Rifle Scopes SEALs Scope... I know!!!

slothlacrosse

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Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I do intend to put my reputation on this scope. I intend to put my reputation on the integrity of the data I've collected and presented.</div></div>

Tell me more about this "reputation."
 

NorthernBorn

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Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

This thread is now running in complete circles both from the OP and people replying to him.

Let it die already. For the price there are many much better and reliable options and that's what people are going to buy.

No one cares if you got a "decent" Counter Sniper scope. For your one scope there are dozens of others that got complete garbage.

So please.... just let this thread fade away.
 

Graham

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Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If all these people, that you claim I'm insulting, are experts they should be able to explain where I've gone wrong in a well reasoned manner. I haven't seen that. If I've missed it somewhere please show me. </div></div>There's a stage that all children go through in which to everything they just keep asking "Why?". No matter the answer, they will again ask "Why?" Doing that doesn't make a four-year-old sound more rational either.
 

armednsafe

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Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

Refusing to answer fairly simple technical questions with reason and evidence (Even an "I don't know." would suffice.) doesn't make adults look rational.
 

NorthernBorn

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Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

Only nine more useless responses and you'll hit 100 posts so you can sell that POS in the PX armednsafe!

Creative way to get there!
 

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Everyone keeps telling you Hitler committed genocide and you keep arguing that he built great highways. You win the internet.
 

armednsafe

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Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

I'm not going to sell that scope here. I have a seller's account on Gun Broker. I have the same screen name on Gun Broker too, look me up. I'm honestly doing this to get some information and share some information. I really don't care about being able to sell stuff on this forum. I didn't even know that you need 100 posts to that until people brought it up.
 

armednsafe

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Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone keeps telling you Hitler committed genocide and you keep arguing that he built great highways. You win the internet. </div></div>

So, is the autobahn a shitty road because Hitler was a bad guy? Also, I'm not arguing that CounterSniper is a good company. I agree with all the bad things people have said about the company.
 

Kevlars

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Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

Ok you want personal exp. my father in law brought one over for me to mount on his rifle. Observations.... Heavy distortion around edges, mil markings not accurate-measure 1.1 mils, turret do not return to zero-elev. going up increases in error margin as elevation increases. Elev. was in 1/8 increments and had only three rotations available-max adj. I informed him of these issues. He sent it back for a replacement. New unit had same issues but error was more pronounced.

For wanting to sell this to someone else is ls like finding out you bought a fake rolex watch and the selling it to someone else to recover your funds. No morels what so ever, You are a real piece of work
 

shankster..

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Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I'm not going to sell that scope here. I have a seller's account on Gun Broker.</span> I have the same screen name on Gun Broker too, look me up. I'm honestly doing this to get some information and share some information. I really don't care about being able to sell stuff on this forum. I didn't even know that you need 100 posts to that until people brought it up. </div></div>

Only thing worse than getting bad karma is getting bad firearm karma. You have shown your true colors with this post.
 

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do intend to take some professional instruction some day when I can afford it. Right now, I'm working on getting my masters of science in mechanical engineering majoring in controls.

    Yeah, I realized I made the mistake with homonym about 3 minutes before I read your post. I corrected it for you.
    smile.gif
    </div></div>

    With my mere BSME with my PE this company and the products they bring to market are JUNK (a technical term).

    They prey on the uninformed. They use hyperbole and deceit to bring a sub-par product to market. THIS forum is to try and promote “The Serious Tactical Marksman”. They have their place somewhere, just not here. Compare it and contrast it with products that cost similar and they will fall far short. Let it stand on its own merits and you will find that your “8/10” is not an appropriate score.
     

    Chiller

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this thread still going?


    facepalm01.gif
    </div></div>

    Agreed....
     

    The Mechanic

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If all these people, that you claim I'm insulting, are experts they should be able to explain where I've gone wrong in a well reasoned manner. I haven't seen that. If I've missed it somewhere please show me. </div></div>

    Please be polite and realize you are defending an inconsistent, low quality optic of dubious marketing ploys. From your video I can tell you are much better man than to stake your reputation defending that scope. I'm hoping you can become part of this community and be a contributor

    Your video was very thorough, it is just that the scope couldn't track through adjustments and you had to lock the turrets when it was in a "sighted in" situation to have it be accurate. You need to understand that those two deficiencies are deal-breakers on this forum.

    Can you understand that and we can all drop the subject?</div></div>
    Dang Shank that was almost poetry! You can go from a funny f*cker to a engineer, to an editor in a snap. Kudos
     

    Graham

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a stage that all children go through in which to everything they just keep asking "Why?". No matter the answer, they will again ask "Why?" Doing that doesn't make a four-year-old sound more rational either. </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Refusing to answer fairly simple technical questions with reason and evidence (Even an "I don't know." would suffice.) doesn't make adults look rational. </div></div>Children also play a game called "I know you are but what am I". To everything people say, the child reponds: "I know you are, but what am I?" The game isn't any less annoying when you play it on the Internet as an adult.
     

    armednsafe

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    You've had a bad experience with these scopes. Noted. Can you answer my question? How much error in the adjustments is acceptable for a scope of this price?
     

    armednsafe

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    For those of you who say that I'm a bad person without any morals for wanting to sell the scope...
    I will encourage the person to which I will sell it to watch my review, see what the scope does, and make a value judgement based on that. Do you think I'm going to try the same marketing tactics that Counter Sniper uses and tell them this thing is "the world's finest optical gun sight" and sell it for an inflated price? Was selling the Nikon Buckmasters that I had that performed about the same immoral?
    I'm surprised that so few of you can actually bring a reasoned argument forward.
     

    Graham

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You've had a bad experience with these scopes. Noted. Can you answer my question? How much error in the adjustments is acceptable for a scope of this price? </div></div>Asked and answered. You are assuming that a broken scope is worth a price, has utility and value. That's your assumption, it's based on a lack of knowledge, and it won't let you understand the answer.

    Look up onto the Thread, from whence cometh your help:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the scope doesn't track it's broken. Period. An adjustment range that makes the error bigger is then not a feature,</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We don't 'walk' rounds to the target. One adjustment on the scope should equal one of those adjustments in the real world, throughout the adjustment range. </div></div>

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm surprised that so few of you can actually bring a reasoned argument forward. </div></div>You wouldn't know a reasoned argument if it was etched on your reticle.
     

    chaser_2332

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You've had a bad experience with these scopes. Noted. Can you answer my question? How much error in the adjustments is acceptable for a scope of this price? </div></div>

    None is acceptable, just look at the bushnell 10x mil/mil its a $200 scope that will correctly all day and has good glass.
     

    slothlacrosse

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You've had a bad experience with these scopes. Noted. Can you answer my question? How much error in the adjustments is acceptable for a scope of this price?</div></div>

    For a precision optic, none. 1/4 MOA is 1/4 MOA. 0.1 mil is 0.1 mils.

    It's unfair to compare a $2000 optic to a $300 scope, but the SS 10x40 I owned tracked beautifully. 1/4 MOA all day long (the whole way through it's adjustment range).
     

    armednsafe

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    Look up into the thread where I have brought arguments against these issues you raise that you have not addressed.
     

    skkeeter

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    Trolls lack the quality known as humility.

    Op, give it a rest and swallow you stubborn pride on this one if you want to salvage your "reputation". No one is going to take you seriously from now on. And as for my bone in this argument. I bought one of these pos scopes years ago and ended up giving it to a friend for free because he wanted to try it out. This is after the fact that I told him it wouldn't hold a zero and had contaminants all over the glass surfaces.
     

    armednsafe

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    I think chaser 2332 and shotlacrosse are getting toward an answer to my question about expected precision and accuracy. But I still don't have a number yet. Because what you're saying is 'perfect' is the only acceptable amount of error, we have to throw out every scope as soon as you see any measurable error in the adjustments. Are these scopes that you have never seen any error in? Can you post a picture of a target? I'd like to see that. I also have to ask, what kind of recoil were your scopes putting up with? I am willing to admit I was wrong, but I'd like to see some evidence of your claims, please.
     

    armednsafe

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    I'm sorry you didn't have very good results with your scope. But mine holds zero on my .338 Norma and the glass is not too bad.
     

    Yasherka

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you speaking from personal experience with a CounterSniper scope?</div></div>

    Yep, this is usually a dead giveaway statement of either a fanboy or an employee of the "company" in question. Because in their eyes NO ONE is able to learn from the mistakes of others; you have to actually buy the piece of crap in order to be qualified to comment on it.

    To give the glass an 8/10 is at best ludicrous. To say you can just "walk it in" as opposed to making one adjustment is silly. To hide behind the statement that no scope tracks perfectly, thereby implying there is no substantive difference between a Dark Ops abortion and a Premier is lazy and disingenuous.
     

    armednsafe

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    By personal experience, I did not mean that you actually have owned one. I just meant you've used it or seen first hand how they perform and not relied on 2nd hand information.

    No piece of equipment is perfect. But that doesn't mean there is no substantive difference in any piece of equipment. For example, if model X scope tracks within 1 MOA and brand Y tracks within 1/8 MOA, neither is perfect but brand Y is more precise and accurate.
     

    Surffshr

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tofst4u2no</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I predict that this thread will continue for about 51 more replies by armednsafe. After that expect to see stuff from him in the for sale section </div></div>

    One more!
     

    NorthernBorn

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    No piece of equipment is perfect. But that doesn't mean there is no substantive difference in any piece of equipment. For example, if model X scope tracks within 1 MOA and brand Y tracks within 1/8 MOA, neither is perfect but brand Y is more precise and accurate. </div></div>

    Brand A advertises their scope is adjustable in 0.1 Mil increments and the scope performs as advertised.

    Brand B advertises their scope is adjustable in 0.1 Mil increments but under testing each adjustment is 0.18 Mils or each click provides a different increment.

    Brand A is good to go. Brand B is a POS that does not perform reliably and the purchaser is a victim of false advertisement.

    Both scopes cost the same amount of money. This example has been given to you OVER AND OVER again. STOP arguing. You are the ONLY person that thinks that malfunctioning equipment is OK as long as you spend less than X amount of dollars on it.
     

    chaser_2332

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    so if i have a condom break and impregnate a latino hooker that's acceptable becuase I bought the 3 quarter condom in a gas station bathroom stalll, instead of a trojan because it cost 3 times as much?
     

    armednsafe

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    OK, lets say that "perfect" is a reasonable answer for expected scope adjustment precision and accuracy. Then all scopes that show any sign of not being perfect are trash, not just Counter Snipers, right?

    Yeah!!! I made it to 100!! Now I can sell shit to people on this forum!!! My life is complete!!! (Where's the eye roll smilie?)
     

    NorthernBorn

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    Yup. You are so entrenched in this strange sense of pride that no matter what anyone says you're just going to keep arguing.

    You didn't gain anything through this entire argument with all of these people. You dug yourself a hole and you just don't want to come out of it. That's ok though because I don't have to participate in this jackass festival if I don't want to.

    I'm out!
     

    shankster..

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, lets say that "perfect" is a reasonable answer for expected scope adjustment precision and accuracy. Then all scopes that show any sign of not being perfect are trash, not just Counter Snipers, right?

    Yeah!!! I made it to 100!! Now I can sell shit to people on this forum!!! My life is complete!!! (Where's the eye roll smilie?) </div></div>

    <span style="font-weight: bold">100 posts. 84 in this thread. Congrats, you're going places.</span>
     

    armednsafe

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    If you're going to be fucking hookers, you should probably get the nicest condoms money can buy.
     

    shankster..

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're going to be fucking hookers, you should probably get the nicest condoms money can buy. </div></div>



    XciVE.jpg
     

    armednsafe

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    It's better than no scope at all. I shot better with it than looking down the barrel. The scope I had before that wasn't any better, but I don't hear anyone bashing Nikon.
     

    armednsafe

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    As I've shown, my Viper PST didn't track to perfection. Is it a defective scope? Should I send it back to Vortex to get it replaced?
     

    Early Cuyler

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I've shown, my Viper PST didn't track to perfection. Is it a defective scope? Should I send it back to Vortex to get it replaced? </div></div>

    Yes
     

    armednsafe

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    Thanks. I'll contact Vortex and see what they say. Hopefully, I can get a scope that tracks perfectly. That would be an awesome change.
     

    scullti

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    Hey, random thought. Is the guy who originally created this thread about the seals scope (not countersniper) still around and still have that scope? I'm interested to see how it held up since the THREE YEARS when this thread was originally started... And originally had no intent of talking about countersniper scopes...
     

    Chiller

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    In that as you stated you are perusing your MSME. Here is my “acceptable” level of tolerance in that this scope is a mechanical device and should easily be able to be a multiple if not an order of magnitude better than me. Its level of consistency should be well within my own level of inconsistency. In that I have multiple 5+ shot groups that are sub .5MOA the scope should be able to track well within that. As the saying goes, “all day, any day”. I fully understand that I am the weak link in the firing solution and if the scope is adding to that degree of inconsistency then it is not serving me.
     

    Chiller

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I've shown, my Viper PST didn't track to perfection. Is it a defective scope? Should I send it back to Vortex to get it replaced? </div></div>

    Was that independently verified? A statistical sampling of one person is not a strong statistical basis. That being said Vortex’s CS is second to none
     

    Chiller

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Surffshr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tofst4u2no</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I predict that this thread will continue for about 51 more replies by armednsafe. After that expect to see stuff from him in the for sale section </div></div>

    One more! </div></div>

    It will not serve him well if it does.....
     

    armednsafe

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    I've emailed both Vortex and Counter Sniper about the problems I've had with tracking. We'll see how each company handles the issue. I would expect nothing but the best from Vortex from what I've heard. I've had a good response from Counter Sniper in the past, and I hope that continues. Thank you to everyone who attempted to answer my question about what I should expect from scopes in general, instead of just attacking me personally.
     

    Chiller

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's better than no scope at all. I shot better with it than looking down the barrel. The scope I had before that wasn't any better, but I don't hear anyone bashing Nikon. </div></div>

    You need to meet some High Power and Palma shooter.
     

    armednsafe

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armednsafe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I've shown, my Viper PST didn't track to perfection. Is it a defective scope? Should I send it back to Vortex to get it replaced? </div></div>

    Was that independently verified? A statistical sampling of one person is not a strong statistical basis. That being said Vortex’s CS is second to none

    </div></div>

    I'm not sure who I would get to do that. A gunsmith? Would they write a letter to Vortex or something? If I've had such bad luck with 3 scopes tracking (2 from reputable companies), it could be me or my set up. But, I'm able to make small groups when I shoot. Is there anything more to it than make the adjustments and shoot consistently?
     

    chaser_2332

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    are you sure you know how to do a tracking test? it looks like you were shooting a mil scope in a target thats set it in inches?
     

    cpt.creedmoor

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chaser_2332</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you sure you know how to do a tracking test? it looks like you were shooting a mil scope in a target thats set it in inches? </div></div>


    leave some slack upon the rope dude.....damn....lol
     

    chaser_2332

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    Re: SEALs Scope... I know!!!

    CC is it bad i cant stop staring at your avitar........you think we could act that out at PTS together?