Mine was almost identical. Shots 95-100 were about 60fps faster than 70-75. I think I sped up another 20 around 350
- Thread starter 6.5creedmoor
- Start date
So far my barrel ( 24 inch .900 straight taper 6mm creedmoor, origin prefit) has been been very accurate and has sped up 30fps in around 200 rounds.
A buddy and I went to Arena Training Facility in Blakley, GA this weekend, and for no experience shooting a lot over 800 yards I was getting hits consistently out to 1250 and even managed to connect at 1502 and 1720 ( that was realistically as much luck as any part of the barrel or shooter though, the winds were kind of weird on Saturday when we were there, with the atmospheric conditions we weren't seeing any trace, and 6mm bullets don't show much impact on misses that far.)
A buddy and I went to Arena Training Facility in Blakley, GA this weekend, and for no experience shooting a lot over 800 yards I was getting hits consistently out to 1250 and even managed to connect at 1502 and 1720 ( that was realistically as much luck as any part of the barrel or shooter though, the winds were kind of weird on Saturday when we were there, with the atmospheric conditions we weren't seeing any trace, and 6mm bullets don't show much impact on misses that far.)
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I have a PBB .243AI and a .223 and both shoot as good as my Bartleins.
Received my PBB barrel about a month and a half ago. Still have not shot it because I'm waiting for my optic. Details on the rifle below, will provide updates hopefully soon on how it shoots.
Defiance Ruckus, 338 Lapua Magnum, .750" bolt dia
1:8 twist (supposedly fine for the 275gr monometal bullets that I will try sooner or later if I can source some N570)
26", .900" taperless, 5R, shouldered - I'm told my action was to be used to get the headspacing for Ruckus LA prefits and a new page would be brought up for these specific actions. Theoretically they'll also work for the anTi and Tenacity actions as those dimensions are claimed to be identical.
Relevant info, agnostic of barrel:
MCS DBM LA Mini Chassis, pre-bedded in a EH1A
TriggerTech Special
MBM Ti 5-port Beast
After break-in, I will be working up a load with Badlands Precision Super Bulldozer 240gr, with VVN560, Lapua brass, GM215M primers. Target MV is 3100 if I can get away with it without signs of pressure. Will seat .030" off the lands to start with, hoping the SBD's are not too sensitive to depth.
Barrel was confirmed to be correct twist, and borescoping showed the bore and rifling to be very good (opinion based, I know). I understand that it needs to shoot before I can make any judgement, but I'm very happy with them from what I have experienced first-hand. They're doing great work.
Defiance Ruckus, 338 Lapua Magnum, .750" bolt dia
1:8 twist (supposedly fine for the 275gr monometal bullets that I will try sooner or later if I can source some N570)
26", .900" taperless, 5R, shouldered - I'm told my action was to be used to get the headspacing for Ruckus LA prefits and a new page would be brought up for these specific actions. Theoretically they'll also work for the anTi and Tenacity actions as those dimensions are claimed to be identical.
Relevant info, agnostic of barrel:
MCS DBM LA Mini Chassis, pre-bedded in a EH1A
TriggerTech Special
MBM Ti 5-port Beast
After break-in, I will be working up a load with Badlands Precision Super Bulldozer 240gr, with VVN560, Lapua brass, GM215M primers. Target MV is 3100 if I can get away with it without signs of pressure. Will seat .030" off the lands to start with, hoping the SBD's are not too sensitive to depth.
Barrel was confirmed to be correct twist, and borescoping showed the bore and rifling to be very good (opinion based, I know). I understand that it needs to shoot before I can make any judgement, but I'm very happy with them from what I have experienced first-hand. They're doing great work.
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It should tighten up as the barrel wears in.This has been my experience with their barrels
Screwed mine on today. Ruger American, fluted #4, 26in, 1:7.5, 6.5cm. Hope to shoot it in a couple days.
You're getting PVA barrels in 3-4 weeks average? I'm curious because I got one not long ago and I like you also love it but it took right at 10 weeks.
ordered one a few months ago from PVA. 2 weeks + shipping from order....but sounds like storms and sickness has them a little slower right now.
Wow, wish mine had gone that well. I ordered one middle of May and received late July. I do need another barrel so deciding who to go with on the next one.
email or call PVA. They are doing really well with communication right now.
@pheerles thanks for sharing. A couple questions for you. I assume this is your 338 LM? How do you know the 5th shot was all you? Even with that shot the group looks pretty decent. Would be interesting to see a couple more 5 shot groups from your rifle but that looks very very good. I'm glad you posted this as I actually just ordered a PBB yesterday, so got my 12 week clock started. Went with them due to reamer selection, they had the chamber I was looking for without an extra fee.
Yes, my 338LM detailed a few posts above. I had known the 5th shot was all me because I was rushing through every step in my shot process. A one minute warning was given for a cease fire on the line, and I wanted to get a full 5 shot string to not have inconsistent barrel temperatures. I'm in the middle of load development and that grouping came up as the best.
Here's a couple more 5 shot groups, but clearly not as great as the one in my previous post (this is to be expected during load development):
This is the first three shots ever out of this barrel:
Here's another one I took during barrel break-in (didn't really need it); these were shots 21-40 (yes, it's a 20 shot group) after I decided to not continue breaking it in. I'm sure I made some mistakes. Was also dealing with mirage on a particularly hot day, not to mention from the barrel heat itself. Still, I was freakin floored enough at this that I snapped a photo. I'm waiting on a response from PBB because I want to immediately buy another couple barrels (exactly like this one).
All my break-in shots were done with factory ammo - Prime Ammunition Match+, 300gr (I believe they're made by Ruag Swiss) HPBT running at 2640-2660fps.
Everything was shot at 100y. Once I finalize my precision load I'll walk it out to 300y, verify drop and BC, and continue on out verifying drop out to 1000y and hopefully beyond.
Shot some .6-.8 groups working up to 45.8gr RL26 behind some 156's @ 2,770fps. I was jumping the grand canyon at 2.870 COAL. Bought an Accurate mag to get a bit closer to the lands.
Pretty happy with mine. Ordered back in late March, was right around 7 weeks. Easy 0.3moa shooter with several loads. During load development, no loads were over .75moa. None. I'll order another soon for a 6mm AI build. I found the comment about Logan's social skills a bit odd. I've talked with him several times on the phone, emails back and forth, etc. Didn't find him awkward at all. Busy, to the point, but super helpful and responsive. When I trashed my barrel nut using a bad torque wrench, I had another within 3 days.
Tikka variable shoulder, 26" 6.5-284, .800 Varmint.
Tikka variable shoulder, 26" 6.5-284, .800 Varmint.
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I have two barrels from this guy's, both are chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. Wait time on my second barrel was a bit long, but both barrels are accurate, .5 moa or better consistently. I was pretty surprised with one of my rifle at 200 yards, I was able to get a 5 round group at 1/2 inch. This guy's are very helpful and easy to deal with, I thought something was wrong with my first barrel, I just couldn't get it to group well with different powder charge and seating depth. I was using norma 130, I called this guy's to ask what their experience was with this chamber. There is nothing wrong with norma, they shot very accurately with my previous barrel. Their recommendation was to run eldm 140 and it grouped very well. I use their barrels on competition and so far I've had very good results with them. I will be ordering a 6mm creedmoor barrel from them soon, hope I'll have the same results.
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About to pull the trigger on a PBB barrel. At the beginning of this thread, some of you had issues with quality. By any chance have any of you received a more recent barrel and the installation has gone smoothly? How do you think they compare to a Criterion or Shilen pre fit?
I have a 6.5-284 Norma in a .800 Varmint contour from PBB. I'm very happy with the fit and accuracy of the barrel, although I ordered it far too heavy for my needs. Even though it has less than 120 rounds down it, I was going to replace it with a lighter contour barrel, as well as adding a couple of more for other builds. While I was initially very impressed with the communication from PBB, in the middle of discussing the new barrels, they went completely radio silent despite repeated attempts at contact. I'll admit that contact was via email, with both Logan and MD, and I did NOT try to follow up with a phone call, but didn't feel I needed to do so. That was a bad sign for me, and I went elsewhere for my orders.
The quality of the barrel I have is very good, and as I said, initial communication was very good, but suddenly dropping the conversation (yes I know everyone is busy) was enough for me to look at other options. If you are comfortable with their comms, the quality of my barrel was very good.
I ended up ordering a Carbon Six for the 6.5-284 and a McGowen for my 244 Ackley, in part because of their responsiveness, and their willingness to do "other" chambers than most of the others. My buddy has a Shilen (not a prefit) that he is very happy with.
The quality of the barrel I have is very good, and as I said, initial communication was very good, but suddenly dropping the conversation (yes I know everyone is busy) was enough for me to look at other options. If you are comfortable with their comms, the quality of my barrel was very good.
I ended up ordering a Carbon Six for the 6.5-284 and a McGowen for my 244 Ackley, in part because of their responsiveness, and their willingness to do "other" chambers than most of the others. My buddy has a Shilen (not a prefit) that he is very happy with.
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I have a PBB 22” 6.5CM on my Tikka. I’m super happy with it. Holds sub 1/2 moa. I didn’t have any QC issues at all.
I have a gredel barrel shoots very good, am one of the ones that had an issue. Barrel wouldn’t thread al the way in my action but they took care of it. Am getting one for my Howa 6.5 CM soon.
I have several of their barrels. To be honest I’ll say they shoot very well, as good as any good quality button rifled barrel. The great thing about their barrels is they have lots of options if you’re chasing a bolt gun barrel. I have a 224 Valkyrie 6.5 twist, a 6.5 Grendel 7.5 twist, and a 6GT 7 twist which was converted from a 6 Dasher. All shoot really well but the Grendel shoots the best. (Just started load development for the GT and Valkyrie so too early to really say) All of these are for a Bighorn Origin. Now the down side is their excruciating wait times.
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The wait time go up? I grabbed mine in March and had it in a few weeks. I guess everything is backed up now.
Ya the wait is long right now, which is the only downside. They are good guys who I shoot with at local matches. I have a 6GT from them which hovers a hair above 1/2 moa out at 600. Recently went 2/2 on a 4” truing bar at 800 yards and stopped there while I felt good about myself lol
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I’m not sure as of now but 5-6 months back they quoted 8-10 weeks so I was not happy.
How long did yours take? They are quoting 10-12 weeks as of sometime this spring or summer I believe, I have been watching their website for a long time, haha, but I finally ordered one. I ordered on 9/24, they shipped it on 12/3, exactly 10 weeks, so I'm not complaining at all. If a company quotes a lead time range I generally assume the longer time is more likely the real lead time, plus you need to add shipping time. That's generally my experience with my work. I basically planned to not see it until Christmas week so to get it delivered by UPS on 12/7 I was very pleased. I don't know many companies that can beat a 10 week lead time on a barrel ready to thread into your action and shoot, sometimes you wait that long or longer on just a blank. I've heard Keystone can beat that but I have not personally tried them. I've also heard PVA can but my experience on a barrel from them this year was closer to 12 weeks, which I wasn't upset about because I expected it to take that long based on feedback I had read. Where are you getting barrels quicker?
The one I ordered was for a Bighorn Origin. I bought a PVA barrel earlier this year and was very pleased with it, shoots great, but I went with PBB on this one mainly for cost. PVA has occasional sales that make their barrels on par cost wise with PBB, but they don't own the reamer I wanted and PBB does (7SST) so with PBB no reamer rental fee. Also I like that you can get a 27" barrel from PBB, not a huge difference but it was something that I liked. To answer your question, the installation was very smooth, took me only a few minutes to pull my old barrel and install the PBB barrel. No threading issues whatsoever. Pics attached. Hope this helps.
I should also mention, you asked how they compare to Shilen and Criterion. From what I've seen all the Criterion pre-fits are barrel nut style, which is fine but I like shouldered barrels. Shilen offers shouldered but when you get them you still have to have a smith set the headspace. PBB and PVA and I believe Proof Research and Keystone Accuracy all offer a shouldered barrel ready to thread in and shoot, which is a huge value add if you ask me. There are a few retailers that carry some of Proof's pre-fits as well, from what I've seen they are a great bargain as long as you're looking for an extremely standard chamber, like 6.5 creed, 6 creed etc.
I've used their blanks and chambered and thread them for myself and customers, they're all shooting great. I ordered 6 sendero profiles from them that should be in any day now. I have one unturned blank I'm doing a 28 Nosler in also for a customer, I suspect the same results I've had with the others.
When I initially started buying barrels through PBB, it was taking 2-4 weeks and the last barrel was 6 weeks which was the most recent. I’m not going to knock them they do good work but I’m not willing to wait. I generally order through Patriot Valley Arms now as Josh and Joe don’t like to sit on orders too long and they’ve been getting me barrels within a month unless I paid up for rush. I’ll say this much though, Josh is a skilled machinist. All of his work is an art form. Josh and Joe have done several 6.5CM’s for me and their top notch shooters. They’ll even finish your provided blank. I had a Proof Research barrel done by them.
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I love the bighorns I have several. I use the SAC modular barrel vise and it’s perfect.
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I see, yeah I suppose if the expectation was set at a couple weeks to a month then it started taking a couple months it would be disappointing. I had a similar conversation about PVA in this very thread about 3 months back with another user, he said the same thing as you that PVA was getting him barrels very quickly. I went back and looked and my PVA 25 creed took just a touch over 9 weeks (I originally mentioned 12, but I was wrong). I'm not sure why mine was so much longer than you two, maybe you guys are on the "in crowd" haha, or maybe it was an issue with 25 cal, not sure. Regardless, when PVA took 9 weeks and some change and PBB 10 weeks you can see why I didn't think PBB's lead time was bad at all. No argument at all on PVA quality by the way, my 25 creed shoots bugholes.
I'm thinking about getting a pre-fit for my Tikka 243, but I can't decide between PBB or Mcgowen. Has anyone ordered a shouldered prefit from Mcgowen lately?
I ordered a McGowen when I could not get PBB to respond on some questions I had about chambering. Dan, from McGowen was extremely prompt on responding to my questions, and McGowen offered the chamber and contour I needed with zero hassles. I'm hoping for good shooter!
Ironically (or maybe not), after posting yesterday about my disappointment with PBB not responding, I had a new response in my email this morning--27 days after my initial inquiry and two follow requests for a response. Might have just slipped through the cracks, I suppose. I have a couple of more builds in progress, so we'll see where those go.
I ordered a 6 Dasher shouldered barrel for my Tikka on December 3rd. I went with a 900 Varmint 26" with the flats for my comp rifle. They are doing a .275" neck for the Peterson Dasher brass. I will let you know when it shows up. The order confirmation says 10-12 weeks or longer.
Oh that’s great news to hear Peterson’s is making 6 Dasher brass. I had the Norma 6 Dasher chamber so I kinda screwed myself. But I lucked out and it was easy to convert to the 6GT by just opening up the chamber. I’m very happy with the 6GT so far. I really like Peterson’s brass, I run it for my 6.5 Creedmoor hunting rifle.
I just wish they hand lapped their barrels.
I probably wouldn’t Care to much but I bore scope, and seeing the inside next to a hand lapped barrel is quite a difference.
I probably wouldn’t Care to much but I bore scope, and seeing the inside next to a hand lapped barrel is quite a difference.
I wasn’t aware they didn’t do that. For $400+ that’s a no-go.
Yeah kind of a bummer... but they do seem to make half moa barrels. I haven’t been able to get much better than that consistently with their barrels.
I noticed that PBB is now offering shouldered pre-fits for Tikka T3s. PVA has been for a while so that's another option for you to look at.
I'm glad you asked about McGowen because I actually just ordered a McGowen for an old Sako, shouldered pre-fit chambered in 20 practical, looking forward to seeing exactly what I get. But what I'm most concerned about with McGowen, similar to Shilen, is that they say you must have a smith install the barrel (to set headspace etc). I would much prefer to just screw it on, verify headspace and shoot. I am thinking if Tikka actions are consistent enough that PBB and PVA will offer shouldered pre-fits than the Sakos might be as well? Mine is about 50-60 years old, but still I bet those actions are pretty consistent. Any insights? @Tohopko have you ever ordered a McGowen before? I asked Dan and he didn't commit explicitly, basically he said "your smith may have to bump the shoulder back a bit". What I'm hoping is that he builds it to the action spec and doesn't intentionally leave a little bit of extra shoulder on there, but not sure what they do.
I was kind leaning towards Mcgowen because of their price, and they offer tons of different contours. Ive seen that Carbon 6 uses Mcgowen blanks, so they must produce a decent product. But I don't see a lot of feedback on their prefits.
Where did you get the information that they don't hand lap? When you go to the barrel material options on their website the first sentence reads "All McGowen barrels are precision button rifled, stress relieved and hand lapped to ensure consistency and ease of cleaning." FYI for all, my McGowen was $330, threaded, chambered, contoured and crowned, I didn't do muzzle threads. I've paid $330 for a blank before. Shipping is about 30 bucks. Very affordable barrels.
I have not ordered a McGowen before. I'm looking forward to this one. I still have a couple of others to get ordered. For my kind of shooting (non-competition) target and hunting, I'm not sure the extra 30% in cost is worth the jump to some of the other barrel manufacturers. I like turning in small groups, but so far quite a number of factory barrels and the PBB have done half moa and better for me with handloads. Good enough.
With Shilen now offering their "Alternut" barrels for the Howa/Vanguard, I may be picking on of those up for my 6.5CM. Haven't decided yet for the 7mm-08 Tikka build.
As for the older Sakos, keep in mind that the newer Tikka T3s (and likely the A7s) are machined on much more modern equipment, and likely have great consistency.
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That's what I was thinking with my 243. It's going to be used for hunting and shooting steel at my range, which is only 400 yards. So if I can a pre-fit for $400 that will hold 1/2" to 3/4", that's good enough for me.
Yes exactly, in my case it was pretty hard to justify a 500-600 dollar barrel to shoot p-dogs, so when I found McGowen it was finally an option that made more sense financially. I've been wanting a 20 practical for a long time but just couldn't stomach the barrel cost. That coupled with the fact that I've only found about 3 manufacturers that make them for my old Sako, it was a no brainer, even if I do have to get someone with a lathe to set headspace for me, but I'm honestly hoping I can just thread it in torque it and go, we'll see. I don't know that much about machining history I guess, meaning I have no idea if the newer high end equipment is actually more consistent or just easier to operate than the machines from the 60s, but your point is well founded as it certainly could have been much harder or impossible to maintain those kinds of tolerances back then. Plus even if it was possible back then, that's not a guarantee Sako actually did it, there are certainly plenty of manufacturers who don't do it today.
I'm curious, since you ordered for a Tikka, did Dan or the website tell you that you need to have a Smith set the final headspace? Or do you expect to be able to just thread it on and go?
