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Gunsmithing PTG? Anyone know what's going on there?

MarinePMI

MarinePMI

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Minuteman
    • Jun 3, 2010
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    San Diego, Ca
    Not trying to bash PTG here, just curious if anyone knows what's going on there?

    I've ordered stuff from them in the past; no problems, good service.

    In April I ordered some bottom metal from them and it's like they've gone dark target or something (was quoted 4-6 wks). I've called multiple times and get the "That person doesn't work here anymore" (Melissa? or Michelle?) and the "We'll call you back tomorrow after we talk to the guys and let you know when it'll ship". The people are nice, courteous and polite...but I still never get a call back or an answer.

    I don't mind the wait so much, I'd just like to know (honestly) what the wait will be.

    I'm beginning to think they lost the order, and are delaying until they can figure out the screw up. If it was lost, than just say so (I understand shit happens); don't say you'll call back with an answer (and take my number down) and then never call.

    Has PTG just taken on too much work from industry? They seem to be growing in leaps and bounds, but this is not how I recall them being in the past.

    Anyone know what's going on? Again, not trying to bash PTG; I'd just like to get an honest answer of what is going on(?). This is not what I feel is normal for them...and actually would feel like we lost a good company if this is what PTG has become. Smh...
     
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    I placed an order with them about a month ago, and was told everything was on back order and it should ship in about two to three weeks. Everything arrived seven days later! No problems here!
     
    I've spoken with them recently, I think they are really very busy. Call and ask for Sheila, I spoke to her and she seems to be helpful and responsive. Took her an extra day, maybe two, but she did get back to me with info I needed.
     
    It happens when you make high quality products. It can be really tough on a company to keep up with supply and demand when everybody worldwide want's your products.
     
    Things seem to have been a huge cluster recently, I had orders shipped not even close to what I ordered and one it took several tries to get the unshipped portion stopped and get the wrong stuff back, it was a complete cluster!! It took three tries to get a 7mm Uni throater which each time I checked one it they went to the shelf and checked it was in stock, a week later no invoice so I'd call and there would be no record of the order, did this three weeks before I got one actually shipped!
    I think there as a house cleaning recently because I got a call from PTG and I have shipping invoices flying in all of the sudden like they should be.

    I won't order another reamer, of the last 5 PTG reamers I've used ONE was ground to the spec on the reamer print, they get taken care of but from here on out I'll just order a few tools a month to slowly build up my tooling or parts well ahead of the time there needed and go another reamer source.

    One thing that would help is if they went to using part numbers instead using the name to order, much less chances of getting on the wrong page!!
     
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    I've had problems.

    Overdue reamers
    Overdue bolts and out of spec bolts when delivered.
    Poor communication

    I got my stuff, eventually, but i'm not real happy with the Customer Service is all.
     
    Like I said in my first post, I'm not bashing on PTG, just kind of hoping that this is just a growing pain/speed bump that they'll over come as things settle down.
     
    They have f'd up a lot of stuff the past 3 months just between me and a couple others I know. Just this week I wanted to order a 223 reamer for myself and decided to try someone else other than PTG. Told them I wanted something similar to the PTG Rem Match Reamer with .252 neck and .088FB. They said sure we can do that, it will be $200 and 3-4 month wait. They sent a sample print to me with my specs and they had written in .075 fb on the print-not the .088 I requested. I tucked my tail and reluctantly went back to PTG. Will see if they can get it right I guess.
     
    I was told by them that they have been in the process of moving to a new location in an effort to expand. I too went through a longer than normal wait on a bolt body. I'm sure it's not a fast nor easy thing to move that size business with machinery to a new location. Maybe after all is settled they will be back on track on delivery times, and have more things in stock to minimize backorders. Time will tell. Dave is a member here, and maybe he could give a better explanation of what's cooking there. I honestly like them, and have been a customer since the beginning of my fever with gun building madness.
     
    Sounds like maybe they are having some growing pains. I have been very pleased with everything I have gotten from them. It seems with every company, particularly when they make a good, in demand product, there comes a time to either grow or limit your market to what you can supply. Just like the popular gunsmiths have longer waits due to demand, I think PTG is just dealing with the same things.
     
    PT&G makes good stuff, but their order processing and fulfillment leave something to be desired..... I've spoken directly with Dave on this subject but felt like he didn't believe this was really an issue. I still order from them and the girls are patient and hard working, but his order processing, reporting, and tracking processes are hit or miss.
     
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    I had similar experiences, hate to say it but it was really the luck of the draw based whom I spoke too. Sometimes I would hear back, other times I wouldn't. It was frustrating, but my product came in and was in spec. Settle in, you're in for a bit of a wait.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    I have had similar results, they have a lot of new people there and they are not very knowledgeable and dont return phone calls. I do believe Dave has his hands full, he did expand and moved some of his equipment to a building right next door. He's trying to cut lead time down on bolts and other products and as everyone has seen his customer service and quality control has suffered at times. Im sure PTG will come back around but it will take some time for the new people to get with the program. Im sure Dave is well aware of all this, hopefully things will get better with time.

    Casey
     
    I called about a reamer on Monday. She said she would check to see what was in stock and get back to me. Havn't heard anything yet.
     
    I now only buy ptg products from brownells grizzly or midway if I need something they don't have I call JGS. they are straight about wait times and even the girls answering the phone know what is going on and what you are talking about.
     
    Just finished a 338 Lapua chamber with a new PTG reamer. This is one of the nicest cutting reamers I have gotten lately. It cut evenly on all the flutes, no sticking when finishing up in the body area either. It cut when advanced with no stacking on the pusher. Had trouble last year with a couple reamers not cutting in the body area, they were reground and returned very quickly with prepaid shipping. Dale
     
    I just got a PTG order shipped in and so far the reamer is right, and the extra pilots ordered MIC out perfect-o and all has been well. Last itme I ordered a pilot a couple months ago it took a week or so longer than expected but I got it and all was well. I have had good luck with everything I have gotten starting at SHOT 07.

    Now that I have stated this my luck will go down the toilet........
     
    Nashlaw,

    Glad to hear you got your stuff heading your way. E-mailed them last night and called this morning. Was told by the gentleman on the phone they would get back with me whether they had an answer or not, after I commented about calling three times previously and not getting a response back. I was very courteous about it, and the gentleman assured me they would get back with me today...nope.

    Not sure what to do at this point. Just kind of sucks having to deal with the silence; reminds me of some passive aggressive folks I've had to deal with before...
     
    New guy here, tried to order savage bottom metal and a couple of mags online, shopping cart didn't work so I sent them an email. No response for over a week so I will be going CDI I guess.
     
    Actually, they do make some good reamers. They also make some really good products at a good price; there's no denying that. They also make some products that you can't get somewhere else.

    That being said, a wait is understandable; especially considering their growth. Lack of communications though...I'm not so sure.

    What I haven't been able to ascertain as of yet is exactly what that wait is (or more accurately, someone to tell me what that wait is). If I need to go with another vendor, fine. Tell me you can't deliver until "x" and let me decide if I want to wait longer than I was originally told or go with a different, less desirable solution.

    Without that communication, I run the risk of not being able to cancel the PTG order, ordering a different, less desirable solution, and being billed for both because I can't get an answer to when they will be available so I can decide if I want to cancel the order.

    I believe we already had one member here get charged a "restocking fee" for cancelling an order that wasn't even made yet. If fact, IIRC, Dave had to get involved to square it away. I don't want to go down that path (cancelling or getting erroneously billed) if I don't have to, but I need an answer before I can decide on a COA...
     
    Add me to the list of former customers. The past several orders have been wrong, but finally got straightened out. Not worth it.
     
    I talked with someone over there a few weeks ago when inquiring about my bolt delivery date. It was on time, but I was just checking in to see if everything was going ok. Anyhow, he said things were kind of crazy at the moment and it wasn't about work load. It had something to do with staying organized. I'm guessing there is some drama over there, but it's complete speculation.
     
    MarinePMI, I am going to give them a call Tuesday just to see what is up. I have a pantload of their BDL bottom metal and DBM and it is the nuts for value- quality and prices can't be beat. George Gardner specs the BDL from PTG on at least one of his custom rifles. Matter of fact, I called GAP about the neck diameter on their 6-250 reamer and was told to call PTG for the spec. So George uses at least one of their reamers. Hate to se a company take a dive like this. Couple years ago, i spoke directly to Dave K and he was a pleasure.
     
    nashlaw,

    No worries (don't call on my account). I got home to a call/message this evening (from Jimmy), stating they didn't have an idea of the time,but that the particular bottom metal I ordered was still in "prototype" phase. I'm okay with that (sort of), it's an answer of sorts. Nobody's dead or injured; this is not a problem, just an issue.

    They make good products, and appear to be trying, but struggling. While circumstances have changed since I ordered (what was a "it'll come when it comes" became a "I hope I get this in time to allow me to get a build together for my daughter so when she's here for the summer, we can spend some time on the range with her having her own finished rig). It is what it is..."If if's and but's were cherries and nuts , every day'd be Christmas..."

    I get the feeling PTG is supplying a LOT more companies than most think. I've dealt with other companies that are major suppliers for the industry, so I get it (demand spikes, staff has to grow, work place culture shifts).

    I'm good for now. Just glad I got an acknowledgement, and I'll figure something out...my daughter is pretty understanding (I think she just likes being out, banging steel with Dad more than whether her rig has detachable bottom metal or not)... she likes trying to read the wind... :)

    As an aside, I spoke with Dave many years ago as well (doubt he'd remember me) at SHOT 2008 or 2009. Nice fellow. Non-BS'er, but polite about it. I just chatted about some reamers' availability (like 9 million other folks at SHOT that probably came by), and was treated cordially and professionally. Hence my reluctance to turn this into a PTG bash; more of a "what happened?". It seems they're trying....
     
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    Their stuff is great but yeah the CS has a bit of work to get up to speed lately. I have ordered two items a bottom metal and blot head that they said they had in stock, so I shipped a rifle to Kevin at stockade, and another to SSS as I got an early slot. One item shipped to me instead of Kevin, one has yet to ship. I ordered from them in the past without issue, perhaps its just a growing phase.
     
    I ordered a one piece bolt, firing pin, shroud and extractor kit on 04/29. Everything but the bolt shipped within a week or so. This morning I received my invoice and shipping info showing my bolt is on it's way to Marc at Spartan. So it was right at the expected delivery time they quoted when I ordered.
     
    I ordered a reamer in February. It was a non standard reamer. I received it yesterday. I can scribble out a drawing, any dimension I want, on a piece of paper and send it to them and they will make a reamer to match it. Not a box full of them but "one" lousy reamer. I feel fortunate that they will even accept orders like I place. I wish you guys would quit bellyaching so they won't decide to stop taking orders from guys like me.
     
    Edds said:
    I wish you guys would quit bellyaching so they won't decide to stop taking orders from guys like me.
    Click to expand...

    Yeah, the rest of us will be completely satisfied with PTG screwing up our stuff JUST so guys like you can get your reamer. Sure thing.
     
    I hope they are monitoring the Hide, maybe they do what the promised over 40 days ago.

    Here is a little backstory.

    I ordered a Bottom metal for a savage long action back in 2013. After many phone calls got the parts and magazines in May 2014.

    Product looked great till we tried to install it, had some problems the part didn't fit. Had to modify the part so it would enable my Accutrigger to function. Basically the gun fed perfectly from the magazine, but part of the metal trigger guard blocked the trigger assembly, and you couldn't get the trigger to pull. We modified it for function and got the trigger working.

    I fully expected to have to inlet a stock to make the bottom metal fit, and the bolt to pick up the rounds. I never excepted to have to start cutting into the bottom metal and reshaping it to allow the trigger to pull.

    I e-mailed them a couple of times regarding the needed modifications, seven days later they got back to me.

    I e-mailed them details and a sketch, they offered me some compensation for the problem, and the time it took us to fix a new part.

    On May 31st they offered me some merchandise to cover my time. and would send me tracking number by June 2.

    At this point I was happy with the way they handled the problem.

    It's July 15th now and I have yet to receive a tracking number or the merchandise promised me.

    I have sent them 4 or 5 e-mails, since June 13th and two phone calls. One just a few minutes ago.

    I have yet to here a response, to any e-mails or phone calls.

    If they are having growing pains, then they better hope they don't give all their customers this much trouble or they won't have any customers left.
     
    Not sure what to say anymore. I've had two calls now since I posted this thread. One that was a response to one of the messages I had left, the other to get info to clarify my order(?). Turns out, Savage has different inletting patterns for wood and composite stocks, so they needed to confirm that I had a composite stock and that they would be a few weeks out from that run (late July shipment).

    Now, here's the interesting thing. When I ordered the bottom metal, the woman (who no longer works there) asked specifically for the Model and type (a Model 10 Patrol Carbine in .308). Either she didn't write it down correctly, or there has been (I believe) a huge mess made by some there in taking and filling orders. With so many employees "no longer employed" there, I wonder if some of the departing individuals left some disasters in their exodus. It would seem plausible to me that this could explain the huge screw ups that have been occurring. Not saying this is based on anything, just an idle theory that give PTG and Dave Kiff the benefit of the doubt...

    Either way, they are trying to sort stuff out. That's just a mighty big hole IMHO they're trying to dig out of...

    I'm off to Montana soon, so (hopefully) when I get back, I'll have some happy news...or not. :)
     
    paul90 said:
    I hope they are monitoring the Hide, maybe they do what the promised over 40 days ago.

    Here is a little backstory.

    I ordered a Bottom metal for a savage long action back in 2013. After many phone calls got the parts and magazines in May 2014.

    Product looked great till we tried to install it, had some problems the part didn't fit. Had to modify the part so it would enable my Accutrigger to function. Basically the gun fed perfectly from the magazine, but part of the metal trigger guard blocked the trigger assembly, and you couldn't get the trigger to pull. We modified it for function and got the trigger working.

    I fully expected to have to inlet a stock to make the bottom metal fit, and the bolt to pick up the rounds. I never expected to have to start cutting into the bottom metal and reshaping it to allow the trigger to pull.
    Click to expand...

    To be fair, some 700s have that same issue with certain trigger/DBM combinations.
     
    PTG? Anyone know what's going on there?

    LongRifles said:
    To be even more fair Savage has a nasty habit of changing stuff on the fly (often!) and it can be a real bitch to keep up with it.
    Click to expand...

    Owning a number of Savages, I'm acutely aware of that fact.

    My point was that trigger/DBM issues are not unique to either Savage actions or PTG metal...
     
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    To the best of my knowledge Savage long action action size spacing has never changed. They have had the accutrigger since 2003, certainly predating PTG's bottom metal. With the exception of Savage Axis, and Stevens all Savages have the Accutrigger. The part should have fit.

    Here is what I sent their machinist on what had to be changed on their bottom metal for it to work in a Savage 116 Alaskan Brush Hunter with Top bolt release in 338 win mag. It is still currently in production.

    Here is what needed to be changed on the bottom metal for it too function

    with a long action savage with the accutrigger.

    The problem with the bottom metal was the trigger guard slot for the trigger
    was too small for the trigger to pass through out beyond the stock, the
    trigger guard slot had to be extended forward about 3/4 of an inch. The
    trigger guard top to bottom was too deep it interfered with the
    accu-trigger portion of the trigger. We had to remove a triangular portion
    starting a 1/8th back from the rear of the middle bolt hole we cut straight
    down 1/4 inch, starting at the middle of the trigger guard we started at 0
    and cut forward to intercept the the 1/4 inch vertical cut., resulting in a
    wedge shape being removed. While this did not significantly weaken your
    system and it was hidden in the incetting of the stock. It was needed in
    order to give clearance for the trigger system to work.

    Final modification for this particular gun, the front bolt is too long and
    interferes with the locking lugs of the bolt, and the bolt is cased hardened
    and would need to be ground shorter, instead we used a spacer underneath the
    head of the bolt. You could accomplish the same thing but not recessing the
    front hole as deep by 1/8th of an inch.

    I sent a sketch to him too, but I don't know how to attach it this thread.

    I didn't drag my heels on sending this description, I sent them the description of the changes and a sketch the same day PTG made contact with me.

    I was hoping if it was a design flaw, they could correct the problem and save others the trouble of modifying parts.

    I have waited to post any comments on there products and services till recently.

    I have become quite irritated with a company that promises to remedy a situation, and then doesn't follow through.
     
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    I order from PTG regularly and have zero problem with waiting for one-of-a-kind reamers and tools. I have had a few problems over the years but usually they were just as much my fault as theirs. Like, the last time I moved I didn't remember to tell them my new shipping address...well wouldn't you know that's when my 6.5 Creedmore reamer was mailed. It all turned out OK in the end but it was a goat screw for a day or two. One thing I never did was get upset at the office staff over it.

    As for fitting the bottom metal; when I see "drop in" I read "not quite as much fitting."
     
    I think when I wait 40 days for a e-mail, or compensation, after they agreed to it I have reason to be upset.

    I was pretty upbeat and positive about the matter up to about 25 days. I just blamed the delay on shipping issues or a lost e-mail.

    If the bottom metal was supposed to be altered to fit the rifle, then why did they offer compensation? They could have told me alteration was to be expected.

    Why did they want to know what needed to be changed in detail?

    If every case was unique and every bottom metal had to be custom fitted to get a rifle to function, why would they bother to ask for details?


    Bottom line, they offered compensation, I just want them to follow through, and at least respond to e-mails or phone calls.
     
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    LongRifles said:
    To be even more fair Savage has a nasty habit of changing stuff on the fly (often!) and it can be a real bitch to keep up with it. The DBM bought may very well have been based off of an obsolete variant.
    Click to expand...
    Savage is like the weather. If you don't like it or do like it right now............its gonna change. God help anyone keeping track of action screw spacing, or round front flat back or round front round back action tops, :) Its a true giggle
     
    Ptg problems

    xringaccuracy said:
    Savage is like the weather. If you don't like it or do like it right now............its gonna change. God help anyone keeping track of action screw spacing, or round front flat back or round front round back action tops, :) Its a true giggle
    Click to expand...


    I don't know why they would base their brand new bottom metal on a old design. The long action spacing has remained constant for years, the accutrigger has been on their rifles since 2003.

    PTG got every detail from me on the make of the rifle, the model, the action spacing, the calibre, the location of the bolt release.

    Bottom line the part didn't work, as shipped.

    So either they shipped the wrong part, or they cut the part wrong.

    I think when a new part disables the rifle, makes it unable to fire, then something is wrong with the part.

    After modifying the part, the trigger worked fine, and the gun feed from the magazine without issue.

    They asked for the details of the needed modifications, so they wanted to know what was wrong with the part.

    I just hope they get back to me and send what they promised.

    This has been the most frustrating experience I ever have had with a company.
     
    Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here, they recently screwed up two of my orders, but again they have some quality stuff available to the public, you should try to get your stuff somewhere else if you aint happy.
     
    ArmyJerry said:
    Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here, they recently screwed up two of my orders, but again they have some quality stuff available to the public, you should try to get your stuff somewhere else if you aint happy.
    Click to expand...

    It's a nightmare to try get gun parts from the US shipped to Canada. Even more of a nightmare to try and return them from Canada to the US.

    The parts are installed and they work now after we modified them.

    I am not happy because they said they were going to compensate me for the defective part. They sent me a e-mail saying they were shipping it.

    Over 40 days later and they haven't kept their word, or returned any e-mails, or phone calls.
     
    I've had great servcie from PTG. They made me a custom carbide tipped shotgun rim recess reamer, exactly to my specs and beautifully made. Yes, I waited a bit but well worth the wait and level of workmanship and precision far exceeds price.
    Couple weeks ago sent Sheila an email asking for a 6.5 SLR reamer with throat ground for 139gr Scenars at 2.810 OAL, 0.004" off lands. Got reply the other day to say was in the queue to be made. Couldn't be happier. Sure, she didn't reply the same day but it's till getting made, some things are worth waiting for...
    I will continue to support them and sing their praises.
     
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