Suppressors *** NEW *** Otter Creek Labs Hydrogen L & S .30 caliber Suppressors

longshot2000

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    FWIW, I think Otter Creek has done well in under a year of business, give or take. The Hydrogen seems to fair well, but it is a crowded field. Their previous PRS suppressors were tested by Pew Science and did better than average. From what I understand, this is the close to the same model with some changes in exterior aesthetics. I am not sure the heat sink does much. My take is it is more of a design change.

    We just got in the 6.5mm Hydrogen S and will be getting 7.62 in L. The Polonium and OCM5 are pretty much crowd pleasers, but each has its own niche, and OCL is a low volume shop, so hard to tell when things sell out if it is very high demand, given the small production output.
     
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    FuhQ

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    FWIW, I think Otter Creek has done well in under a year of business, give or take. The Hydrogen seems to fair well, but it is a crowded field. Their previous PRS suppressors were tested by Pew Science and did better than average. From what I understand, this is the close to the same model with some changes in exterior aesthetics. I am not sure the heat sink does much. My take is it is more of a design change.

    We just got in the 6.5mm Hydrogen S and will be getting 7.62 in L. The Polonium and OCM5 are pretty much crowd pleasers, but each has its own niche, and OCL is a low volume shop, so hard to tell when things sell out if it is very high demand, given the small production output.
    They're building some really impressive cans. It was cool to be part of their pre-production T&E group. I hope this continues in the future with new cans they might develop. I bought all my cans from them, so I felt I could be as unbiased as possible. I'm always honest about everything I own. I have thought about getting an OCM5 for my LWRC M6A1 (piston) rifle, and keep it on there full-time, but right now things are tight in this economy, so I'll get around to it someday.

    I should be getting my Polonium at the dealer in the next few weeks... I can't wait to try it out. 👍🏼
     
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    tthomp302

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    They're building some really impressive cans. It was cool to be part of their pre-production T&E group. I hope this continues in the future with new cans they might develop. I bought all my cans from them, so I felt I could be as unbiased as possible. I'm always honest about everything I own. I have thought about getting an OCM5 for my LWRC M6A1 (piston) rifle, and keep it on there full-time, but right now things are tight in this economy, so I'll get around to it someday.

    I should be getting my Polonium at the dealer in the next few weeks... I can't wait to try it out. 👍🏼
    My suppressor is being sent to my dealer. I got a very low number production can so I'm super excited to be an early adopter of the Hydrogen L.
     
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    FuhQ

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    Hydrogen L got approved this morning. 72 day wait, I couldn't believe it. Gonna go to the ranch this weekend to shoot some hogs.
    I’m still waiting on my S. It was certified May 17 (were well beyond the 100 day quote now 🙄). I wasn’t able to certify the L until Aug 19. So it will be a while. Maybe they’ll get reviewed by an examiner that will do a batch approval? 🤷🏼
     

    FuhQ

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    Here in a couple months (when they rotate back into production) I will have a Hydrogen-S 6.5mm bore coming in, as well as a Polonium 5.56, and maybe something extra-special (1-off custom), as well. We'll see. 😏
     

    JohnCarter17

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    Charlies Custom Clones is listing some serious reduced prices (blow out??) on the Otter Creek Suppressors.

    Hydrogen for $725, but the others are not in stock (Polonium for $325). Also less for the PR65L (in jail) than I paid a few months ago.

     
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    FuhQ

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    Charlies Custom Clones is listing some serious reduced prices (blow out??) on the Otter Creek Suppressors.

    Hydrogen for $725, but the others are not in stock (Polonium for $325). Also less for the PR65L (in jail) than I paid a few months ago.

    Damn! That's a good deal on the Hydro-L 7.62 for $725! Anyone looking at one, that's almost $400 cheaper than a Nomad-LT, and the Hydro-L produces damn-near identical performance to it.

    If I was needing another L can, i'd be jumping on it. I'm currently waiting on a Hydrogen-S 6.5mm (dedicated for my 5R .260 Rem bolt-action) and a Polonium 5.56 (dedicated for my 14.5" M4 5.56), and a custom 1-off can from them for my 6.5 Grendel DMR. 😉 But it will be a few months before their production rotation rolls back around to them, but he's got them written down on his work order board. 😏
     
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    JohnCarter17

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    Yeah, I was seriously thinking about picking up one. If the Polonium had been is stock at the $325 price I would have pulled the trigger.
     
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    Giraffecaster

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    Yeah, I was seriously thinking about picking up one. If the Polonium had been is stock at the $325 price I would have pulled the trigger.
    They were blowing them out because Otter Creek dropped them as a dealer. They'd sell what they didn't have in inventory and people were complaining to Otter Creek. Whatever was left was their remaining inventory.
     
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    FuhQ

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    They were blowing them out because Otter Creek dropped them as a dealer. They'd sell what they didn't have in inventory and people were complaining to Otter Creek. Whatever was left was their remaining inventory.
    Since I’m not affiliated with either company in a monetary way, it wasn’t my place to explain why the OCL cans were being blown out for those low prices, but this is correct info. It was bad business practices on Charlie’s part. Nothing negative to do with OCL.

    But hell, if you can get a Hydro at those prices, I’d go for it! 👍🏼
     

    Giraffecaster

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    Interesting that Otter Creek says their Hydrogen is better than TBAC Ultra Series. Any thoughts?
    Capture.JPG
     
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    kthomas

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    The question mentioned suppression and the Hydrogen L did score higher in Pew Science ratings.

    View attachment 7962258

    Sound suppression is only one metric.

    I'm not suggesting that one suppressor is better than another. But there's a lot more to suppressors than merely dB ratings.

    We focus way too much on merely dB ratings.
     
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    heavy65

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    Reducing sound is literally the whole entire point of running a can instead of say a 249F.

    We make way too many excuses for companies who don't run their cans through Pew Science in order for us to make more informed decisions about purchases.
     
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    kthomas

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    Reducing sound is literally the whole entire point of running a can instead of say a 249F.

    We make way too many excuses for companies who don't run their cans through Pew Science in order for us to make more informed decisions about purchases.

    If all we cared about was sound reduction, then we would all be running TBAC 338 Ultras on all of our firearms.
     

    heavy65

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    Implied in your statement is that it would be ludicrous to run overly heavy or lengthy cans.

    Ounces and inches which we can not only measure and verify ourselves, but that vendors are by and large transparent and accurate about.

    Now do sound reduction. You sure a TBAC 338 is the quietest thing you can run, on any given firearm? Really?

    How do you know? More importantly: WHY don't you know?
     

    kthomas

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    Implied in your statement is that it would be ludicrous to run overly heavy or lengthy cans.

    Ounces and inches which we can not only measure and verify ourselves, but that vendors are by and large transparent and accurate about.

    Now do sound reduction. You sure a TBAC 338 is the quietest thing you can run, on any given firearm? Really?

    How do you know? More importantly: WHY don't you know?

    If all you care about is dB ratings, then by all means, buy the suppressor with the lowest dB rating.

    OCL seems to make really good suppressors at a very fair price point. I'm not knocking them.

    Personally, I look for a lot of things in a suppressor besides just dB ratings. But that's me. Different strokes for different folks. And "best" is always subjective, and encompasses more than just a mere dB rating.
     

    heavy65

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    Who said that "ALL" I care about is sound? You are strawmanning this. I care about weight and length too, but I can both already objectively and independently quantify those and manufacturers are also already honest and transparent about them.

    But since the whole entire point of a can is for sound reduction, I ALSO care about sound. I want to know how much sound reduction I am getting for a given weight and length penalty. I want to know this information exactly, to close to as much certainty as I can know their weight or length.

    Now I'll pull the same strawman on you, in reverse. You DON'T care about sound? Why are you running a can at all, if sound doesn't matter?
     
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    AirgunnerPCP

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    Sound suppression is only one metric.

    I'm not suggesting that one suppressor is better than another. But there's a lot more to suppressors than merely dB ratings.

    We focus way too much on merely dB ratings.
    I'm just saying that's what the original metric in the screenshot was referring to. Thus answering your "better in what way" question.
     
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    FuhQ

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    Interesting that Otter Creek says their Hydrogen is better than TBAC Ultra Series. Any thoughts?
    View attachment 7962223

    According to Jay at PEW Science, they are... Pretty damn impressive numbers.

    And I can verify from thousands of rounds of personal experience on many different cartridges, platforms, both super and subsonic, and even magnums... Their cans are hanging in there with the big names. Not shilling at all, just telling it like it is. Don't believe me? Go try one! Get your local range to order one of each of the cans in their current lineup, so you can test them on all your rifles against other ones, and you can experience it for yourself. And that won't cost you a dime if the FFL/SOT range buys them for their own demo's to test out.
     
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    kthomas

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    Who said that "ALL" I care about is sound? You are strawmanning this. I care about weight and length too, but I can both already objectively and independently quantify those and manufacturers are also already honest and transparent about them.

    But since the whole entire point of a can is for sound reduction, I ALSO care about sound. I want to know how much sound reduction I am getting for a given weight and length penalty. I want to know this information exactly, to close to as much certainty as I can know their weight or length.

    Now I'll pull the same strawman on you, in reverse. You DON'T care about sound? Why are you running a can at all, if sound doesn't matter?

    I personally don't think dB reduction is the be-all end-all with suppressors. We tend to focus way too much on dB ratings and too little on the other factors. Even @lowlight has made this point, numerous times.

    I have to wear hearing protection anyways when I shoot a suppressed center-fire cartridge, so whether it's 135 dB or 141 dB is of relatively little concern to me.

    I personally wouldn't pick one can over the other just because it's a few dB quieter.
     

    kthomas

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    I'm just saying that's what the original metric in the screenshot was referring to. Thus answering your "better in what way" question.

    My point is that that's only one metric, and that metric alone does not make any suppressor better over another necessarily.

    Really depends on your use and objectives. I've made my point, so no need for me to belabor it further.

    The OCL cans obviously suppress very well. For some people, they very well may be the "best" suppressor for their specific use and needs. I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting an OCL, they are obviously decent cans.
     
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    FuhQ

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    I personally don't think dB reduction is the be-all end-all with suppressors. We tend to focus way too much on dB ratings and too little on the other factors. Even @lowlight has made this point, numerous times.

    I have to wear hearing protection anyways when I shoot a suppressed center-fire cartridge, so whether it's 135 dB or 141 dB is of relatively little concern to me.

    I personally wouldn't pick one can over the other just because it's a few dB quieter.
    I will agree that sound quality of the can is important as well. And I see what @heavy65 is saying, that we already KNOW the length and weight of a can, so that's a distinguished deciding predetermined factor we already know. So if you're looking for a 7" can, you're not going to be looking for a Hydrogen-L...You'd be looking at the Hydrogen-S lineup. You know what I mean? I think he's saying that because we know those static factors, comparing them to other cans with those same exact factors, a true honest comparison is the DB numbers at that point. Because all else being equal, the DB numbers don't lie, and also shows you how much engineering and design goes into something, to do what it's supposed to do.

    For example, TBAC Ultra was the standard for years. Then the Nomad-L (and LT) came along and blew everything out of the water in DB ratings. Then the Hydrogen-L came along, and is directly behind the Nomad-L/LT. And now the TBAC Magnus has come along, and is the quietest .30 cal can on the market. So, in a way, yes, DB ratings are kind of important, once you have established the other parameters of a suppressor you desire for your specific need. And it also shows who's actually innovating, and who's just sitting on their thumbs and coasting on a legacy because the company already gets big fat .gov and fedboi contracts so they ain't worried about civilians sales and engineering new cans as their main priority. They're worried about pumping out volume of current models because the .gov has already sanctioned and approved it.
     
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    kthomas

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    There's lots of factors to a suppressor:

    - sound suppression
    - flash suppression
    - recoil characteristics
    - back pressure characteristics
    - length
    - weight
    - price
    - QA/QC
    - customer service
    - mounting options
    - etc, etc, etc

    For example, on my PRS rifle, I would much rather have a suppressor that's 140 dB but has very desirable recoil characteristics over a suppressor that is 135 dB with a long heavy "push" for recoil.

    That 5 dB penalty is absolutely worth it for that, especially considering I still have to wear hearing pro. dB's are far from everything.
     

    FuhQ

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    My point is that that's only one metric, and that metric alone does not make any suppressor better over another necessarily.

    Really depends on your use and objectives. I've made my point, so no need for me to belabor it further.

    The OCL cans obviously suppress very well. For some people, they very well may be the "best" suppressor for their specific use and needs. I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting an OCL, they are obviously decent cans.
    I'm not going to say their the best thing ever made, because I'm not a shill for anyone. But I will certainly say, that I have been beyond impressed with mine. And I plan to buy more in the future. For the money, they are excellent. Espeically when you find them on sale, because it ends up being way cheaper than it's extremely similar counterparts from other brands. Facts are facts.

    I love Dead Air, and I will absolutely buy more Dead Air cans in the future (probably going to pickup a 2nd Mask HD soon), because they build amazing suppressors. But honestly, after all my first-hand experiences with both brands... If I can get a Hydrogen-S or a Hydrogen-L on sale, plus the stamp, and the trust, for the same price as buying JUST the Nomad-Ti or Nomad-LT by itself... And the PEW science ratings are so damn close it's scary... Which one you think I'm picking in this economy? 👍🏼
     
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    kthomas

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    I'm not going to say their the best thing ever made, because I'm not a shill for anyone. But I will certainly say, that I have been beyond impressed with mine. And I plan to buy more in the future. For the money, they are excellent. Espeically when you find them on sale, because it ends up being way cheaper than it's extremely similar counterparts from other brands. Facts are facts.

    I love Dead Air, and I will absolutely buy more Dead Air cans in the future (probably going to pickup a 2nd Mask HD soon), because they build amazing suppressors. But honestly, after all my first-hand experiences with both brands... If I can get a Hydrogen-S or a Hydrogen-L on sale, plus the stamp, and the trust, for the same price as buying JUST the Nomad-Ti or Nomad-LT by itself... And the PEW science ratings are so damn close it's scary... Which one you think I'm picking in this economy? 👍🏼

    I don't think there's anything wrong with those suppressors. They are obviously great suppressors.

    My point is that "the best" is subjective and mission dependent, and dB's are far from the only consideration.
     
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    heavy65

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    I personally don't think dB reduction is the be-all end-all with suppressors. We tend to focus way too much on dB ratings and too little on the other factors. Even @lowlight has made this point, numerous times.

    I have to wear hearing protection anyways when I shoot a suppressed center-fire cartridge, so whether it's 135 dB or 141 dB is of relatively little concern to me.

    I personally wouldn't pick one can over the other just because it's a few dB quieter.
    Understood, if you never shoot without earpro on you and the folks around you, then sound performance isn't an important criteria. It's even less important whenever the data isn't available for it. For hunting it matters to me. Do you prefer K cans?
     

    kthomas

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    Understood, if you never shoot without earpro on you and the folks around you, then sound performance isn't an important criteria. It's even less important whenever the data isn't available for it. For hunting it matters to me. Do you prefer K cans?

    I have a few different kind of suppressors. They all serve different purposes. None of them are "the best" at every scenario or mission.

    And I would never recommend anyone shoot any supersonic cartridge without ear pro, suppressed or not. None are hearing safe.
     
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    heavy65

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    For example, on my PRS rifle, I would much rather have a suppressor that's 140 dB but has very desirable recoil characteristics over a suppressor that is 135 dB with a long heavy "push" for recoil.

    That 5 dB penalty is absolutely worth it for that, especially considering I still have to wear hearing pro. dB's are far from everything.
    Think we were talking past each other to some extent. I agree that all those other factors are valid to prioritize, even if some aren't quantifiable. My point was that you needed to be able to know the sound performance in the first place to balance it with your other, higher priorities. All those other factors are worth ~5db to you (to me, too). But to say this you had to know going in what the sound performance gap was.

    Companies like Otter Creek (also the Diligent Defence Enticer-L) are beating the Ultra 9 in sound while matching or exceeding the size and weight specs. That's a good starting point to begin evaluating all of the other criteria you mentioned while rightly ignoring a host of other can options.

    These companies are being transparent about their sound performance by presenting the data that lets you draw the comparison. That transparency is very high on my list of criteria.
     
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    FuhQ

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    I don't think there's anything wrong with those suppressors. They are obviously great suppressors.

    My point is that "the best" is subjective and mission dependent, and dB's are far from the only consideration.
    I'll agree with that. Best is what is best suited for your needs. And there's a lot of truth in that.

    For me, I want maximum sound suppression, because I hate wearing ear pro. LOL I also want to be able to see just how quiet things can get on a given cartridge and platform. Plus, I mainly prefer to shoot my bolt-actions and long range and precision, so I'm not really worried about short and lightweight.

    Lightweight is still nice, because it means less barrel harmonics to affect your POI and groups. And I'm here to tell you right now, those Hydrogen series cans ARE 100% precision rifle cans. Every gun I shoot them on, my groups are better than when I pull them off and use any other can I own. And that's not talking bad about any can, or hyping up any can...Because we're only talking 0.1xx to 0.2xx inches. So, not exactly HUGE amounts of difference, but I have noticed slightly tighter and more consistent groups with them compared to my other cans. I don't have an explanation, and I'm not shilling, it really just is what it is. 🤷🏼 I honestly believe it's the fact OCL is still a very small company, and they're still making small-batch suppressors by hand, and still have ultra-tight QA/QC tolerances for each suppressor they make, compared to big manufacturing companies, that are pumping out as many as possible. I really think that's the difference...Just slightly tighter tolerances, creating a slighter higher performing suppressor. Think about like good small-batch whiskey and fine cuban cigars... Kind of the same scenario. Smaller batch, means better attention to details.
     
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    heavy65

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    I have a few different kind of suppressors. They all serve different purposes. None of them are "the best" at every scenario or mission.

    And I would never recommend anyone shoot any supersonic cartridge without ear pro, suppressed or not. None are hearing safe.
    You'd have to define "hearing safe."

    Another way to say it is that every cartridge you shoot out of a gun, regardless of what's hanging off the muzzle, represents some level of risk to your hearing. You can make that risk very low: 22 subsonic suppressed, hollywood quiet. You can make it slightly higher - 22 supersonic suppressed. The sonic boom shockwave is propagating away from you and isn't inducing a big impulse to your ear. A .177 springer pellet gun can go supersonic yet remain very comfortable. Certainly for a single shot a day, for example - if you've shot one you know what I mean.

    Pew Science is a dosimeter that helps to determine that level of risk. A shot or two on a hunt through a 22" Creedmoor with a Hyperion, is lower risk to the shooter placed back behind the rifle than a shot or two through a full sized Rugged Oculus 22lr can on a Beretta Bobcat, with its semi-auto action and that close to the shooter. I would call those Creedmoor shots hearing safe.
     

    AMGtuned

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    PEW Science is awesome; Jay's work is paramount to the community.

    All suppressors are pretty much awesome. Simply because they are. (No, I'm not that simple, I know some ARE better than others.) But it's great to see that market expanding, with new irons in the fire almost daily.

    I will add this, for what it's worth: If @AndrewKing is using FLO 1.0 type guts in anything, well, good luck to those that are already behind. That was a good system, and he was smart to put it to testing the way he did.
     
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    BuildingConceptsllc

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    Bring it down, and we’ll swap for a few rounds. I’m interested to see how the regular Nomad-Ti stacks up against the Hydrogen-S. Length & weight they’re almost identical. I think the baffle count is close, too.

    As far as want…Why not get both? They both serve a role. The Nomad-LT will be a beast of a hunting can with max suppression.

    And then get you a couple of the OCL cans… I’m telling you straight-up, they’re nothing to sneeze at. They’re holding their own with the big boys. I’ve been highly impressed. And I bought all of my cans, so there’s no bias going on. 👍🏼
    You know I got the Ti. I haven't shot it yet. I got the oculus too so you could test it against your mask for 22lr too
     
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    FuhQ

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    You know I got the Ti. I haven't shot it yet. I got the oculus too so you could test it against your mask for 22lr too
    I haven’t been to the range in months. I had covid about 3 months ago, then about 2 months ago I was dealing with work shit, and a little over a month ago my dad died, so I’ve been dealing with all his estate shit, and shitty/petty trash family members trying to rob him blind after he died. It’s been a real mess. And all the while in between all of it, I was working on a job offer to switch jobs, and now I’m starting that on the 30th. So, it’s been a crazy 3 months. It’s football Saturday today, but I might go tomorrow. I need to get in a little “group therapy”. 👍🏼
     

    Cascade Hemi

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    Tests have proven othersise, when shooter's ear numbers are in the 120's, that's pretty damn hearing safe. OSHA states 140 DB is where permanent damage occurs. Granted, lower decibels for extended periods can cause the same issues (like working in a factory full of equipment all running at the same time all day long), but those are also for extended periods of time, and gunshots literally last milliseconds.

    Well anonymous internet person, we can take your post at face value and suffer hearing damage or we can still wear hearing protection because those loud noises hurt. I know, tough call.
     

    FuhQ

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    Well anonymous internet person, we can take your post at face value and suffer hearing damage or we can still wear hearing protection because those loud noises hurt. I know, tough call.
    Well, other anonymous internet person, I honestly don’t give a fuck. Do whatever you want to do, I literally couldn’t care less. 👍🏼
     
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    kthomas

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    Hopefully no one here actually thinks that suppressed centerfire cartridges that are traveling supersonic velocities are hearing safe. Good recipe for hearing damage.
     

    heavy65

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    Hopefully no one here actually thinks that suppressed centerfire cartridges that are traveling supersonic velocities are hearing safe. Good recipe for hearing damage.
    Still waiting on your definition of "hearing safe" that would make this warning meaningful.
     

    kthomas

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    Still waiting on your definition of "hearing safe" that would make this warning meaningful.

    It's been covered ad nauseum in other threads, by people who can write it up better than I.

    @E. Bryant in particular has covered this specific topic well in other threads.
     

    FuhQ

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    Ok... We're not gonna fuck this damn thread up, too. Move the hearing safe argument to DM's.

    This thread has to do with suppressors, how they sound, how quiet they are, how well they work... Not what all entails hearing safe and what isn't. Like @kthomas said already, it's been covered ad nauseam in SOOOOOO MANY OTHER THREADS. Let's not derail this one, too.
     
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    heavy65

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    I'm not familiar with all that, but I have seen Bryant deferring to Jay on this stuff and Jay says a 22" 6.5CM Hyperion is quieter to the shooter than an 8" 300BLK subsonic with a Q Trash Panda.

    Blanket statements that all centerfire supersonic cartridges aren't hearing safe is belied by data like this and Pew Science exists to demystify it.

    Edit: all good, that's my last on it.
     

    FuhQ

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    I'm not familiar with all that, but I have seen Bryant deferring to Jay on this stuff and Jay says a 22" 6.5CM Hyperion is quieter to the shooter than an 8" 300BLK subsonic with a Q Trash Panda.

    Blanket statements that all centerfire supersonic cartridges aren't hearing safe is belied by data like this and Pew Science exists to demystify it.

    Edit: all good, that's my last on it.
    I agree with what you said. I don't subscribe to the all centerfire is unsafe BS. But that's the last I'll say on it.

    Yall are more than welcome to discuss suppressors and other suppressors and how they compare to the OCL cans. But please, let's not derail this thread, too. I know full-well that it's The Hide, and it happens in just about every thread, but I want to try to keep this thread semi-on-topic.
     

    FuhQ

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    Now, let's continue the OCL Hydrogen discussion... A buddy of mine bought a new Christensen Arms Ridgeline 24" barrel in 7mm-08 Rem (1:9 twist) yesterday, and had me mount his new Zeiss scope on it, and help him get it sighted in today. Out of curiosity, I put my Hydrogen S and L on it for a couple shots each... WOW! Lightweight, good balance, and sounded amazing! The Hydrogen-S is absolutely perfect for it.

    I'm just glad I got to test another new cartridge with them. Unfortunately, the range was PACKED today, so I wasn't able to video, but maybe next couple weeks I can get some video of his rifle with my cans on it, or if I end up buying one too, just to add to the collection of rifles and cartridges and information to the list. 👍🏼

    Also, I have to say, I love my CA Ranger 22 rifle, and everyone talks crap about CA having bad barrels and stuff, but his rife with factory Hornady 150 ELD-X ammo was putting 3 shots in the same hole at 50 yards (preliminary sight-in, since the LR was full at the time). Then we moved it over to the 100 yard and 200 yard ranges to final zero once folks cleared out. At 100, it was stacking 3 shots inside of 1/2" with factory ammo. I was pretty damn impressed. That means when I work up a handload for his rifle, it shouldn't be too picky. I might have to pick one up while they have a $350 rebate going on. He said they had some 20" 7mm-08's up there, and that is right up my wheelhouse for a new compact deer rifle. 👍🏼
     
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    Cascade Hemi

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    It's been covered ad nauseum in other threads, by people who can write it up better than I.

    @E. Bryant in particular has covered this specific topic well in other threads.

    The OSHA 140db threshold that gets brought up all the time is a single exposure in 24 hours. Even 120 db can damage your hearing. Further, none of these numbers are absolute and your hearing can be damaged with lower DB sound pressures. As you said, suppressed super sonic center fire rifles are not hearing safe.
     
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