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Gunsmithing Question for all of you guys

reewik

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jun 8, 2009
    377
    66
    La Vergne, TN
    I have my Remington 700 SPS in a HS Precision "LTR" stock. I was shooting very well at 100 (.14 to .28" groups) and as low as .18" at 200 yards with this setup. Then the other day i loaded up my usual rounds and hit the 200. I was shooting 2 to 2.5" left of bull. I moved to 100 yards and was still shooting left. The wind was about 1-3 mph which should have no real impact at this range. Plus this is about the same as the last week when I was dead on bulls. I have heard it said that just using the stock as is there could be movement on the bedding block. the stock is not skim bedded it is stock. Any suggestions? Also is there a reason why this stock makes the gun jump more then the stock, stock...LOL
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    Have you checked your action screws to make sure they are tight? Did you change anything about the way you held the rifle? Shooting from a bipod? different sand bags or rest? Sometimes a very little change that we might not even take notice of will throw things off. Stop and think if you did anything different.

    Good luck.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    Everything was the same as usual. I will re torque all bolts and screws. I hope it is not the scope but if it is I do happen to have the cash for a new one. It only has about 800 rounds on the scope.

    I torqued it all down to mil spec, all seemed fine...

    I did clean it pretty darn well, you think that could be it?
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    How many rounds did you put through it before you started looking at your groups? Depending on how you clean it, it can move it a bunch. Put at least 10 15 rounds through it before you start to worry to much. If that is not the case, than ya check bases and rings and the scope.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    My groups are still MOA or less they just shifted to the left. I can bring it back on target but it makes me wonder what the heck happened to my Zero.. All is tight, super tight. (torqued to mil spec)
    I shot a .18" and .20" (3 shot ) at 200y it was just not where I was aiming, It was off to the left as stated and the weekend prior I was on the bull. In my log, wind is the same.. the temp was 5 deg higher this past weekend. humidity was a little different but not to much.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    But how many rounds did you shoot after cleaning before you shot those groups? And did you re shoot them after say 15 or so rounds? Some guns, mine included will have to work back into their zero.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    Oh sorry, It was from the first round all the way to the 50th for the day. My cold shots were close to dead on to my warm barrel zero.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    Are you sure you didn't or someone else didn't move your adjustments. Are you sure something didn't change in your load data. New powder lot, new primer lot, new brass, and so on.

    Could be so many things it just too hard to say.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I was shooting .18" groups at 200 yds., from a bipod, I'd click the scope and never look back. </div></div>

    He is only shooting 3 shot groups ................................
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    Was the wind blowing from the left to right last time you shot this rig?

    When you look down the barrel do you see any noticeable bends in it anywhere?

    Have you checked your bolt fluid?
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    I have the definitive answer.

    Some days..., life is that way...

    Greg
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys



    He is only shooting 3 shot groups ................................ [/quote]

    Right, and your point. It only takes one my friend, it only takes one...
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was the wind blowing from the left to right last time you shot this rig? </div></div>

    All the same ... Left to right

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you look down the barrel do you see any noticeable bends in it anywhere? </div></div>

    LOL.. NOPE

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you checked your bolt fluid? </div></div> I could not find the dipstick.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: reewik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I shot a .18" and .20" (3 shot ) at 200y it was just not where I was aiming, It was off to the left as stated and the weekend prior I was on the bull. In my log, wind is the same.. the temp was 5 deg higher this past weekend. humidity was a little different but not to much. </div></div>

    If your factory gun shoots in the 1s and 2s at 200 you should seek the nearest hunter bench rest match and kick ass. The 10 ring at 100 is only .5 inch. I am sure they will let you use your bipod.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just what is "mil spec" torque?

    </div></div>

    I was waiting for that query!!
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    PS GUYS I was looking for constructive replies not smart ass replies. I guess that is what I get for asking on the net! I thanks all of you that take this forum serious and as a way to help folks out!
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    I asked because not every mount/ring and action screw torque values are the same, and I've never heard a "mil-spec" for optics mounting, just manufacturer's recommended torque specs.

    For example, if you have an EGW or other aluminum base (as you didn't specify what base/rings, or scope for that matter you are running) you can squish the base using 65 in/lbs on the ring's cross screws.

    The folks here can only speculate what is happening, with the limited info you have given (and still could only speculate if you provided every detail anyway). You haven't said if anything changed (from load data such as brass to a different lot of bullets/powder, to parallax setting on your scope or possible different cheekweld/position).
    Too many variables.

    Another manufacturer of stocks with aluminum bedding blocks recommends skim bedding them for use with factory actions, as factory actions are rarely true.

    Ask a vague question and stand on a statement like "mil-spec" here, without giving details on optics and mounts and and you can expect some skewed responses, deal with it.

    Most readers are probably pretty leery of claims of groups from .05-.1's from a LTR in factory form from a bipod-hence the kind suggestion to go hit a few BR matches.
    Obviously those guys spend way too much to get a rifle and rest setup to shoot in the .1's and you could probably show them a thing or two.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    Gotcha man, sorry about that. Maybe Milspec is the wrong word to use. next time I will provide more details. I sold the HS and ordered my A5 so now I will be starting all over anyway...LOL
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    if it is wandering horizontally , not doubting your wind doping ability here just my opinion.it is usually the wind.vertical wanderin points me in the direction of loading or bedding.
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    I apologize for my flippant response.

    Retracing, I was simply giving shorthand for the vaguaries of shooting reality. There are lots of issues involved, more than are defined here, maybe more than can be defined here.

    Accuracy of the degree you describe is actually somewhat beyond the 'practical' accuracy most of us deal with here. It's somewhat more into the realm of the 'ultimate' accuracy that BR shooters deal with. The more accuracy one achieves, the more factors there are that can upset the cart. The problems you describe are very similar to what one hears at a BR meet.

    Here's a few thoughts about what can change when 'nothing' is changing.

    Parallax. If it's not right, cheekweld variances, even small ones, can create dispersion.

    Case neck hardness. Reloading hardens necks, and harder necks result in altered neck tension. Altered neck tension affects dispersion; so even the same brass is not really the same brass the next time around.

    But mostly, the environment is also changing in ways that can be difficult to detect. If the kind of accuracy you describe is habitual, you're really quite privileged. If it isn't, then maybe the experience you describe (the good one) is the anomoly, and might not be as repeatable as one may suspect.

    Muzzle flip[ (I'm guessing this is what youre describing when you refer to the change in recoil) can be altered by means of stock ergonomics. The less drop there is at the stock's heel, the less flip. Comparing a classic sidelock percussion rifle's stock lines with the more straight line configuration of the AR stock is a relevent illustration. Stocks that resemble the AR have less flip than the sidelock does.

    Greg
     
    Re: Question for all of you guys

    Thanks guys...

    i wish this was an every time event. I will say that very few times am I shooting outside of 1 moa, if I do my part.. the rifle is a shooter from the factory. I will have to see how she does with the new A5 on the way.