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So you guys wanted a way to mount your Magnetospeed with no POI shift?

Tyler Kemp

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVoVen7c20Y&feature=youtu.be

Here's what we came up with. Uses a picatinny rail as a mounting point rather than the barrel, and is surprisingly stiff thanks to a 3/8" steel rod for length adjustment. Very customizable to fit a wide range of rigs. MSRP of $150, preorders just went up and will run through the end of September for $125!

http://mkmachining.com/product/preorder-magnetospeed-v3-picatinny-rail-mount/

PM2aWUH.jpg


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TheOE800

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    That is very nice. The utility is obviously extended by the adjustability built into the mount; however, at that price point I'm more inclined to spend $25 jerry-rigging a ghetto contraption rather than nearly half what the Magnetospeed cost me to begin with.

    It looks like an elegant solution, truly. It is probably more than what I need. Not trying to shit on your thread at all; the community demanded a product and you've delivered one - thanks.
     

    spife7980

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    Whelp, my preorder is in.

    While its not exactly what I was imagining it is even better with all of the pivot adjustability built in.
     

    Kopfjager1

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    Yeah you can probably build your own for a lot cheaper, not insulting your capabilities, but the trial and error involved and the time spent getting the parts and then constructing it may not be worth the same amount, minus the sense of gratification or making your own tools.

    My question and I'm sure others want to know as well, will this be compatible with suppressors? If so I'm sold, if not, I'm probably still sold.

    Edit: Nevermind, just read the description on the website, "works with silencers, muzzle brakes, ... Longer barrels".
     
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    Mike402

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    Finally somebody came to market with a solution. Want to put a preorder in, but quick question - can you mount on a bottom mounted picatinny rail, or only a side one?
     

    Fursniper

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    Finally somebody came to market with a solution. Want to put a preorder in, but quick question - can you mount on a bottom mounted picatinny rail, or only a side one?

    To add to this question.....a bottom mounted picatinny rail on an A5 style stock and a 32" barrel, will it work??
     

    Tyler Kemp

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    It really depends on will there be a bipod also on that rail, will it interfere with your bag, etc. It's super adjustable so you can certainly mount it on the bottom and then get it parallel with your bore.

    As for silencers, etc, watch the video I posted. It shows the type of adjustment this unit can achieve.
     

    TacticalDillhole

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    I'm interested, but I'd like to see it in use. It seems to me, no matter how solid it is, with longer barrels it's gonna bounce all over making the readings less reliable. I'd like to see it in action on say a 26" AI 338 lapua or a 300 win mag and see the effects of recoil on its stability with that rod fully extended. Nice work though, it's a solution many desire.
     
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    Tyler Kemp

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    I have a Lapua Improved I'll test it out on. I have video of it being shot on various rigs. With a 308 and no brake (similar to braked 338 IMO) I mounted the rail way back so the rod was extended, sure it has a bit of wobble after recoil but most of the wobble is the bayonet itself and happens long after the bullet is gone. Readings were just as expected.
     

    TacticalDillhole

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    I have a Lapua Improved I'll test it out on. I have video of it being shot on various rigs. With a 308 and no brake (similar to braked 338 IMO) I mounted the rail way back so the rod was extended, sure it has a bit of wobble after recoil but most of the wobble is the bayonet itself and happens long after the bullet is gone. Readings were just as expected.

    Thanks Tyler. Did you see a + or - when comparing factory mounting to your device? What was the margin of error?
     

    LZhiou

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    Will there be a version or an adaptor for the MS sporter?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

     

    lennyo3034

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    Will this work on the sporter model too? Can't tell from the picture of attachment method.

    eta: beat by seconds.
     

    Tyler Kemp

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    Steel rod is about 11" but that could potentially be a longer CF rod, etc. It is standard 3/8" stock.

    As for the sporter, Ivan from Magnetospeed called me today. It sounds like it will need a different plate to attach the chrono itself but that would be a small part...$20 or so. Sounds like there are a larger amount of V3 out there so that will probably be the standard.
     

    Tyler Kemp

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    Thanks Tyler. Did you see a + or - when comparing factory mounting to your device? What was the margin of error?

    My bullpup chassis didn't offer enough room to mount the chrono normally, but Winchester said 2750fps on the box of their FMJ stuff, I averaged about 2740fps from my barrel, with only an 8fps SD over 5 shots! I have chronoed my 6.5 SAUM normally and with this new mount and averages were literally exactly the same. This exact magneto has delivered essentially identical speeds to my old shoot through chrony, and did so with this mount during testing as well.
     

    stevenc23

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    Do I get a kickback for getting the ball rolling with the DIY Magnetospeed adapter thread? ;)

    But seriously, nice work.
     

    Tyler Kemp

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    According to Magnetospeed themselves, the V2 bayonet is a bit different. They are supposed to be sending one for testing, and a different mounting plate if needed. Or maybe we can make the existing one work with more holes.

    I'm aware this won't work with really long barrels, longer barrels with a can, etc. This is something we'll be working on offering a solution for ASAP.
     

    mpk1996

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    Nice!! just what I need for some load dev on my AI.

    When will these be shipping?
     

    lennyo3034

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    Steel rod is about 11" but that could potentially be a longer CF rod, etc. It is standard 3/8" stock.

    As for the sporter, Ivan from Magnetospeed called me today. It sounds like it will need a different plate to attach the chrono itself but that would be a small part...$20 or so. Sounds like there are a larger amount of V3 out there so that will probably be the standard.

    I'm fine with this. I don't need the extra capabilities of the V3, but this mount would be nice. Is there an option for this part in the preorder? Or should I wait till one is made?
     

    samb300

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    I don't understand why there is a need for the all the degrees of freedom in the mount...seems unnecessary and will make it overly complicated to get the MS aligned. It also requires using allen keys to tighten down rather than wingnuts or other hand adjustable screws. To me, it looks like you'll need 3 hands to get the adapter tightened down with the MS aligned to the bore.

    Really, all one needs is an adjustment in and out (in relation to the centerline of the bore), and maybe an adjustment in tilt (unlikely to be needed on a tube gun or any rifle with a flat forend).

    If you have a traditional stock with one picatinny section at the front (or only a Harris stud), you're screwed.

    Why no love for guys running suppressors? This and the MPA RAT system certainly do not appear to work with even a 24" barrel and 7-9" suppressor.
     

    flyer1a

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    I don't understand why there is a need for the all the degrees of freedom in the mount...seems unnecessary and will make it overly complicated to get the MS aligned. It also requires using allen keys to tighten down rather than wingnuts or other hand adjustable screws. To me, it looks like you'll need 3 hands to get the adapter tightened down with the MS aligned to the bore.

    Really, all one needs is an adjustment in and out (in relation to the centerline of the bore), and maybe an adjustment in tilt (unlikely to be needed on a tube gun or any rifle with a flat forend).

    If you have a traditional stock with one picatinny section at the front (or only a Harris stud), you're screwed.

    Why no love for guys running suppressors? This and the MPA RAT system certainly do not appear to work with even a 24" barrel and 7-9" suppressor.

    Not all stocks have a forend that's parallel to the bore, so the extra DOF help. Also, it looks like Tyler could probably offer extended lengths as the parts mostly seem interchangeable. I think it's a nice solution.

    Also, pretty sure the new Area 419 front rail will house one of these as well as a bipod and can be mounted to about any standard stock.
     

    samb300

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    Not all stocks have a forend that's parallel to the bore, so the extra DOF help. Also, it looks like Tyler could probably offer extended lengths as the parts mostly seem interchangeable. I think it's a nice solution.

    Also, pretty sure the new Area 419 front rail will house one of these as well as a bipod and can be mounted to about any standard stock.

    Exactly, some forends aren't parallel, but that doesn't mean you need more than in-and-out and tilt for the adjustments. I don't know of a reason that you'd need a pivoting adjustment.

    And why not include the ability to run on a suppressed system, just like the MS does out of the box? I use a suppressor, so I should have to pay another $20 for a slightly longer piece of rod?
     

    Mike402

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    I will still end up getting one, but my biggest concern is the effect of the Magnetospeed unit even when not mounted to the barrel. A while back I contacted Magspeed and asked them if they had any leads on a mount such as featured in the OP. They replied that third party vendors were working on solutions, but that you also have to consider the effect of the turbulence due to the gases bouncing off of the bayonet, in addition to the effect of being strapped to the barrel. They couldn't give me any quantifiable data one way or the other.

    I remember somebody on 6mmbr.com testing impact variance with a magnetospeed, and noted that it shifted depending on which way the device was orientated on the barrel. The question is whether that was caused by the harmonics of the barrel changing due to the position of the unit, or the impact of the gas/turbulence off of the unit. Wish I had a definitive answer, but I still think you are better off not hanging it off the barrel.

    Would love to hear any input from someone that has tested this.
     

    Tyler Kemp

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    IMO the high adjustability is needed to conquer the variety of mounting positions this could be used in, and the fact that not all stocks/chassis are exactly parallel with the bore, etc.

    It is a very modular design, and as with anything improvements and optimizations can be made. Catering to as wide a range of rifles and barrel lengths as possible is really important, and certainly the forefront of further thought into this product.
     

    spife7980

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    And why not include the ability to run on a suppressed system, just like the MS does out of the box? I use a suppressor, so I should have to pay another $20 for a slightly longer piece of rod?

    Ummm because the entire purpose of this adapters existence is to get away from its "abilities" out of the box. Looks like it should work on a can just fine for me. If it wont on yours then find someone else to make you a new piece of kit for your needs or simply replace the rod with a longer of your own.
     

    secondofangle2

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    Nice work developing new kit guys. Keeps the Magnet in competition with the Radar
     

    samb300

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    Entitled much? Careful, people might mistake you for a millennial.

    Oooh, good one. I don't think a $150 kit should require the user to source his own rod to work with a suppressor, and that makes me entitled. Might at well make the kit $300 and not include any rods at all, that'll show us entitled "youths" lol.

    I could be wrong, but in the pictures, the adapter is mounted on a bullpup tubular forend, approximately 5-6" from the muzzle. Add a suppressor to this setup and it looks like it might work. But on a standard stock there is a lot more distance between the pic rail and the muzzle; even more so with a can. That's why I asked if it would work in the first place.
     

    Blackbrush

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    Why is there POI shift in SOME cases with the Magnetospeed? It's not because the bayonet is attached to the barrel. The shift is a function of bayonet proximity to the bore, velocity and bullet length. The shift occurs when the pressure wave off the tip of the bullet reflects off of the bayonet and back into the bottom (or side of the bullet path facing the bayonet) of the bullet.
     

    Mike402

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    Why is there POI shift in SOME cases with the Magnetospeed? It's not because the bayonet is attached to the barrel. The shift is a function of bayonet proximity to the bore, velocity and bullet length. The shift occurs when the pressure wave off the tip of the bullet reflects off of the bayonet and back into the bottom (or side of the bullet path facing the bayonet) of the bullet.

    Thank you for the detailed explanation. So in your opinion, do you think OCW tests & load development are still valid with a Magspeed attached?
     

    Tyler Kemp

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    Why is there POI shift in SOME cases with the Magnetospeed? It's not because the bayonet is attached to the barrel. The shift is a function of bayonet proximity to the bore, velocity and bullet length. The shift occurs when the pressure wave off the tip of the bullet reflects off of the bayonet and back into the bottom (or side of the bullet path facing the bayonet) of the bullet.

    I would like to see high speed footage of the blast bouncing off of the magnetospeed, then the bullet before the bullet is gone. Here's my thought:

    I used to shoot precision smallbore quite competitively and a tuner was a common device. By very, VERY slightly adjusting a weight on the end of the barrel you could change the harmonics and thus accuracy node of the barrel, and make a specific round shoot better, since rimfire is not easily reloadable.

    By hanging a substantial bayonet strapped onto the barrel, I would bet my bottom dollar you are impacting the barrel harmonics, and thus potentially (and in most cases I'd wager) moving the point of impact.

    Perhaps gas does bounce off the bayonet and push on the bullet...but that's certainly not the only reason. Or else the POI change would be almost the same with every barrel.
     

    Sheldon N

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    Why is there POI shift in SOME cases with the Magnetospeed? It's not because the bayonet is attached to the barrel. The shift is a function of bayonet proximity to the bore, velocity and bullet length. The shift occurs when the pressure wave off the tip of the bullet reflects off of the bayonet and back into the bottom (or side of the bullet path facing the bayonet) of the bullet.

    My experience is the exact opposite. I've got a Magnetospeed and when strapped to the barrel it creates a clear 0.4 mil shift in POI that's repeatable. I built a free floating adapter that places the bayonet in exactly the same position relative to bullet path as when it is strapped to the barrel, only difference is that the barrel is free floating. The POI shift goes completely away and the groups behave exactly the same with and without the chrono present, I've done multiple 5 shot groups back to back to back.

    The reason the Magnetospeed moves POI is because it is weight on the end of the barrel, affecting harmonics and barrel movement. Any weight on the barrel would do it. That's how tuners in benchrest shooting work.
     

    MACHTECH

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    ^^^^^^ This is exactly what I have observed since building my own free floating mount.

    Todd
     

    flyer1a

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    Does anyone have evidence that the blast bounces off of things and deflects a bullet? Saw an argument like this regarding swept-port muzzle brakes blowing blast back into the projectile, I find it real hard to believe.
     

    TheOE800

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    Does anyone have evidence that the blast bounces off of things and deflects a bullet? Saw an argument like this regarding swept-port muzzle brakes blowing blast back into the projectile, I find it real hard to believe.

    Last time I saw analysis of this, the bullet made it out faster than the gas could blast back. Or so I recall.
     

    Blackbrush

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    Thank you for the detailed explanation. So in your opinion, do you think OCW tests & load development are still valid with a Magspeed attached?

    I think it depends on the firearm. If you can compare the same load in repeated tests with and without and show no difference in avg group size, then testing is likely valid.
     

    Blackbrush

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    I would like to see high speed footage of the blast bouncing off of the magnetospeed, then the bullet before the bullet is gone. Here's my thought:

    I used to shoot precision smallbore quite competitively and a tuner was a common device. By very, VERY slightly adjusting a weight on the end of the barrel you could change the harmonics and thus accuracy node of the barrel, and make a specific round shoot better, since rimfire is not easily reloadable.

    By hanging a substantial bayonet strapped onto the barrel, I would bet my bottom dollar you are impacting the barrel harmonics, and thus potentially (and in most cases I'd wager) moving the point of impact.

    Perhaps gas does bounce off the bayonet and push on the bullet...but that's certainly not the only reason. Or else the POI change would be almost the same with every barrel.


    I don't think you have to see that although it would be interesting. Looking at currently available high speed images and using a bit of high school geometry will give you a fair idea of what
    can happen.

    Accuracy and harmonics are definitely a concern and my first concern and a very valid argument for your device. This effect relates to accuracy only.

    POI change is variable. A fast short bullet with a big gap to the bayonet will not show POI shift. A slower long bullet with a modest gap will show POI change. Take a combination that
    you already have that demonstrates measurable POI shift and place the bayonet at 3, 9 or 12 o'clock instead of 6. You will see that POI always moves away from/opposite the bayonet
    position.
     

    Blackbrush

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    Does anyone have evidence that the blast bounces off of things and deflects a bullet? Saw an argument like this regarding swept-port muzzle brakes blowing blast back into the projectile, I find it real hard to believe.

    As long as the reflections are circumferential and concentric, the effect is nullified. This is why precise barrel threading and brake boring is important.
     

    Sheldon N

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    POI change is variable. A fast short bullet with a big gap to the bayonet will not show POI shift. A slower long bullet with a modest gap will show POI change. Take a combination that
    you already have that demonstrates measurable POI shift and place the bayonet at 3, 9 or 12 o'clock instead of 6. You will see that POI always moves away from/opposite the bayonet
    position.

    This relates to physical position of the off center weight on the barrel, not the orientation/proximity of the bayonet.

    Again, I've got both right here and have tested it back to back. Attached to barrel = big POI shift. Not attached to barrel but with the bayonet in the same position and proximity to bullet path = no POI shift.