New Member - Discussion of my $1,000/1000 yard Rifle

[Infidel45]

Hello all,

I have been reading this forum for months and have learned a great deal on a variety of topics relating to long-distance shooting. I have now joined and am posting since I finally have something that may contribute and/or help someone make an informed decision.

First, I am not in the firearm/ammunition/firearm-hunting accessory industry in any capacity-I am an independent insurance adjuster. So any "name dropping" I do in this review is for info purposes only. I was never a sniper, but was an enlisted trooper in he 82nd Airborne in my youth (45 yrs old now). Also served as a uniformed Deputy Sheriff. Never shot long range (over 300 meters) but have been shooting long guns since I was 13 and hunting for many years. So my fundamentals are sound (I think) but am always trying to improve.

OK-on to it.

I decided to take up this sport around the first of the year when I blew out my ACL skiing over new years. I knew Golf and Wakeboarding were out this year and needed something to do that I didn't have to stress my healing knee during. Since I have always been interested in long range shooting, I decided now was the time. I did some research and decided on the Remington 700 in .308 (due to the ammo availability)-Total Cost: $630 out the door (local gun shop). Since I knew I would eventually want to shoot it suppressed, I went with the AAC/SD, 20" 1/10 threaded barrel version. From reading this forum, I knew an FFP optic was what I needed for a Mil-Dot Reticled scope but also knew there was no way I would be spending $1000 plus at that time. So more research into a more budget friendly (for more ammo to practice with) optic lead me to Primary Arms out of Houston, TX. I decided to go with their 4-14x FFP Mil-Mil Scope with Standard Mil-Dot Reticle. Total Cost: $237.00 shipped. Added a Weaver 20 MOA Base and Weaver Tactical Rings for another $70.00 from a local shop. To take advantage of the threaded barrel & recoil reduction, and since I know I will be shooting suppressed at some point, I decided on the Surefire Socom Muzzle Brake/Suppressor adapter since I will be going with their 7.62 Socom suppressor. Total Cost for brake from Silencershop.com-$129.00 shipped.

I already had the materials for the finish (Tan Spray on Bedliner, Spray Paint & Duracoat), so that cost was already absorbed. I did not include the cost of the Kinetic Research Bolt Lift ($28 + shipping from Brownells) since that is a personal option and doesn't affect the performance of the rifle. The Cheek Rest & Bipod I already had also.

Total Cost of Rifle as pictured: $1,066.00

The stock is Factory Hogue Overmold. I shimmed the action with strips cut from a pepsi can and removed some material from the fore-end so the barrel would not make contact when loaded on bi-pod. I can now take a FOLDED piece of printer paper and move it from fore-end to action without touching stock when resting on bi-pod.

A week ago I shot the groups pictured on the target from 375 & 600 yards (4 2/3" 6-shot group at 600, 1" 2-shot group at 600 and 1/4" 2-shot group at 375). This past weekend, I finally got the opportunity to shoot past 600 and was on steel from 800, 900 & 1040 yards in a 10-15mph gusty 4 o'clock wind with periods of heavy rain (3 mil wind hold was interesting). Will post some pics of that range also. I should also note that I am using Factory ammo-FGMM 168 & 175 gr BTHP, Remington Match 168 Gr BTHP, and some real M118LR 175gr that I can't talk about...

So, in summary, I truly believe it to be possible to take a factory Rem 700 with a short (by comparison to many) barrel, a <$300 FFP optic and a muzzle brake and engage targets at 1000 yards. With the caveat that if you use the Hogue stock, you gotta work it a little it that only costs time/labor.

Thanks to all of you who contribute...the information is priceless!View attachment 37876

 

[Infidel45]

As soon as I can figure out how to get the one pic I posted off my upload list, I will add some reduced file-size pics of the Rifle and range/target..

 

[banditbump]

That's awesome work. At 1k how many mils drop is the 175? Will the 168 get out there? Have you compared the primary arms scope to other high dollar glass at the range what is your opinion? I'm tempted to pick one up.....

 

[MarshallDodge]

Sounds like a nice economic way to get started. I have a friend that has the Remington ADL Varmint 223 and with some stock inletting and good reloads it will shoot 1/2" 5-shot groups.

Out of curiousity, how large was the steel you were shooting at 1K yards?

 

[Infidel45]

I started from a 400 yard Zero and adjusted (elevation only) with dialing and holdover as follows;

600 Yards: 2.5 Mils Dialed Up/25 clicks (54" Drop from 400yd setting) 1 Mil = 21.6" @ 600 Yards
800 Yards: 3 Mils Dialed Up/30 clicks (86" drop from 600 yard setting) 1 Mil = 28.8" @ 800 Yards
900 Yards: 2 Mil holdover from 800 Yard Turret Setting (65" drop from 800 Yard Setting) 1 Mil = 32.4" @ 900 Yards)
1000 yards: 4.5 Mil holdover from 800 Yard Turret Setting (162" drop from 800 Yard Setting) 1 Mil = 36" @1000 Yards

So total Mils from 400 yard zero to 1000 Yards was 12 Mils. Weather was cool but humid (~60 degrees, 70% humidity, heavy rain showers and 10-15mph gusty winds from 4 o'clock). Ended up holding 3 mils/9 feet right for wind drift to get on at 900 & 1000...

As far as the 168 grain, I don't know with my rifle. With the winds that day I didn't even try it. Just the 175's. I love the 168's performance out to 600 so far though.

As far as comparison to higher $$ glass, I handed my rifle to a guy with a $900 Vortex Viper PST and he was amazed at the quality. I looked through the Viper and thought the EBR Reticle was top-notch but I honestly couldn't tell much of a difference in clarity of the optic. I can spin the Primary Arms up to max 14x power, adjust parallax and have zero distortion. I will say that the standard mil-dot (4 dots + post in each direction) isn't optimal for 1000 yards if you don't like dialing (which I don't-rather holdover). So I do see upgrading in the future if only for a better Long Distance reticle such as the Horus Tremor, Bushnell G2 DMR or the EBR MRAD from Viper.

 

[Infidel45]

I started from a 400 yard Zero and adjusted (elevation only) with dialing and holdover as follows;

600 Yards: 2.5 Mils Dialed Up/25 clicks (54" Drop from 400yd setting) 1 Mil = 21.6" @ 600 Yards
800 Yards: 3 Mils Dialed Up/30 clicks (86" drop from 600 yard setting) 1 Mil = 28.8" @ 800 Yards
900 Yards: 2 Mil holdover from 800 Yard Turret Setting (65" drop from 800 Yard Setting) 1 Mil = 32.4" @ 900 Yards)
1000 yards: 4.5 Mil holdover from 800 Yard Turret Setting (162" drop from 800 Yard Setting) 1 Mil = 36" @1000 Yards

So total Mils from 400 yard zero to 1000 Yards was 12 Mils. Weather was cool but humid (~60 degrees, 70% humidity, heavy rain showers and 10-15mph gusty winds from 4 o'clock). Ended up holding 3 mils/9 feet right for wind drift to get on at 900 & 1000...

As far as the 168 grain, I don't know with my rifle. With the winds that day I didn't even try it. Just the 175's. I love the 168's performance out to 600 so far though.

As far as comparison to higher $$ glass, I handed my rifle to a guy with a $900 Vortex Viper PST and he was amazed at the quality. I looked through the Viper and thought the EBR Reticle was top-notch but I honestly couldn't tell much of a difference in clarity of the optic. I can spin the Primary Arms up to max 14x power, adjust parallax and have zero distortion. I will say that the standard mil-dot (4 dots + post in each direction) isn't optimal for 1000 yards if you don't like dialing (which I don't-rather holdover). So I do see upgrading in the future if only for a better Long Distance reticle such as the Horus Tremor, Bushnell G2 DMR or the EBR MRAD from Vortex.

 

[Infidel45]

Sounds like a nice economic way to get started. I have a friend that has the Remington ADL Varmint 223 and with some stock inletting and good reloads it will shoot 1/2" 5-shot groups.

Out of curiousity, how large was the steel you were shooting at 1K yards?

It was 4' x 4'. Took me 3 shots to get the wind right and per the spotter and my visual, my next 3 went bottom/center and last round hit right edge of target in the middle (wind laid down as I pulled)

 

[Infidel45]

That's awesome work. At 1k how many mils drop is the 175? Will the 168 get out there? Have you compared the primary arms scope to other high dollar glass at the range what is your opinion? I'm tempted to pick one up.....

I replied with a bunch of detail...said a moderator had to approve before it posted (not sure why or how long that takes). If it doesn't make it up soon, I will try it again. Short version is it took 12 mils of dialing + hold from 400 yards (zero) to 1000 yards.

 

[Mike]

First, let me say congratulations and welcome to your new crack addiction.
Next, let me congratulate you as well for your economic set up that should serve you well.

However, with that being said, you should still recognize the limitations of your rig and as long as you're comfortable with that, or know it's just a matter of time until you upgrade, you'll be GTG.

168gn .308 ammo does very well (some would argue better) than 175gn out to roughly 700 +/- yards. If you want to consistently stretch the 308 out you're going to need the 175s. Remember a good rule of thumb for any caliber is the heavy bullet will do better at distance all other things being equal.

On your glass, I realize you're on a budget but this is going to need upgrading if you plan on shooting where dialing becomes a necessity. I'm not saying you should run out and drop 3K on the top of the line scope, but eventually your cheap scope will shit the bed if you're turning those dials a lot.

Either way, until that point go out and have fun and practice. Learn the wind, and have fun.

 

[Infidel45]

First, let me say congratulations and welcome to your new crack addiction.
Next, let me congratulate you as well for your economic set up that should serve you well.

However, with that being said, you should still recognize the limitations of your rig and as long as you're comfortable with that, or know it's just a matter of time until you upgrade, you'll be GTG.

168gn .308 ammo does very well (some would argue better) than 175gn out to roughly 700 +/- yards. If you want to consistently stretch the 308 out you're going to need the 175s. Remember a good rule of thumb for any caliber is the heavy bullet will do better at distance all other things being equal.

On your glass, I realize you're on a budget but this is going to need upgrading if you plan on shooting where dialing becomes a necessity. I'm not saying you should run out and drop 3K on the top of the line scope, but eventually your cheap scope will shit the bed if you're turning those dials a lot.

Either way, until that point go out and have fun and practice. Learn the wind, and have fun.

Thanks Mike- I agree with you on all counts. My purpose in posting what I did was only to help those that may be in my shoes...wanting to do this but having a limited budget to start with. I already have found the limitations with the scope if only due to the standard mil-dot set-up. I like holding over rather than dialing and there just isn't enough in the mil-dot reticle to allow going from say 600-1000 without cranking that dial a bunch. I will be upgrading to either a Horus, G2 DMR or EBR-MRAD reticled scope in the near future and will put the Prim Arms glass on a hunting rifle...not because its bad quality, but it has it's limitations within my shooting preferences/style/skill-set. If I were to wanting to stay within 600 yards, I am able to get from 100-600 with just holdover from a 100 yard zero with that scope. But 600 just isn't enough fun...

Thanks again for the input..