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Rifle Scopes Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

TwoGun

TwoGun

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 26, 2006
38
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59
Gilbert, AZ
Ya know, I'm getting pretty disgruntled at Nightforce and their price fixing (which is perfectly legal). Everytime I get a coupon from Midway or Optics Planet, these cock blockers are ruining my parade. Why can I get 5% off Schmidt Bender but these fuckers won't let sellers compete. I've about had it. Am I out of line? I'm thinking of just getting a USO or S&B. Rant off.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Huh? Just about all the scope companies have MAP in effect.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

I have a 5% code for Optics Planet and it works on every single scope except Nightforce. That includes USO, S&B, Zeiss and Swarovski.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Forget them and call/pm some of the vendors on the hide, you might be suprised
wink.gif
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Yes I agree its bullshit but they do have a great product. Give the boys at Euro Optic a Call!!

T.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

the map policy is a good thing, it keeps the value of the scopes up. call around, you might be surprised at some of the deals you can find.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

MAP might be good for the scope companies but frankly it turns shopping for a scope into shopping for a used car. Now instead of finding a good deal and having some pricing competition out there you have to call a bunch of dealers and haggle prices to see what they are really willing to sell them for, or what "freebies" they are willing to throw in. It just wastes the dealers time and the customers.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the map policy is a good thing, it keeps the value of the scopes up. call around, you might be surprised at some of the deals you can find. </div></div>Exactly: One can get a NF for 95% of MAP on any day of the week.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

I know it can tough as a consumer at times. We sell a lot of different scopes including NF scopes. We will meet or beat anyone’s price on NF scopes.

Mike @ CST
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

I hear NF has recently "turned loose" some dealers on old stock stuff. But nothing on the new HS stuff. Their MAP is 5% off MSRP and that is what all dealers advertise. Of course, it doesn't necessarily mean they sell them all at MAP, just advertise.
I have nine NF scopes at the moment and don't regret a single one of them. I wish I had done a better job in the past matching knobs to reticles but that is all on my dumb ass. Live and learn!
I have sent several back for upgrades. They do a great job there too.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robot Doc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call Chris or Brady at SWFA. See what they can do for you. </div></div>

Not much if the guy really wants a Nightforce. SWFA does not currently carry that brand......
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the map policy is a good thing, it keeps the value of the scopes up. call around, you might be surprised at some of the deals you can find.</div></div>

I couldnt have been happier with the treatment I received from Jay and his company...
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

TwoGun you LE/Mil?
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Advertise for bids that's a great idea!

I wonder how much time and effort is wasted on both the customers and the dealers end by trying to email/call dealers and dealers fielding constant inquiries to see what the "real" prices are for NF/USO/SB/PH/etc.

I guess on one hand it keeps the used prices up, since it seems most guys can sell the scopes used for just a couple hundred dollars under the fixed advertised pricing, which is probably still more than some dealers will sell them new for.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TwoGun you LE/Mil? </div></div>

No, I know a few LEOs but not the guys that would use this equipment. I think I'll give them a call, though, now that you mention it. Thanks.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TwoGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya know, I'm getting pretty disgruntled at Nightforce and their price fixing (which is perfectly legal). Everytime I get a coupon from Midway or Optics Planet, these cock blockers are ruining my parade. Why can I get 5% off Schmidt Bender but these fuckers won't let sellers compete. I've about had it. Am I out of line? I'm thinking of just getting a USO or S&B. Rant off. </div></div>

I got free shipping and no tax on my 5.5X22-50. About as good as anyone can get I think.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

I agree great vendors on here. +1 on giving Euro Optics a call.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know it can tough as a consumer at times. We sell a lot of different scopes including NF scopes. We will meet or beat anyone’s price on NF scopes.

Mike @ CST </div></div>

Now you tell me...just got in the NXS 5.5x22x56 without zerostop for $1632. How much lower are you guys going in price then that?
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

MAP = Minimim <span style="text-decoration: underline">Advertised</span> Price.

MAP policies do not mean that retailers are prevented from doing deals face-to-face with customers - it just prevents open and excessive discounted selling on the Web or in the press, prevents undermining the value of the brand, protecets the retailers investment in the product/brand and customer confidence.

Shop around and you'll find deals to be done.

A BIG +1 on Alex at Euro Optics
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattsnuked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget them and call/pm some of the vendors on the hide, you might be suprised
wink.gif
</div></div>
+1 on that suggestion.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Just ordered a NEW 5.5x22x50 with ZS/HS turrets.. Saved about $200.. Call the retailers, they will work with you..... Atleast some will
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TwoGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TwoGun you LE/Mil? </div></div>

No, I know a few LEOs but not the guys that would use this equipment. I think I'll give them a call, though, now that you mention it. Thanks. </div></div>

Too bad. I could have gotten you info for a good savings for LE/Mil on S&B scopes. Well over 5%.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. This is a good thread and I've learned a bit. I have two Nightforce NXS scopes and like them both. Just thought it was interesting that only Nightforce has the balls to prevent that 5% discount at Optics Planet and no one else does, not Zeiss, Hensoldt, S&B, USO, Trijicon, Leupold or even Premier. I can see why SWFA doesn't put up with them. Well, they ain't getting my money this time. Good luck with that price control model. It's over the top.

Here's the Optics Planet 5% code if anyone is interested. Although, after reading this thread, I don't think it's necessary if you just make a call or two. Thanks all.

bx5sm9g
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Are you talking about the discount NF offers to LEO/ Military?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TwoGun you LE/Mil? </div></div>
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

I put an AD in the for sale section. Got alot of PM's.. FInally went with Euro Optics.
Just becarful before you buy and make sure the scope is in stock. Alot of guys had good deals, but were looking at a 6-8 week delay in getting the scopes in..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Advertise for bids that's a great idea!

I wonder how much time and effort is wasted on both the customers and the dealers end by trying to email/call dealers and dealers fielding constant inquiries to see what the "real" prices are for NF/USO/SB/PH/etc.

I guess on one hand it keeps the used prices up, since it seems most guys can sell the scopes used for just a couple hundred dollars under the fixed advertised pricing, which is probably still more than some dealers will sell them new for.

</div></div>
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jackalope33B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you talking about the discount NF offers to LEO/ Military?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TwoGun you LE/Mil? </div></div></div></div>

No the discount S&B offers to them. I was going to help him out if he was.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

oh ok gotcha.. I know NF offers a discount to LEO's but you need a agency letter, then your sheriff has to sign off on it etc etc..
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the map policy is a good thing, it keeps the value of the scopes up. call around, you might be surprised at some of the deals you can find.</div></div>

The MAP policy is a good thing for YOU.

Its certainly not a good thing for the consumer which is why its normally illegal in every country apart from the USA.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Here is the deal on MAP: manufacturers like it for a couple of reasons.

1) It limits channel conflict. When you have vendors trying to undercut each other on price, they start wondering if someone else is getting a better deal and they start to resent the manufacturer for handing out volume discounts. If NF were to cut vendors volume discounts AND allow them to sell on price, they might end up with one vendor with the lowest price and the lowest cost basis doing almost all of their business. Now, they are beholden to that vendor and they have a difficult time building other channels.

2) It forces vendors to compete on service as opposed to price. A vendor can't just post the lowest price and expect to get the business. And because the margins are thicker, the dealer is incentivized to try and sell that scope.

Does the consumer benefit? I would argue that ToddM is wrong... yes, it is a waste of time to try and call a bunch of dealers to get the best price on a NF scope. So a consumer doesn't have to do it. You don't have to call around or worry if you got the best price. You did. It is 95% of MAP. Try though you might, that is the best price, so no need to go out of your way to find a guy or make a shady Internet transaction. Buy from a dealer you trust. It makes the purchase process a little easier knowing that shopping around will do you no good.

As far as finding bargain basement prices and vendors, yes, MAP is bad for consumers in this way. But otherwise, it is not a horrible thing. It certainly props up resale values as well.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Yes, but Nightforce goes too far with MAP. It's one thing to control advertised price, it's another to go out of your way to prevent across the board company discounts on your particular item. If Midway USA wants to offer me $20 off purchases of over $150, then Nightforce should have no concern. Nope, no such luck.

As I stated, they are the only scope that Optics Planet would not grant their company wide 5% off MAP. It's not that I can't afford it, it's just the principle that I don't care for.

Call me old fashion, but I think it's un-American. Some would say buying a Japanese scope is un-American but for me that's not the issue. The issue is competition and they seem to want to kill that for their product to the nth degree.

So be it. I felt like talking about it. No biggie.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

I agree!!! NF is getting their $$, so why make a company loose business because they wont honor a $20 discount?
NF, I hate to tell you, but dealers are under cutting each other for a sale.. Its the american way for a good deal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TwoGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, but Nightforce goes too far with MAP. It's one thing to control advertised price, it's another to go out of your way to prevent across the board company discounts on your particular item. If Midway USA wants to offer me $20 off purchases of over $150, then Nightforce should have no concern. </div></div>
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) is not a minimum sale price, so stating that one gets the best price if paying the MAP at 95% of retail is inaccurate. Vendors can still set their own lower prices and compete with one another for sales, they just can't advertise these prices.

The result of this is that a price-conscious buyer like Jackalope must either call around for "real" pricing, or use his clever method of posting for bids. I'm somewhat torn, as I'm not a fan of MAP as a consumer, but support freedom to set terms of a contract between NF and their vendors.

Maybe I'll avoid the moral dilemma and buy a Vortex...
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

I just ordered a NightForce from Eurooptic and they were great. I did not pay suggested retail ... just let them know you heard about them from this board.

Give them a call they will take care of you.

http://www.eurooptic.com/
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the deal on MAP: manufacturers like it for a couple of reasons.

Does the consumer benefit? I would argue that ToddM is wrong... yes, it is a waste of time to try and call a bunch of dealers to get the best price on a NF scope. So a consumer doesn't have to do it. You don't have to call around or worry if you got the best price. You did. It is 95% of MAP. </div></div>

The problem is that's not true, it would only be true if everyone sold for their advertised price and that price was fixed, no exceptions. No calling around to 10 dealers and haggling with them all claiming to have the best price that they can't "advertise" to see what free stuff they offer and what the price really is.

I've done the calling, and the prices you get aren't the same (close in the grand scheme) so they do vary from dealer to dealer (though again close). In addition you have things like free shipping, free stuff thrown in, etc. etc. except now it's some super secret special handshake NF club doing business under the table. Worse yet it creates this climate of secrecy where customers see all these posts on boards as if dealer X has this amazing price all you have to do is call them up, you can't even get a simple price by PM/email anymore. Plus in some of those calls, it seems like it's just an opportunity for the dealer to use high pressure sales tactics....again the used car salesmen experience.

I see no benefit for the consumer in that process (except in resale) only for NF
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

The idea that MAP benefits the customer is a myth propagated by scope manufacturers. It benefits manufacturers alone, and only ensures that scopes will cost the end user more.

Then they argue that "the scope will hold its value more" and won't become a bargain basement item. This statement only proves my point. MAP has artificially increased scope prices above and beyond the feature set they offer. For any company to sell a product to a dealer at a set price, and then dictate to them how much money they are to make on the sale of it is anti-American at best and communist at worst.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Actually, I didnt speak to anyone on the phone except for when I placed my order. When I posted a topic telling all retailers I was interested in a New NF scope, my PM box was out of control.. My post saved me over $200 on a new NF with zero stop/ HS Turrets.. There was no hagling with the sales guy. I waited for what I though was a good deal, and jumped on it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhnmdahl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The result of this is that a price-conscious buyer like Jackalope must either call around for "real" pricing, or use his clever method of posting for bids.</div></div>
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For any company to sell a product to a dealer at a set price, and then dictate to them how much money they are to make on the sale of it is anti-American at best and communist at worst.

</div></div>

Lightforce engages in communism. Huh.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Its all about the Benjamin's. I know, I can't afford
one of these. But someday maybe.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

This Nightforce Pricing Program reminds me of the golf club companies (PING) that operated exactly this way over the years. They refused to cut prices so everyone paid retail. It also kept the used Ping's at top value, while everyone else's used clubs sold at a reasonable price.

That business model fell by the wayside in todays economy. Ping now imports their club heads from China, and their dealers advertise very competitive prices. Many of them sell on the internet and even e-bay. They realized that they needed to change to compete in todays marketplace.

I wanted a NF, but have since decided that a Leupold, Sightron, or Burris would work just as good for my LR shooting. I don't plan to drink the NF Kool-Aid...I can spend my money elsewhere!
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Jesus the amount of butt hurt in this thread is amazing.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

OK here is the way it is here in Australia it is illegal to fix prices if someone wants to buy a scope from NF for a grand and advertise it the next day for $500 there is nothing any one can do if you are a dealer and take a loos it is OK. the problem exists when you are a stocking dealer the lowest wholesale price that is advertised on their dearler listings. I dont know if they have special deals below that but they assure us they dont. then you see scopes advertised for less than you can buy them for it realy makes it hard to sell the scopes. we sell the scopes we stock because we build the rifles for customers aswell so having a suitable scope in stock or can get it for a customer will be good faith to the customer and they are happier to pay the rate we charge even if it is slightly more. but we make very little on the scopes and do it as a service and essentualy sell them at trade price and we are undercut.

Good for the consumer but not to good for the retailer. i like the idea of MAP as then you are on a fair advertising level and then you can do a deal with the consumer. we now advertise that we have Nightforce Scopes but call for price then if there is an interested party they can call and get the best price we can supply them for. If they get it cheeper elsewhere then so be it but we are not an optics buisness a custom firle buisness that also stocks and sells Nightforce scopes.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Some of you guys have this backwards, its not the MAP that is at issue here it is the dealers margin. There is not that much to work with on high end optics and the margin is not at 50% like you seem to think. If it were you would see the 3,200 S&B at 1,900. So why do you expect a dealer to invest 20,000 in inventory to make a hundred bucks? Do

If you want that type of mental discount go with Sightron, Bushnell or Leupold all which I have seen for nearly half the original MAP price on sale. NF and S&B Etc. hold good value on the used scope market because they are worth the money.

<span style="font-style: italic">The guys that are giving you $200 off of a NF or an S&B are doing you a </span><span style="font-weight: bold">great big favor</span> and are heros of the Hide. If you dont beleive me go to your local gunshop and ask for a S&B I would bet that the price is above MAP.

One other note, NF is not price fixing, the manufacturer can't tell a dealer that they can't sell at a lower price. If a dealer wants to spend $3000.00 on a scope and sell it to you for $500.00 nobody is stoping him exept his common sense, he just cant advertise it due to his agreement. MAP is that agreement.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Then they argue that "the scope will hold its value more" and won't become a bargain basement item. This statement only proves my point. MAP has artificially increased scope prices above and beyond the feature set they offer. For any company to sell a product to a dealer at a set price, and then dictate to them how much money they are to make on the sale of it is anti-American at best and communist at worst.

</div></div>

I think it does help hold up the value of a used scope. Also, I think it's capitalism at it's finest! They build a fine product a demand a set price for it. You, as a consumer living in a free society have the freedom to decide if you want to pay that price or shop elsewhere.
 
Re: Nightforce Resale Price Maintenance

Price fixing involves collusion amongst competitors. Lightforce is not engaging in price fixing. MAP is different. I don't know whether it is illegal in other countries. It is legal here. Lightforce can't dictate to vendors what price they sell at, but if they find a vendor is selling substantially below MAP, they just stop selling to that vendor... that doesn't sound communistic or un-American. It is just business.
 
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