New Lilja barrel..won't exract
- Thread starter 1911Operator
- Start date
What are you using for "fired brass"?
If it was fired in a looser chamber of course it's going to be tight and not want to extract.
I've seen about 50/50 on bentz chambers letting go of live rounds. I think reamer wear and qc tolerances are to blame along with individual gun extractor tolerance.
If it was fired in a looser chamber of course it's going to be tight and not want to extract.
I've seen about 50/50 on bentz chambers letting go of live rounds. I think reamer wear and qc tolerances are to blame along with individual gun extractor tolerance.
It was brass fired from my CZ barrel.. you have a good point.. never thought of that !
I made it to the range today.. 28 degrees.. little wind, but was it was cold.. Started out with CCI SV.. First 3 shots and each one extracted.. then went 0 for 5 on the following shots.. All failed to extract.. I switched to SK Standard Plus.. All rounds extracted !! Things were looking up.. shot around 60-70 rounds (SK), all but maybe one or 2 didn't extract.. switched back to CCI and 1 out of 4 extracted.. I was cold and decided to call it a day.. I don't have a problem with shooting only Match ammo.. The barrel was stupid accurate @ 50 yards.. didn't precisely measure the groups, but all were around .375" to no more that .500" all 5 shots touching.. I'm pleased with the performance of the barrel for just putting about 75 rounds through it.. a quick swipe of a dry patch through the barrel and chamber as per Lilja instructions, and will back at the range soon..
Have you taken it to the range and tried to shoot it ?? I took mine out today.. It wouldn't extract CCI SV very well.. the shell would stick in the chamber after being fired..I switched over to SK Standard Plus and it extracted every round except one or two out of 70.. I have around 75 or 80 rounds through the barrel now, and it is stupid accurate @ 50 yards.. Next range trip I'm taking some SK Rifle Match and Lapua Center X and shooting at 100 yards
I'd still get it fixed if you could. Dropping 2 shots in a match really blows due to an extraction issue.
I'm curious how does running more rounds through the barrel help with the extraction? Does the lead/brass eventually wear in the chamber? Unless there are some burrs you're trying to smooth out, I don't see how running more rounds help. I'd be curious to know and follow along your progress.
Sent my action and barrel to Lilja for repair. We'll see what the result is.
I used spent brass from my CZ barrel when I tested the extraction of the barrel after I installed it into the action.. with the CZ chamber being looser than the Lilja Match chamber, the brass expanded more and was a tight fit in the Lilja chamber making it difficult to extract.. I could put a shell into the chamber of the Lilja, and turn the rifle upside down and it didn't fall out.. TIGHT !! Once I started live fire with the Lilja barrel it seem to extract fine.. I did have one or two of SK Standard Plus that hung up, and CCI SV had issues.. maybe there is/was a small burr, not really sure.. but the SK shot and extracted well.. I only have 75 rounds through the barrel.. I'll get out again and see how it runs.. it is a Match chamber and it's tighter than a Benz Chamber so only time will tell.. but the rifle is VERY accurate !
19110erator. Hang in there as I believe Lilja will make it right. A shooting buddy has the Lilja barrel on his 457 and it is shooting VERY well (averages in the .3's at 50 yards and under 1" at 100 - weather permiting ) with CenterX with no extraction problems. I called Lilja while I was installing the barrel for my friend and they talked me through measuring and selecting the shims. Sounds as if your barrel needs a bit of extraction slot expansion, but I would let Lija either talk you through it or have them do it.
When the extraction problem is resolved you will love the barrel.
When the extraction problem is resolved you will love the barrel.
I sent Carson an email yesterday, telling him my results of my range trip.. I explained I was going out again this coming weekend and shoot another hundred or so rounds through it.. He got back to me this morning and said he looked at the photo of the barrel again and agreed that the left extractor groove seemed thick.. He said shoot it this weekend and see how it extracts.. If it isn't right he will fix it.. I'm very pleased with the way the barrel shoots, and the way Lilja has handled the matter..
Agree that they handled this correctly... it's just bad QC from a company charging $500 for a rimfire barrel.
It was only $440.. I've seen other barrels advertised for more without the match chamber and barrel.. I'm confident I made the right choice buying this barrel..and Lilja is making good on good on it.. sometimes things slip by QC.. no one is perfect
According to Carson, they’ve only sold about 30 of the RPRR barrels, so it’s a first run production, too. I agree, stuff happens. Hopefully, I get mine back soon.
Well, mine went back to Lilja. They cut the extraction cuts deeper, and said they tested it, and sent it back to me.
I put about 250 rounds through it and started getting FTEs again after 30 or so rounds.
I contacted Lilja again, and Carson asked me to clean it, and test it again.
I did that, with no change. I also tried several different ammo types other than the SK Standard Plus I usually shoot, Center X, CCI SV, Green Tag, RWS Rifle Match, Tenex, and ELEY Club. No noticeable difference to the issue between ammo types.
The only thing left to try is going back to the factory barrel, and seeing if the issue persists. Since I had 5,000 rounds through it prior to changing the barrel, I tend to doubt it will make a difference. But it’s the last thing I can do to conclusively identify the Issue as being solely with the Lilja barrel.
I put about 250 rounds through it and started getting FTEs again after 30 or so rounds.
I contacted Lilja again, and Carson asked me to clean it, and test it again.
I did that, with no change. I also tried several different ammo types other than the SK Standard Plus I usually shoot, Center X, CCI SV, Green Tag, RWS Rifle Match, Tenex, and ELEY Club. No noticeable difference to the issue between ammo types.
The only thing left to try is going back to the factory barrel, and seeing if the issue persists. Since I had 5,000 rounds through it prior to changing the barrel, I tend to doubt it will make a difference. But it’s the last thing I can do to conclusively identify the Issue as being solely with the Lilja barrel.
My barrel is on the way back home.. Carson said it appeared the extractor grooves were cut too deep. he re cut them amd test fired 50 rounds of SK Match that I had sent him.. He said it fired all 50 rounds and extracted them no problem.. I should have it Thursday.. we'll see how it goes
re cut the extractor grooves.. you could see one side of the extractor grooves weren't even close to the chamber.. the last time I shot it, it ran 57 straight rounds of SK Standard then 1 fte.. I switched to SK Rifle Match and 3 or 4 out of 10 would fail ro extract.. I shot 50 rounds of Center X and it was a little better with 1 or 2 in 10 fte..but still that is not going to cut it
1911..
A couple of questions..
1- Have you checked to make sure that your ejector's "claw" is in good shape? I've had a corner of the claw break off during NRL22 Nationals and my rifle would no longer extract a live or fired round. Swapped in a new one that evening and had no issues on the second day.
2- Is it possible that the c-spring has lost it's tension, or the extractor and holder grooves are gummed up or dirty?
3- This is the most important one.. Can you take another photo of the breaches of the Lilja and CZ barrel side by side again.. Now that the slots have been re-cut?
I can't speak for @1911Oerator but I ordered replacements for both the ejection spring and the extraction hook before I went to the new barrel as the issue. I also tried sharpening the original extraction hook, and taking a touch off the point of it as well, once I had a replacements in hand. Sharpening the extraction hook seemed to help for a few days, but not much, I still had consistent FTEs, they were just on the order of 1 in 20-25 rounds instead of one every mag. I also switched up my mags, to eliminate another variable.
I didn't get photos of the cuts before I reinstalled the barrel. Maybe when I swap the original barrel back on...
I'll try to get out to the range with the factory barrel sometime this next week.
Wow, that is insane. Talk to Carson, he will set you straight. Nah, on second thought you might hang up the phone being even madder before you called. He is not very people person oriented.
I'm pretty sure that is correct. I have mine boxed up ready to be sent to MPA or I would look at mine. I take it you found the bolt release lever?
Yup..found the lever, pin and spring floating around in the bottom of the box and in the packing paper.. I emailed Carson about it and he never got back to me.. Freaking outstanding customer service..
I'm still wondering why they had to take it out. Also, why they didn't put it back in before shipping the rifle. I truly hope you are happy with it. As I've said before, my 17 HM2 barrel shoots pretty good on my Sako Finnfire but it loads rough and carson is crabby. Therefore I can't buy anything else from them.
Just an update to my lilja barrel.. since I got it back from lilja, I've shot over 500 rounds without a single issue.. the barrel is really coming around and it keeps getting better everytime I go to the range..here are some groups I shot today..all at 50 yards in my new Manners stock..
I seriously doubt that they removed it KOD. If I remove either of my 457 actions from the stock and cycle the bolt several times, gravity and the movement of the bolt start working the pin out. My guess is that it started working it's way out of the action and then vibrated the rest of the way out while in transit to it's destination.
Note to everyone... If you ever ship your barreled action to Lapua or Killoughs for lot testing, or anywhere else for that matter, you'd be wise to put a piece of tape over the pin to prevent this exact thing from happening.
BTW.. Carson has been nothing but nice to me over the years.
Carson was more than helpful with me and took care of the extraction problem in a timely manner.. He paid for the shipping back to Lilja and of course to the return back to me.. I believe you're correct SaginSpecial that the release,pin, and spring just worked their way out in transit.. I'm just glad I found them.. The barrel shoots awesome so it was well worth the money
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