Sidearms & Scatterguns I was considering a Sig P220.. but now I'm not so sure.

[JelloStorm]

Hey guys,

I recently sold a Beretta 92FS that I was less than impressed with and wanted to get another .45 since I have a SW1911 and an HK USC converted to UMP.

I was looking at the Sig P220 after fondling one at a local shop but with a mag capacity of only 8 rounds, I really gain nothing over my Smith & Wesson 1911. So now I am not sure if the P220 is worth getting, over say an HK45 or FN45. Not a Glock/XD fan either. The gun would be one of my carry pistols. I currently carry an HK USP-C .357sig, however since my SW1911 is stainless I never carry it for fear of harming the finish.

What sold you on the P220 and how has it compared to other pistols?

Does anyone here own both an HK45 and P220 and give me their honest preference?

 

[Bob Shaver]

I'm not sure if this helps, but is the Sig 227 on store shelves yet? That would address your capacity concerns. I like the 220 because the controls mirror my 226, 228 & 229's. I don't own an HK in 45 but I do own a .40 USP and as a leftie I like its ambi controls.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Have you considered a USP in .45?

 

[JelloStorm]

I'm not sure if this helps, but is the Sig 227 on store shelves yet? That would address your capacity concerns. I like the 220 because the controls mirror my 226, 228 & 229's. I don't own an HK in 45 but I do own a .40 USP and as a leftie I like its ambi controls.

I am such an idiot. I thought the only .45 Sig had was the 220 series. Though their model naming convention isn't very obvious.

The 227 would fit the bill nicely and, from reading their .pdf files, is the same width as the 220 anyway. That may be the ticket for me.

 

[JelloStorm]

I could kick my own ass. Back in 2003 I had one on lay-a-way when they were $675 NIB at my local dealer. I ran into some cash issues since I was 21 at the time and never ended up getting one. They are on my bucket list though. Maybe a USP 45 Tactical.

 

[30calDeath]

Not much help but I LOVE my 220 combat, just feels perfect being single stack! And it shoots real nice too, also considering sending it to Gray Guns for some work to make it even better.

 

[simmy952]

FNX 45 has my vote. Just picked one up for under $700 OTD. Ambi controls, interchangeable grips, and 15 + 1 makes a very nice pistol. Having shot the P220, G21, M&P 45, and a few others, the FNX is by far the nicest shooting .45 of them all. The ones mentioned above are all great guns but that has just been my experience.

 

[sfogold]

C,

Not much help but I LOVE my 220 combat, just feels perfect being single stack! And it shoots real nice too, also considering sending it to Gray Guns for some work to make it even better.

I also have a 220 Combat and am considering sending it to Grays. I do like the pistol, but am not a fan of the trigger which IMO needs work. Note, the combat model does accept a 10 round mag, but one would be hard pressed to conceal this thing as the mag would make concealed carry nearly impossible.

 

[JelloStorm]

C,

I also have a 220 Combat and am considering sending it to Grays. I do like the pistol, but am not a fan of the trigger which IMO needs work. Note, the combat model does accept a 10 round mag, but one would be hard pressed to conceal this thing as the mag would make concealed carry nearly impossible.

Does the Combat use a double-stack or an extended single stack?

 

[leadbullet]

all three of my P220 are super accurate out of the box but 8 rounds simply sucks, I am waiting for the P227 and snagging one of those, best of both worlds, 10rds of 45 and P220 accuracy.

 

[30calDeath]

Does the Combat use a double-stack or an extended single stack?

Single stack and that is why I prefer them over double stack especially in 45. 8 in flush mount and 10 with extended mag. While the flush mount is great, the extended 10 rd mags do not make a difference at all to me. When they stick out of the mag you can not tell when holding the gun. I guess if you were to try and CCW the gun that could be an issue but I am not sure I would CCW the 220combat. I think their is better, lighter guns out there like my Springfield XDs for that.

 

[ChemE1975]

if you are already comfy with the ergos on your USPc, I'd suggest looking into the USP 45 or HK45.

 

[plong]

FNX 45 has my vote. Just picked one up for under $700 OTD. Ambi controls, interchangeable grips, and 15 + 1 makes a very nice pistol. Having shot the P220, G21, M&P 45, and a few others, the FNX is by far the nicest shooting .45 of them all. The ones mentioned above are all great guns but that has just been my experience.

+1 I'm a huge FN pistol fan; kind of a hidden gem in the world of handguns IMHO. I absolutely love my FNP 45! (The FNX predecessor.) It is, however, a BIG handgun so you'll definitely want to check out the ergos for yourself before buying.

 

[Cartman]

We have a couple P220s and they are my wife's go-to gun. And the reasons for that include the ergos with the single stack mag. Just something to feel for yourself before you make up your mind.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

What sold you on the P220 and how has it compared to other pistols?

Reputation of quality and dependability, also it's a classic and belongs in any handgun collection.

Does anyone here own both an HK45 and P220 and give me their honest preference?

The HK45 is a more modern design, more ergonomic, and has better magazine capacity. The P220 is a great shooting pistol, points well and feels good in the hand. Similar to a 1911 in that being single stack is limited in magazine capacity. Both are dependable, reliable designs and .................... expensive.

 

[Jhnmdahl]

For me, the P220 is more ergonomic than the HK45 - makes sense to hold them both, and see which one works best for you...

John

 

[DaddyRat]

Dang I must be missing something? I have carried a sig 220 since 1990 with 8 round mags and NEVER felt undergunned. What gives?

 

[dang472]

I've had 4 or 5 normally Glock/1911/revolver guys etc handle and shoot my 220 and all them were very impressed with how easy it was to shoot accurately. 2 of them went out a bought one. If you get a chance to shoot one, odds are you'll feel the same.

 

[kimberseries1]

Hey guys,

I recently sold a Beretta 92FS that I was less than impressed with and wanted to get another .45 since I have a SW1911 and an HK USC converted to UMP.

I was looking at the Sig P220 after fondling one at a local shop but with a mag capacity of only 8 rounds, I really gain nothing over my Smith & Wesson 1911. So now I am not sure if the P220 is worth getting, over say an HK45 or FN45. Not a Glock/XD fan either. The gun would be one of my carry pistols. I currently carry an HK USP-C .357sig, however since my SW1911 is stainless I never carry it for fear of harming the finish.

What sold you on the P220 and how has it compared to other pistols?

Does anyone here own both an HK45 and P220 and give me their honest preference?

Stay away! Hk over sig anyday. P220 I had was junk, hence the HAD. get another 1911...

 

[kimberseries1]

Double post

 

[cal50]

If you want a hi-cap .45 Glock 21
If you can live with a smaller capacity get any HK.

The Sig 220 is a nice gun but I feel the HK & Glock are better.

 

[Cobracutter]

In the modern .45 world there is the HK45/45c and everything else.

Just ask Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn. One a former delta member, pistol isntructor, and world renowned 1911 smith. The other, one of the finest pistol shooters/instructors that has ever lived.

Here is a great article:
pistol-training.com » HK45 Interview with Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers

 

[plong]

In the modern .45 world there is the HK45/45c and everything else.

Just ask Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn. One a former delta member, pistol isntructor, and world renowned 1911 smith. The other, one of the finest pistol shooters/instructors that has ever lived.

Here is a great article:
pistol-training.com » HK45 Interview with Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers

"Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers — agree to discuss their involvement in the HK45′s history." ...can you say paid endorsement(s)? ("involvement" = $$, nothing wrong with that but lets call it what it is). While its a good modern polymer .45 its not the only good modern polymer .45 (IMHO, of course !)

 

[Cartman]

Try them out and see how they work for you. Not to take anything away from the HK45 or Vickers and Hackathorn, but the Sig design of the P220, P226, and variants has probably been adopted by more police and military units worldwide so that I doubt the comparison wouldn't even be close. I don't think there's reason to believe you would be missing out from a design perspective if you went with the Sig. Check the ergos, how well you shoot them, and see which floats your boat. Hard to go wrong here.

 

[backyardsniper]

I run a p220 and really like them. You can argue what is best all day but for me I like the 220. I'm not a 1911 guy because they are just that 1911 technology. They are nice for range or competition and such but not a carry gun for me. I like the p220 so well I go the wife a p239. All the same controls and ergo as the p220 but small enough to fit her hands and works very well for me as a carry gun when it's shorts and tee shirt weather. Everyone likes there own thing and what pistol to carry is very ford vs. chevy. I have carried a glock and a usp40 when I used to carry .40cals and they were both great pistols and I'm sure would have done their job if called on. I simply prefer the p220. Carry whatever you feel confident with.

 

[Delta4-3]

It really depends on the individual. I carry a g19 because they fit my girlish hands and didn't fail me in a certain craphole countries on the other side of the globe. While I'm fond of it, it would stick out like a sore thumb on my 110lbs wife and feels like a brick in her hands, so she packs a PM9 and loves it. I'm a nobody, but my advice is to start with what guns fit YOUR body, and narrow them down from there (obviously if it's unreliable and you can't shoot it, scratch it off the list before you get to that point).

 

[Delta4-3]

I also don't like DA/SA, but that's another argument based on my likings all together.

 

[Cobracutter]

"Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers — agree to discuss their involvement in the HK45′s history." ...can you say paid endorsement(s)? ("involvement" = $$, nothing wrong with that but lets call it what it is). While its a good modern polymer .45 its not the only good modern polymer .45 (IMHO, of course !)

Both of those men's integrity is beyond reproach. Larry knows more about combat pistols and pistol marksman ship than just about anyone else on the planet.

Why would the seal teams use the HK45/c over a 220, based on their history and familiarity with the 228/M11? Its not even a debate.

220 is a heavy, dated design by a company that has gone to shit QC wise and is known for their lemons. I used to be a diehard sig owner when I was still young and ignorant.

 

[Delta4-3]

The SEALs and vickers also use glocks. There are a lot of good guns out there.

 

[Shooter0311]

Not to mention sigs are stil used as well.....

 

[plong]

The SEALs and vickers also use glocks. There are a lot of good guns out there.

My point exactly! while i respect both Vickers and Hackathorn for who they are and what they've accomplished lets face it they're both in the commercial world now. There was one quote in the interview that I found to be particularly telling: "For the overwhelming number of people who feel like they need to have a .45 the only two real choices are the M&P45 and the HK45..." completely ignoring Glock? I'm thinking there are plenty of his SF brethren who would beg to differ. I say that despite that fact that I'm no Glock fan myself. I strongly prefer and my EDC has been M&P for years but I have to acknowledge I'd have no problem trusting my life to a Glock (or a Sig, or a FN... for that matter) if the need arose.

 

[Delta4-3]

That's where I was going with that too. Notice he also has commercials saying something along the lines of Aimpoints being the only worthy combat optic, when thousands of SOF guys use EOTechs and Acogs. But vickers is on neither L-3's or Trijicon's payroll......

My point exactly! while i respect both Vickers and Hackathorn for who they are and what they've accomplished lets face it they're both in the commercial world now. There was one quote in the interview that I found to be particularly telling: "For the overwhelming number of people who feel like they need to have a .45 the only two real choices are the M&P45 and the HK45..." completely ignoring Glock? I'm thinking there are plenty of his SF brethren who would beg to differ. I say that despite that fact that I'm no Glock fan myself. I strongly prefer and my EDC has been M&P for years but I have to acknowledge I'd have no problem trusting my life to a Glock (or a Sig, or a FN... for that matter) if the need arose.

 

[Cobracutter]

Maybe beacuse of the unsupported chambers in glocks? This conversation was also pre Slim frame glock days and you need some big ass mitts to be able to shoot them well. Picking up a new G29SF this week so well see if it glock grenades like I'm told that all non 9mm's do :/


I don't recall him saying its the ONLY combat optic. However Larry is a pretty big aimpoint fan boy. I doubt its beacuse of monetary reasons however. Here is some good posts from him on the subject: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=128818

 

[Cartman]

Not to mention sigs are stil used as well.....

And the fundamental mechanical design of the P226 is essentially the same as the P220. It may be old, but it still works.

 

[dang472]

I see another gun vs. gun debate devolving into "This is what the SF guys run" argument. Come on, most CCW pistols are subjected to some love handle sweat and shirt lint. Just about all the big name pistols will go bang reliably every time providing common sense cleaning and decent mags. Shoot as many as you can get your hands on. Being comfortable and actually wanting to practice with it will go much farther than the "Tactical" version of some big buddy government contract with front cocking serrations and a super secret 40 year salt spray tested trigger spring.

 

[Shooter0311]

Dang, not from the bulk of us. I frankly don't give a diddle what someone else carries except maybe to check on how said kit did in testing for general reference.

The OP should get a sig IMO if he wants. I have sig, hk, fn, colt, CZ and even a beat up PF9. Agree major manufacturers are good for GP carry but the OP was considering sig and I for one can't say anything bad about all mine.

If the 220 feels good in your hand, get it man! If you feel like you need more than 8 plus one in 45 acp, well, you can get the sig 10 round mags for 10+1. They don't conceal well for me though. I have a 220 carry and a scorpion, love them both.

On your usp-c; I also have one that I carry from time to time (357 sig). A little lighter and smaller than the 220 but the 220 is dwarfed by my usp 45 tactical. Off topic, sorry. Get what you want. Good companies will stand behind the product.

 

[donp326]

I have and do carry the Sig P-220 (8+1) with CT laser grips from October thru March when I change to a CZ-75 CT SP01 mags (18+1). I don't miss the difference in capacity. I feel just as well armed with the P-220 as I do with the CZ. I do carry an extra 8 round mag in my pocket when carrying the Sig P-220. The Sig is an older one I bought in the early 1980's (West German made).

 

[Powermac]

If size and price is not too much of a concern the good old Mark 23 .45 would get my vote every time.
12 rounds of 45, in a tested and bomb proof pistol.

 

[W54/XM-388]

If size and price is not too much of a concern the good old Mark 23 .45 would get my vote every time.
12 rounds of 45, in a tested and bomb proof pistol.

The Mark 23 can handle +P+ style loads as it was originally conceived as part of a system that used very hot loads.
The downside is that for most people it is too big for every day carry. (It is huge, it's a sidearm that qualifies as a primary weapon just about).
The HK45 / HK45c family are much more ergonomic and easy to carry & offer something for everyone (DA/SA, or DAO, or Light DAO, safety or no safety, standard barrel / threaded barrel / both barrels etc.)
The one downside is that 10 round mags are the biggest ones you can get... but then just get more mags.

 

[dagwood]

I shoot a P220ST and a P229R. The weight of the ST is great of long shooting sessions. I just like the feel of the Sig. The grip angle fits how I shoot.
Make sure you handle each one on your list before you buy. Fit and function usually outweighs a name. If it works for you, buy it.

 

[donp326]

I was considering a Sig P220.. but now I'm not so sure.

I have ha a P-220 since 1984 it is the most accurate pistol I have. I have CT laser grips on
It and it fits my hand perfectly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[seg_steve]

I have to agree. I never owned a P220 but I shot it a lot at the range as rentals. I've shot all kinds of .45s and always considered it one of the nicer shooting ones.

 

[emvampyre]

I've carried an HK USP .45 for the past 12 years now and love it. I also own an older, 80's P220, and shoot it often. For carry I just happen to like the USP better, and both weapons are approved for carry on my department. Get what you shoot best and what feels best to you.

 

[AntiScreed]

I've had my P220 for a long time and since I have big hands its by far the perfect fit. The weight and rock solid performance has never let me down even at times DRY as a rock. I have Hogue grips that being it to the best level IMHO. Additionally adding a SS heavy guide rod notched it up a bit more.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

 

[Centuriator]

The SIG P220 is the most comfortably shooting .45ACP semi-auto I've ever used.

Have you considered the P227?

 

[Tahoe333]

Now that I don't shoot pistols very often my speed skills with the 220 da/sa trigger is lacking. Also during transition drills I forgot to use the decocker twice before reholstering the weapon. <--- huge NoNo.
I ended up going with a g30sf, mainly for the simplicity and the ability to have 10 rounds without an extended mag.

 

[Centuriator]

Tahoe, bingo, you put your finger on the downside of a DA/SA system.

 

[Brian]

Now that I don't shoot pistols very often my speed skills with the 220 da/sa trigger is lacking. Also during transition drills I forgot to use the decocker twice before reholstering the weapon. <--- huge NoNo.
I ended up going with a g30sf, mainly for the simplicity and the ability to have 10 rounds without an extended mag.

And how would you decock the G30 before reholstering??.......
No difference..

 

[Centuriator]

"Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers — agree to discuss their involvement in the HK45′s history." ...can you say paid endorsement(s)? ("involvement" = $$, nothing wrong with that but lets call it what it is). While its a good modern polymer .45 its not the only good modern polymer .45 (IMHO, of course !)

You've got some fact wrong there.

They were directly involved in the development of the HK 45 and Larry was also involved in the development of the HK 416, and not, as you would have some think, by way of "I get paid to talk about it."

Take care not to diss these gents.

 

[Centuriator]

And how would you decock the G30 before reholstering??.......
No difference..

The point being, if I may add something here, with the Glock you have the same exact trigger experience with each shot. Not so with DA/SA and unlike the Glock you also have to add a step by uncocking it since there is is NO safety and you would not want to be running around with a cocked DA/SA that lacks a good external safety system. Carrying a SIG cocked and locked is very unwise in my opinion.

So, with a DA/SA you have master/learn/use two trigger pulls and you do have to decock it if you still have one in the chamber.

Glocks are just easier, in my opinion.