But no. They had to create Quebec Biker War tier casualties.
Like a bunch of Richard Jewells that got hired.
Like a bunch of Richard Jewells that got hired.
- Thread starter GreenGO Juan
- Start date
Thats because you jumped in the middle of a conversation yelling and screaming. Not aware of the specific topic. I wasn't talking about the Documentary, at that point.
But now that you mention it they did record the voices of the guys yelling burn it, as they had micro phones monitoring the property, which was mentioned in the documentary.
That ground you are standing on... seem to be quick sand. Let me know if you need a rope.
You're so fill of shit homey. Read that shit. That's your Australian boy in 99 saying something totally different under oath, recounting his testimony from 93. He said he thought he heard someone say something.
At that point he had been sitting in prison for 6 years. After changing his story, his sentence was reduced significantly. Hmmmm
You're so fill of shit homey. Read that shit. That's your Australian boy in 99 saying something totally different under oath, recounting his testimony from 93. He said he thought he heard someone say something.
At that point he had been sitting in prison for 6 years. After changing his story, his sentence was reduced significantly. Hmmmm
4 Q. All right. Please continue with the
10:00 15 description of what you heard.
16 A. Shortly after his second call that the
17 building was on fire -- I'm not certain exact period of
18 time. It may have been about 30 seconds later -- he
19 said -- another call came and said, Light the fire.
10:01 20 That was the point I left the chapel.
Did the warrant specify VernKor could be arrested only at the compound?
So they are running around the building with gas cans... The building was obviously burned with a accelerant.
You're so fill of shit homey. Read that shit. That's your Australian boy in 99 saying something totally different under oath, recounting his testimony from 93. He said he thought he heard someone say something.
At that point he had been sitting in prison for 6 years. After changing his story, his sentence was reduced significantly. Hmmmm
But your conclusion is they didn't burn it... You are not the sharpest tool in the shop.
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Search Warrant
United States District Court Western District of TexasSEARCH WARRANT W93-15M
In the Matter of the Search of residence of Vernon Wayne Howell, and others, Rt . 7, Box 471-B, AKA: Mount Carmel Center, McLennan County, TX, its appurtenances, vehicles, underground structures located on entire premises of the 77 acre compound. See attached photos & property description Attachments A, B and C.
Link to warrant. http://www.jaedworks.com/shoebox/waco.html
You're a lot more trusting of the government than the founding fathers.
The Founding Fathers are the government...
I swear, it's like I'm taking to my democrat BIL.
Did you get your answers on the warrant??
2 times I tried to tell you it was for the address and you didn't seem to hear it...
The warrnet wasn't for Vernon... it was for the cults compound.
So the argument of arresting him out side is laughable... Especially seeing as they burned the place down with a dozen or so cans of gas.
They were all about rules for thee but not for me.
Racist Gun Laws and the Second Amendment - Harvard Law Review
For a significant portion of American history, gun laws bore the ugly taint of racism. The founding generation that wrote the Second Amendment had...
harvardlawreview.org If you wana get in to a right to bear arms debate then mention the slave owning founding fathers... I am game.
But do so in another thread.
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They had tons of fuel in the building. One reason they were able to hold out so long was that they had fuel and generators. You thought all of those lights were on inside for 51 days because the atf forgot to turn the power off? They were preppers way before it was cool. That was why the ATF was there to begin with. You aren't allowed to buy loads of firearms and ammo to prevent the government from doing exactly what they did.
Wanna hear something interesting? Koresh told them the entire time they were prepping that the government would eventually show up and try to kill them all. Well, maybe he was a prophet.
gun control was founded in racism, no secret there. That is the angle to fight the lefties but we're collectively stupid
Sounds like he got what he wanted.
Matthew 7:15–20), Jesus warns his followers of false prophets: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles?
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That is one of the most brilliant things I have heard you say. Bravo!!
FBI And Other Agencies Paid Informants $548 Million In Recent Years With Many Committing Authorized Crimes
The FBI spent an average of $42 million a year on confidential human sources between fiscal years 2012 and 2018.
www.forbes.com Liar!View attachment 8118571
FBI And Other Agencies Paid Informants $548 Million In Recent Years With Many Committing Authorized Crimes
The FBI spent an average of $42 million a year on confidential human sources between fiscal years 2012 and 2018.
I would be wary of the ones trying to scarlet letter me. For they are the ones who want you to believe the nutter waco shit.
That would be my point. I don’t understand why many can’t see that there is more than option 1 he was evil and the government was right, or option 2 your a David fanboy. Option 3 is he was probably guilty concerning underage girls, and that the government especially was a murdering group of bastards that day. I say probably guilty of sex crimes only because they burned him and most of the witnesses alive before they could have a trial. Let’s review:
1). The ATF has always been a useless and unconstitutional agency responsible for multiple massacres. They have a history of loving high profile arrests they can put on camera. They could have simply arrested him any given day, per reports he was in town often and wasn’t a recluse by any standard.
2. They rolled through a small area in broad daylight where everyone including friends of Koresh could see them well before the raid in a line of black government SUV’s and trailers full of guys in tactical gear. Any idiot realizes that the compound was going to be called, a compound already believing that the government was going to come for them.
3. After the initial siege failed the government used every means at their disposal to escalate the situation instead of trying to get them to come out. They set up loudspeakers playing metal music 24/7 to keep the people inside awake and on edge, and pumped enough of a tear gas substance into the buildings to blind a small nation. The version they used while wet isn’t flammable, but dry it becomes a accelerant. So they entire inside was coated in a highly flammable substance.
3. There was thermal imaging video of the entire event available for you to see, it clearly shows at least 2 government snipers who fired into the compound while they were supposedly trying to negotiate, getting shot at isn’t very conducive to convincing people they should walk out of the buildings.
4. The thermal imaging clearly shows the fire started when the last armored vehicle was tearing down the wall in that room, which as previously mentioned was covered in a flammable substance because of the tear gas(as was a large percentage of the compound. The fire did not start in the room that the davidians were huddled in trying to avoid the tear gas. Wether the fire was a accident from the tank pushing through the wall or on purpose from the vehicle setting off some kind of flair is unclear, but the government one way or another started the fire.
So I don’t have to be on one team or the other, I can look at the evidence and see Koresh was unhinged and probably a child abuser and see it was a normal murderous ATF raid that killed a number of innocent people including kids.
You're correct Juan! All those people stood by and watched their "god" sexually abuse their children. All of them! Nobody escaped from the torture when the ATF arrived, they were likely held at gun point and/or stayed because they enjoyed watching their "god" rape thier kids. Then when it got close to the end, they lit the place on fire to avoid jail time. Better to BURN alive than escape and face the music. Fucking pedos, all of them! Of course they lit themselves on fire, the same day cannisters were thrown inside.....how could I have been so stupid!
The survivors, they have all come forward over the years and thanked the ATF/FBI for saving them from having to endure one more day of watching their "god", rape their kids. All of the "twisted" survivors that got out alive, well they have spent most of their adult lives behind bars, because they were all so "twisted".
The ATF/FBI were the heros in this, and the death of four agents was horrible. Most here believe that media and law enforcement twist a story to cover a narrative......except you and I Juan. We are on the same page. Davidians bad, feds good! Vaccines good, covid bad! Mask good, no mask bad! Biden good for the country, Trump bad! I got so tired of all the racist remarks out of Trumps mouth!
I'm so glad I watched that documentary. For years I thought the feds were the bad guys. Now that I heard about a woman experiencing great sex with her "god"; the young girl crying over her dead dad and having fun riding go-carts; the fat guy talking about a federal agency raiding his home; a reporter talk about the 1000s of rounds being exchanged between the two; oh, and let's not forget the badass HRT guy (Chris "BADASS" Whitcomb) talk about them shooting at him while burning to their death. All of these horror stories, plus your posted warrant.......I'm now convinced it was the pedophiles that caused this shit show. Thanks Juan!
We should meet up sometime.....do you still have the leather strap outfit?
The survivors, they have all come forward over the years and thanked the ATF/FBI for saving them from having to endure one more day of watching their "god", rape their kids. All of the "twisted" survivors that got out alive, well they have spent most of their adult lives behind bars, because they were all so "twisted".
The ATF/FBI were the heros in this, and the death of four agents was horrible. Most here believe that media and law enforcement twist a story to cover a narrative......except you and I Juan. We are on the same page. Davidians bad, feds good! Vaccines good, covid bad! Mask good, no mask bad! Biden good for the country, Trump bad! I got so tired of all the racist remarks out of Trumps mouth!
I'm so glad I watched that documentary. For years I thought the feds were the bad guys. Now that I heard about a woman experiencing great sex with her "god"; the young girl crying over her dead dad and having fun riding go-carts; the fat guy talking about a federal agency raiding his home; a reporter talk about the 1000s of rounds being exchanged between the two; oh, and let's not forget the badass HRT guy (Chris "BADASS" Whitcomb) talk about them shooting at him while burning to their death. All of these horror stories, plus your posted warrant.......I'm now convinced it was the pedophiles that caused this shit show. Thanks Juan!
We should meet up sometime.....do you still have the leather strap outfit?
Why, yes I did.
"The warrant authorized Koresh's arrest for federal firearms and explosives violations."
Report to the Deputy Attorney General on the Events at Waco, Texas: Executive Summary
This is archived content from the U.S. Department of Justice website. The information here may be outdated and links may no longer function. Please contact [email protected] if you have any questions about the archive site.
www.justice.gov Seems the ATF's primary mission was weapons. Kids were a secondary concern.
Somebody here doesn’t know how religious cults work…
They weren’t “hostages” they were brainwashed to believe that this dude was the second coming of Christ. I guess that’s “Christianity” to some of you. I’m sure it’s all a conspiracy and they were just good ole’ Christian folk who were 2A martyrs. Yep that’s more believable.
They weren’t “hostages” they were brainwashed to believe that this dude was the second coming of Christ. I guess that’s “Christianity” to some of you. I’m sure it’s all a conspiracy and they were just good ole’ Christian folk who were 2A martyrs. Yep that’s more believable.
Yeah, I don't remember the part in the Bible where Jesus said stockpile weapons and fight the man.
Fuck the adults. I'm more concerned with a fed agency having a hand in killing kids that did not decide to be there. Don't care who started the fire. According to the experts here,the ATF knew what to expect. Rather than pick up Koresh away from the compound and try to negotiate with someone possibly less "committed," they tried a frontal assault. Either they're stupid or little kids are acceptable collateral damage...or both.
Religion NEVER gets used to justify a charismatic cult leader’s personal wants. Never. This dude was obviously the second coming of Christ. The Feds just don’t want you to go to heaven so they perverted this clear incarnation of God’s message.
Repent you foul sinner!
That's the problem. People follow a religion...not to be confused with God.
Just in case it wasn’t clear, my comment wasn’t directed at you.
I’ll say it again, I’m firmly against the governments actions that day, and frankly I’m really not surprised by them. While the leader may have deserved to burn alive (the parents deserved judgement too, but they were brainwashed and vulnerable(see any cult m.o. on recruitment)) but a government should not be the one to execute its own citizens without concern for collateral damage.
My whole opinion is still that the kids were still the only innocents here. Reading some of the psychologist testimonies regarding the childrens state of mind after this debacle is sickening.
It was/is the same shit in iraq/afgh/Yemen/Middle East. The “leaders” keep the followers ignorant on the actual text and then “interpret” it for them to direct the followers to do what they want. This has been going on for thousands of years.
Have you heard these people speak... the ones who survived are still committed to this very day.
I don't think it would have mattered, they could have arrested him on the moon. And those at the compound would have still fought, they definitely would have been on alert/defensce had he been arrested making getting into the compound a fight.
If you wana talk mistakes, I think the mistake they made was going along with the raid after the element of surprise was lost. Just as arresting him would have lost that element.
I personally feel the arrest Vernon out side the compound is a failed plan too.
Pure speculation, but it is very possible that an arrest of Koresh would have been viewed as literally the kidnapping of Christ to his followers. This is how they viewed him. If Christ were to return and the government kidnapped and imprisoned him, how do you think the devout Christian’s of this country would react? Would you just calmly turn yourself over? Or would you fight?
Food for though, speculation as stated.
Food for though, speculation as stated.
In their state they would have seen everything he said coming true. These cats were brain washed, heavily
There is a reason he weaved the story he did, because he knew he was on the wrong side of the law.
30 years after they created their own apocalypse... the rest are still here and the world is still turning.
Right, every time someone on here posts “ hE pReDiCtEd ThIs WoUlD hApPeN!
…..
Well yeah, Ray Charles could have seen this coming.
Didn't try so we'll never know.
From your link...
At 12:07 p.m., the Davidians started simultaneous fires at three or more different locations within the compound. This was established by a team of independent arson experts; by video shot from an aircraft utilizing Forward Looking Infrared Radar (FLIR) technology; by observations of FBI agents who saw an individual appearing to light one of the fires; by statements from survivors admitting that the Davidians set the fires; and by [material redacted as required by statute). The fires rapidly engulfed the compound in flames and smoke.
At approximately 12:25 p.m., the FBI agents closest to the compound heard what they described as "systematic" gunfire. Many agents believed at the time that those inside were killing themselves, killing each other, or both.
The remains of 75 individuals (50 adults and 25 children under age 15) were recovered in the ruins of the compound. At least 17 of those individuals died of gunshot wounds, including several children. Another child was stabbed to death. In addition to the 75 persons who died during the April 19 fire, five other bodies, all with gunshot wounds, also were recovered. Those five bodies were of the Davidians presumably killed during the February 28 shootout with the ATF. Some of those five bodies showed evidence of having been shot from inside the compound. At least one of those five bodies showed evidence of suicide.
--------- Likely would have resulted in a similar action------------
They Suicided themselves.
Had they handled this like big boys, they'd still be alive and likely been out of prison years ago.
I'm not positive, but I think I may have been brainwashed by the Sniper's Hide cult. I wake up everyday wanting to buy another gun and some more ammo.
Okay, if they had arrested Koresh at the Baskin Robins it may have ended the same. Didn't try, so we'll never know.
Maybe I've been mislead, but I thought LE was held to a higher standard than a group of wackadoodles. "A bunch of kids died, not our fault, we got the guns, mission successful."
That’s the damned truth, everyday on here I see another gun that I want to buy or build.
You’ve been misled. They’re supposed to be, but instances like this and recent ones will show you they’re not held to hardly any standard at all.
It depends on who is interpreting the results. I guarantee you those atf/fbi agents were congratulated on a job well done. In fact, one of those blood soaked monsters was almost promoted to the head of the atf last year
Its not what happened... correct. You could create countless imaginary out comes. Chase your tail. Deal with the reality of what happened, not your imaginary potential.
And many involved, consider it a failure. Everyone has opinions, but you making that as a blanket statement, that they don't care is unequivocally false.
Did you watch the end of the OG documentary...
If that was a job well done, we wouldn’t still be talking about it.
I’ve never worked in any dog killing department, but in any mission I’ve been on, that much collateral damage would have never been acceptable. Me, and my whole team would still be in Leavenworth to this day. A failure at every level.
I seriously doubt anyone considered that a success. Successes don’t try to get swept under the rug.
Neither fight or turn myself over. Knowing what the details are for the second coming would point out the false prophet
I would go to Dairy Queen and get a large blizzard. Maybe take my dogs to the beach. I dunno… kind of a “treat yo’self day”.
Fedbois are held to a high standard…of degeneracy.
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