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Rifle Scopes Premier, S&B, Kahles or March?...

J

JWEM

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Minuteman
Mar 2, 2010
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Surrey, England
I'm looking to replace my Nightforce NXS 8-32x56 (MOA) that I have on my .308, as the field of view at 8x magnification is not large enough for 100/200/300 yard multi position shooting that I do (pop-up and moving targets). This same scope is fine for the 600-1000 yard courses of fire but I would like to have something in FFP for wind holds on any magnification.

After much research I have come to a short list of:

Premier 5-25x56, MOA with MOA-ER reticle
S&B 3-20x50 , Mrad with H2CMR
Kahles 6-24x56, Mrad with MIL4
March 3-24x42, MOA with FMA-1

As you can see I'm not bothered by MOA or Mrad but have a tendency to go for MOA as it's what I have most experience with.

The main requirements I think for me are:

• Optically and mechanically exceptional
• Very good adjustment clicks
• Have a large field of view and thick enough reticle for close range
• Have a high enough magnification to see a 4" fluorescent spotting disk at 1000 yards
• Reticle that is thin enough to precisely engage sub 1 MOA target at 1000 yards (may go out further when 7-08 is built)
• Fully featured - zero stop, illumination, second turn indicator etc
• Not overly heavy
• Good and generous eye box/large exit pupil
• A good reticle for windage holds (I always dial elevation)
• Well finished

I'm leaning towards the Premier but have heard that in the past they suffered mechanical problems (main tube alignment), the reticle may be too thin to see at 100 and its heavy. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a perfect scope as they all have things I don't like.

I'm not going to be able to see and test all of the above so was wondering if anyone on the hide could offer me some advise. I'm mainly looking for comparisons and anything bad about the above scopes.

Cheers for your help.

JWEM
 
If you are considering a 5-25 Premier, I would recommend also considering a 5-25 S&B.
 
I have experience (own/owned) with them all except the Premier.

The Kahles is optically fantastick and decked out in every way. I love it. Look at the 3-12 as well, the K312. I think its the best allround scope there is.
The 3-24 March is also fantastic. There are no second turn indicator, but the scope is the lightest and most compact.
The S&B is good, but I prefer both the March and Kahles.
 
Your requests are all over the board. I really like my PH 5-25's and I really like my March 3-24 but, they are so dissimilar that it's not a fair compairison.

The March would be great for some of your requirments but "not so great" for others. Same with the PH.

Based on your desire for a "large exit pupil" & "windage holds", the March is out. Based on your "not overly heavy" requirment, the PH is out.

The glass on both are GREAT and so are the turrets but, they are different. My favorite turret is the PH and the March is 2nd in line. The clicks on the March are excellent and the dial is simple to read (zero stop is simple as well). The FOV on the March at 3 is better than the FOV of the PH on 5. The March is BY FAR the smallest and lightest of the bunch.

Choose your top three "must haves" and go from there.
 
I looked very hard at the S&B 5-25x56 as its the standard that most others are compared to and a few of the other shooters in my club use them. They are nice but I didn't like the tunnelling you get at low power, you basically have a 7.5-25x56. See graph.

MrSwede, I like the look of the Kahles but in some reviews they said that chromatic aberration was present at higher magnifications and that image resolution was not quite as good as other top brand scopes. Would you agree with this or would you say this is not the case?

Goin'Hot, yeah that is a lot of requirements and I understand that I will have to make compromises, just trying to make the best compromise. If you where to pick between your March and Premier which would it be and why? What reticles do you have and how do you find them at each end of the magnification range.

Cheers
 

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I own both the Premier and the Schmidt with LT. Frankly, I'm happy with both and would have no problem using either. I think the Premier has better turrets. I think the S&Bs zoom and parallax adjustment knob is done better. Image quality is equal... except the S&B tunnels badly under 8x.

At this level, it's all nitpicking.

Never been behind a Kahles.

The reason I've never gone March is because every report I've read, says it's great on the bench, but in a tactical or moving situation, the eye box is unforgiving.
 
hk dave, from looking at the numbers and reading the reviews of the March (probably the same ones as you) that is the impression I get. Shame as I like the idea of a lighter scope but don't want to sacrifice usability for the privilege. What reticles do you use and how do you find them at different magnifications? When you say Schmidt, do you mean 3-20x50, if so what do you think of the locking turrets and MTC?
 
JWEM said:
I looked very hard at the S&B 5-25x56 as its the standard that most others are compared to and a few of the other shooters in my club use them. They are nice but I didn't like the tunnelling you get at low power, you basically have a 7.5-25x56.

Goin'Hot, yeah that is a lot of requirements and I understand that I will have to make compromises, just trying to make the best compromise. If you where to pick between your March and Premier which would it be and why? What reticles do you have and how do you find them at each end of the magnification range.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I'll start by saying that I'll never own a S&B 5-25 because of the tunneling. That's just too much money to spend on an optic to have that limitation.

Now, with that out of the way, I RARELY run my optics below 12X however, there was one stage at a match where I found 3X on the March to be a God send as was the 10yd parallax adjustment. I couldn't have done that with any other scope (other than the new Hensholdt for $7K).

My reticles are Gen II XR and the FML-1. This is where it gets "tricky". Both scopes are typically shot between 16-19X as I typically find mirage to be an issue above that mag. On rare occasions, I run them higher but, that is VERY RARE. The reticle on the March is great up to ~18X. Above that, the reticle commands too much of the sight picture. Yes, I fully understand the fact that it's a FFP scope so, the reticle commands the same percentage of the view in relationship to the target. If you can't grasp the idea of the reticle "commanding to much of the view", you'll just have to get behind one. The PH is too thin below 11X to really be functional so, they both have their limitations.

Since neither scope is used at min or max mag, I don't hold the high mag "sight picture" of the March against it. Find another scope for the price that starts at 3X where you still have 24X at the top end to use when you need it for target i.d. or spotting. You won't. At least until you spend $7k.

Also, don't buy in to the thought process that you NEED high mag (over 20X) to shoot past 1000 yards. I've shot my PH out to 2350yds at a 24" target and it was done at 17X.

I also believe that the "unforgiving" eye box on the March is a misnomer. If you have your rifle set up where a "proper" cheek weld is mandatory, then there should be no issue. I have my cheek weld set up so I am consistent in my mount so, I've never had a single issue. I understand that some positional situations MAY cause an issue but, I've never ran in to it.

When the power knob is turned down, the reticle on the PH is difficult to see below 11X. The March was still functional at 3X but, you certainly won't be ranging with it. The PH has hold offs where the March does not. I dial my elevation so, the tree reticle of the PH looks neat but the only time I put it to use is when measuring my own miss below the center hold point. If you dial and use the center cross as the hold point, both scopes function equally.

If I could only own one, it would be the PH. 90% of my shooting is done after driving within 40 yards of the shooting position. The PH is a monster of a scope and the rifles that wear them are not meant to be packed. I won't sell my March though. Right now it lives on my 22 trainer. I LOVE IT on that rifle. I was playing around at 500 yards a couple weeks ago and dialed 18.3 mils and held 8.5. I'm looking to add another one. The March had been on my 260 and 6.5 Creed prior to that. The 260 was a light weight rifle with a thin profile barrel and I was really looking for a small light weight scope and it performed perfectly.

As a side note, I've had a bunch of scopes and I recently purchased a Razor HD 5-20 and sold it before mounting. The March has spoiled me for "size vs mag" and I felt the size of the Razor was a deterrent. The March also packs a TON of elevation in to a 30mm tube.

And there is another benefit (in my mind) of the March. It has a 30 mm tube and you can use the Burris signature rings to gain additional elevation. The rings aren't loved by most (probably because they don't cost over $100) but, just remember, Burris signature rings were just used to set a 600 yd BR record.

You have a tough decision ahead of you and I wish you luck. I'll be happy to help with any more questions if I can.
 
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JWEM said:
hk dave, from looking at the numbers and reading the reviews of the March (probably the same ones as you) that is the impression I get. Shame as I like the idea of a lighter scope but don't want to sacrifice usability for the privilege. What reticles do you use and how do you find them at different magnifications? When you say Schmidt, do you mean 3-20x50, if so what do you think of the locking turrets and MTC?
Click to expand...

I REALLY want to love the March. Everything about it seems so awesome. Love the compactness and huge range. But in the end, the eye box is extremely important to me... or rather how forgiving it is. The other thing I find hard to believe in a scope with that wide of a magnification range... is that the image quality can compared to an S&B or Premier. Ilya said it does and he seems to know his stuff so I'll take his word for it... however from my personal... and limited understanding of optics (derived from 7-8 years of testing high end camera lenses), i found that smaller the magnification ratio = higher the quality.

I have the Gen 2XR for the Premier 5-25x56mm.... I think the subtensions are PERFECT in thickness for high magnification. It's a little thin for low magnification but I rarely run that rifle at low mag. Anyhow I absolutely love it.

For my S&B 5-25x56mm with Locking Turrets, I'm running a P4F... love it. The only thing I dislike is that the center crosshair isn't to scale with the rest of the reticle... meaning the edge of it isn't 1/2 mil or 1 mil... but instead it's like a strange number. If it was a perfect 1/2 mil or 1 mil, I'd think it was the perfect reticle. Works fine for me at high or low mag.... but i also don't generally run that rifle at low magnification. The tunneling is really annoying. :p

I think in the future, I'm gonna go MSR. I really like the concept. I dislike Horus. My favorite reticle is still the Nightforce MLR2... too bad nobody else has it.

The locking turrets are worthless to me as I'm never in a situation that I'd need them. I suppose someone whose life depends on it will find use for it though.

I love MTC. I know some people hate it, but I LOVE it. I have no problem coming out of the deeper mil detents. I remember my old Premier 3-15 had a problem with that... where lets say I was at 1 mil and needed to get to 1.1 mil, it would always skip to 1.2 or 1.3 mil because the detent was too heavy. My new Premier... not sure how they did it, but I've never had an issue with that, and the MTC is still OBVIOUS. I think the Premier has the perfect turret feel. The S&B is nearly as good... if I never felt the Premier, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to believe it could get better than the S&B.

If I had to choose between one and the other, I'd probably keep the Premier. Thankfully I don't have to choose. :)
 
I found the H2CMR in the 3-20 to be too small at low power and too big at high power. After looking through the 5-25 and 3-20 with it I chose the 5-25x56 S&B with H2CMR reticle. I shoot it as close as 10 yards (tac matches that throw in a stage of extremely close targets and you wouldn't believe how many people are way off on their shots). It tunnels but other then the before mentioned stages my reticle rarely goes below 7x and the tunneling means nothing to me. I have looked through a couple of Kahles 6-24's and am impressed. Premier seems to have stabilized since their earlier issues with ownership.
 
Thanks for the input all, your time spent is much appreciated.

Goin'Hot

Cheers for the pic! That is a hell of difference in size, I've read the numbers of their respective web sites but didn't visualize it being that different.

When at low mag with the premier does it help to turn the illumination on or doesn't it really make a difference? At low mag I don't need to range or read anything of the reticle but just use it to hit at 100 and 200 yards. I am thinking of going for the MOA-ER reticle which I believe is slightly thicker, line thickness of 0.1MOA over 0.75MOA of the Gen II XR.

I may have to reconsider the March it was my last choice but if the eye box isn't as bad as the numbers make out it may be worth a look. Hopefully the dealer in the UK will let me have a look and a play.

hk dave

Same as above in regards the Premier's reticle, Its really important to me to be able to use it just as a cross hair on 8 power and below so wondering if the illumination helps?

matt 2143

Shame to hear that about the H2CMR on the 3-20x50 as that is my favourite looking Mrad reticle.
 
JWEM said:
Thanks for the input all, your time spent is much appreciated.

Goin'Hot

Cheers for the pic! That is a hell of difference in size, I've read the numbers of their respective web sites but didn't visualize it being that different.

When at low mag with the premier does it help to turn the illumination on or doesn't it really make a difference? At low mag I don't need to range or read anything of the reticle but just use it to hit at 100 and 200 yards. I am thinking of going for the MOA-ER reticle which I believe is slightly thicker, line thickness of 0.1MOA over 0.75MOA of the Gen II XR.

I may have to reconsider the March it was my last choice but if the eye box isn't as bad as the numbers make out it may be worth a look. Hopefully the dealer in the UK will let me have a look and a play.

hk dave

Same as above in regards the Premier's reticle, Its really important to me to be able to use it just as a cross hair on 8 power and below so wondering if the illumination helps?

matt 2143

Shame to hear that about the H2CMR on the 3-20x50 as that is my favourite looking Mrad reticle.
Click to expand...

OK, my $0.02...
My opinion.
For your tasks required March tac.3-24x or Hensoldt 3.5-26(actual sale no earlier than July).
P.S.
photo http://forum.ipsc.org.ua/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=6335
 
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I have a Kahles K312II and love it
Stellar glass that is so good I have no problem centering on.clay pigeons at 1k.
I have used it hunting past dark several times and for Whitetails I don't miss illumination.

Damned good scope that replaced a USO 3-17
 
That image reminded me of why I got rid of my 5-25 PMII...

With regards to Kahles and chromatic abberation I wouldn't worry. I've spent a decent amount of time behind the K624 and the K312 and never noticed anything else than pure joy looking through them. With the K312 it's really like having 15x on the top end because of the resolution. I've never had an image "pop" like with the Kahles.

I don't know about the eye box on March beeing picky, I've never noticed it on mine. At 3x you do get a little "fisheye" around the edges. That goes away already at 4-5x.
 
Kahles or Steiner MSR would be my choice

Alot of folk waiting on Kahles MSR and new coating release

Any except S$B would serve you well, you couldnt give me a S$B with there QA issues and snail like warranty service
 
I would echo Mr Swede's comments

The first time I looked through the K312 at 1k I literally said outloud "wow".

I had to run the USO at 15x to get the images to appear as big and the Kahles just had a better image.

Not bagging on the USO at all.

Loved the scope just prefer the smaller and lighter Khales.

I have also compared it directly against the Premeir LT 3-15 and prefer the Kahles.
 
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It's too bad I don't know anyone with a Khales around here... would love to look through one.
 
JWEM said:
Goin'Hot

Cheers for the pic! That is a hell of difference in size, I've read the numbers of their respective web sites but didn't visualize it being that different.

When at low mag with the premier does it help to turn the illumination on or doesn't it really make a difference? At low mag I don't need to range or read anything of the reticle but just use it to hit at 100 and 200 yards. I am thinking of going for the MOA-ER reticle which I believe is slightly thicker, line thickness of 0.1MOA over 0.75MOA of the Gen II XR.

I may have to reconsider the March it was my last choice but if the eye box isn't as bad as the numbers make out it may be worth a look. Hopefully the dealer in the UK will let me have a look and a play.
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell you if the illumination helps. I pulled the battery's out of both of my PH's after I made sure it actually worked. I'd hate to leave them in there and have them leak out and destroy the scope. I have no need for illumination. I bought the Non illuminated March.

I just did a little test on the reticle visibility on both light and dark targets with both scopes. I live in town so, it's difficult to do a lot of good testing with out raising eyebrows. The March has a decent visibility at 4X on light colored targets. The PH needed to be between 8-8.5X to be as usable. Add about 4X to each to get decent use on dark targets.

As hk dave said, the PH reticle is PERFECT at high mag levels. I feel the March does much better on the low end so, it really depends on what mag range you actually intend to use the scope at. The PH works "best" between 15-25X (when mirage allows you to run that much) and the March is "best" from ~8-18X. But, once again, I tend to run them both between 16-19X. The rotation of the power ring is opposite on the scopes as well. Higher mag on the March turn CW, where as it's CCW on the PH.

There are also a few numerical markings on the parallax adjustment of the March where as the PH just has a "triangle scale". Both of them operate the same in regards to rotation and I personally could care less about the markings on either. Roll the dial towards you for closer targets and away for further targets. It's a logical operation.

A neat little tid bit that I've remembered on the March is, there is 11 mils of hold over at 15X, and 15 mils of hold over at 11X. Not that it really matters but, I find myself setting the mag ring based on the visible mils below the center dot.
 
Having owned a few of the scopes on your list but the March and the Kahles (I have been behind a few Kahles 6-24s). Turrets go to the Premier IMO, very tactile solid clicks and I love the MTC clunk on full mil, second would be the double turn S&B turret, I never got used to the MTC locking turret but its well thought out. The Kahles turrets felt good but didnt have quite as precise clicks between the adjustments, you still knew where they were though. The GenII XR reticle in the PH is also a favorite of mine, I just sold a S&B 5-25 P4F due to just coming off of a PH G2XR and liking it so much. As far as the reticles usefulness on lower magnification, that is just the nature of the beast with any FFP optic, its either too thick on high power or too thin on lower power. Both the PH 5-25 and S&B 5-25 are damn big scopes, no way around that fact, the PH is a few oz heavier but your splitting hairs at that point. Optical clarity and low light performance goes to the S&B, but the PH is not far behind. As I mentioned I have shot with the Kahles 6-24 but didnt have enough time to get familiar with it, seemed like a fine optic, nice reticle (a little thicker than the P4F) and optics looked like they were on par with the S&Bs.

Kirk R
 
Absolutely love my March 3-25x42. I have the low illumination option, but haven't needed to use it much. The eye relief and exit pupil issue is greatly exagerated and I've had no problems with mine; however I usually don't shoot with my rifle upside down or sideways. The size and weight of the March is what hooked me, as I already knew that the glass would be superb based upon world-wide competition reports. I have seen some statements that the March tactical is more of a comp scope and thus would not prove to be very durable. I don't know what flavor of kool-aid those guys had been drinking, but the March is extremely well built and seems to me that it will out live just about any scope out there.
Skip
 
diderr said:
Wow! Quite a difference in size there. I was looking a March through Kelbys when I bought my Premier. March is more of a Benchrest scope IMO. And it has Japanese glass, and 5 year warranty. But I heard they will still honor it after the 5 years.
Click to expand...
I love my March F 3X24 42mm. You can see the length and weight advantage. Clear, bright glass and novel zero stop. Tracks well. Used my scope for almost 1year on my 308 without issues. March FX 5X40 56mm going strong also on my MRAD 338LM. Truly rugged scopes. Center dot a great feature for small targets at great distance. S&B has only 2 year warranty!
 
sib1948 said:
I love my March F 3X24 42mm. You can see the length and weight advantage. Clear, bright glass and novel zero stop. Tracks well. Used my scope for almost 1year on my 308 without issues. March FX 5X40 56mm going strong also on my MRAD 338LM. Truly rugged scopes. Center dot a great feature for small targets at great distance. S&B has only 2 year warranty!
Click to expand...

By Problem I highlighted myself to a few models MARCH tac.:
1-10x SFP
1-8x FFP
3-24x FFP
5-40x FFP
8-80x SFP
I have not tried it yet Hensoldt 3.5-26x.
But I believe MARCH #1.
 
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I have owned all but the march, so take this with a grain of salt. I just sold my las SB 5-25 and went with the Kahles 624. Kahles is the tactical arm of Swarovski and so the edge to edge clarity and overall brightness is fantastic. The tunneling on the SB was really annoying, but more so I was just interested in trying the Kahles that is priced less. Overall, I'm happy. The SB 3-20 is an optical failure IMO and was disappointing to when compared to Premeir, Kahles, and even Steiner. The SB 5-25 is far superior in clarity to the 3-20.

You're starting to split hairs with these scopes as they're all the top end of optical performers. It's like you're asking about the differences between Ferrari and Lamborghini with an AMG thrown in. All nice, all expensive, and all will outperform your neighbors Saturn. Good luck!
 
Cheers and thanks for the input all!

There is some really good information and opinions in here and though I may not have made my choice yet, I have reduced my short list a little.

The Premier (my favourite going into this) has be taken off the list as it would be no use to me if I can't see the reticle on 5x for close range snap shooting. There doesn't seem to be much love for the S&B 3-20x50 so that will go too, unless I can easily get to have a look at one. So that leaves me with the March and the Kahles with March as the favourite. I will see if the UK dealer will let me go and have a look at one.

Someone mentioned that the Kahles was getting a new reticle choice and different lens coatings, anyone have any more information on this?

Cheers

JWEM
 
I'm really liking my March 3-24 and I am ready to purchase my 2nd.
 
JWEM said:
The Premier (my favourite going into this) has be taken off the list as it would be no use to me if I can't see the reticle on 5x for close range snap shooting.
Click to expand...

The reticle is thin at 5x but I can still use it as a simple duplex reticle for close shooting quite well. I can also still make out the hash marks for holds if I really needed to.
 
vinsonr said:
The reticle is thin at 5x but I can still use it as a simple duplex reticle for close shooting quite well. I can also still make out the hash marks for holds if I really needed to.
Click to expand...

This... yes it's thin, but can easily be used as a duplex.
 
March 3-24x42 showed up this morning.

The focus on this scope is awesome. There is only one “spot” in the rotation where a distant object is in focus, and when it is, the parallax is dead on! I’ve never owned a scope where I have not had to focus it (which was more of a range in the rotation than a single location) then check the parallax. Even the S&B PMII I had for a few months did not focus perfectly in sync with its parallax. Marvelous. Then there’s the 10 yard focus; I have a bore-sighting chart setup in my living room (my wife doesn’t even make me take it down, what a gal!) with 2 dots each 3/8” diameter, one 2-1/4” directly above the other. It has been my experience with a bunch of different rifles (ARs, bolt guns, other gas guns) that if I place the laser bore sight dot on the bottom dot and zero the reticle on the top dot, I am within 3” at 100 yards, first shot. With every other magnified scope, there is so much parallax error at that short a distance that I have to “average” the location of the (fuzzy) laser dot by moving my head around to the limits of the eye box.

With the March, the dot is sharp as a razor with zero parallax on my “sight in chart”.

Brilliant!

How’d they do that? SuB, Premier, Hensoldt, USO, take notice.

I don't find the eyebox to be a problem, either, maybe a little fussy at 24x but with a proper cheek weld it doesn't seem to be an issue.
The illumination is well done, bright, even, no bleed.

Joe
 
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Once more.
By Problem I highlighted myself to a few models MARCH tac.:
1-10x SFP
1-8x FFP
3-24x FFP new reticle 1/4 MOA FMA-1 or 1/8 MOA FMA-2
5-40x FFP new reticle 1/4 MOA FMA-1 or 1/8 MOA FMA-2
8-80x SFP
I have not tried it yet Hensoldt 3.5-26x.
But I believe MARCH # 1.


scudzuki said:
March 3-24x42 showed up this morning.

The focus on this scope is awesome. There is only one “spot” in the rotation where a distant object is in focus, and when it is, the parallax is dead on! I’ve never owned a scope where I have not had to focus it (which was more of a range in the rotation than a single location) then check the parallax. Even the S&B PMII I had for a few months did not focus perfectly in sync with its parallax. Marvelous. Then there’s the 10 yard focus; I have a bore-sighting chart setup in my living room (my wife doesn’t even make me take it down, what a gal!) with 2 dots each 3/8” diameter, one 2-1/4” directly above the other. It has been my experience with a bunch of different rifles (ARs, bolt guns, other gas guns) that if I place the laser bore sight dot on the bottom dot and zero the reticle on the top dot, I am within 3” at 100 yards, first shot. With every other magnified scope, there is so much parallax error at that short a distance that I have to “average” the location of the (fuzzy) laser dot by moving my head around to the limits of the eye box.

With the March, the dot is sharp as a razor with zero parallax on my “sight in chart”.

Brilliant!

How’d they do that? SuB, Premier, Hensoldt, USO, take notice.

I don't find the eyebox to be a problem, either, maybe a little fussy at 24x but with a proper cheek weld it doesn't seem to be an issue.
The illumination is well done, bright, even, no bleed.

Joe
Click to expand...
 
Hello All,

The K624i has been updated to include higher resolution and overall better image quality. We are also very close to releasing the new MSRII within the K624i line as well as offering the standard MSR in our K312II. The new MSRII has a relieved subtention as well as a free floating dot in the center of the reticle. This small dot is not noticeable below 17X but above 17X it offers a fine dot precision aiming point that will not obscure your target. The GenII K624i should be available from your dealer within the next 30-45 days, with the MSR2 coming very shortly after.

CMH,

Kahles is a sister company to Swarovski, where as Swarovski does not produce a pure tactical scope, Kahles has re-enter the American market with a strong tactical line.

Regards, and please feel free to contact me if you have any questions,
Ken

P.S. As soon as the new optics land, I will be posting up photos and information.
 
Khaybes Optics said:
Hello All,

The K624i has been updated to include higher resolution and overall better image quality. We are also very close to releasing the new MSRII within the K624i line as well as offering the standard MSR in our K312II. The new MSRII has a relieved subtention as well as a free floating dot in the center of the reticle. This small dot is not noticeable below 17X but above 17X it offers a fine dot precision aiming point that will not obscure your target. The GenII K624i should be available from your dealer within the next 30-45 days, with the MSR2 coming very shortly after.

CMH,

Kahles is a sister company to Swarovski, where as Swarovski does not produce a pure tactical scope, Kahles has re-enter the American market with a strong tactical line.

Regards, and please feel free to contact me if you have any questions,
Ken

P.S. As soon as the new optics land, I will be posting up photos and information.
Click to expand...

Ken, it was good to meet you at the Hide Cup this weekend. Is there a drawing out there anywhere for the MSRII reticle? Other than the floating dot, which is cool, what do you mean by "relieved subtention"?
 
JLR said:
Ken, it was good to meet you at the Hide Cup this weekend. Is there a drawing out there anywhere for the MSRII reticle? Other than the floating dot, which is cool, what do you mean by "relieved subtention"?
Click to expand...

+1

I am really interested in this optic for my 7.62 OBR. The rifle has a crazy long wait so I am looking for the optic in the meantime.
 
What I meant by the subtention was, we made the reticle slightly smaller in width so that when shooting LR, you would not obscure your intended target. the center dot, is free floating and can only be seen above 17X.

here is a spec sheet
9a7rqu.png


Don't have one on the MSRII yet with the dot, but this will give you an idea about the dimensions.

Regards,
Ken
 
Last edited:
JWEM said:
I looked very hard at the S&B 5-25x56 as its the standard that most others are compared to and a few of the other shooters in my club use them. They are nice but I didn't like the tunnelling you get at low power, you basically have a 7.5-25x56. See graph.

MrSwede, I like the look of the Kahles but in some reviews they said that chromatic aberration was present at higher magnifications and that image resolution was not quite as good as other top brand scopes. Would you agree with this or would you say this is not the case?

Goin'Hot, yeah that is a lot of requirements and I understand that I will have to make compromises, just trying to make the best compromise. If you where to pick between your March and Premier which would it be and why? What reticles do you have and how do you find them at each end of the magnification range.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Where did you get that chart from?
 
There will be a small royalty with the MSR reticle as it is the intellectual property of Finn Accuracy. Even with the royalty, the optic should still be less than our competition with the MSR.

More to come shortly,
Ken
 
Freedom,

I made the chart in MS Excel using the manufacturers data for min and max magnification and using the rule that if you half the magnification you double the field of view. You can also use this data to see if the scope has any tunnelling at low magnification. I have a graph with a lot more scopes on but it is hard to read. Obviously the graph is dependent on the manufacturer giving good data.

See this post: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/187152-comparing-field-view.html
 
Khaybes Optics said:
Hello All,

The K624i has been updated to include higher resolution and overall better image quality. We are also very close to releasing the new MSRII within the K624i line as well as offering the standard MSR in our K312II. The new MSRII has a relieved subtention as well as a free floating dot in the center of the reticle. This small dot is not noticeable below 17X but above 17X it offers a fine dot precision aiming point that will not obscure your target. The GenII K624i should be available from your dealer within the next 30-45 days, with the MSR2 coming very shortly after.

CMH,

Kahles is a sister company to Swarovski, where as Swarovski does not produce a pure tactical scope, Kahles has re-enter the American market with a strong tactical line.

Regards, and please feel free to contact me if you have any questions,
Ken

P.S. As soon as the new optics land, I will be posting up photos and information.
Click to expand...


Hi Ken, as I understand it, the AMR reticle that is being designed in conjunction with Desert Tactical Arms is still a few months away?
 
Hello Kwilson,

I don't have a timeline I can share right now but, we will be sending out some small quantities very,very, soon. Stay in touch with DTA for the best updates as they will be receiving the first batches and if you would like to get one of the first to come in, be sure to contact DTA. Great reticle and for Advanced Long Range, a tough system to beat.

Regards,
Ken
 
I'd love to see 6x and 24x through the scope shots of the new reticle. Almost sure I will be getting the 642i for my OBR 7.62
 
I've had a 3-20 S&B, a PH 5-25, and a 624i. I still have the 624i and I really like it. It seems to be the right balance between the massive size of the PH and the smaller March and NF scopes. Although I would like a reticle in the Kahles a little more like an H2CMR - something with finer .1 or .2 mil hash marks for slight wind holds. Also, under the conditions these scopes are used I've never heard anyone say, "Wow! The chromatic aberration present at higher magnifications in this Kahles isn't quite as good as my PH." These small percentage differences are argued over by guys in lab coats - and they should argue over by them - that's the place to do it. In the field you just want it to "work." The Kahles does that so it gets my vote.

Ken - Any chance of a loyal Kahles customer trade-up program for the new and improved 624i's!?
 
Another +1 for March. I've had a 2.5-25 x42 on My DTA for two years. Super compact (class leader) and no real compromises.
 
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