I understand that I need to download my profiles from my Kestrel to my tablet before updating to 1.25. I'd like to know if the DSF adjustments will come over with the profiles.
- Thread starter Kestrel Ballistics
- Start date
Well, I checked and my Elite 5700 with link is set to PC/mobile and pin is off as instructed. It says it's available, but will not pair with phone in Kestrel Link ballistics. Phone cannot find it. My older Shooter program does find the meter and get atmospherics even though the phone says they are not paired. I did uninstall and reinstall the link Ballistics Program and it did not help. My phone is not paired with any other device. I need help
Forgot to mention. See previous post from 4-10-19. Kestrel was pairing fine with Galaxy S9+ since kestrel purchase. I finally performed the software update and have had a problem since. My phone is pairing fine with other devices. I did try to pair with phone through the Kestrel Link Ballistics after uninstalling and reinstalling. They cannot find each other now. Also I did save all of my gun profiles on the Kestrel before uninstalling program on phone.
Right after my update i did have an issue with pairing, rebooted phone and power cycled kestrel and it has been fine since.
"Well, I checked and my Elite 5700 with link is set to PC/mobile and pin is off as instructed. It says it's available, but will not pair with phone in Kestrel Link ballistics. Phone cannot find it. My older Shooter program does find the meter and get atmospherics even though the phone says they are not paired. I did uninstall and reinstall the link Ballistics Program and it did not help. My phone is not paired with any other device. I need help"
If your phone is paired with Shooter but not showing that it is, it is possible it is already paired with something else when you try to pair with the Kestrel Link Ballistic program and not showing that. Also, download the Kestrel Link app (not ballistics) and see if that pairs.
If your phone is paired with Shooter but not showing that it is, it is possible it is already paired with something else when you try to pair with the Kestrel Link Ballistic program and not showing that. Also, download the Kestrel Link app (not ballistics) and see if that pairs.
I only have two other devices that I have paired with the phone and they are both off. I did install the Kestrel Link app and it and the phone paired nicely. The Kestrel Ballistic app would then find the meter but would not hook up as it was paired with the Link app. I then uninstalled the Kestrel Link app and now the Kestrel Ballistic app is pairing with my phone. Not sure why, but it works now. Thank you! I do appreciate your time and help.
The 5700 and the Elite will both pair with the sig 3000 BDX and their solution will be used in external mode. If you were to upgrade to the Elite you would add the custom curves and drop scale factor features to the solution, as these are not available in the 5700.
Help me understand what I am seeing, first 2 pictures is my zero distance and it's calling for elevation. I have 5mph and 10 mph 3'o'clock wind. I zero the wind, and the elevation goes to zero shown in picture 3. Is this aerodynamic jump, and if so at 103y? 
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Side by side range card zero wind on the left, 5&10 on the right.
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Ok, I have the following AB related critters in my paws ...
01 - Applied Ballistic Phone App (android) version 2.2.1
02 - Kestrel Link Ballistic App (android) build 157
03 - Kestrel 5700 Elite AB LINK sw v 1.22
04 - RAPTAR S/ES sw: 03.02 hw: 2
So, I can do the following
11 - key gun data directly into 04 and get that to work (provide hold data)
12 - key gun data directly into 03 and get that to work
13 - Integrate 03 and 04 devices per pages 75-77 in the operator manual for 04
14 - key gun data into 02 and integrate with 03 per quick start guide for 02
What I have NOT be able to do ... and maybe that is because it is not possible ... is integrate 01 and 03. In other words, I already have all my correct gun data in my "REAL" Applied Ballistics App. And this data I consider to be the "source of truth" because it is verified across all guns and ammo and shooting sessions. So rather than having to rekey all this data into 02, to send it to 03 and hence to 04 ... I would prefer to be able to download the 01 "truth" data directly to 03 and hence to 04 from there. In my process, I would only make changes to gun data in 01 ... to preserve 01 as the "system of truth". I do not want to get into cross sync'ing back and forth between 4 platforms. I intend to only synch in one direction ... 01 to 02 (or 03) .. 02 to 03 ... 03 to 04 ... the question is whether I can pull data from 01 via automated integration or do I have to manually rekey the data from 01 to 02.
I've read thru this thread and haven't been able to see exactly this question discussed. Maybe I am too dense to understand the words others are using so I will try again and read thru the thread. But if anyone knows whether it is possible to send gun data directly from Applied Ballistics App (01) to the Kestrel (03), that would be much appreciated. Then at least I would know it is possible !!
I can "connect" to the kestrel (03) from the Applied Ballistics app (01) via the main menu (01) "Configure Kestrel" menu item. But that does not seem to enable any functionality. I still can see no way to send gun data to the Kestrel (03) from Applied Ballistics (01).
Thanks !!
01 - Applied Ballistic Phone App (android) version 2.2.1
02 - Kestrel Link Ballistic App (android) build 157
03 - Kestrel 5700 Elite AB LINK sw v 1.22
04 - RAPTAR S/ES sw: 03.02 hw: 2
So, I can do the following
11 - key gun data directly into 04 and get that to work (provide hold data)
12 - key gun data directly into 03 and get that to work
13 - Integrate 03 and 04 devices per pages 75-77 in the operator manual for 04
14 - key gun data into 02 and integrate with 03 per quick start guide for 02
What I have NOT be able to do ... and maybe that is because it is not possible ... is integrate 01 and 03. In other words, I already have all my correct gun data in my "REAL" Applied Ballistics App. And this data I consider to be the "source of truth" because it is verified across all guns and ammo and shooting sessions. So rather than having to rekey all this data into 02, to send it to 03 and hence to 04 ... I would prefer to be able to download the 01 "truth" data directly to 03 and hence to 04 from there. In my process, I would only make changes to gun data in 01 ... to preserve 01 as the "system of truth". I do not want to get into cross sync'ing back and forth between 4 platforms. I intend to only synch in one direction ... 01 to 02 (or 03) .. 02 to 03 ... 03 to 04 ... the question is whether I can pull data from 01 via automated integration or do I have to manually rekey the data from 01 to 02.
I've read thru this thread and haven't been able to see exactly this question discussed. Maybe I am too dense to understand the words others are using so I will try again and read thru the thread. But if anyone knows whether it is possible to send gun data directly from Applied Ballistics App (01) to the Kestrel (03), that would be much appreciated. Then at least I would know it is possible !!
I can "connect" to the kestrel (03) from the Applied Ballistics app (01) via the main menu (01) "Configure Kestrel" menu item. But that does not seem to enable any functionality. I still can see no way to send gun data to the Kestrel (03) from Applied Ballistics (01).
Thanks !!
Sorry, only the Kestrel Ballistic app is a 2 way interface. The AB app only links to the the Kestrel to acquire environment data. All data and calculations are in the AB app, not the Kestrel.Ok, I have the following AB related critters in my paws ...
01 - Applied Ballistic Phone App (android) version 2.2.1
02 - Kestrel Link Ballistic App (android) build 157
03 - Kestrel 5700 Elite AB LINK sw v 1.22
04 - RAPTAR S/ES sw: 03.02 hw: 2
So, I can do the following
11 - key gun data directly into 04 and get that to work (provide hold data)
12 - key gun data directly into 03 and get that to work
13 - Integrate 03 and 04 devices per pages 75-77 in the operator manual for 04
14 - key gun data into 02 and integrate with 03 per quick start guide for 02
What I have NOT be able to do ... and maybe that is because it is not possible ... is integrate 01 and 03. In other words, I already have all my correct gun data in my "REAL" Applied Ballistics App. And this data I consider to be the "source of truth" because it is verified across all guns and ammo and shooting sessions. So rather than having to rekey all this data into 02, to send it to 03 and hence to 04 ... I would prefer to be able to download the 01 "truth" data directly to 03 and hence to 04 from there. In my process, I would only make changes to gun data in 01 ... to preserve 01 as the "system of truth". I do not want to get into cross sync'ing back and forth between 4 platforms. I intend to only synch in one direction ... 01 to 02 (or 03) .. 02 to 03 ... 03 to 04 ... the question is whether I can pull data from 01 via automated integration or do I have to manually rekey the data from 01 to 02.
I've read thru this thread and haven't been able to see exactly this question discussed. Maybe I am too dense to understand the words others are using so I will try again and read thru the thread. But if anyone knows whether it is possible to send gun data directly from Applied Ballistics App (01) to the Kestrel (03), that would be much appreciated. Then at least I would know it is possible !!
I can "connect" to the kestrel (03) from the Applied Ballistics app (01) via the main menu (01) "Configure Kestrel" menu item. But that does not seem to enable any functionality. I still can see no way to send gun data to the Kestrel (03) from Applied Ballistics (01).
Thanks !!
Im looking at a 5700 im leaning towards the ab model because i have used ab on my phone for a long time and im just wondering if there is any advantages or is there any real diference between the 4dof and the ab
Officially you don't, some think it helps getting the first turn started, but for reasons unknown.
Just tried 8 times straight up, unsuccessful. Tip axis and successful everytime
There must be a reason this happens and I'm looking for an answer.
I think you need to switch between magnetic and true north?
Turn spin drift off and either turn latitude to 0 or 1. That should knock out any Coriolis.
Should go to zero when zero wind inputted at that point.
I am really drawn into this handheld long battery life thing, my phone runs out of battery during long sessions and the enviromental data would take a lot of guess work out of the firing solution.
Disclaimer:I am no smart with ballistics, someone could call me a plain troll for asking these stupid questions. Here to take info in.
But what is with the thing that you want your users to true it via muzzle velocity, even if they had precise chrono info available (at the spot)?
Time 1:10
On one video you say garbage in garbage out and then on another video you ask to give "false" data.
How I have set up previously my solutions is chrono it, note enviromental data and then count the drop for distance. The BC has "shown" itself by testing which BC works the same solution under same weather settings.
But it looks you got it working very well like that? Is giving the solution false mv a real thing that works? Why not tune BC?
Disclaimer:I am no smart with ballistics, someone could call me a plain troll for asking these stupid questions. Here to take info in.
But what is with the thing that you want your users to true it via muzzle velocity, even if they had precise chrono info available (at the spot)?
Time 1:10
On one video you say garbage in garbage out and then on another video you ask to give "false" data.
How I have set up previously my solutions is chrono it, note enviromental data and then count the drop for distance. The BC has "shown" itself by testing which BC works the same solution under same weather settings.
But it looks you got it working very well like that? Is giving the solution false mv a real thing that works? Why not tune BC?
The Hornady 4DOF App uses something called "Axial form factor" to true your dope. They claim that every barrel and even the brake you use effects the bullet down range. Who knows what the app is doing to your inputs in the back round when you change the form factor. Its probably changing the velocity. Basically what I'm trying to get at is that every ballistics program has a way to true the data to your real world results. All of them you either change the velocity or change the BC or a combination of both. When you use a custom drag curve the only thing you can change is the muzzle velocity. I had to add 35fps to my velocity to get my DOPE to match up on my kestrel. I've only used it for 2 matches but I had a second round impact at 1400 yards holding 5.75 mils of wind. I think you can overthink the problem and miss the solution all together. just my .02
I agree mostly with you. It is impossible to get real world and computer data to fit. But it is possible to make very close guesses. What I am wondering is why ditch hard data and instead keep the BC the same? Usually it leaves a gap somewhere that computer then fills with a near estimate.
And once you mentioned 4DOF.. I assume they are both able to make good calls for making first round hits. Dunno which one I should pick but it will probably take a good time before Hornady's arrives at retailers here.
I used 4DOF on my phone for 2 years and it was awesome. I don't use BC I use the custom drag model, which Hornady uses as well, in their 4DOF program. I'm not 100% knowledgeable about CDM but I do know that the models these top tier companies ie. Applied Balistics and Hornady come up with through Doppler verified studies are accurate to the lot and type of bullet used. That being said every lot of bullet will fly through the air a little differently. In addition like stated above Hornady claims different barrels and brakes etc. will effect it also. I believe that the CDM models are very close to the real world values. That's where tweaking velocity comes in. Somebody else can probably explain in substantially smarter terms than me.
Here is a comparison chart of all the Kestrel Ballistic meters:
https://kestrelinstruments.com/ballistics-shooting
https://kestrelinstruments.com/ballistics-shooting
Yesterday I upgraded my sportsman to an elite. I confirmed that the upgrade took by seeing elite in the loading screen on the kestrel as well as the new range card and target submenus. Also the windows kestrel application identifies my unit as an elite. However, upon trying to load CDMs from the windows AB loader, it says they don't work on the sportsman and it puts a 1.0 in my BC. Is there something I'm doing wrong?
I don't think so. My Elite puts 1.0 in BC when I use CDM. It also states that it does that if you look at the instructions online.
All is good, you are getting 1.0 for BC which means the custom curve is being used. The AB Profile loader is just sending a notification about the Sportsman units, no saying you have a Sportsman.
Great, thanks! I was confused by the loader saying it won't work with the sportsman and following that sentence it says BC of 1.0 will be entered made it sound like it wasn't going to work.
what versions of kestrel weathermeters measure density altitude? kestrels site is hard to navigate and doesnt say density altitude on it
I have kestrel 5700 elite AB LINK (FW 1.22) ... and "Real AB" version 2.2.1 database version 81900
I shoot three different 7.62 (0.308WIN) rifles and cartrdiges.
In AB I've been shooting them for months and have found the match exactly to the real world. For example shooting 6 inch steel at 620-640yds (check my day shooting thread) ... I am often dead on in the center of the steel from and elevation perspective. Or if off, I'm off either high or low from that center (elevation) line. And this is with
7.62(20) Bolt with FGMM 175gr (7.62 load)
7.62(20) Stoner with M118LR
7.62(22) Bolt with Berger 1.55.5 (Berger load)
So I trust the "REAL AB" app on my phone.
==
So trying to setup the Kestrel to match. I can get CLOSE. But I cannot get them to match. The holds for both elevation or wind are 0.1 mils to 0.2 mils off. For all cartridges and guns. Is this "just the way it is"? Should I expect them to match? I am in the house. I have setup the temps to match exactly, the humidity to match exactly. The gun data matches exactly. but the output on the kestrel does not match exactly to the "REAL AB".
Are my expectations of a match invalid ?
Thanks !
I shoot three different 7.62 (0.308WIN) rifles and cartrdiges.
In AB I've been shooting them for months and have found the match exactly to the real world. For example shooting 6 inch steel at 620-640yds (check my day shooting thread) ... I am often dead on in the center of the steel from and elevation perspective. Or if off, I'm off either high or low from that center (elevation) line. And this is with
7.62(20) Bolt with FGMM 175gr (7.62 load)
7.62(20) Stoner with M118LR
7.62(22) Bolt with Berger 1.55.5 (Berger load)
So I trust the "REAL AB" app on my phone.
==
So trying to setup the Kestrel to match. I can get CLOSE. But I cannot get them to match. The holds for both elevation or wind are 0.1 mils to 0.2 mils off. For all cartridges and guns. Is this "just the way it is"? Should I expect them to match? I am in the house. I have setup the temps to match exactly, the humidity to match exactly. The gun data matches exactly. but the output on the kestrel does not match exactly to the "REAL AB".
Are my expectations of a match invalid ?
Thanks !
Comparison chart is toward the bottom of this page:
Kestrel Ballistics - Weather Meters for Long Range Shooting
The Kestrel line of ballistics weather meters are the best ballistic weather meters on the market and combine environmental measurements with a ballistics calculator, allowing for higher target shooting accuracy.
kestrelinstruments.com I have kestrel 5700 elite AB LINK (FW 1.22) ... and "Real AB" version 2.2.1 database version 81900
I shoot three different 7.62 (0.308WIN) rifles and cartrdiges.
In AB I've been shooting them for months and have found the match exactly to the real world. For example shooting 6 inch steel at 620-640yds (check my day shooting thread) ... I am often dead on in the center of the steel from and elevation perspective. Or if off, I'm off either high or low from that center (elevation) line. And this is with
7.62(20) Bolt with FGMM 175gr (7.62 load)
7.62(20) Stoner with M118LR
7.62(22) Bolt with Berger 1.55.5 (Berger load)
So I trust the "REAL AB" app on my phone.
==
So trying to setup the Kestrel to match. I can get CLOSE. But I cannot get them to match. The holds for both elevation or wind are 0.1 mils to 0.2 mils off. For all cartridges and guns. Is this "just the way it is"? Should I expect them to match? I am in the house. I have setup the temps to match exactly, the humidity to match exactly. The gun data matches exactly. but the output on the kestrel does not match exactly to the "REAL AB".
Are my expectations of a match invalid ?
Thanks !
Have you done the MV Calibration for each profile?
I would concentrate on data entry on both, keeping in mind the Kestrel is recording local environmental and the app you may of needed to enter and they DA may be different on another day so they would need to be set the same. Gun setup, ammunition settings, bore height, zero distance, etc.
Screen shots of your entries of each may help the experts here zero you in so to speak.
You are only at ~600 yards, how different are the outputs?
Screen shots of your entries of each may help the experts here zero you in so to speak.
You are only at ~600 yards, how different are the outputs?
If you mean "in the real world", yes. The MV data I use come from MSv3 data. I check these data for these cartridges when ever starting a new case.
Cases of M118LR contain 460rds ( shot from Gap-10v2 20 inch bartlein)
Cases of FGMM 175 (7.62) contain 500rds (shot from REM700 SPS TAC AAC-SD barreled action on Bravo chassis)
The Berger 155.5gr Berger load do not come in cases but I recheck ever 200rds. (shot from REM700 Criterion 22 inch barreled action on AIAX chassis)
An MSv3 check consists of 20rds fired with the MSv3 on the gun.
So net/net based on avg 93 30 cal rds fired per week so far this year ... I update the MSv3 data roughly once a quarter for all three of these gun/ammo combinations
The outputs are 0.1 to 0.2 mils different.
I ran the kestrel test in the house. I kept adjusting the temp on the 01 as it kept rising on the 03 (I was holding it in my hand).
I also matched the humidity and height above sea level ... in the 01 and the 03 devices.
Read up on locking and editing the environmental data, and setting them to what you captured on your last range day. Getting the same input data is very important to getting the same output, G1, G7, custom curves, etc all of these variables change the equations.
As "kestrel" mentioned you always need to CAL your muzzle velocity to the apps/kestrel, the BC and curves are on another gun with a different setup. Your data at 600 should be perfect for this, and you need to be very certain of your zero distance and CAL distance.
As "kestrel" mentioned you always need to CAL your muzzle velocity to the apps/kestrel, the BC and curves are on another gun with a different setup. Your data at 600 should be perfect for this, and you need to be very certain of your zero distance and CAL distance.
One thing that could matter for other guns, but not for the one I've keyed in so far, is that 01 ("Real AB") seems to separately track the atmospherics for when the cartridge/gun where zeroed. With other gun/cartridge combinations, in 01 I will occasionally see, in my "trajectory" output ... based on current atmospherics at a given firing point, that I am not exactly "zeroed" at 100yds anymore. Some gun/cartridge combos were zeroed back in Feb in 20F ... others more recently in April in 60F. The kestrel might not be separately tracking the zeroing conditions?
My main question is just whether I should expect to be off by 0.1 mils or 0.2 mils ... for elevation and wind for a given gun/cartridge combination between kestrel ab (device 03 in my list) and "real ab" (device 01 in my list). I will act accordingly, depending on answer.
My main question is just whether I should expect to be off by 0.1 mils or 0.2 mils ... for elevation and wind for a given gun/cartridge combination between kestrel ab (device 03 in my list) and "real ab" (device 01 in my list). I will act accordingly, depending on answer.
I am not sure if you are seeing difference in multiple guns inside the kestrel, or one gun inside the kestrel vs the "Real AB" I assume this is the AB app?
Pictures help, and I have been told if you are zero'ing at 100y you should not have weather enabled for the zero.
Pictures help, and I have been told if you are zero'ing at 100y you should not have weather enabled for the zero.
01 - "Real AB" is Applied Ballistics v2.2.1 on my phone.
Right now I have just entered one gun/cartridge combination I have been shooting for the last several weeks, for testing.
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I'll start uploading some screen shots ...
==
In the mean time, I looked at the onlline manual for 03
(03 is Kestrel 5700 Elite AB Link version 1.22)
I see an menu option called "MV Cal"
This looks like an "adjustment" capability to the output of the formula. That is, if the 03 output does not match the 01 output, then I can enter an adjustment to try to make them closer?
==
That goes back to my question, which is are the AB formulae implemented in the Kestrel 5700 Elite AB "exactly" the same as those in the 01 "Real AB".
It is starting to look like they are not. If "adjustments" might be needed to the Kestrel to make it get close to the Real AB?
If so, that is fine, I'm just trying to figure that out.
==
I'm a mathematician by training ... so if I have 2 devices that each implement "X + Y" ... and if I enter X=1 and Y=2 .. then (assuming both devices implement the same formulae exactly ... and use the integer data type) ... I should get the output "3" on both devices ... exactly. Not 2.997 ... not 3.001 .. but "3" exactly on both devices.
If one device implemented the formula as "X + Y" and the other implemented the formulae (using floating point) as "X + (1.0001)* Y" ... then I would expect to get different answers .. though I could use an "adjustment" and perhaps make the output the same.
Right now I have just entered one gun/cartridge combination I have been shooting for the last several weeks, for testing.
==
I'll start uploading some screen shots ...
==
In the mean time, I looked at the onlline manual for 03
(03 is Kestrel 5700 Elite AB Link version 1.22)
I see an menu option called "MV Cal"
This looks like an "adjustment" capability to the output of the formula. That is, if the 03 output does not match the 01 output, then I can enter an adjustment to try to make them closer?
==
That goes back to my question, which is are the AB formulae implemented in the Kestrel 5700 Elite AB "exactly" the same as those in the 01 "Real AB".
It is starting to look like they are not. If "adjustments" might be needed to the Kestrel to make it get close to the Real AB?
If so, that is fine, I'm just trying to figure that out.
==
I'm a mathematician by training ... so if I have 2 devices that each implement "X + Y" ... and if I enter X=1 and Y=2 .. then (assuming both devices implement the same formulae exactly ... and use the integer data type) ... I should get the output "3" on both devices ... exactly. Not 2.997 ... not 3.001 .. but "3" exactly on both devices.
If one device implemented the formula as "X + Y" and the other implemented the formulae (using floating point) as "X + (1.0001)* Y" ... then I would expect to get different answers .. though I could use an "adjustment" and perhaps make the output the same.
I am guessing one of the purposes of 04 (Kestrel AB Link app) is to enable updating of the Kestrel. But I have been unable to get the Kestrel AB Link app to connect to the Kestrel. So perhaps I need to update the Kestrel AB link app first, in order to get it to connect to the Kestrel. Trying to figure out how to "trigger" an upgrade for the Kestrel AB Link App
Been racking my brain on this for a while now. After discussing this with some fellow ballistic nerds. we have come to realize that the kestrel 5700 elite does not allow for DA corrected zero. Nor does it have a place to enter DA when zeroing. This seems like a flaw. I’m not sure why there is no potion for this entry. Moreover why is it impossible to enter in DA manually to allow for the creation of DA corrected data cards (for use in failed electronics situations). In the app it’s possible to enter DA separately, why not in the kestrel. Does Kestrel or Applied Ballistics have a reason for these two absences? Anyone have a real idea why this is the case?
Because it uses the components that make up DA (pressure temp and humidity) in the background. If you want to know what the DA is when you zero, just look at it in the weather mode.
I don’t want to just know what my da is when I zero, I want my kestrel to know what the DA was WHEN I zeroed.
