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All~American

Was almost in the military
Minuteman
Feb 6, 2021
22
5
Tennessee
I’m looking to start pulling the trigger on some NVG and thermal but, like most everyone else, I don’t have unlimited money for quad-nods. I’ve heard a lot of good things about bridging gen3 PVS14s with the FLIR Breach PTQ136 and how they actually can make a great sight picture together for less than an arm and a leg. I’m looking for the thoughts, opinions and the experiences from those who have or are running this system.

I’ve also heard that a white phosphor lens on the NVG isn’t a bad idea because it brings both viewing devices on a similar color palette, reducing the noise between the two overlaying each other. Thoughts? Recommendations?
 
I tried it, I hated it, my brain did not mesh the images well, partially because the breach is a processed image, so there is a slight delay in processing - the PVS14 is not - so they are, at least during movement, not synced. I tried running that setup several times in multiple configurations, each gave me a splitting headache in a relatively short time.

Others have run it and like it, your mileage will vary. I highly recommend renting before you buy. I know there are a few companies that will rent NV gear, probably thermal too: buy what you know you want, rent what you think you might want.

I thought FLIR backed out of the civilian thermal market a few years ago, did they not?
 
I tried it, I hated it, my brain did not mesh the images well, partially because the breach is a processed image, so there is a slight delay in processing - the PVS14 is not - so they are, at least during movement, not synced. I tried running that setup several times in multiple configurations, each gave me a splitting headache in a relatively short time.

Others have run it and like it, your mileage will vary. I highly recommend renting before you buy. I know there are a few companies that will rent NV gear, probably thermal too: buy what you know you want, rent what you think you might want.

I thought FLIR backed out of the civilian thermal market a few years ago, did they not?
They still market and sell the breach to civi's. Flir doesn't do weapons sights to civi's.
 
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The FLIR Breach is one of the those entry levels items that are literally not worth your time or money, spend the extra money and go for something nicer, or get a COTI.
 
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The FLIR Breach is one of the those entry levels items that are literally not worth your time or money, spend the extra money and go for something nicer, or get a COTI.
I have a COTI. It is better than nothing but not the most exciting piece of kit. Skeet-L or a NOX18 would be better than a Breach but some people really like the Breach and a 14, some really like the COTI. They both have their place and a purpose. Which reminds me that I need to order a COTI remote battery cable if they have more..
 
... @wigwamitus has run a setup like that if I remember correctly. I believe he liked it ...

Yes, I have two breaches ... and generally run them side by side with pvs-14 on head. They are not skeets, patrols or nox-18s ... they don't have BAE cores !!!
Compared to COTI, they are a tiny bit fuzzier close up ... and can detect about 20% farther (cow at 600yds for breach vs cow at 500yds for coti).

I think both devices are rather "misunderstood" and hence there is a lot of "hate" for both. So if you are looking for a $2k skeet (or patrol or nox18 - keep looking !!! :D ...

The COTI is good for enhancing shooting with laser. It can produce a situation where you can see a (close up) target with the thermal and engage with the laser, even though the 14 cannot see the target. The "magic" of fusion.
The COTI is NOT a mini-skeet (or patrol or nox-18) ... it is a terrible long distance scanner. It is way better than nothing as a long distance detection device.

The breach has fixed focus at somewhere between 25yds and 50yds ... I made some focusing adjustment tools and adjusted the focus trying to push optimal distance out to say 150yds. The range of motion on the lens adjustment was tiny and I did not get the result I was hoping for. There is a tiny bit of improvement, but not as much as I hoped.
The strength of the breach is detection, not PID. As I said, cows in the open out to 600yds.
The hot spot is cow at 600yds with breach.
50146999553_fb3803deb5_z.jpg


And here is the same scene a few seconds later with the Genesis A55.
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Note the genesis was in dedicated TWS mode and hence had 3x on the front end.

But you can see, the Breach only clearly sees one cow, and these were "avg" conditions, hence I peg the limit of breach detection of cow at 600yds. But its still way better than nothing !!

Also, the breach can be a thermal clipon, in an emergency. This requires some work to get a decent mounting solution, but whowhatwherehownowbrowncow and I have been working on this idea for about 2 years and have continued to improve the solution. The current solution eliminates the wobble of prior solutions (which used various MUM weapon mounts).
PM if you want to know more about this use case.

The COTI could in theory be used behind an EOTECH, but a mounting solution that would work, would leave the COTI exposed to more recoil than I would want to expose it to.

I also find the breach very useful moving in woods, seeing various aspects of the terrain, like pools of water. Especially in DARK conditions where NV is coming up short.

Street prices for Breaches, averaging new and used are around $2k.

Street prices for used cotis, the vectronics ones Euro was selling at around $2.5k, are now $3k (the street price actually went up after Euro sold out).

If you shoot a lot with a laser, I would lean towards the COTI. If not, I would lean towards the breach. If you are often in open fields, I would lean towards the Breach.

I have two COTIs and two Breaches. :)

And its another plus for folks who are looking for non-chinese solutions, almost everything under $5,500 is chinese (or the parts are) ... these two critters are exceptions to that rule!

if you're ok with Chinese, the buy Chinese, you'll get a better image close up, at least until the unit breaks :D (Ive have 7 chinese units 5 of them broke pretty quickly in field conditions).
 
I tried it, I hated it, my brain did not mesh the images well, partially because the breach is a processed image, so there is a slight delay in processing - the PVS14 is not - so they are, at least during movement, not synced. I tried running that setup several times in multiple configurations, each gave me a splitting headache in a relatively short time.

Others have run it and like it, your mileage will vary. I highly recommend renting before you buy. I know there are a few companies that will rent NV gear, probably thermal too: buy what you know you want, rent what you think you might want.

I thought FLIR backed out of the civilian thermal market a few years ago, did they not?
For curiosity sake, what lens were you running in the PVS14? I do see how the slight lag from thermal could make syncing the two difficult and possibly nauseating, but I’m wondering if a white phosphor lens would blend the picture enough to reduce it. I know this is different for everyone though, not all eyes are created equal I guess.
 
No eyes are created equal, to be clear. The universe literally runs on inequality...

I was running traditional greens with a purple filter, closer to white phos but less bright. I know white phos is all the range, I actually don't like them. My eyes do better coming off greens and adjusting to darkness than they do coming off phos.

And the "not synced" is not a color issue, it is a delay in image due to processing. NV don't delay, it is an optical device that is just passing light through (I know how they work, it is a simplification, I know) where thermal is looking at an image on a screen that has been digitally created. As such, the thermal image is tenths to hundredths of a second delayed, and my brain hates that delay.

Also, I was operating in wooded areas with small targets and not always a huge temperature differential. The breach did not like some or all of those things.

I have adjusted my setup and strategy to running duals on movement with dedicated spotters/shooters for thermal scanning and target engagement. There is certainly value in melding thermal and NOD on helmet, I just haven't done it well yet. Other option is dual thermals on helmet: similar image delay (assuming a few things) but the loss of dimensionality might be problematic moving in a very non-flat, not-wide-open area.

Optimize gear to mission, not mission to gear.
 
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I run the breach and pvs14 and really like it, seems to work well for me. I have the breach on my left eye and pvs on the right. I shoot right handed and close the breach eye when shooting with the laser mounted on the rifle. It isnt exacly overlayed like everyone was saying. My jackrussel looks like a dog and a half when i am watching him run around. Its not a big deal for me, I kill shit all the time with this set up.
You have to work on the brightness to get them set right.
 
I run a nox18 with a WP pvs14. Like has been mentioned, it really depends on the person and don’t set your expectations too high. I originally imagined the images fusing together really seamlessly but they don’t.

You can use the gain on the pvs to help determine which eye is going to be more dominate at any given time. When walking I turn the gain up a bit and I mostly see the NV. I can get enough data to see a hot spot so I turn down the gain and can better see the thermal image.

It takes constant work and isn’t what I’d consider “comfortable” on the eyes. It does add capability though so just keep playing with it until you find something that works for you.

Set your expectations low so you’ll be more pleased. If you think it’s going to be like fusion you’ll be very disappointed.
 
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Im torn between this same boat and just going with duals. I'd love to play with a 14/thermal, duel 14's and a good dual. White, green, etc. Where can a guy rent/ play with a bunch of this shit in CO to try and make a decision. I really want to buy once cry once and am brand new to the game. Im only in for one rig this year and dont want to be pissing and moaning until I can get another.
 
I had a friend that rented from ultimate night vision, was happy with them. When he finally bought, they backed the rental fees out of the price - I don't know if they still do that.
Buying is not cheap, nor is renting, just be prepared to drop some cash.

And, again, it comes down to use case, buy for the job you need to do most and/or best.
 
And, again, it comes down to use case, buy for the job you need to do most and/or best.

I would echo this. You’ll find that there is no perfect system, it’s all a compromise in some way so really define what you want to do the most and buy for that. Anything else it will do is a bonus.
 
The FLIR Breach is one of the those entry levels items that are literally not worth your time or money, spend the extra money and go for something nicer, or get a COTI.
I regretfully have to agree with this. I wanted badly to like the breach and actually think the build quality of the housing is excellent. However it’s ability to detect and differentiate between hot objects made it near useless for me. I require a thermal that can be used in the city if need be, and the breach is mainly suited for detection in open fields. And even then you really need to dial the settings to each environment get it to do the most basic tasks.

Attached are the very best photos I was able to get. In every other situation it was near unusable, to include detecting a full grown man walking on asphalt at 100 yards. People were basically invisible to the breach if they were on warm asphalt or near warm objects like vehicles and concrete.

These deer were at 35 yards roughly. It would do much better in a cool/dry environment with open fields. The breach works great at distances in which you are already able to see and identify with the naked eye. These photos probably do it too much justice. It took about an hour messing with settings and finding a perfect place and large enough animals to actually work
 

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Literally fucking hated having thermal on my non dominant eye and made me sick to my stomach

It needs to be on your dominant eye or not at all. For me it was not at all. Not saying thermal is useless, far from it, but I've come to use it more for observation or on a rifle than on my helmet.

Not being able to aim passively at night is a deal breaker for me.
 
Literally fucking hated having thermal on my non dominant eye and made me sick to my stomach

It needs to be on your dominant eye or not at all. For me it was not at all.
Sucks to suck. My brain doesn't care which eyeball gets the thermal and which gets the -14.
 
I’m looking to start pulling the trigger on some NVG and thermal but, like most everyone else, I don’t have unlimited money for quad-nods. I’ve heard a lot of good things about bridging gen3 PVS14s with the FLIR Breach PTQ136 and how they actually can make a great sight picture together for less than an arm and a leg. I’m looking for the thoughts, opinions and the experiences from those who have or are running this system.

I’ve also heard that a white phosphor lens on the NVG isn’t a bad idea because it brings both viewing devices on a similar color palette, reducing the noise between the two overlaying each other. Thoughts? Recommendations?
I run a PVS-14 and a FLIR Breach, it has Pro's and Con's like any other setup. Unless someone has the setup please don't take any advise from them.

Pro's:
- Greater capability to see organic targets that night vision doesn't detect.
- When properly mounted and centered your eyes can adapt to blending the images. So people struggle with this but I have no no problems and mine is adjusted prefect with the NoiseFighters Panobridge.

Con's:
- For CQB Dual NVG is better. PVS14 & FLIR Breach shines when outdoors.
- Some people struggle to get good image alignment for image blending.

I have been using my setup for about 9-months now and have no complaints.
- Ballistic Armor Company Ballistic Helmet.
- Wilcox G11 Mount
- NoiseFighter Panobridge
- FLIR Breach PTQ136 w/ battery pack.
- PVS-14 WP

The NoiseFighter Panobridge and a Wilcox mount is really needed to get proper imagine alignment.

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