New Winchester Staball 6.5 ball powder

ddavis

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ARC Arc., Criterion 6.5 Creedmoor 22".

Initial rounds loaded to see where I hit pressure. No hard bolt lift, but I have a feeling something right around 46 grains is going to be good with these 130 Hornady's. There are 18 shots on this paper so the barrel has... About 23 rounds through it so far, lol. Velocity figures are going to be pretty low until it's broken in but I should be able to check velocity tomorrow anyways to get an idea. 4 of the groups are 1.3" and the other 2 are a little bigger. 200 yards.
 

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reubenski

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If you don't mind the temp sensitivity, I think StaBall may end up being one of the most versatile powders out there. It is a slower burn rate but it's silky, ball form will allow you to fit a lot in a case. That's what makes it so versatile. I don't think you can compare burn rates with stick powders in an "all things being equal" kinda way. Because it's ability to pack in 20% more isn't equal. I'm going to call it now, StaBall will be good for 308, especially lighter bullets. I have a 29" 1:13" zero freebore 308 barrel. Designed exclusively for 155gr bullets at 2900+. I'll play around with some StaBall loads and let you all know.

Meanwhile, consider this:

223 Wylde - 26" 1:7.5" 75gr ELDMs at 2.470" COAL, LC brass; 27.5gr 2820fps; 27.74gr 2856fps; 28gr 2957fps (dangerous!). All loads compressed. 27.5 is realistic max.

22BR - 20" 1:7.7" 88ELDMs 34.8gr 2980fps

6BR - 28" 1.75" 107 SMK 35gr 2930fps

6GT - 24" 1.7" 105 HYB 39gr 2970fps

6.5CM - Tikka 24" factory barrel 140ELDM 44.5gr 2800fps

And then you have that gigantic 308 case to fill up. 155's leave all the case capacity for use.
@ddavis I have to eat my words. I would also classify StaBall as too slow for 308. Best I could get was just over 2900. But that isn't great for a 29" barrel shooting 155 Palma MKs. I was doing 3050 with Varget. The ES was all over the place at 50grs because it was compressed. I would say 49grs is a more realistic top end at just a light compression. That was doing 2830. So about 200fps too slow.

Edit: this is with a 29", 1:13" 308 using Lapua LRP, 155SMK Palma at 2.810" COAL.
 
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ddavis

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@ddavis I have to eat my words. I would also classify StaBall as too slow for 308. Best I could get was just over 2900. But that isn't great for a 29" barrel shooting 155 Palma MKs. I was doing 3050 with Varget. The ES was all over the place at 50grs because it was compressed. I would say 49grs is a more realistic top end at just a light compression. That was doing 2830. So about 200fps too slow.

Edit: this is with a 29", 1:13" 308 using Lapua LRP, 155SMK Palma at 2.810" COAL.

It may still have some value for someone wanting to shoot something odd like 208s, but yeah that's not great for a Palma set up where you really want every advantage you can get. Cool to see another data point though.

-Dan
 

ddavis

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Today's outing. 200 yards with 142 Sierra's. Much more promising than the 130 Hornady's. Very good velocity from this powder from a 22" barrel. Velocities on MS readout are only 1 round from each charge weight but give an idea of speed

2- 43.8 ~2720
3- 44.2 ~2770
4- 44.6 ~2790
5- 45.0 ~2830

-Dan
 

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Caveman260

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On topic. Don't care about chronograph numbers or powders anyone uses not asked about. I loaded 20 rounds for my 260 rem, savage 116. 37, 38, 39 40 grains. 140 gr Berger's. Shot them all in order without cooling barrel. Ended up with a group under one inch. The barrel temp didn't change POI. Stabill 6.5 seems to be just what I need for hunting, forgiving and simple.
 

chevy_man

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I ran a quick ladder from 41.8-43.7 behind a 147 ELD-M. Fed 210.
I could see a scatter, node, node, scatter as I worked up. 43.3 is max on hodgdon data, so I'm leaving it under 43 for brass life if the Chrono puts me around 2700 and has decent es.

5 is 42.7, 6 is 43. Next weekend if I can find the time I'll run a quick seating check at 42.8 and call it a day.

IMG_20200308_211230412.jpg
 

mark5pt56

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Anyone have a good starting point for the Staball and 140 SMK? Have Hornady brass and 210M. Hodgdon list 40.5-44.4 for a 142.

Think I might go in .2 increments for a ladder at 300. Or should I initially start out with a larger increment?

Mark
 

plinkin

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Anyone run any in a 6.5x47 yet? I've got a pound of it, curious what a good starting point would be. I think Winchester listed 35 grains for max with a 140 hybrid.
 

Stavey

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44.5g under a 140 eld shoots bug holes in my Bart or my Brux 6.5 creedmoor 20” gassers.
 

mark5pt56

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That 44.2/4/6 also look good? Primers all look ok. The last ones, slight difference. How did the target look?
 

Jmccracken1214

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That 44.2/4/6 also look good? Primers all look ok. The last ones, slight difference. How did the target look?
Yes, that’s a possible node too, but only 30fps faster than I’m pushing my berger 140s. So I didn’t want to really mess with it. Wanting to get more speed with the 130’s.

My dumbass was shooting at 300 to foul the barrel and forgot to adjust my turret and left it at 1mil, when shooting at the top left corner of the paper at 100, and when I realized it, I had already shot half of them, couldn’t see the holes, or lack there of due to the sun. Then just shot the rest at 300 on steel
 

mark5pt56

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Okie, cool. I plan to go next week and test mine, 140 smk. did 42.3-44.4 in .3 increments.
 

jpndave

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Jmccracken1214, thanks for posting that up. Nice data and documentaion. What rifle and barrel (length?) are you shooting? Primers on those loads? How is the firing pin/hole clearance?

Again, thanks for posting up and looking forward to seeing the results.

Dave
 
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Jmccracken1214

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What barrel length do you have?
Jmccracken1214, thanks for posting that up. Nice data and documentaion. What rifle and barrel (length?) are you shooting? Primers on those loads? How is the firing pin/hole clearance?

Again, thanks for posting up and looking forward to seeing the results.

Dave
Ruger Hawkeye longrange. 26” barrel. Cci450 primers
 

ThreeBravo

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I ran a quick ladder from 41.8-43.7 behind a 147 ELD-M. Fed 210.
I could see a scatter, node, node, scatter as I worked up. 43.3 is max on hodgdon data, so I'm leaving it under 43 for brass life if the Chrono puts me around 2700 and has decent es.

5 is 42.7, 6 is 43. Next weekend if I can find the time I'll run a quick seating check at 42.8 and call it a day.

View attachment 7279594
Do you have any velocities from your load test? I am working up a load for the 147s and was hoping to have something to compare to.
 

rangerlong

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Do you have any velocities from your load test? I am working up a load for the 147s and was hoping to have something to compare to.
I shot 43.3gr of staball 6.5 with the 147gr on Friday.
65*F.
I got ~2650fps in both Hornady brass and Lapua srp brass.
Fairly disappointing compared to the Hodgdon data.
 

plinkin

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Different cartridge, but I tried the staball in a 6.5x47 with a 140 hybrid, 39.5 was getting me 2650 out of a 24 in, same configuration with 37.2 of varget gets me 2760.
 

chevy_man

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Do you have any velocities from your load test? I am working up a load for the 147s and was hoping to have something to compare to.
43grns in prime brass, fed 210's, seated at mag length and nowhere close to the lands got me 2680-2690 in a 24" Bergara with a suppressor. 45*f outside.

I pushed it to 43.7 and the velocity came up but the accuracy wasn't there. I may push it up to 44 and hit the next node, but I need summer to heat test.
 
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ThreeBravo

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43grns in prime brass, fed 210's, seated at mag length and nowhere close to the lands got me 2680-2690 in a 24" Bergara with a suppressor. 45*f outside.

I pushed it to 43.7 and the velocity came up but the accuracy wasn't there. I may push it up to 44 and hit the next node, but I need summer to heat test.
Thanks for the info, can't wait for my powder to get here so I can start working loads up!
 

towerofpower93

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Tagging back in since I'm building a 22" 6.5C AR10 upper and damned if I'll be loading on a single stage for this.

Hoping this powder will let me load ~800yd ammo on my Dillon 650 XL with case feeder and powder measure.

ETA: planing to run the 123gr ELD-M or 130gr AR Hybrid as I stack both deep for my 6.5G AR and 6.5x47L bolt gun, respectively.
 

fxdrider

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Palmetto State PA-10, 6.5 Creedmoor, 20" barrel. 43.9 grains of StaBALL 65 under 147 gr. ELD-M in Hornady once-fired brass produced 2667 f.p.s. average (3 rounds) 12 fps extreme spread. .661 MOA group.
It was part of a mini-OCW test (6 loads instead of 10), and normally I would pass a good 3-shot group as pretty meaningless, but 5 of the six loads produced very consistent data and 4 produced decent groups (sub-moa) as well. So I'm going to load up 20 of either the 43.9 load or the 43.6 load and see how it groups.
 

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mb571

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Hi Folks. I have been shooting a Bergara B14 HMR (22" barrel) in 6.5 for a couple months now. Have found some good H4350 loads. But now there seems to be a Varget and H4350 shortage going on up here just North of you. I have some 6.5 Staball coming in the mail in a couple days. I've read most of the last 10 pages of this thread. But still don't mind if someone steers me before the next reload session. On the bench I have some 140gr ELDM's, some 130gr Sierra Game Changers, and some 150 gr SMK's. I bought the 150's at a Cabela's sale but don't know if I'll get anywhere with them in my 1 in 8" twist barrel. My couple pet loads so far are:
140 gr ELDM 41.4 grains of H4350 2632 fps SD: 4.51
130 gr Sierra Game Changer 37.6 grains of Varget 2675fps SD: 7.06
I may be compromising a bit loading to magazine length. It will fit COL of 2.850". It could fit a bit longer but I've read you have to file a bit of a vee in the bottom of the floor plate where the bullet tip hits.
From reading the last 10 pages, I was thinking about running a ladder test of .2 increments between 44 ish and 46.6 grains of 6.5 Staball. Any pointers would be appreciated.
 

CMP70306

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So I figured I would update here for those using the 6.5 PRC as I am currently using this cartridge in a hunting rifle with a 24” proof prefit. Due to the high velocity and possibility of close shots I am using mono’s to prevent bullet blow ups but my 7.5 twist proof limits me to the lighter monos. Since the Hodgdon data for lighter bullets only uses the same slow powders as the 156’s I have been doing testing to determine what the upper limit would be with a faster powder and so far StaBall 6.5 has produced significantly faster velocities though I have only done limited testing.

Currently I am using the 122gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos bullets with good success and started with the 122gr PVA Cayuga bullets to see how they performed since I was out of Lehighs.

981807F5-7905-40EE-A063-4671F647D03B.jpeg

So far I have run from 50gr all the way up to 58.9, primers are slightly flat at the top end but there are no extractor marks on the case head and bolt lift is normal.

Does anyone know if the newQuickLoad update has StaBall 6.5 as I would like to tweak that to see what kind of pressure I’m at.
 
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jpndave

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So I figured I would update here for those using the 6.5 PRC as I am currently using this cartridge in a hunting rifle with a 24” proof prefit. Due to the high velocity and possibility of close shots I am using mono’s to prevent bullet blow ups but my 7.5 twist proof limits me to the lighter monos. Since the Hodgdon data for lighter bullets only uses the same slow powders as the 156’s I have been doing testing to determine what the upper limit would be with a faster powder and so far StaBall 6.5 has produced significantly faster velocities though I have only done limited testing.

Currently I am using the 122gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos bullets with good success and started with the 122gr PVA Cayuga bullets to see how they performed since I was out of Lehighs.

View attachment 7332913

So far I have run from 50gr all the way up to 58.9, primers are slightly flat at the top end but there are no extractor marks on the case head and bolt lift is normal.

Does anyone know if the newQuickLoad update has StaBall 6.5 as I would like to tweak that to see what kind of pressure I’m at.
My Quickload does not have StaBALL wish it did. Pretty sure it is the current version.
 

CMP70306

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My Quickload does not have StaBALL wish it did. Pretty sure it is the current version.
Mine is v3.9 from a couple years ago (2018 I think) but they show an Update from May 2020


Edit: Just did some more digging, looks the the new update has both StaBall 6.5 and the 6.5 PRC added so looks like the $16 update would be worth it.
 
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BBVDD

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I took mine out last weekend to play around. Haven't shot it in a while and not hardly any with the Staball.
Using Origin action, 26" Criterion prefit barrel.
Lapua brass SRP
Ran a ladder test with with CCI magnum primers that I apparently didn't seat correctly and had 3 failures. So, need to run that one again.
143 eld-x
42.2 2744
42.4 2738
42.6 2737
42.8 2738
This was my node
I ran it up to 43.4 which was around

also ran some other test with regular 400 primers:
same bullets
10 shots each group

42 2694 avg
42.5 2709 avg
43 2747 avg
43.5 2793 avg had the best ES
44 2825 avg

I'll run ladder test with the CCI 450 and see how it does.

Overall though, the speed are pretty decent.
 

jpndave

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Mine is v3.9 from a couple years ago (2018 I think) but they show an Update from May 2020


Edit: Just did some more digging, looks the the new update has both StaBall 6.5 and the 6.5 PRC added so looks like the $16 update would be worth it.
I have v.3.9.0.15. No StaBall 6.5 but both PRC rounds as well as A-Tips are there. Where are you seeing the powder list?
 

Mopar man

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38.5 grains of stabal in my 6gt to get the same speed as 33.2 grains of varget sd is about the same
 

Tsiegwart

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Using a pretty mild load with 123 SMK.

The old RCBS electronic meter really likes it. Out of 50 loads, one was over by .1 gr and one was over by .2 gr (which I dumped and reran) the rest metered out exactly to 43.5. I love Varget, but the meter dispenses over the programmed amount about 15% of the time which is super annoying.

200 yd is sub MOA. 26inch barrel. 75F was the temp.20200605_134208.jpg20200605_134323.jpg
 

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918v

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I did a little temperature stability test this morning with Staball and 140 Hybrids in my 24” 6.5CM.

I have been working up a loads with this powder and, like this thread suggests, it likes to be in the 44.5gr range with 140’s at about 2820 FPS. I tested three different lots and they’re pretty close to one another, plus minus 10 FPS. Incidentally, CCI BR2 is 40 FPS slower than FC210M.

I loaded up 18 rounds with charges thrown from a BR-30. I froze 6, boiled 6, and left the remainder ambient. By the time I shot them the cold ones were about 90 deg colder from the hot ones. It was 64 outside.

I fired through a dirty barrel and waited 3 min between shots and had a shop fan blowing over the barrel. The barrel was cold for every cold and ambient shot. It was warm for the warm shots.

I shot 3 for velocity over a magnetospeed and then three for accuracy with the chrony removed. The ES for all of them was 47 (2802 for the slowest cold shot and 2849 for he fastest warm shot) if you average it out the velocity increased .3-.4 FPS per degree in a linear fashion. The POI shifted 3/8” to the tight, cold vs hot. Accuracy held at 3/8” ctc, so did the ES, about 15. I wrote it all down but can’t find it.

Anyway, for a ball powder it ain’t bad. And it’s twice as good as 2000MR was in my 308 the last time I did this.

140 Hybrid, 44.5grs Staball, 210M, Norma brass, 2.810” COAL (.140” off the lands)
 

918v

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Oh btw, bolt lift was hard with the cold rounds and very easy with the hot ones, weird.
 

Uspsa2011

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Doesn’t happen with my 308
Your 308 is a completely different variable set. Condensation on a cartridge case can cause a sticky bolt lift. You cannot compress a liquid. If your chamber is tighter than your 308, and or your loads are flirting with the hotter side then its a possible data point to look at. And its quite easy to verify.
 

918v

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I wiped off the condensation before chambering. I fired within 10-15 seconds. It has a looser chamber than my 308. It lets cases expand to .475”. I hate it.
 

Uspsa2011

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I wiped off the condensation before chambering. I fired within 10-15 seconds. It has a looser chamber than my 308. It lets cases expand to .475”. I hate it.
Well that makes it more interesting then for sure. Thats the only decent guess i had.