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Member Link Up Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

creids98292 said:
I talked to the USFS and the word was a couple chelan co. Deputies ground the post and were concerened about the shoot and entry fees. From there they took it to the entiat USFS office where they all had a meeting to discus the shoot. After which the director called me, after 2 decent conversations all parties were happy ( thee USFS and I). After which a lesser employee took it on him self to close the area without orders to do so by his super.
All this info was verified by me from USFS entiat office.
Chris
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So are you going to contact the head office for the USFS about their employees taking it upon themselves to amend the law which allows for shooting and matches on USFS land which is government owned? Or would you like me to do it, lol? I feel for you Chris. That's a big headache and frankly they don't have the legal right. Also, Chelan County Sheriff doesn't have jurisdiction on Federal Property either, so I'm a little curious as to what the Sheriff himself has to say about them exercising authority outside of the scope of their authority? Marty please correct me if I'm wrong about any of that since I'm obviously not LEO and my perception of the laws and authorities may not be correct in this matter...
 
FedCop said:
Going to order up a B&C medalist with a CDI bottom, anyone know anyone who can do a good job inletting the bottom metal for me? thanks for the help guys i just dont wanna be the only guy trying to load an internal box mag against the clock again at the next shoot. it takes me almost 120 seconds to get all 5 rounds in the gun let alone shoot :) hahaha
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Northwest Armswerkes - South Hill Puyallup.
 
_Nick_ said:
So are you going to contact the head office for the USFS about their employees taking it upon themselves to amend the law which allows for shooting and matches on USFS land which is government owned? Or would you like me to do it, lol? I feel for you Chris. That's a big headache and frankly they don't have the legal right. Also, Chelan County Sheriff doesn't have jurisdiction on Federal Property either, so I'm a little curious as to what the Sheriff himself has to say about them exercising authority outside of the scope of their authority? Marty please correct me if I'm wrong about any of that since I'm obviously not LEO and my perception of the laws and authorities may not be correct in this matter...
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Unfortunately some USFS lands maybe concurrent jurisdiction. This means that the Sheriff dept may have some authority on the property/land. In my opinion the best approach will be through discussion about the monies (reasons for it) as well as informing them about the matches. Still dumb in my opinion, someones playing politics and has no spine....dumb
 
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I had a buddy with wa usfs up until about 2 months ago, he took another job out of state, sucks cause I could have just gave him a ring and see what the deal is.
 
No harm to Mr Whitehall, but really did he have to go there. To tell Chris that it was the big bad Chelan County Sheriifs Office that was perusing the web and stumbled across the Hide and found out that there was going to be a "sniper match" up Crum Canyon and they had concerns and the fact that there was an entry fee as well, low and behold, wow a sniper match with an entry fee, that must be serious business. And a local tells Tibor that a sniper club was going to have a match and the sheriff closed the road. Well no fucking harm to anyone, but I smell a fucking rat, and if it was a couple of deputies from the Chelan County Sheriffs department I would be really fucking surprised. Quite honestly someone has a fucking grudge and made a call, that plain and simple, I wasn't party to the conversations Chris had with them but some of the language used "sniper" from someone that supposedly a deputy and that's the terminology they are using, all I can say is really. What better way to cover your arse, but to say the local LEO's told you. Then there's the kicker, after telling Chris all is okay, an underling goes ahead and closes the road down anyways, really they just went ahead and closed it down all by themselves. Gentlemen, been around enough bullshit in my time, you would need a life vest if you were going to wade through some of this.
 
On a lighter note, I had a wonderful time shooting Saturday, with a great bunch of folks and a few new ones. Lots of high winds and long range targets to shoot at, very challenging, but a excellent learning experience. Eric, what stock do you have anyways that really big piece broke off? Nick glad to hear you are gainfully employed again, if I ever get a weekend off and am able to get back down for one of UNSC shoots I got a spare 260 you can take for a whirl. Looking forward to seeing some of you out at Scotts match in a few weeks.
Marty
 
If USFS asked the Sheriff's dept to assist, that would give them jurisdiction...just like when a citizen asks the Sheriff's dept to search their land for something.

I can sorta understand how themSheriff's dept got the sniper match misunderstanding. After all, much of the coordination for the match happened on SNIPER'S hide...not the Washington precision field shooters site.

Perhaps we ned to do something like the pistol shooters did. Back in the early 1970,s, it was called "combat shooting", but political correctness being what it is, the organization changed to IPSC/USPSA.

Maybe if we called our groups (both eastern and western groups) something similar such as Washingtin State precision field
shooters we could get people to stop thinking of us as holding sniper matches.

It would also help if we showed some of the LE groups that we are actually just guys who enjoy shooting at distance, that we aren't some goofy para military/militia group. I would volunteer to help put on something to educate law enforcement toward that end.

Some basic public relations and education might go a long way toward avoiding similar problems in the future.
 
mjh30 said:
No harm to Mr Whitehall, but really did he have to go there. To tell Chris that it was the big bad Chelan County Sheriifs Office that was perusing the web and stumbled across the Hide and found out that there was going to be a "sniper match" up Crum Canyon and they had concerns and the fact that there was an entry fee as well, low and behold, wow a sniper match with an entry fee, that must be serious business. And a local tells Tibor that a sniper club was going to have a match and the sheriff closed the road. Well no fucking harm to anyone, but I smell a fucking rat, and if it was a couple of deputies from the Chelan County Sheriffs department I would be really fucking surprised. Quite honestly someone has a fucking grudge and made a call, that plain and simple, I wasn't party to the conversations Chris had with them but some of the language used "sniper" from someone that supposedly a deputy and that's the terminology they are using, all I can say is really. What better way to cover your arse, but to say the local LEO's told you. Then there's the kicker, after telling Chris all is okay, an underling goes ahead and closes the road down anyways, really they just went ahead and closed it down all by themselves. Gentlemen, been around enough bullshit in my time, you would need a life vest if you were going to wade through some of this.
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Marty are you sure we're not related somehow? Lol...
 
FedCop said:
Unfortunately some USFS lands maybe concurrent jurisdiction. This means that the Sheriff dept may have some authority on the property/land. In my opinion the best approach will be through discussion about the monies (reasons for it) as well as informing them about the matches. Still dumb in my opinion, someones playing politics and has no spine....dumb
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That's good info and I'm glad I asked. I'm going to disagree about the politics somewhat only because trying to play that game never works in the end anymore IMO. It's been my experience that to get real results you often have to pick the legal fight and point out the specific laws that govern them and remind their superiors. If we're gonna play politics then I would skip the crap with the USFS and go straight to one of the local Congressman over there since at least on that side of the Mountains they're more likely to have one that's more conservative and empathetic to our sport.
 
Unknown said:
Maybe if we called our groups (both eastern and western groups) something similar such as Washingtin State precision field
shooters we could get people to stop thinking of us as holding sniper matches.
Click to expand...

This is something that I wish would manifest itself. There's enough of us all in the same circle both on this side and across the State that we could create a formalized organization and it would lend us numerous advantages...
 
_Nick_ said:
That's good info and I'm glad I asked. I'm going to disagree about the politics somewhat only because trying to play that game never works in the end anymore IMO. It's been my experience that to get real results you often have to pick the legal fight and point out the specific laws that govern them and remind their superiors. If we're gonna play politics then I would skip the crap with the USFS and go straight to one of the local Congressman over there since at least on that side of the Mountains they're more likely to have one that's more conservative and empathetic to our sport
I agree, I was not referring to Hide members.... Just the facts lol
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Here is another consideration that dovetails into my previous posting...

Anti gun groups have already gone after "assault rifles", and will continue going after other firearms as soon as they can think of a way to vilify them. perhaps it would benefit all of us to get greater acceptance of the "precision rifle" designation for a great many firearms in addition to the ones we use. If we could get bench rest, F class, Palma, 1000 yard shooters, and all the other types of precision shooters to begin calling their rifles "precision rifles", rather than having the various categories separated out and thereby have some end up as the dreaded "sniper rifles" to be vilified by the media, we could avoid some problems later on.
 
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Unknown said:
Here is another consideration that dovetails into my previous posting...

Anti gun groups have already gone after "assault rifles", and will continue going after other firearms as soon as they can think of a way to vilify them. perhaps it would benefit all of us to get greater acceptance of the "precision rifle" designation for a great many firearms in addition to the ones we use. If we could get bench rest, F class, Palma, 1000 yard shooters, and all the other types of precision shooters to begin calling their rifles "precision rifles", rather than having the various categories separated out and thereby have some end up as the dreaded "sniper rifles" to be vilified by the media, we could avoid some problems later on.
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It will never happen. You're talking about trying to classify all rifles as one designation which takes away from what the sport is... diversified. And the fact is many are proud of the specific category/style of shooting they compete in and as such do not want to be lumped with others...
 
Any of you local guys, I still have a rifle for sale, a sweet shooting 308, pm me.....tons of ammo to go with it for local pick up...will throow in a leica 1200lrf as well.
 
mjh30 said:
No harm to Mr Whitehall, but really did he have to go there. To tell Chris that it was the big bad Chelan County Sheriifs Office that was perusing the web and stumbled across the Hide and found out that there was going to be a "sniper match" up Crum Canyon and they had concerns and the fact that there was an entry fee as well, low and behold, wow a sniper match with an entry fee, that must be serious business. And a local tells Tibor that a sniper club was going to have a match and the sheriff closed the road. Well no fucking harm to anyone, but I smell a fucking rat, and if it was a couple of deputies from the Chelan County Sheriffs department I would be really fucking surprised. Quite honestly someone has a fucking grudge and made a call, that plain and simple, I wasn't party to the conversations Chris had with them but some of the language used "sniper" from someone that supposedly a deputy and that's the terminology they are using, all I can say is really. What better way to cover your arse, but to say the local LEO's told you. Then there's the kicker, after telling Chris all is okay, an underling goes ahead and closes the road down anyways, really they just went ahead and closed it down all by themselves. Gentlemen, been around enough bullshit in my time, you would need a life vest if you were going to wade through some of this.
Click to expand...

I agree with Marty. Either a lib Chelan Co. sheriff has been monitoring the hide, waiting for this opportunity to screw with us, or someone in the USFS has. I find it very hard to believe this was some sort of "misunderstanding". I always figured that the hide was being data mined by the fed's, & anti's, but I never really thought a local area agency, or activist would be. Time to wake up.
 
_Nick_ said:
It will never happen. You're talking about trying to classify all rifles as one designation which takes away from what the sport is... diversified. And the fact is many are proud of the specific category/style of shooting they compete in and as such do not want to be lumped with others...
Click to expand...

I agree that many groups have lots of (justified) pride in their individual sport. However I hunk we would be wise to somehow try and get ahead of the "sniper rifle" vilification by whatever means we can. If that means that groups such as those in the hide, or the long range hunting site wish to separate their gear somehow, I don't have any objection to that.

Waiting until the media begins demonizing long range shooting rifles as they have done with "assault rifles" when we could be more proactive seems unwise. That was my point...get ahead of the media's attack on the next type of firearms they wish to demonize. IE "sniper rifles" . I can already imagine the arguments against these firearms, and I'm certain most of the members here can too.
 
Unknown said:
I agree that many groups have lots of (justified) pride in their individual sport. However I hunk we would be wise to somehow try and get ahead of the "sniper rifle" vilification by whatever means we can. If that means that groups such as those in the hide, or the long range hunting site wish to separate their gear somehow, I don't have any objection to that.

Waiting until the media begins demonizing long range shooting rifles as they have done with "assault rifles" when we could be more proactive seems unwise. That was my point...get ahead of the media's attack on the next type of firearms they wish to demonize. IE "sniper rifles" . I can already imagine the arguments against these firearms, and I'm certain most of the members here can too.
Click to expand...

The term "sniper" is rarely used in the media and trying to get in front of something based upon one incident is just spinning wheels. It does ZERO good to try and fight something that isn't fighting us yet and only serves to make us look paranoid and draw attention which we don't want. If you can't overcome the current objections in our sport which is an immediate and imminent threat to our rights then is it smart to make a preemptive strike for something else? Politicians are real good at getting people to worry about the future of everything so much that they don't pay attention to the present. First step to winning... don't take the bait.
 
Anyone need Berger 7mm VLDs? I know where there's 2 boxes of 500 count same lot on both...
 
A few states have already banned 50 cal rifles for civilians. Hence I believe that it has already started. Putting our heads in the sand and waiting for more states to go after 50 cal shooters, then whichever firearm is next is of course one way to go.

The recent actions at the Entiat match shows me that some backlash toward our type of precision shooting (in addition to shooting in general) has already started here. I am not truly convinced that the closure at Entiat was completely due to road conditions.

Waiting for other entities to get ahead of shooters in the public relations battle just doesn't seem as wise as being proactive. I think preemptive action before the media puts out more anti long distance shooting pieces is just one of many things that pro gun people can do.

I do not suggest ignoring other ongoing efforts to save second amendment rights. I merely suggest that trying to get ahead of the curve in this additional part of the public relations battle would be helpful. YMMV.
 
A lot of States are going after our 2nd Amendment right in general and you're worried about 50 cals, terminology, and protecting our particular style of shooting? I didn't say put your head in the sand, I said worry about the immediate and imminent. And there has to be a curve to get ahead of. A politician says "I want your guns..." and you're worried about the terminology right now. You also think its about our "type of precision shooting" but the the real issue isn't the type or the language but just shooting in general. Again... Misdirection is the game of politics and your swallowing the hook whole. Fight the small skirmishes but don't let them draw your main force away from the real threat and the key strongholds.
 
I'll check Scott. I don't remember what grain they were unfortunately...
 
I'll pass and stick with my current supply of the 180 VLD Hunting type. I know there probably isn't any distinguishable difference, but I like to keep things the same if possible.
 
Too many people dis like what we do or don't understand and that breeds fear. Not sure what the answer is but I've been trying to set up awareness meeting w LE offices in area we shoot. We will see how far I get before all info falls on def ears.
 
Creids,
That is precisely what I was trying to tell Nick. I guess I am not expressing myself well. In any case, I used to be a law enforcement firearms trainer. If I can help you out, please let me know. You are thinking along the same lines I am.


Nick,
I am worried about any and all threats to 2A rights, and am trying to think ahead about what the next politically incorrect buzzword or phrase will be. I think "sniper rifles" will be on the horizion quite soon, as evidenced by the 50 cal bans in a number of states. I don't think it helps any of us to act as if "That isn't the kind of firearm I use, so I don't care". I think we should be fighting all the attempts to divide and conquer. I also think that anything we can do to stop or blunt an attack on any kind of firearm (sniper rifles, assault rifles, high capacity magazines, 50 caliber rifles) before it gets here is just smart thinking. Any battle, or skirmish I can get ahead of, or gain an advantage on will make my day. If I have to swallow hook, line and sinker in order to gain an advantage, I will gladly do so. If I can preclude an attack on "sniper rifles" by biting, then I'm happy to do so.

Many skirmishes have already been lost because firearms proponents got behind the curve on the public relations front. I would prefer to be proactive than reactive. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
 
Scott. There is no appreciable difference between the hunting, & target Bergers. The target has a slightly thicker jacket is all. According to Brian Litz they will perform exactly the same with the same load.
 
Bigwheels said:
I agree with Marty. Either a lib Chelan Co. sheriff has been monitoring the hide, waiting for this opportunity to screw with us, or someone in the USFS has. I find it very hard to believe this was some sort of "misunderstanding". I always figured that the hide was being data mined by the fed's, & anti's, but I never really thought a local area agency, or activist would be. Time to wake up.
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aww man, I have to change my name now so i can keep my new Hide friends i have made. lol
 
There seems to be Libs popping up all over the place, in fields of expertise you would never think to find them. Most decent jobs require a degree. What better place to start molding young minds into this liberal view of thinking than college. (most college's)

We have a guy i work with that voted.... not like the rest and we give him a bunch of crap turns out he does what his girlfriend tells him too (shes a teacher) Awww man this guy will never live it down. Now my wife is also a teacher and she has similar views as mine so im not by any means grouping teachers. Just saying
 
I think the liberal teacher issue started way, WAY back in the 60's, mqybe ealier. It hasn't changed since. he exception of course would be religious, or other conservative colleges and universities.
 
Yeah. I hear ya. I read through a "history" text book a few yrs ago that my friends son brought home. All I can say is that propaganda doesn't begin to cover the BS I found in that book! I also asked another friends son (about to graduate from HS) what he knew about WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam? He knew they were wars we were involved in before he was born. That was all!!! Then I thought about how much I was taught in school about our history, & realized that I hadn't learned a thing in school of importance. Everything I have learned about history of any importance, I learned myself through diligence, & curiosity, after my school years. Pathetic!!!
This reminds me of another school "project" my friends son was engaged in. He brought home a 2 pg checklist of items, that his teacher told him to look for in his home. "Without" telling his parents. The list included prescription drugs, & firearms. This was supposed to be a secret. Not known to his parents at all, & turned into the school! He brought it home right away, & showed it to us. Even in 4th grade, this kid was smart. The school played dumb on the issue, & swept it under the rug when he went to the principal about it. Is it any wonder that we keep making the same mistakes over, & over, when this crap is what out kids are being taught!
 
its true that our education system is all jacked up and there is little to no emphasis on history (Mt. Baker High School Class of '09 here) If I wanted to learn anything I had to study it myself and want to learn it otherwise it wasn't taught or lied about even to further the specific teachers biases. Another big gripe I had when I was in school not terribly long ago was the sheer lack of reading of any worthwhile texts like Biographies etc. it was all done via movie / tape which has been proven to go literally in one ear and out the other....but a bit off topic on my part. In terms of these sorts of shoots and running into this sort of issue...might it be possible to take precautions against it next time...going through Private message for date + time that way it would be a little more secure.
 
Private messaging might be a solution, but we would be faced with how we vet, or verify who gets included on the message list. Although I would like to have all of us avoid problems like what happened at Entiat, I'm not sure how often I,want to wear the tinfoil hat of paranoia. (Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are NOT after you.). I just don't know where to draw the line.

small shoots could always be invitation only via personal email rather than on public postings. However, it seems that those who wish to know what we are up to,would be able to get a great deal more info via cooperation, and simple interaction with us. I guess that somewhere along the line, they forgot that we support LE, and order within our community...Geez, we are on their side, and many of us are current, or retired LE in any case. If you want info, get to know us, and talk with us...ask us what you want to know.

We really don't have anything to hide because we aren't doing anything illegal. All our gear is far to expensive to risk having it seized over some stupid illegal act.
 
Unknown said:
Private messaging might be a solution, but we would be faced with how we vet, or verify who gets included on the message list. Although I would like to have all of us avoid problems like what happened at Entiat, I'm not sure how often I,want to wear the tinfoil hat of paranoia. (Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are NOT after you.). I just don't know where to draw the line.

small shoots could always be invitation only via personal email rather than on public postings. However, it seems that those who wish to know what we are up to,would be able to get a great deal more info via cooperation, and simple interaction with us. I guess that somewhere along the line, they forgot that we support LE, and order within our community...Geez, we are on their side, and many of us are current, or retired LE in any case. If you want info, get to know us, and talk with us...ask us what you want to know.

We really don't have anything to hide because we aren't doing anything illegal. All our gear is far to expensive to risk having it seized over some stupid illegal act.
Click to expand...

Nail on the head my friend, no reason to be secretive about any activities. Being open and friendly is how new members come out for meet and greets.
 
For those of you who aren't on the Practical rifle mailing list, I just received official word that our matches will continue on the third (3rd) Saturday of each month, beginning with the May 2013 match.

Apparently, much of the Board of Director's decision on whether to renew our option to have matches or not, was based on how the participants behaved at the matches. The feedback I received was that our safety, gun handling, and personal comportment played no small part in the decision. That reflects very well on all of you that participated in the matches and I am very pleased to hear that other people noticed the same things I did.

If anyone wants to get onto the mailing list, send a short email with something like "put me on the list" to [email protected]. That is usually how courses of fire and other relevant announcements are sent out.
 
That's great news Unknown, Just got the email !
Nice to know we still have a great range and place to practice each month, Ryan said it best WooHOOOOO !
 
Unknown said:
For those of you who aren't on the Practical rifle mailing list, I just received official word that our matches will continue on the third (3rd) Saturday of each month, beginning with the May 2013 match.

Apparently, much of the Board of Director's decision on whether to renew our option to have matches or not, was based on how the participants behaved at the matches. The feedback I received was that our safety, gun handling, and personal comportment played no small part in the decision. That reflects very well on all of you that participated in the matches and I am very pleased to hear that other people noticed the same things I did.

If anyone wants to get onto the mailing list, send a short email with something like "put me on the list" to [email protected]. That is usually how courses of fire and other relevant announcements are sent out.
Click to expand...

That is great news! I guess we need to start working on a course of fire for next month!
 
If anyone wants to get onto the mailing list, send a short email with something like "put me on the list" to [email protected]. That is usually how courses of fire and other relevant announcements are sent out.[/QUOTE]

Good news
Email sent...
 
Unknown said:
I wasn't going to start on the course of fore for the next match until I heard whether there would be one or not. I guess I'll get to work.
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lol you can keep the 120 or 180 seconds since I now have a badger ordinance DBM and 10 round mag en route ;)
 
Depending on which magazines your system uses, I may have some mags you can borrow. I have a couple of AI/AW ten rounders, and one AI/AE five rounder. all mags for 308 size cartridges.
 
Unknown said:
Depending on which magazines your system uses, I may have some mags you can borrow. I have a couple of AI/AW ten rounders, and one AI/AE five rounder. all mags for 308 size cartridges.
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That would be great since finding mags right now is impossible and my wife almost beat me for buying it in the first place.
 
If these will fit your rifle I will bring them for you. The 10 round AW mags feed from right and left side, the 5 round AE mag feeds from the center only. I think Defiance machine makes the only action designed to feed from either type.
 
Unknown said:
If these will fit your rifle I will bring them for you. The 10 round AW mags feed from right and left side, the 5 round AE mag feeds from the center only. I think Defiance machine makes the only action designed to feed from either type.
Click to expand...

Thank you sir, either way I appreciate it.
 
Email sent to all those who registered for FSC 2013 next weekend with more details and driving directions. if you registered and didn't get the email please let me know via email or cell

[email protected]
cell 360 632 6482

scott
 
I know several of you have laid claim to some of the gear, but my time is limited so I'm posting the names of those who RSVP'd next to the item. If you want 2nd's on an item let me know as I haven't received any firm commitments on anything yet. I will wait until whoever asked first responds though. I'm not thrilled that I have to sell any of this stuff but I need to pay bills. These are the FTF price only, and by that I mean I need you to meet me here in Bremerton/Silverdale or at the next Match, but I need the money up front this time. Jake I'll make an exception for you on shipping cause we're not likely to meet-up anytime soon.


  1. Forster Ultra 2-Die Set 308 Winchester - $85
  2. Bushnell Fusion 1600 ARC LRF Binoculars 10x (still under warranty) - $650 (Eric?)
  3. Kestrel 4000NV $165 (Scott?)
  4. Manfrotto 055XPROB w/ 322rc2 head & 2 plates - SPF Jason
  5. PRS SSP-1 Rifle Cradle and Universal Tripod Optics Mounting Plate - SPF (Jason)
  6. RCBS Chargemaster Combo - $275
  7. Used Gunslinger 2 w/ raincover, 3 Liter Hydration System WXP3L(new & unused), 2 liter accessory pouch, and side scabbard. There is a missing snap on the accessory pouch, and the chest buckle needs sewn. SPF (Steve)
  8. Used .30cal bore snake - $10
  9. New 5.11 XL Rapid Assault Shirt TDU Green $50

I'll be at work all day. PM me or send a text and iI will respond when I get a chance. There might be more coming up including my glass which I got at a bargain and some of my steel. Thank you...

Nick
 
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Nick just let me know that Sportsmans Warehouse in Silverdale had 2 60 round Surefire mags in stock right now, If your interested get in there.
 
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