Rifle Scopes New 5-25x50 Vudu

jonthomps

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    PSA: Just saw this on CS Tactical's FB feed. That's a lot of scope packed into 11.2".
     

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    Pusher591

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    Is this a relatively new brand??? Never heard of it...

    Yea it’s very new, it will be shown off at SHOT. Strait from the horses mouth, EOTech claims glass and clarity to rival or be better then the Vortex Gen II’s. Two reticles will be offered initially. One is their MD3 Mil and the other is the H59. The elevation turret locks and wind age is capped. It’s still in proto type status and I was told production is likely slated for July. That’s all the details I know right now.
     

    Glassaholic

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  • Nov 30, 2012
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    EOtech has it up on their website now, MSRP is $2099 fulfilling my first hope for this scope - that they would keep the price within reason. Not a Horus fan so hoping the MD3 is something nice and that the glass lives up to the claims Pusher mentions above, that it would rival the Vortex Gen II, if they can do that and the MD3 reticle is usable and the mechanics hold up, then this scope may find it's way onto many covert shorties and large frame AR's in the near future!

    I believe there was a post on the old Hide site by BigJimFish who said the Vudu line is made by LOW in Japan, the same group who puts out the Vortex Razor Gen II, if that holds to be true, this could truly be one viable optic as it presents the first real threat to the venerable Schmidt & Bender Ultra Shorts but priced to compete in a market segment under the Razor Gen II's. This, IMO, is a very smart move by EOTech who doesn't yet have an established name in the high magnification optics arena, so instead of pricing themselves out of competition they have priced themselves to be extremely competitive. Hopefully these scopes prove to be an excellent option.

    Here's info from their website - http://www.eotechinc.com/precision-r...du-5-25x50-ffp
    The New Vudu 5-25 x 50 mm is ideal for the short platform rifles. At approximately 11.2 inches in length, the 5-25x is one of the shortest first focal plane rifle scopes on the market. The elevation turret includes a push/pull locking system and EOTECH’s EZ Chek Zero Stop allowing for quick adjustments and return to zero. One unique advantage of the short design is that it provides the ability to attach either a clip-on night-vision or thermal device in front of the scope and still allow the user to make adjustments to the device without leaving the scope.

    Now if only they offered military discount

    EOTech Vudu 5-25x56.jpg
     
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    Tunnuh

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    Curious to hear feedback and see what the md3 is like. Anyone handled the 3-18 to comment on the quality?
     

    ksanoski

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    I've had my hands on a 3-18 and I thought the glass was excellent when compared to my Gen 2 razor, I didn't see much difference with both set on 18x. The only problem I saw was the lack of reticles and the 3-18 power. For PRS I need more magnification than 18x. I will definitely keep my eyes on this one esp. at the $2099 price, I would love to get my hands on one to check out. I haven't seen many at PRS matches but then again I would say it was due to the 3-18x. If the model I had was 5-25 I would still be using it.
     

    Just Macca

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    Weight and eyebox are the only concerns now. If its 30oz and flexible with head position, they'll sell a million.
     

    M77

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    watching with interest , could be a 5-20 schmidt alternative ..
    capped windage really ..
     

    koshkin

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  • Feb 22, 2006
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    Ilya, just curious, what could be the optical or opto-mechanical compromises associated with super short scopes like this, if any?

    Quite a few. Some are easier to overcome than others.
    This comes up every once in a while, so I should probably make a blog post out of it.
    I'll do so later today.

    ILya
     

    Vargmat

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    Are none of you guys curious to why Eotech is the only company (to my knowledge) that states the adjustment on each of their scopes as "Approx. 0.1 MRAD" and "Approx. 0.25 MOA". It makes me wonder, what is it really? Is it 1.1 MRAD on one scope and 0.95 on another?
     
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    Glassaholic

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    Quite a few. Some are easier to overcome than others.
    This comes up every once in a while, so I should probably make a blog post out of it.
    I'll do so later today.

    ILya

    I would be very interested in reading that. I remember thinking the same thing with the March 3-24x42 way back, how could they fit a 3-24 optical formula into such a compact housing. In fact, I think you were one of the Hiders who highly recommended the March to me in one of my first posts about Lightweight Tactical Scopes some years ago and I didn't believe the March would impress me, but it did and I became a believer.

    Also, out of curiosity, I want to say that when Vortex released the Razor Gen II they explained that they sent their requirements to LOW and basically LOW is the one who created the final designs. Is that how this works with a lot of these companies who don't manufacture their own scopes? In other words, is it possible that EOTech sent their requirements (we want an 11" 5-25x50 scope) to LOW and LOW is the one who designed the final optical formula and all that?
     

    Tunnuh

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    Quite a few. Some are easier to overcome than others.
    This comes up every once in a while, so I should probably make a blog post out of it.
    I'll do so later today.

    ILya

    Where can I find your blog?
     

    SRPowah

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    Damn...and here I thought I was done buying optics. If it proves to be reliable and reticle meets my expecations, I might end up selling my S&B 5-20US so I can buy two of these for my long guns.
     

    Glassaholic

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    If it proves to be reliable and reticle meets my expecations, I might end up selling my S&B 5-20US ...

    I think that is the question on many of our minds - can this scope offer a viable alternative to the Schmidt Ultra Shorts. If this scope were released by Vortex I'd have little doubt; however, since EOTech is so new to the high magnification scope arena I am a bit trepidatious (especially at the price point), that being said, there is good reason to believe these scopes are being built by LOW, the same group that does the Razor Gen II which obviously has an excellent reputation for having great glass, great eye box and great mechanics. If this new VUDU 5-25x50 can get close to the Razor Gen II in glass and eye box and match it in mechanical reliability, well then, we may have a game changer. That is a lot of if's that we'll have to wait at least 6 months for is my guess before we start seeing these trickle into competent hands.
     

    koshkin

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  • Feb 22, 2006
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    Now that the Hide is back up, here are some thoughts on the compromises involved with ultra short designs:
    http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2107

    I'll go check it out at SHOT and let you know what I think.

    As far as working with LOW goes, they are a full spectrum OEM, where they can offer a few house designs (that many companies can use), do custom design for you (that they can not offer to anyone else), or simply be the manufacturer for your design.

    We do not know which this shorty scope is. I assume that EOTech would not release this scope if it wasn't viable, but the prrof is inthe pudding, so to speak.

    ILya
     

    steve123

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    That was a good description and it helped me understand better.

    It's cool to have some basic knowledge of how rifle scopes work on the inside now. I didn't realize there was that many lens elements in a modern riflescope!!!

    Thanks Ilya, for taking the time to show us this in a video!
     

    RFutch

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    Now that the Hide is back up, here are some thoughts on the compromises involved with ultra short designs:
    http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2107

    I'll go check it out at SHOT and let you know what I think.

    As far as working with LOW goes, they are a full spectrum OEM, where they can offer a few house designs (that many companies can use), do custom design for you (that they can not offer to anyone else), or simply be the manufacturer for your design.

    We do not know which this shorty scope is. I assume that EOTech would not release this scope if it wasn't viable, but the prrof is inthe pudding, so to speak.

    ILya

    So what compromises does the Mk6 3-18 have given it’s lightweight and cheaper than a March?

    Thanks for the video.
     
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    Glassaholic

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    With the announcement of the new Kahles K318i shorty but at a Tangent Theta price point, that makes this EOTech 5-25x50 shorty all the more interesting for me. If EOTech did not cripple the FOV at 5x and their mechanics prove to be reliable this scope could be one heck of a bargain at its price point, kudo's to EOTech for getting the price right and not trying to charge near $4000, but I am trepidatious because with optics you tend to get what you pay for. Let's assume for a moment that the Vudu 5-25x50 glass is no better than say the Bushnell DMR IIi, as long as the FOV at 5x works out well, I still think this will be one heck of a scope at that price and if the glass is closer to the Razor Gen II series then this will find its way onto a lot of rigs I believe. What we really need from EOTech now is for a full spec sheet to come out, hopefully by next week.
     

    Glassaholic

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    ILya, that was a fantastic video , thank you for throwing that together. I especially loved how you brought up the design of the Henny 4-16x56, that is still one of my favorite designs and if they offered one today with the MSR2 reticle I'd probably prefer it over many because of the large 56mm objective. I was hoping the Kahles K318i would follow suite, because if the Kahles was a 3.5-18x56 design that would differentiate it significantly from the S&B 3-20 Ultra Short. You also make an interesting point about the weight and you are correct, no where does EOTech mention how heavy the new scope is, I was hoping it would be under 35oz but expect it to be closer to 40. This does make me wonder how Schmidt got their 5-20 and 3-20 Ultra Shorts to be below 32oz, undoubtedly part of what you're paying for with those designs.
     
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    Glassaholic

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    Was looking at the scope again and couldn't help but notice that while the scope is only 11.2" long, the front objective is set rather far back from the front housing reminiscent of the Minox ZP5 5-25x56 design, almost looks like EOTech could have shaved another .5 - .75" off and made it even shorter, but part of what I like about this design is it acts as a mini sunshade. I wonder if the scope is prone to issues with flare which is why they designed it this way?

    EOTech_Vudu_5-25x50.jpg
     

    goober23

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    ILya, that was a fantastic video , thank you for throwing that together. I especially loved how you brought up the design of the Henny 4-16x56, that is still one of my favorite designs and if they offered one today with the MSR2 reticle I'd probably prefer it over many because of the large 56mm objective. I was hoping the Kahles K318i would follow suite, because if the Kahles was a 3.5-18x56 design that would differentiate it significantly from the S&B 3-20 Ultra Short. You also make an interesting point about the weight and you are correct, no where does EOTech mention how heavy the new scope is, I was hoping it would be under 35oz but expect it to be closer to 40. This does make me wonder how Schmidt got their 5-20 and 3-20 Ultra Shorts to be below 32oz, undoubtedly part of what you're paying for with those designs.
    According to Eotech, this scope will weigh 29.5oz with a battery.
     

    Glassaholic

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    29.5oz?!? That's too good to be true, makes me worried they used plastic lenses and not glass. This just keeps getting better (I hope), now if only the FOV at 5x is above 20' at 100 yards, here's to hoping.
     

    koshkin

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  • Feb 22, 2006
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    So what compromises does the Mk6 3-18 have given it’s lightweight and cheaper than a March?

    Thanks for the video.

    Considering the price range, Mk6 is not very good optically and I suspect that it is primarily a consequence of trying to keep it short and light. Depth of field is shallow and color rendering is comparatively poor. Resolution is sorta OK.

    However, when it was introduced, there was nothing like it in that size/weight range and that counts for a lot. The market is different now, so I am very curious to see what the Mark 5 looks like.

    ILya
     
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    koshkin

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    That was a good description and it helped me understand better.

    It's cool to have some basic knowledge of how rifle scopes work on the inside now. I didn't realize there was that many lens elements in a modern riflescope!!!

    Thanks Ilya, for taking the time to show us this in a video!

    You are welcome. I might do more of these general educational videos if you guys think they are helpful.

    ILya
     

    koshkin

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    29.5oz?!? That's too good to be true, makes me worried they used plastic lenses and not glass. This just keeps getting better (I hope), now if only the FOV at 5x is above 20' at 100 yards, here's to hoping.

    29 ozs would be very impressive. As a general consideration, I would not worry about use of plastic optical elements too much. For these instruments, in the places where you can use plastic fairly easily, you will not save that much weight, and it can bring in other issues.

    If I were to make a guess, I'd guess that greater use of aspheres and exotic materials helps cut down on weight.

    That all having been said, I've seen some optical systems made primarily with plastic components that offered very impressive imaging performance. If the engineering team knows what it's doing, use of plastic optical components would not concern me in the slightest. Modern plastics are very good optically, extremely durable and more impact resistant than glass. They are not as stable thermally, which is a problem for riflescopes and the scratch comparatively easily, but that is alleviated by scratch resistant coatings.

    A guy I used to know at Lincoln Labs published an interesting paper some years back on use of plastics in SWIR lenses. He made a very compelling case that if you are working in a particular weight budget, you can achieve higher performance with plastic than with glass, simply because you can use substantially larger pieces due to their lighter weight.

    ILya
     

    Vargmat

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    ILya; your video was highly informative and I for one, would definitely like to se more.

    Im still curious to why EoTech lists their scope adjustment in approximation and not as a set value. Not that I expect you to answer this, but its something that seems to go by unnoticed.
    Oh, and ILya in your video you talk about "depth of field" being something that can be compromised in shorter scopes?
    How come that the Kahles K624i which is the size of a kids baseball bat has a surprisingly shallow depth of field, in spite of its size and 4x magnification ratio.
     

    koshkin

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    ILya; your video was highly informative and I for one, would definitely like to se more.

    Im still curious to why EoTech lists their scope adjustment in approximation and not as a set value. Not that I expect you to answer this, but its something that seems to go by unnoticed.
    Oh, and ILya in your video you talk about "depth of field" being something that can be compromised in shorter scopes?
    How come that the Kahles K624i which is the size of a kids baseball bat has a surprisingly shallow depth of field, in spite of its size and 4x magnification ratio.

    There are many ways to compromise depth of field and it is entirely possible to do it in a scope that is quite long. Shallow depth of field is one of the things I do not like in Kahles K624i scopes, despite the fact that I like the design overall. Remember that all three of the optical systems inside a scope have an impact. Also, Kahles has a very wide FOV, which can make it a little bit more difficult to achieve high depth of field.

    Conversely, one of the things I really like about Tangent Theta: extremely generous depth of field. Cuts down on how much time I have to spend messing with the side focus, although you still have to be mindful of parallax.

    As far as why EOTech lists their clicks that way, I have no idea. It is technically a more appropriate way to list a specification than to simply state "0.1mrad". There is a tolerance to every specification

    ILya
     

    Vargmat

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    ILya, thanks for your speedy reply.
    I am one of the guys that wants to like the Kahles k624i but every time I look through one, I get reminded why I will never buy one.
    I have never looked through a TT scope, hell, I wonder if there are a single TT scope in Sweden? But thats another story. To keep things going on topic, the Vudu does look interesting.
    And I know that there are tolerance to every spec, but does not scope adjustment really come down to thread pitch? And that is something that has been figured out long ago.
     

    koshkin

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    ILya, thanks for your speedy reply.
    I am one of the guys that wants to like the Kahles k624i but every time I look through one, I get reminded why I will never buy one.
    I have never looked through a TT scope, hell, I wonder if there are a single TT scope in Sweden? But thats another story. To keep things going on topic, the Vudu does look interesting.
    And I know that there are tolerance to every spec, but does not scope adjustment really come down to thread pitch? And that is something that has been figured out long ago.

    Thread pitch also has a tolerance and there is more to click value than just thread pitch. There is a reason there is so much IP around turret design.

    Optical system of Tangent Theta is likely related to that of Minox ZP scopes (they share the same Optronika lineage), so you can use that as rough proxy. TT is a little better to my eyes based on a few scopes I have seen.

    ILya
     

    Glassaholic

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  • Nov 30, 2012
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    Come on EOTech, we would like some more official specs. Also, would like to see details on the new MD3 reticle. Hopefully a lot more information will be available by the end of SHOT... I contemplated going this year but the serious lack of any rumors on any new scopes that excited me caused me to put it off, little did I know this would be one of the best years for new ultra short scope designs!
     

    Primus

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    Can't wait to see this hit expercity....the other Vudu are at a verrrrrry attractive price and the 1-6 is an awesome optic. One of the very best lpv on the market.
     

    Glassaholic

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    Thank you for sharing Goober. 33 mils of elevation and 30 mils of windage... more than enough for most. Also, 29.5oz confirmed. Nice that they used my favorite rings - ARC. Were they allowing anyone to look through the scope?

    A 5-25 ultra short less than 30oz, that is crazy, the big question is whether or not they compromised IQ to get everything in such a short package. Anxiously awaiting ILya's feedback...
     
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    goober23

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    Thank you for sharing Goober. 33 mils of elevation and 30 mils of windage... more than enough for most. Also, 29.5oz confirmed. Nice that they used my favorite rings - ARC. Were they allowing anyone to look through the scope?

    A 5-25 ultra short less than 30oz, that is crazy, the big question is whether or not they compromised IQ to get everything in such a short package. Anxiously awaiting ILya's feedback...
    Unfortunately I am not at the show, just a video that I found that I thought I'd share with everyone.