Side play in sight picture using 1907 sling on R700

[ChrisBCS]

Snapping in I notice slight rightward movement of sight picture as I begin trigger pull in prone. Am I not squared up enough? Elbow is under the piece. Should I be pulling into my shoulder more with my non trigger fingers? Thumb is over the stock.

Corollary question, how do you adjust NPA elevation when prone/slung?

 

[remr5]

I don't know of anyone using a sling to assist in the prone position. Your body should be straight behind the rifle, feet flat on the ground and push into the rifle (loading the bipod).

 

[Erud]

I don't know of anyone using a sling to assist in the prone position. Your body should be straight behind the rifle, feet flat on the ground and push into the rifle (loading the bipod).

If you don't know anyone using a sling in prone, why would you even respond to this topic?

OP, is it possible you are not pulling the trigger straight back? If not, pulling to the right would suggest that you have too much finger on the trigger, or the trigger shoe is too far rearward for your hand. Adjust your trigger hand position while dry firing until you are pulling it straight rearward every time and make a mental note of where on your trigger finger the trigger needs to be. Some people will tell you that the trigger needs to be on the pad, of your finger tip, others will say the distil joint - they are all wrong. The only correct spot is the one that results in straight rearward trigger pull, wherever that might be.

Plenty of other possibilities here, but that's my first guess.

Easiest way to quickly adjust elevation when shooting with a sling is to slide your body forward and back very slightly while keeping your arms planted. Forward will lower POA and rearward will raise it. Remember that anything you move will have an effect on your NPA, right down to your toes. The more you shoot this way, making these small adjustments will become second nature. For more major adjustments, variations in sling length, handstop position(if you are using one), length of pull, and height of buttplate in the shoulder will all change NPA quick.

Good luck.

 

[ChrisBCS]

I don't know of anyone using a sling to assist in the prone position. Your body should be straight behind the rifle, feet flat on the ground and push into the rifle (loading the bipod).

Uh... there are plenty of people who heartily and steadfastly prefer it over a bipod. For a lot of reasons.

 

[ChrisBCS]

Thank you Erud, great post.

 

[M40_A1]

You don't square up when using a sling. That may be the problem. Also, canting is often due to too tight a sling, or having it wrapped around the heel of your hand instead of over your wrist. Your wrist should be fairly straight.

 

[ChrisBCS]

Thank you sir.

 

[remr5]

If you don't know anyone using a sling in prone, why would you even respond to this topic?

OP, is it possible you are not pulling the trigger straight back? If not, pulling to the right would suggest that you have too much finger on the trigger, or the trigger shoe is too far rearward for your hand. Adjust your trigger hand position while dry firing until you are pulling it straight rearward every time and make a mental note of where on your trigger finger the trigger needs to be. Some people will tell you that the trigger needs to be on the pad, of your finger tip, others will say the distil joint - they are all wrong. The only correct spot is the one that results in straight rearward trigger pull, wherever that might be.

Plenty of other possibilities here, but that's my first guess.

Easiest way to quickly adjust elevation when shooting with a sling is to slide your body forward and back very slightly while keeping your arms planted. Forward will lower POA and rearward will raise it. Remember that anything you move will have an effect on your NPA, right down to your toes. The more you shoot this way, making these small adjustments will become second nature. For more major adjustments, variations in sling length, handstop position(if you are using one), length of pull, and height of buttplate in the shoulder will all change NPA quick.

Good luck.

Well because I don't know of anyone using a sling and since this is a conversation I wanted to explore new areas and topics and possibly learn something new. I don't see the benefit of using a sling when there are other options available, but again this is why I chimed in.

 

[remr5]

Uh... there are plenty of people who heartily and steadfastly prefer it over a bipod. For a lot of reasons.

Can you name some situations where using a sling would be more steady than a bipod or pack? Or is using a sling more geared to a specific type of shooting sport for example f class? I'm sorry but there is no way that physically holding a rifle with the aid of a sling in the prone position would be more steady than a bipod or pack for long distance shooting.

 

[Erud]

Well because I don't know of anyone using a sling and since this is a conversation I wanted to explore new areas and topics and possibly learn something new. I don't see the benefit of using a sling when there are other options available, but again this is why I chimed in.

I guess I could have phrased my question better. Let me try it again:

if you don't even know of anyone using a sling at all, why would you chime in on this topic offering advice on how to shoot with a bipod, when the OP is clearly asking about sling technique?

 

[pmclaine]

Can you name some situations where using a sling would be more steady than a bipod or pack? Or is using a sling more geared to a specific type of shooting sport for example f class? I'm sorry but there is no way that physically holding a rifle with the aid of a sling in the prone position would be more steady than a bipod or pack for long distance shooting.

Sometimes you dont have a bipod or a pack. Until relatively recently a sling was it just as riflemen would rely on irons.

The sling and irons are the default, everything else has failed, go to technology. Their use is a great skill to have. Like being able to use a compass when your GPS has failed.

Regards sport the sling is geared to - Highpower rifle. Sling is used in sitting/prone. No artificial support in the off hand. Marine Corps qualification on the KD range is performed with loop sling. Good sling/position is the difference between pizza box and Expert.

Expand your skills.

 

[Erud]

I'm sorry but there is no way that physically holding a rifle with the aid of a sling in the prone position would be more steady than a bipod or pack for long distance shooting.

That would depend on the shooter. For you, that's probably an accurate statement. I can shoot ok with a sling at pretty long distances.

 

[ChrisBCS]

Sometimes you dont have a bipod or a pack. Until relatively recently a sling was it just as riflemen would rely on irons.

The sling and irons are the default, everything else has failed, go to technology. Their use is a great skill to have. Like being able to use a compass when your GPS has failed.

Regards sport the sling is geared to - Highpower rifle. Sling is used in sitting/prone. No artificial support in the off hand. Marine Corps qualification on the KD range is performed with loop sling. Good sling/position is the difference between pizza box and Expert.

Expand your skills.

Pizza box is USMC slang for the minimum qualification, correct?

 

[remr5]

I guess I keyed in on the not squared up comment and was interested in have a conversation on a topic that I don't know a lot about ( sling portion prone) Sorry if it's an issue

 

[remr5]

I use a sling and encourage it in the seated, kneeling and standing but never gave it much thought for prone. I think that there are better slings than the 1907 such as the Ares Armor sniper sling ( I have and use). I started with the 1907 and upgraded. This is just me though.

 

[remr5]

I'm not sure how I should take that statement and to avoid a argument or dick measuring contest as hide members are great for I will say do what you think is best. Good day

 

[remr5]

Sir not having it is different than preferring and I was asking why someone would prefer a sling instead of a bipod. But again it is not more stable. I do agree with everything else you said.

 

[pmclaine]

Check out the video on Youtube of Dennis DeMille shooting his 03A3 in the rapids. Takes his time. Uses all of the 60 seconds, unlike me because I fail to recognize 60 seconds is actually a long time to get off ten shots. His loop sling rifle is dead steady and he absolutely owns the recoil of the 30-06.


Link to a few videos

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dennis+demille+shooting&qpvt=dennis+demille+shooting&FORM=VDRE

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

I'm not sure how I should take that statement and to avoid a argument or dick measuring contest as hide members are great for I will say do what you think is best. Good day

Yes, yes..............dicks are measured here quite often but as it is the Internet results are not verifiable. You'll never be able to really tell if the guy busting your balls has a bigger one than you. With that being said, there is some value to learning to engage a target prone using a sling...........give it a spin. As already mentioned, in the not far distant past a rifleman used a sling to aid in all firing positions (whenever practicable.)

 

[ChrisBCS]

Thanks everyone here. Great videos, pmclaine. Between the pointers of this thread and watching a great video of Ken Roxburgh teaching prone service rifle position, I've adjusted my sling by several holes (it was far too tight) as well as how I place the piece in my shoulder (heel of the palm) and where I place the butt of the rifle in my shoulder (as close to the neck as possible). I no longer have any strain in my neck from looking down the scope, I don't feel I'm too close to the scope any more, I have clear edge to edge sight picture and... my POA no longer shifts on trigger squeeze.

Thank you again.

 

[Erud]

Glad it worked out.

 

[ChrisBCS]

Yeah so I still suck a fat one at this. I followed my snapping in to a "T" live today. My crosshairs still dance around a 1 MOA diamond target like an alcoholic with the DT shakes. I can't seem to get a relaxed stable position and watch a clear breath cycle. Hrmmm.

 

[Dan M]

Chris

Retired Msgt. Jim Owens USMC wrote a pretty good book on the subject called Leather Sling and Shooting Positions. It is geared to shooting High Power, but it will be very useful for learning how to use the M1907 sling effectively... prone shooting is covered quite thoroughly.

Leather Sling and Shooting Positions Book

Jim's site
Jim Owens Books

 

[Erud]

Yeah so I still suck a fat one at this. I followed my snapping in to a "T" live today. My crosshairs still dance around a 1 MOA diamond target like an alcoholic with the DT shakes. I can't seem to get a relaxed stable position and watch a clear breath cycle. Hrmmm.

This is why I never shoot with a scope!

 

[pmclaine]

Yeah so I still suck a fat one at this. I followed my snapping in to a "T" live today. My crosshairs still dance around a 1 MOA diamond target like an alcoholic with the DT shakes. I can't seem to get a relaxed stable position and watch a clear breath cycle. Hrmmm.

If it was easy do you think people would spend so much time here hoping to learn that secret that will allow them to stack bullets? Woould we engage in our own personal gear race emptying our wallets hoping to stack bullets? Would we treat each reloading session as if we were polishing diamonds?

Golf doesnt appeal to me but I understand why golfers are the way they are.

Do yourself a favor and only compete/compare against YOUR last target. Ive come to the realization that the guy that shot my last target is the only shooter I have any chance of beating.

 

[ChrisBCS]

Very good points and I thank you for the sage advice.

 

[ChrisBCS]

Chris

Retired Msgt. Jim Owens USMC wrote a pretty good book on the subject called Leather Sling and Shooting Positions. It is geared to shooting High Power, but it will be very useful for learning how to use the M1907 sling effectively... prone shooting is covered quite thoroughly.

Leather Sling and Shooting Positions Book

Jim's site
Jim Owens Books

Thank you Dan M!