the police for a traffic violation then you are too fucking stupid to be allowed to live in our society. What is your excuse for fighting the police and resisting arrest? Have you run from the cops before? Would you?

Are you still in school?

 

[NoDopes]

 

[TurboTrout]

I also understand that our legal system, and just about our entire society, works on precedent. Being an absolutist on the ground in law enforcement means you can afford to be more lenient elsewhere, but being lackadaisical on the ground affords you no room to do justice once it is in the realm of the courts.

I prefer the presumption of innocence and the possibility of the guilty going free rather than imprisoning an innocent man. Again, the time for all that is in the courts, not on the street where there is no time, and the judgments have to be made on the fly. If you run from the police for a traffic violation then you are too fucking stupid to be allowed to live in our society. What is your excuse for fighting the police and resisting arrest? Have you run from the cops before? Would you?

Are you still in school?

Nope, well into my career

Been a few decades since I was in school, I do go back and pick up a certificate here and there because I have the money and time, and keeping the mind sharp and not being a one trick pony is good

With license plates, cameras everywhere the age of the database, and how dumb most criminals are, I really don’t see the issue with catching them later, early morning since they probably don’t have a job, vs driving like a damn fool through my neighborhood, or playing Iraq and shooting the place up over pissant stuff.

Again if cops were as accountable as I am for each of their rounds fired, or damage from/to their cars, think we wouldn’t have these discussions.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I also understand that our legal system, and just about our entire society, works on precedent. Being an absolutist on the ground in law enforcement means you can afford to be more lenient elsewhere, but being lackadaisical on the ground affords you no room to do justice once it is in the realm of the courts.

I prefer the presumption of innocence and the possibility of the guilty going free rather than imprisoning an innocent man. Again, the time for all that is in the courts, not on the street where there is no time, and the judgments have to be made on the fly. If you run from the police for a traffic violation then you are too fucking stupid to be allowed to live in our society. What is your excuse for fighting the police and resisting arrest? Have you run from the cops before? Would you?

Are you still in school?

You seem to place great faith in people being able to get "Justice" in the courts and the police not being crooks who won't think twice about planting drugs on you if they can't find any excuse to get you, or trumping up a bunch of charges, or simply enjoying using the "process" to torture, punish and intimidate you.

Plenty of recent events have shown that you can't count on getting any justice or fair treatment.

In Texas a police officer was caught on camera multiple times planting drugs during car stops so he could arrest people.
The Police Chief was angry that somebody in the DA's office had dared to watch camera footage...

 

[NoDopes]

That's why I'm a big fan on require cameras for all charges/interactions. There was a case a few years ago in Dallas... cop murdered a kid (mentally unstable).. and said he lunged at him with a knife. Few days later, neighbor gave his security camera footage that showed the kid never moved and just had the knife at his side, quite a distance away from the cop.
Dallas chief of police response to this? Change policy for any shooting incidents to require a 3 day delay before official police filing!!!!! OMG.

 

[TurboTrout]

That's why I'm a big fan on require cameras for all charges/interactions. There was a case a few years ago in Dallas... cop murdered a kid (mentally unstable).. and said he lunged at him with a knife. Few days later, neighbor gave his security camera footage that showed the kid never moved and just had the knife at his side, quite a distance away from the cop.
Dallas chief of police response to this? Change policy for any shooting incidents to require a 3 day delay before official police filing!!!!! OMG.

Add to that the cameras automatically turning on when they take the call, and not being able to be turned off audio or video. Seen quite a few videos when cops turn the audio off and have a little talk, I’m sure that conversation was 100% on the up and up lol

 

[Fig]

Case studies make poor policy. You want to project a few criminal incidents across all cops? This shit started with a fake. Michael Brown was a thug who tried to murder an officer. Most of the shit is fake. The real shot is statistically insignificant.

However, is the media has worked its magic this much so marksmen don’t trust the police anymore, we are truly fucked as a nation, and you’re going to get everything you deserve. Don’t come crying to me when you’re a victim either. I will tell you to go fuck yourself. I can move to a gated community and afford private security, or gate mine (already been discussed). Can you?

I think you’re gonna get your chaos, and all these fucktard leftist ideas. Wana bet how fast there are no “mental health professionals” once they start getting the calls instead of the cops?

 

[E. Bryant]

mostly for traction control, ie the computer choosing to reduce throttle, only other way to do it with a mechanical
Throttle is via fuel or spark, both no where near as smooth or fast as the computer overriding the pedal.

Very good for immigrants, children and housewives. Not so much for people who are car people and know how to drive.

Actually, modulating torque output via spark advance is the preferred method - it's way faster than changing the throttle blade opening. If you get into the details of modern ECU code, you'll see that everything from idle speed control to RPM limiters to torque modulation during shifts and traction control events relies pretty heavily on changing spark advance from MBT (maximum best torque). A well-tuned ear can hear this - it's quite distinctive (especially with long tubes and an open exhaust).

Now, there are limits to how long any spark retard can happen before EGT (exhaust gas temperature) increases to the point where the exhaust valves and cats are endangered, and so the ECU won't pull timing for indefinite periods (this is particularly true in forced-induction applications where the timing at full cylinder filling is already substantially less than MBT). So the throttle can get slapped close in certain circumstances. But it's usually not the preferred approach.

The single biggest reason for implementing TBW/ETC is to implement "torque follower" schemes. One might intuitively assume that the throttle blade angle simply follows the pedal travel, but most modern vehicles use the pedal position to establish a target engine output torque, and then the throttle blade angle is adjusted to provide a cylinder fill volume. It works quite well.

You are just some shop tech, a nobody in the industry acting like you know something. I can tell from your pic. And a wet behind the ears one too. All ya got is lame mom jokes from highschool still tech boy, get your ass back to changing oil before you get fired.

If you want to show your ass with each point, hey, it's your choice.

Everyone relies more and more on electronics to control cars to control costs, meet nanny state regulations, and reduce liability from driver error. There's little to no upside for the consumer who knows how to drive. In that I agree with @TurboTrout

So, then you are maintaining your position that Honda implements electronic controls to "mask over poor powertrain and chassis engineering"? I just want to make sure I'm clear on this point.

Thankfully, GM sure did a hell of a good job masking the poor powertrain and chassis engineering on my Camaro. Can't even tell that the car is a gigantic piece of shit when pulling 1.3gs at triple digits.



The electronic throttle control and electric power steering assist on my ZL1 works superbly, and I have zero interest in going back to older tech.

 

[308pirate]

So, then you are maintaining your position that Honda implements electronic controls to "mask over poor powertrain and chassis engineering"? I just want to make sure I'm clear on this point.

I'm sure those systems have been used by most carmakers to band aid hardware issues in any number of programs.

Thankfully, GM sure did a hell of a good job masking the poor powertrain and chassis engineering on my Camaro. Can't even tell that the car is a gigantic piece of shit when pulling 1.3gs at triple digits.

The electronic throttle control and electric power steering assist on my ZL1 works superbly, and I have zero interest in going back to older tech.

That's your choice. I'm sure not everyone shares it.

One of the reasons I chose a manual transmission was because I decide when shifts happen, not the PCM/TCM.

On the plus side, ECMs on turbocharged cars like mine make it stupid easy to get more power and torque that's been choked off. So there's that.....

 

[918v]

Nope, well into my career

Been a few decades since I was in school, I do go back and pick up a certificate here and there because I have the money and time, and keeping the mind sharp and not being a one trick pony is good

With license plates, cameras everywhere the age of the database, and how dumb most criminals are, I really don’t see the issue with catching them later, early morning since they probably don’t have a job, vs driving like a damn fool through my neighborhood, or playing Iraq and shooting the place up over pissant stuff.

Again if cops were as accountable as I am for each of their rounds fired, or damage from/to their cars, think we wouldn’t have these discussions.

They are accountable and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[TurboTrout]

They are accountable and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Oh course I don’t, I know no one who’s not a sympathetic cop can dare judge our heroes in blue lol

 

[TurboTrout]

Case studies make poor policy. You want to project a few criminal incidents across all cops? This shit started with a fake. Michael Brown was a thug who tried to murder an officer. Most of the shit is fake. The real shot is statistically insignificant.

However, is the media has worked its magic this much so marksmen don’t trust the police anymore, we are truly fucked as a nation, and you’re going to get everything you deserve. Don’t come crying to me when you’re a victim either. I will tell you to go fuck yourself. I can move to a gated community and afford private security, or gate mine (already been discussed). Can you?

I think you’re gonna get your chaos, and all these fucktard leftist ideas. Wana bet how fast there are no “mental health professionals” once they start getting the calls instead of the cops?

Funny how I don’t much care for police and I don’t watch TV.

I saw plenty of police talk a big game and then enforce gun control, enforce covid “lock downs” destroying lives and the economy, drive like fools, heck in my area I’ve seen police flick their lights on just to run a stop light, then park and idle with the AC on behind a tree or something, seen them refuse to show up to document a traffic accident, seen their joke of a response time, I even had one point a gun at a friend who was helping me move INTO a house... the little rocket scientist missed the day in police school where they teach you thieves TAKE things from a home, they don’t PUT THINGS INTO the home lol

That’s just a off the cuff, but cops earned my disrespect, they worked very hard for it over the years.

Not all cops are bad, but a majority are, based on my experience I just presume they are a POS until proven otherwise, and frankly there are very few things I’d call them for, and I have a policy of NEVER talking to them and recording any interaction with them.

 

[Fig]

I hope they defunct the fuck out of them where you live and leave retards like you on your own.

 

[TurboTrout]

I hope they defunct the fuck out of them where you live and leave retards like you on your own.

I’m completely fine with that.

Do you think they actually stop crime? Like if some crackhead attacks you some cop is going to jump out of a tree to save you?

Frankly most of what they do during crimes could be replaced with a online self serve police report generator, add to that a speeding and light running camera and that’s about 95% of all they seem to do, write tickets, generate police reports.

 

[wade2big]

How about this idea. Let the public protect their own life and property without fear of prosecution by the police. Crime would go down and there would be a need for maybe 1/4 of the police force. Of course this doesn’t suit the police state that we live in now.

People are scared of the police and this fucked up justice system we have. This is why they don’t take care of their own problems. This was by design and all about control.

 

[theLBC]

pretty sure efi is "better", but jmo.

 

[Fig]

Wrong thread. Fuck EFI. Massive displacement naturally aspirated.
There’s no replacement for displacement.

 

[Fig]

@TurboTrout world

 

[theLBC]

Wrong thread. Fuck EFI. Massive displacement naturally aspirated.
There’s no replacement for displacement.

lol, i just mean from a fucking poor paying for gas point of view.

 

[Fig]

My 750 on my 427 sprays gas so you can watch the needle drop, IF you could look at the gage, which you can’t, because you’re too busy trying to avoid whiplash.

 

[TurboTrout]

@TurboTrout world

Hey I lived in the desert of SoCal, pretty much the same thing lol


Funny thing is the biggest police state states, the ones with the most draconian laws, well

NY
DC
NJ
CA
Chicago IL

Etc.

Yes, I know, without daddy gov we’d all be doomed, gov knows best, gov is good

 

[Fig]

Wanting a liberal, constitutional, republic is so fucking far from the absence of government that I find your comments almost totally uneducated. It’s as if there was no history, and yours is a train of thought commentary with zero knowledge of the past.

 

[wade2big]

Wanting a liberal, constitutional, republic is so fucking far from the absence of government that I find your comments almost totally uneducated. It’s as if there was no history, and yours is a train of thought commentary with zero knowledge of the past.

Your perception of @TurboTrout is incorrect. Not wanting or appreciating an all powerful police state more closely resembles the principles that this country was founded than many of you guy’s ideas. Power should be with the people and not the state.

How it ever became popular that the gov’t should protect you is beyond me. This is what you guys are subscribing to. The gov’t is always a negative. The more power it has the worse it is for the people with no exceptions.

 

[TurboTrout]

Wanting a liberal, constitutional, republic is so fucking far from the absence of government that I find your comments almost totally uneducated. It’s as if there was no history, and yours is a train of thought commentary with zero knowledge of the past.

Liberal constitutional? I don’t think that’s a thing.

And in the past the government didn’t have its tentacles into every part of your life like we do today.

Folks also didn’t foolishly think of gov as a safety blanket, that’s why back then men understood their family was their responsibility, from feeding them to protecting them, not like today where somehow thats the governments job.